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[goodcow]

http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/04/24/0414236.shtml?tid=109&tid=3

Jobs Claims Microsoft Is Shamelessly Copying
Microsoft
Apple
Posted by Zonk on Sunday April 24, @11:33AM
from the nah-nah dept.
Nicholas Roussos writes "Steve Jobs was outspoken at a recent annual shareholder meeting. He claimed 'They are shamelessly copying us', referring to Microsoft. Of course, Microsoft has done its share of pointing fingers as well." From the article: "Most telling, Jobs said is that Tiger, the next version of Mac OS X, will go on sale later this month, while Longhorn is still more than a year away."

http://news.com.com/2061-10794_3-5680232.html

April 21, 2005, 2:52 PM PDT
Apple's Jobs swipes at Longhorn

As an avid softball player, I know that when you get a nice flat pitch, you swing for the fences.

Apple Computer CEO Steve Jobs clearly knows that too. He didn't miss a beat when a shareholder asked him if he had any thoughts on Longhorn, the next version of Windows.

"They are shamelessly copying us," he said during Thursday's annual meeting.

Most telling, Jobs said is that Tiger, the next version of Mac OS X, will go on sale later this month, while Longhorn is still more than a year away.

"They can't even copy fast," he said.

Some of Apple's advances can be protected by patents, he said, but not all.

"Innovation is the only way to win," he said. "You just have to stay ahead of people."

There has been a fair amount of finger-pointing of late, with Windows chief Jim Allchin recently suggesting it was Apple doing the copying.

Posted by Ina Fried

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=147156&cid=12329107

From Who's Copying Who article [google.com]:

# Search: Tiger will feature a built-in local search technology called "Spotlight" (technology built upon the search engines that Apple currently uses to search iTunes and e-mail). Microsoft has said it plans to offer a similar local-machine search engine for Longhorn that will be based on the company's Windows File System (WinFS) technology.

# Scripting:Tiger will include a front-end scripting environment known as "Automator." Longhorn will include a new scripting shell (currently in beta test) known as "Monad." [microsoft.com]

# Built-in RSS support: Tiger will embed an RSS aggregator [eweek.com] into the Safari browser. Longhorn will include an embedded RSS feature in the user interface.

# Info-Display Panel: Tiger will have an information-display capability called "Dashboard." Longhorn will have an information-display panel called "Sideshow," to which users can "pin" collections of items of interest.

# Integrated Instant Messaging/Video Chat: Tiger will feature a souped-up version of iChat. Microsoft will embed Windows Messenger (a sister to MSN Messenger), which also will likely feature video-chat.

# 64-Bit Support: Tiger will include extended 64-bit capabilities. Longhorn allegedly will be optimized for 64-bit systems. [microsoft-watch.com]

As many an Apple advocate has pointed out, Tiger is set to debut at least a year before Longhorn. That's a pretty significant head start, especially for folks who have no corporate edicts, application constraints or other limitations on which hardware/software platform they choose.

 

[galeninjapan]

Has MS realized that no one uses MS messenger, except foreigners?

 

[calder]

I'm all for laughing at MS and it's lame inability to come up with new ideas, but most of those "shamelessly copied" innovations border on totally fucking obvious. RSS built into the browser? Integrated IM with enhanced features? If someone made a thread a year ago asking GAF what you wanted and expected to see in a future OS all that shit would have been high on the 'no-duh' list.

 

[border]

A Search Feature, RSS, instant messenger and 64-bit support? Wow, those dirty dirty copycats! I hear that MS is also trying to copy them by including mouse and web camera support....what bastards!

Seriously, whine about copycats when you've made some sort of major revolution, not a bunch of tiny tweaks.

 

[DarienA]

The title should have been:

"Jobs claims the obvious... MS doesn't come up with any ideas of its own ever."

 

[Ghost]

What about the idea to steal other peoples ideas?

 

[AB 101]

Well, while I own a Mac, I will say Apple has certainy copied a few things from MS as well.

The big copy job was years ago.

Yes, Apple did take ideas from Xerox PARC but they did get the tech into something half way affordable. It took MS until 1995 to get to the same level.

