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[sonycowboy]

This wasn't the case already with Saturn and PS2? Developers that worked on those platforms are going to have an advantage going into this gen, mostly because they've already had to look at how they can use hardware effectively on those platforms.

I believe he was being facetious.

 

[dark10x]

Do you have any idea how ridiculous is the big deal that people are making out of Carmack's comments?

Did you read Jaffe's comments? He said what I posted and I didn't see anyone rip on him. Now, I don't care about what he says unless it's game related, because he obviously has an allegiance to Sony and it's fine. I usually stay out of these threads because people just go overboard with their preferences, but step back and take a look at what Carmack said, his perspective, and how ridiculous it is that people are bitching over it.

I have read Jaffe's comments, and I recall people slamming him and saying that he didn't "know shit" in comparison to an actual programmer like JC. Once he actually showed up and validated his viewpoint rationally, people backed off.

Hmm. Who to believe--the guy that has made a career making games for sony, or the guy who is considered one of the greatest PC devs in the world who, in the past, has vocally had NO love lost for microsoft whatsoever. Think I'll go with Carmack. :lol

I'll go with the guy who doesn't make first party games, and created an entire genre, and engines.

What is a David Jaf?

The bungie dude said there was barely any difference.


I guess ppl who program for one platform only will look at everything with rose tinted glasses from their perspective.


only time will tell.

Jaff is a first party developer for Sony. Why in Gods good name would he say the competition is compairable? And considering that fact he has no developing experience on 360 who is he to call a statement like that? David is gonna support his camp 100%. Lord knows they sign his check. For the record I've also read past interviews with that tool where he says Xbox graphical tech is entirely possible on PS2. Hes full of crap. Also Gears of War is running SINGLE CORE. Wait till they start using the other 2.

Hmm, let's see-

Programming legend who has no vested interest in either platform saying they're comparable in terms of ability

vs.

Non-programming designer who's worked for Sony almost his entire career making what amounts to a gamefaqs level troll on the competition.

HMMMMMMMMM.

Who to believe?

Carmack was actually working on the Quake engine on the Atari Jaguar at some point, likely worked on the Wolfenstein port to the Atari Lynx, and has been working on cell phone coding as of late. This guy seems to have no fear of platforms that aren't like PCs. It's funny to see the Sonybots bash Carmack as some kind of savant who can only work effectively on PCs.

I believe in Carmack more than David Jaffe in this issue first Carmack isn't on Sony's payroll, second he knows a lot about 3d-tecnology.

Carmack is more believable, simply because he isn't in the pocket of Sony or MS. He will make games for both consoles, but at this time finds 360 a little more dev friendly. I don't really think that many if any of the xbots are even trying to say that 360 has more power than PS3. To say that PS3 is magnitudes higher in power at this point in the game is just stupid when we haven't seen any gameplay shots that would support that claim, that won't however stop the Sony fanboys from claiming otherwise.

you all know my take on Jaffe. I don't really put a lot of trust into a guy who:
Isn’t a programmer
Never worked on the competitors console
Has his checks signed by Sony

Again, there will probably some suffering from some real emotional trauma when both consoles are out and the differences graphically are negligible.

Sony has you caught up in the hype. They always do it and people still fall for it. Unbelievable.

Cell = The New Emotion Engine.

I guess since people never learn, history will repeat itself all over again.

What surprises me is that no one in this thread has remembered that Jaffe's paycheque is signed by Sony, given that he works for SCE Santa Monica or whereever. So of course he'll say these things.

The ensuing argument over specs and shit is just you fishies falling hook, line and sinker for the arms race of tech details that MS and Sony want you to get drawn in by.

I could go on and on...

That last one is my favorite, as damn near every post was about Jaffe working for Sony.

Most of the thread is about MGS2, though.

 

[IJoel]

I have read Jaffe's comments, and I recall people slamming him and saying that he didn't "know shit" in comparison to an actual programmer like JC. Once he actually showed up and validated his viewpoint rationally, people backed off.

I could go on and on...

That last one is my favorite, as damn near every post was about Jaffe working for Sony.