 

[sc0la]

No one should be mad if they copy. People should be mad that they haven't copied expose yet.

Ever since I started using that on my iBook taskbar makes my brain hurt x_x


edti: does longhorn have anything in the works like that?
edit2: and to be honest they both could do with some stealing of the best features to make their own os better.

 

[The Faceless Master]

What about the idea to steal other peoples ideas?

:lol :lol :lol

 

[shantyman]

A Search Feature, RSS, instant messenger and 64-bit support? Wow, those dirty dirty copycats! I hear that MS is also trying to copy them by including mouse and web camera support....what bastards!

Seriously, whine about copycats when you've made some sort of major revolution, not a bunch of tiny tweaks.

Some of these (and others you listed) are not tiny tweaks.

 

[Macam]

This is something I take as partly true and partly classic Jobs selling Tiger to the masses. Apple themselves tends to eat up existing ideas, clean them up, and present them as their own with their own style. Microsoft has been facing a tumultuous last few years, with Linux expanding its presence in the business markets, Apple expanding itself in the consumer space, and an endless series of security threats that have rattled Microsoft's already tainted corporate image. That comes on top of countless Longhorn delays and a rollback on crucial features for the new OS. Frankly, Microsoft needs to be copying if they want to remain competitive on any level. The things they need to be copying the most however, aren't simple features; rather they need to be copying things like OS X's stability, security, and ease of use, which is far easier said than done given their marketshare and technical base, but it'll go a long ways to easing security concerns and partly rivaling OS X's appeal alongside putting itself ahead of Linux in some cases.

 

[fugimax]

Spoitlight is certainly *not* a tweak. I'm using Tiger now and Spotlight completely replaces having to ever open *any* folder. It gets rid of the painful hierarchical system of folders. I could keep every single file I have in the same folder and find it easily with Spotlight. It's a totally new way to interact with your files, applications, etc. that is just plain good.

 

[goodcow]

The things they need to be copying the most however, aren't simple features; rather they need to be copying things like OS X's stability, security, and ease of use,

XP *IS* as stable, if not moreso than OSX, and ease of use if a matter of opinion. I find XP very easy to use, mainly because I grew up on Windows. I find OSX on the other hand rather abstract and annoying, particularly in the way is groups programs together, and if I close a window the program is still running in the background unless I hit apple + Q.

 

[TheDuce22]

I have never had XP crash on me. You cant really improve on perfection.

 

[SteveMeister]

I have never had XP crash on me. You cant really improve on perfection.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

The day ANY OS even comes CLOSE to "perfection" is not within any of our lifetimes

 

[fugimax]

XP *IS* as stable, if not moreso than OSX, and ease of use if a matter of opinion.

hahah...no. Sorry, it's just not true.

That being said, it's not entirely Microsoft's fault. Usually when Windows blue screens it is because of a third-party driver doing something stupid.

I've had OS X crash on me once in 3 years. And that was only because I had just upgraded and used a piece of software that hadn't yet been updated for the new version and caused a kernel panic.

 

[God's Hand]

Just proves how pathetic OS competition is. Regardless, MS originally announced the quick index-searching after the Windows 95 launch. I forgot the codename, but they did talk about it back then.

 

[maharg]

Spoitlight is certainly *not* a tweak. I'm using Tiger now and Spotlight completely replaces having to ever open *any* folder. It gets rid of the painful hierarchical system of folders. I could keep every single file I have in the same folder and find it easily with Spotlight. It's a totally new way to interact with your files, applications, etc. that is just plain good.

Meanwhile Microsoft has been talking about something like this for years, never mind ReiserFS' whitepapers on similar searchable filesystems that are more than half a decade old at this point.

These are not new ideas, even if they have been slow to market. Microsoft's big problem is getting its R&D stuff, which really does come up with some insanely clever things (like Monad, which has been downloadable as an individual thing for over a year), into real products. They're no more copying Apple than any of the other companies that have come up with similar ideas over the years. Really they're both copying from old R&D, mostly.

It's also worth noting that Windows can't really efficiently do something like Expose without a fairly significant overhaul of the graphic engine. Apple has the advantage of a recent rewrite while MS is still working on a codebase that hasn't seen a huge revision in the graphics department since the late 90s.

 

[shantyman]

XP *IS* as stable, if not moreso than OSX, and ease of use if a matter of opinion. I find XP very easy to use, mainly because I grew up on Windows. I find OSX on the other hand rather abstract and annoying, particularly in the way is groups programs together, and if I close a window the program is still running in the background unless I hit apple + Q.

I would not say XP is more stable than OS X, but they are certainly equal. I am always puzzled by Mac users who claim it crashes and is not stable. That has certainly not been my experience.

 

[MrAngryFace]

I use XP to do everything I want. Case closed.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Goodcow has APPLE VS. MICROSOFT on the brain how many threads has it been now?
The same trolls and same fanboys show up to do battle.

Apple fucked me with the last upgrade 10.3.9
I have not seen a crash screen for 3 years and after that update a few days later I seen one, I had another today its just not normal to Apple fans, so we are very sensitive to crashes.

You windows nuts are used to it teach me how to cope.

I think Apple is just trying to get me to order my copy of TIGER

 

[goodcow]

I think Apple is just trying to get me to order my copy of TIGER

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Goodcow that means you agree, I really think they fuck fans on purpose seriously to move more Tiger. You agree rignt? They keep this up and dude I'm getting a Dell.

OSX crashes in 7 languages just so we understand what just happened
Its just not natural

 

[kitchenmotors]

XP *IS* as stable, if not moreso than OSX, and ease of use if a matter of opinion. I find XP very easy to use, mainly because I grew up on Windows. I find OSX on the other hand rather abstract and annoying, particularly in the way is groups programs together, and if I close a window the program is still running in the background unless I hit apple + Q.

As a former XP user, I find Windows a fucking mess. OS X is so clean and streamlined, programs work together in sync.

Oh, and another thing that's nice about OS X is no spyware, auto installing programs and hardly any pop ups. Tell me, how many spyware programs do you have on your windows computer? How many times a day do you have to use them? :lol

I was working on a stop motion animation project this morning. I imported my files via iPhoto, went straight to iMovie HD and then finished the project with iDVD. You know how many problems I had? None. Try doing that in XP with ease.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

IF YOU ARE POSTING IN THIS THREAD

It means your OS working! Like MS says "IT JUST WORKS"

now can we all just stfu...

Did anyone notice that MS stole the Apple G5 holes to vent the Xbox 360?

:runs:

 

[DJ Sl4m]

Moral of the story...... never trust a grown man who plays softball.

 

[border]

Tell me, how many spyware programs do you have on your windows computer? How many times a day do you have to use them? :lol

Zero. Zero.

Spyware comes with rogue 3rd party applications you install. It has fuck-all to do with the OS.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

I want to download Monad, but I'm having trouble finding the link. Can someone help out please, thanks.

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

Zero. Zero.

Spyware comes with rogue 3rd party applications you install. It has fuck-all to do with the OS.

IE is a rogue 3rd party program?

I use Firefox, and am very careful in what I download and run. I've never had a virus, but Spybot/Ad-Aware/XoftSpy always finds stuff. It's definitely a security issue with the OS.

I don't have to worry about a virus or spyware on my Powerbook. It's nice. This thing has changed me into a Mac user for life. Can't wait to ditch my pc for a PowerMac.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Zero. Zero.

Spyware comes with rogue 3rd party applications you install. It has fuck-all to do with the OS.

Sorry, should have been more clear. Spyware cleaning programs. And it has everything to do with the OS and security holes.

 

[teiresias]

Speaking of copying slowly, does anyone have a link to that article about Apple still beta-testing their two button mouse? :lol :lol

 

[goodcow]

Goodcow that means you agree, I really think they fuck fans on purpose seriously to move more Tiger. You agree rignt? They keep this up and dude I'm getting a Dell.

OSX crashes in 7 languages just so we understand what just happened
Its just not natural

I do think they force you to upgrade for dumb shit. For example, we wanted the new version of Safari at work to test our website against it, but couldn't download it because we needed the next OSX version. Not a point release, the next full fledged version. For a fucking web browser. Bullshit.