Most of the thread is about MGS2, though.

Now read who made those comments/responses and who are making the suspect comments here.

Interesting huh?

 

[J2 Cool]

Most of the thread is about MGS2, though.

Hmm, good game. Underrated imo. Real quality and daring.

 

[Zer0]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Is why Carmack is so great. It's not that his engines are years and years ahead of the industry, .

yeah,thats why unreal engine is more licenced,o farcry engine is superior ( and less pc demanding) to the doom3 engine,carmack is a excellent programer,no doubt,but there is a LOT of excellent programers there,just carmack get the praise

 

[TheInkyVoid]

This wasn't the case already with Saturn and PS2? Developers that worked on those platforms are going to have an advantage going into this gen, mostly because they've already had to look at how they can use hardware effectively on those platforms.

It is tough to respond to that without sounding like I am saying that pc developers suck.

I have pc developer friends who utterly despise Sony and the PS2/3. Their entire life has focused on x86 machines running windows and directx. Anything outside of that narrow range of experience is stupid, or crazy, or not normal.

They are very vocal and give a very distorted view of console development. The engineers who matter in console development lives aren't centered around the x86 pc.

 

[HokieJoe]

Bullshit.

That's not the type of comment that JC would make, however...

Exactly. Carmack doesn’t sound like a developer in fanboi's cloths.

I’m all for being enthusiastic about the console that butters your bread. However, the fanboi crap is getting pretty thick of late. That’s just natural I suppose, but, annoying nonetheless.

I guess what really gets me are the people that trash talk Carmack without any real reason. There’s a difference between the measured criticism of someone like Carmack; and outright stupidity I see from some people in this thread.

 

[PhatSaqs]

"There's another semi-positive X360 thread boyz."

 

[Mr_Furious]

Probably gets a new Alienware PC every other month.

Do you think he actually pays for hardware? He gets the latest and greatest hardware from major companies way before it ever hits the market.

 

[jett]

I would like to hear John's reaction to the MGS4 trailer.

Sure PCs will be more powerfull, but will we actually get any games on the PC that tap any of this power?

I would also like to see sales data for high end graphics cards, how many people actually have a PC right now that is more powerfull than an xbox?

My current PC stomps all over current gen consoles... yet the only benifit I get is high res textures and AA. Leon in RE4 is made up of more polys than 10 characters in a PC FPS.

I love FPS on my PC, but its mostly for the mod community and KB/mouse. I realize that they need to make the game playable on a wide range of systems, but why brag that the PC is the most powerfull when you have to cripple all your games? I'm sure your PC will be more powerfull than next gen consoles, but for the majority of people that is simply not the case, and as a result the rest of us uber-nerds with $500 graphics cards suffer.

"oh look I'm runnning this game a 300fps with 200x AA, but all the characters still have block hands so joe dirt can run it on his windows 95 box! yay!"

I think this post was spot-on. BTW, I would like to know Carmack's opinion on MGS4 too, hehehe.

 

[dark10x]

Now read who made those comments/responses and who are making the suspect comments here.

Interesting huh?

higher end PC is about $3000, maybe 4k....fuk u john!!!!

Not PS3 related. The FIRST CONSOLE mention was...

Carmack: "Xbox 360 is better than PS3"

pretty much sums it up

There is some negative stuff, but it's hardly any different...

Carmack on PS3:

GPU: nVidia PC graphics accelerator..... Yeah!!
Memory: Like on PC.......Double yeah!!
CPU: Drastically different from PC.......... BAD BAD PS3!!!

I would like to hear John's reaction to the MGS4 trailer.

Sure PCs will be more powerfull, but will we actually get any games on the PC that tap any of this power?

I would also like to see sales data for high end graphics cards, how many people actually have a PC right now that is more powerfull than an xbox?

My current PC stomps all over current gen consoles... yet the only benifit I get is high res textures and AA. Leon in RE4 is made up of more polys than 10 characters in a PC FPS.