Oh, and another thing that's nice about OS X is no spyware, auto installing programs and hardly any pop ups. Tell me, how many spyware programs do you have on your windows computer? How many times a day do you have to use them? :lol

Um... how about zero? I run a spyware check about once a month just to make sure, but it always turns up zero results because I'm not a fucktard who clicks yes to install things. Numerous Slashdot articles have mentioned how spyware authors are looking more towards targeting OSX as its base grows, and it only makes sense... with more users = more chance for money by installing exploits. If OSX had 700+ million users worldwide you can be damn sure the various nasty people out there would find all its holes.

I was working on a stop motion animation project this morning. I imported my files via iPhoto, went straight to iMovie HD and then finished the project with iDVD. You know how many problems I had? None. Try doing that in XP with ease.

Gee, maybe it's because all the software, including the OS, is made by Apple?

Compartaively, I can go to Photoshop, then to Premiere Pro, and then to Encore, and do the same shit you did.

With ease.

Speaking of copying slowly, does anyone have a link to that article about Apple still beta-testing their two button mouse? :lol :lol

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=39735&highlight=freezes

 

[pxleyes]

As I have always said, Apple doesn't need viruses, 3rd party programs, or anything of the like to make its OS crash. Final Cut will crash randomly on me ALL THE TIME. 1st party program crashing...hmmm....

 

[Hitokage]

Um... how about zero? I run a spyware check about once a month just to make sure, but it always turns up zero results because I'm not a fucktard who clicks yes to install things.

Maybe you forgot GAF in the vb2 days, but with IE you weren't even asked. You load the page, it's installed.

Numerous Slashdot articles have mentioned how spyware authors are looking more towards targeting OSX as its base grows, and it only makes sense... with more users = more chance for money by installing exploits. If OSX had 700+ million users worldwide you can be damn sure the various nasty people out there would find all its holes.

Slashdot is little more than a geek tabloid. Besides, let's not get into thinking that the only thing that ever differs any two OS or programs is the size of the userbase.

 

[goodcow]

Maybe you forgot GAF in the vb2 days, but with IE you weren't even asked. You load the page, it's installed.

I was here during the vb2 days, I used IE, and for whatever reason, nothing ever happened to my system.

Either I rock or ... well, lets face it, I rock anyway.

 

[maharg]

I want to download Monad, but I'm having trouble finding the link. Can someone help out please, thanks.

http://www.tech-recipes.com/windows_monad_msh_tips629.html

I had another today its just not normal to Apple fans, so we are very sensitive to crashes.

As a Windows NT user since about 1996, I can't really help you there. However, if it's not normal to you as an Apple fan, you're a very new one. OS9 and below crashed like it was going out of style. I love it when mac users say Windows caught up to MacOS in 1995 and then list not crashing as a significant point to MacOS.

<-- see icon.

 

[goodcow]

As a Windows NT user since about 1996, I can't really help you there. However, if it's not normal to you as an Apple fan, you're a very new one. OS9 and below crashed like it was going out of style.

<-- see icon.

I remember my friend would go into OS7 or OS8 with some hex editing program and completely customized the OS, and eventually broke it entirely. We would also go into games like the tank shooting game, I think it was called Dome Wars, and changed all the art and sounds. And we made this horrible RPG in Drawmaze. :lol

 

[AB 101]

XP *IS* as stable, if not moreso than OSX

:/

 

[Burger]

I do think they force you to upgrade for dumb shit. For example, we wanted the new version of Safari at work to test our website against it, but couldn't download it because we needed the next OSX version. Not a point release, the next full fledged version. For a fucking web browser. Bullshit.

Can you use IE6 SP1 in windows 95 ?

Um... how about zero? I run a spyware check about once a month just to make sure, but it always turns up zero results because I'm not a fucktard who clicks yes to install things. Numerous Slashdot articles have mentioned how spyware authors are looking more towards targeting OSX as its base grows, and it only makes sense... with more users = more chance for money by installing exploits. If OSX had 700+ million users worldwide you can be damn sure the various nasty people out there would find all its holes.

Sure, but wouldn't it be nice not ever having to worry about it ?

Gee, maybe it's because all the software, including the OS, is made by Apple?

Here is a test. Install Windows XP on a clean PC. Now try and do half of what kitchenmotors did.

Compartaively, I can go to Photoshop, then to Premiere Pro, and then to Encore, and do the same shit you did.

How much, on top of Windows XP, did all that software cost ? Or did you just pirate it ?

 

[goodcow]

Can you use IE6 SP1 in windows 95 ?

Grasping at straws aren't we? There's a rather significant difference in release dates between Win95 and IE6 SP1, and OS 10.2 and whatever version of Safari I wanted.

Sure, but wouldn't it be nice not ever having to worry about it ?

With that mantra, why not never worry about your house being burglarized. It'll just make it all that much easier for thieves when you have your guard down.

Here is a test. Install Windows XP on a clean PC. Now try and do half of what kitchenmotors did.

How much more did that Mac cost? Oh, right, enough to cover the cost of PC software to do the same, only you're not saddled with it.

How much, on top of Windows XP, did all that software cost ? Or did you just pirate it ?

The Adobe options are the "Pro" options.

Adobe Video Collection Pro 2.5: $1499
Final Cut Studio: $1299 (not including things like a professional photo editor)

If you want "lite" versions like iLife, you can get them for far, far cheaper.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

Hey look! 400gb of storage for your mac mini!
http://www.micronet.com/General/minimate.asp

 

[Burger]

blah blah

What I'm saying is that all the software that kitchenmotors needed came with his operating system. That is some SMART FUCKING SHIT right there from apple.

A clean install of XP cannot even play a DVD.

 

[Dilbert]

... well, lets face it, I rock anyway.

AMAZON!

 

[gohepcat]

hahah...no. Sorry, it's just not true.

That being said, it's not entirely Microsoft's fault. Usually when Windows blue screens it is because of a third-party driver doing something stupid.

I've had OS X crash on me once in 3 years. And that was only because I had just upgraded and used a piece of software that hadn't yet been updated for the new version and caused a kernel panic.

I havn't had XP crash on me EVER in 3 years.

 

[kitchenmotors]

How much more did that Mac cost? Oh, right, enough to cover the cost of PC software to do the same, only you're not saddled with it.

Actually, I paid less for my Mac than I did for my PC and the Mac does things twice as well as the PC.

BTW, I'd rather be saddled with Apple software that actually works in sync than 3rd party shit that's impossible to get rid of on a PC.

 

[goodcow]

Actually, I paid less for my Mac than I did for my PC and the Mac does things twice as well as the PC.

BTW, I'd rather be saddled with Apple software that actually works in sync than 3rd party shit that's impossible to get rid of on a PC.

You mean you got the Mac Mini?

 

[Teknopathetic]

You know, there was a time when I'd argue the usability of a Mac vs. that of an XP machine. Those days are long gone. The truth happens to be that a Mac (I won't even mention the Mac Mini because it's a complete pile) costs multiple times that of a PC but with much less power. OSX has its gaudy looks that draws the artsy fartsy crowd, but is a neutered *nix for much much more than the price of "free."

 

[kitchenmotors]

You mean you got the Mac Mini?

Yes, switched over from Dell PC (which I upgraded throughout the years). Bought the higher end version and upgraded the ram in the mini.

 

[kitchenmotors]

(I won't even mention the Mac Mini because it's a complete pile)

Oh really? I've had mine since it's release and I haven't had one problem with it. It's not a gaming machine, but as a computer it's perfect. I can do all my design, music and video work without any problems, especially if I need to go back and forth between programs.

The mini may be cheap price wise, and that lends itself for some cheap shots, but quality wise it's anything but cheap.

 

[Pochacco]

Lately, I've been considering buying a 12-inch Powerbook.
Macs seems really great.
Windows is starting to get really, really stale for me.
I hope Longhorn fixes this, but I doubt it - MS is too scared (and incapable) of getting the install-base to accept something new.