I love FPS on my PC, but its mostly for the mod community and KB/mouse. I realize that they need to make the game playable on a wide range of systems, but why brag that the PC is the most powerfull when you have to cripple all your games? I'm sure your PC will be more powerfull than next gen consoles, but for the majority of people that is simply not the case, and as a result the rest of us uber-nerds with $500 graphics cards suffer.

"oh look I'm runnning this game a 300fps with 200x AA, but all the characters still have block hands so joe dirt can run it on his windows 95 box! yay!"

Yeah, that statement was SOOOO out of control.

So he likes 360 better because its more like a PC dev environment.

...

It's not surprising to hear PC guys like Newell and Carmack are not so hot on PS3. strong PS2 developers will be the ones who stand out in the beginning, because they are already familiar with the EE + VU0/VU1 set-up (like Kojima). PC devs are going to have a harder time by default.

...I could go on, but you can go re-read it, if you want.

Point is, I just looked over the thread and it is NOWHERE NEAR as negative as people are making it sound. Most of it was related to the fact that people though Doom 3 sucked and that JC is a PC guy and doesn't care for non-PC architecture. Very few people actually dismissed him, unlike Jaffe, where everyone was just like "Oh, he's on Sony's dollar...gee, that's trustworthy :ROLLEYES:". You claimed that the Jaffe thread was devoid of Jaffe bashing...and that this thread was nothing more than PS3 fanatics bashing X360. I don't know where you got that idea, but you were way off base.

As I said, it all depends on perspective and, in all honestly, there really isn't a whole lot of "Pro-PS3, anti-360" in this thread.

 

[erikevrhrd]

Good read. Who do we think will do Doom 4?

 

[gofreak]

Good read. Who do we think will do Doom 4?

Good Q. iD's next game is an all new IP, on a new engine. They could very easily farm a new Doom out to another company, using that engine..or perhaps they'll wait for the engine after that and build it themselves.

I'm far more looking forward to the new game though. Should be very interesting..

 

[Mallrat83]

Good read. Who do we think will do Doom 4?

Retro. It'll be called Doom 4D.

 

[Prine]

"There's another semi-positive X360 thread boyz."

I know, i dont remember Sony fans being so rabid. Its like my current stand with Nintendo. I love them but hate their fans, which mean i stop supporting Nintendo unless they bring out something special (Zelda and MArio games). Now with Sony, and their thread wrecking fans, im begining to hate Sony as a corp (i love my PS2 and im a huge supporter of PSP, Konami and Kojima)

Seriously, Sony fans used to be well grounded, unphased and intelligent, now i see posters i respect becoming more and more like me (which is bad!)

 

[dark10x]

I know, i dont remember Sony fans being so rabid. Its like my current stand with Nintendo. I love them but hate their fans, which mean i stop supporting Nintendo unless they bring out something special (Zelda and MArio games). Now with Sony, and their thread wrecking fans, im begining to hate Sony as a corp (i love my PS2 and im a huge supporter of PSP, Konami and Kojima)

Seriously, Sony fans used to be well grounded, unphased and intelligent, now i see posters i respect becoming more and more like me (which is bad!)

Where, exactly, are you seeing this? Who are you speaking of?

 

[Hajaz]

why is 360 more like a pc though?
it doesnt have a pc cpu, and its gpu is different from current pc gpu's.

 

[urk]

why is 360 more like a pc though?
it doesnt have a pc cpu, and its gpu is different from current pc gpu's.

Not the systems themselves, but the tools used to dev the games.

 

[gofreak]

why is 360 more like a pc though?
it doesnt have a pc cpu, and its gpu is different from current pc gpu's.

Everything's relative. Carmack's point of contention is the CPUs, and Cell is evidently more different from a PC CPU than X360's Xenon, even though Xenon is itself different from PCs too. Crytek said very similar things recently. They thought PS3 and X360 would be reasonably alike, but on getting PS3 kits, they realised that PS3 was, according to them, even more different from X360 than X360 was from PCs.

 

[bitwise]

"There's another semi-positive X360 thread boyz."

heh.. its getting now that if you see this avatar, you immediately know to just skip over the post entirely.

 

[sonycowboy]

I know, i dont remember Sony fans being so rabid. Its like my current stand with Nintendo. I love them but hate their fans, which mean i stop supporting Nintendo unless they bring out something special (Zelda and MArio games). Now with Sony, and their thread wrecking fans, im begining to hate Sony as a corp (i love my PS2 and im a huge supporter of PSP, Konami and Kojima)

Seriously, Sony fans used to be well grounded, unphased and intelligent, now i see posters i respect becoming more and more like me (which is bad!)

I'm looking over this thread and I'm seeing blame on BOTH sides and it's only a handful of folks who are stirring the pot. And the amount of whining in this thread is just about bad as the amount of Carmack damage control.

The real problem with this thread, IMO, has been the inane posts back and forth where people are complaining about each other (like what I'm doing right here), not the comments about the article, for the most part.

The only reason I'm posting (and I won't be coming back into this thread as it seems worse than worthless at this point) is because we can rely on the mods to clean up the board or the long time, decent posters can stop acting like goddamn babies and arguing at each other. It's fine to say the 360 or PS3 don't interest you, because that's a perfectly reasonable comment to make (IMO, but don't start crying about unfairness or unreasonableness and labeling everybody because of a few folks who don't like what they see.

 

[Mihail]

Seriously, Sony fans used to be well grounded, unphased and intelligent, now i see posters i respect becoming more and more like me (which is bad!)

If it makes you feel any better, I've never found this to be true.

 

[JMPovoa]

Isn't the Cell processor less of a multi core CPU than Xbox360's though? Even if it doesn't rely on the SPEs, isn't it faster than a single core Xbox360 CPU? Can you really call the SPEs core CPUs? (as they're not for general purpose programming?) I'm asking this out of ignorance, i'm no tech geek.

 

[gofreak]

Isn't the Cell processor less of a multi core CPU than Xbox360's though?

It depends on your definition of "core". There are more execution units and resources to juggle on Cell, if you prefer to put it that way.

Even if it doesn't rely on the SPEs, isn't it faster than a single core Xbox360 CPU?

Take out the SPUs, and Cell's PPE is about the same as one X360 core. At least they are thought to be very similar.

Can you really call the SPEs core CPUs?

Well, a core and a CPU aren't the same thing for starters. But again it depends on how you define a core. Are there certain characteristics that a "core" must meet?

(as they're not for general purpose programming?)

Everything's relative. A X360 core or a Cell PPE is a lot less "general purpose" than a PC CPU for example. But handling "general purpose" code isn't what defines or doesn't define a "core".

You can call Cell multicore, or multiprocessor - whatever you like really, as long as you agree on terms. Some people prefer multi-processor, as they view the design as being more like seperate computers (the SPUs, with their own computational elements and their own memory) connected by a very fast network.

 

[Zer0]

I know, i dont remember Sony fans being so rabid. Its like my current stand with Nintendo. I love them but hate their fans, which mean i stop supporting Nintendo unless they bring out something special (Zelda and MArio games). Now with Sony, and their thread wrecking fans, im begining to hate Sony as a corp (i love my PS2 and im a huge supporter of PSP, Konami and Kojima)

Seriously, Sony fans used to be well grounded, unphased and intelligent, now i see posters i respect becoming more and more like me (which is bad!)

this coming from a xbox fanboy its pure comedy,its funny to see xbots whinning when they were the most irritating horde gaf has seen,not to mention teamxxxxx

whats the purpose of this thread? trolling on ps3,that´s obvious from the beginning

 

[JMPovoa]

What is the SPU, gofreak?

 

[Ponn]

Do you think he actually pays for hardware? He gets the latest and greatest hardware from major companies way before it ever hits the market.

You know, I was actually going to edit something about that in there. It pisses me off so much that celebrities and the people that can afford all this shit always end up getting all of it for free. Seriously why the hell do people like Paris Hilton need a free PSP. I know, I know...advertising and idolizing.

 

[J2 Cool]

Damn, those are pretty well rendered bots. PS3 you say?

 

[bishoptl]

we can rely on the mods to clean up the board

It's already started. Take a look around and see which of your favourites are....unusually quiet lately.

I think we're done here. *sigh*