John Romero says indies are the future of game development: 'These people are the ones that make triple-A studios go

IbizaPocholo

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
www.pcgamer.com

John Romero says indies are the future of game development: 'These people are the ones that make triple-A studios go, 'Wait a minute, we need to start doing this''

Finding funding for those indies is another matter.
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Romero said that, more than anything, game development as an industry is "so much bigger than it used to be," particularly in indie development.

"Just go to Itch.io if you want to see how many indies there are out there," Romero said. "How many games are released on Steam every month? Most of them are indie games. iOS, Android—indie, indie, indie."

And, Romero noted, it's not just the volume of indie games. It's the impact that they're having, because "when we look at the Game of the Year awards, half the time it's indies." He then ran down a string of recent hits developed by independent devs and studios: Balatro, Baldur's Gate 3, Helldivers 2, Clair Obscur—even the venerable Minecraft, an archetypal indie superhit before Mojang was sold into the Microsoft stable.

"These are all indies," Romero said. "These people are the ones that make the triple-A companies go, 'Wait a minute. We need to start doing this.'"

As for what that means for the industry's future, Romero was optimistic. "The industry has mostly always gone up," Romero said. "The amount of people playing games is massive."

According to Romero, it's easier than ever to put games in front of those players.

"You can make a game now and put it out there for people to get. Distribution is nothing now," Romero said. "Like back in the day, no way. Getting on a disc? That was expensive. To get in a store? Forget it. You're never going to do that as an indie."

Thanks to low barrier-to-entry development software like Godot and Unreal Engine and distribution platforms like Steam and Itch.io, Romero said "technology is solved." Instead, the main problem that developers face is discoverability.

"How is somebody going to see your stuff?" Romero said. "That really is down to [having] a great game design, because we do not have a technology problem anymore."
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He's technically correct, but there needs to be far greater curation on the major storefronts.

Itch.io can be as open as it wants but I wish Steam/PSN/Nintendo would be more discerning with what they allow and also give us way more granular ways to filter out AI slop, asset flips and general crap

We don't need more games. We need more good games.
 
RCX said:
He's technically correct, but there needs to be far greater curation on the major storefronts.

Itch.io can be as open as it wants but I wish Steam/PSN/Nintendo would be more discerning with what they allow and also give us way more granular ways to filter out AI slop, asset flips and general crap

We don't need more games. We need more good games.
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Totally correct, we need more good games, not saturated market with crappy games
 
Showtime Recording GIF by CBS
 
Hellblade and Clair Obscur are for sure great examples, but it's a damn hard work and not everyone have the guts to hold

But for sure it's better having like 10 indie or AA great games a year than ten AAA lazy games a year
 
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I agree with his sentiment. Its the smaller studios who manage to come up with actual nifty ideas these days. Big industry "professionals" have gotten creatively bankrupt and snatch those ideas up and reiterate them whenever they catch on, instead of brainstorming something to call their own.

Creative innovation and originality has pivoted to the "small guys" who dare to dream and the big leagues have dropped the ball in that regard nowadays.
 
He's right, just look at Sony. AAA gaming is so pricey now that all they do is extremely safe sequels.
They even changed the MC in Ghost sequel to a woman so players would be sure they weren't playing Tsushima by accident, since it's basically made of reused assets and animations.
 
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It's crazy how I get more for less money with indies these days.

Drop $70 on a AAAA game, play it for 10-20 hours.

vs

Drop $15 on an indie, play it for 70-150 hours.
 
These days I find myself bored with most AAA experiences, to the point where I rarely buy them on day 1 anymore. Especially the games that focus more on telling a story. I just don't have the time to commit to them and I often find myself having to start over to refresh myself with what's going on and how to play. I'm not saying that they are bad by any stretch. I just prefer more of a pick up and play experience right now and indies are what provide that for me.
 
The indie scene is thriving and I mainly play indie titles myself, but I don't see a strong relation with 'making triple A studios go'. Succesful indie games attract a dedicated and niche crowd. It's very rare for an indie game to blow up to become mainstream hit. Plus I don't see the market for mainstream blockbusters with AAA+ budgets (GTA VI) diminish even with inflation going on.
Also, another thing to consider is that industry giants can copy concepts of succesful indie titles to try to turn it into a mainstream hit.
 
"...make triple A studios go..." what?

It's like that quote in the title is not finished.

Are they making them go, "wow!" Or "ahh sheeeeeeet!" or "Got dammit!!!"?

Or are they making them "go sit down and think about their future?" Won't somebody please elucidate....?
 
TheThreadsThatBindUs said:
"...make triple A studios go..." what?

It's like that quote in the title is not finished.

Are they making them go, "wow!" Or "ahh sheeeeeeet!" or "Got dammit!!!"?

Or are they making them "go sit down and think about their future?" Won't somebody please elucidate....?
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Full quote and archived link:

John Romero says indies are the future of game development: 'These people are the ones that make triple-A studios go, 'Wait a minute, we need to start doing this''

Click to expand...
 
RCX said:
He's technically correct, but there needs to be far greater curation on the major storefronts.

Itch.io can be as open as it wants but I wish Steam/PSN/Nintendo would be more discerning with what they allow and also give us way more granular ways to filter out AI slop, asset flips and general crap

We don't need more games. We need more good games.
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I guess I don't game that much to come around AI Slops.
Steam suggested games usually are pretty good. Its a loooong ass line before we get to trashy game recommendations.
 
Kacho said:
It's crazy how I get more for less money with indies these days.

Drop $70 on a AAAA game, play it for 10-20 hours.

vs

Drop $15 on an indie, play it for 70-150 hours.
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Yeah agree. In some cases indie games can offer more than a few hundreds of hours of playtime which is something AAA games don't do unless it's some live-service crap designed to take your money.

Stuff like Rimworld or Factorio, I could see myself playing those games forever. You just don't see that kind of game design in AAA.
 
Shubh_C63 said:
I guess I don't game that much to come around AI Slops.
Steam suggested games usually are pretty good. Its a loooong ass line before we get to trashy game recommendations.
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I often find the opposite. Steam recommendations never really hit the mark for me. The filtering system is decent but I'm certain over the next year or two they're going to have more and more problems with the sheer number of games they allow to be published on their platform. AI is going to make it easier for good and bad devs to get their games out the door. The end result is going to be a tidal wave that will make it very difficult to figure out what is worth the time.

I guess I'll just keep doing as I have been: rely on a few podcasts and youtubers whose opinions I can trust and come to GAF.
 
Triple A games can lower their budgets to suit their own personal financial needs while still being very successful. It's always been exhaustingly boring pitting them, AA, and indies against each other when all can happily coexist. The biggest problem is just too many games out now. That's why IMO that the narrative of games taking longer isn't a negative unless your gaming tastes are so narrow you only like a small handful of titles.
 
Ar¢tos said:
He's right, just look at Sony. AAA gaming is so pricey now that all they do is extremely safe sequels.
They even changed the MC in Ghost sequel to a woman so players would be sure they weren't playing Tsushima by accident, since it's basically made of reused assets and animations.
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I don't think replacing the main character of the previous game that was a man, to now making the main character a woman in the sequel is "safe". lol
 
Good luck getting this place to praise indies, people here are graphics whores who all seem to pay $2000 for a fing gpu.

Indie games are great!!! My most played games are indies.

Songs of Syx, Manor lords, RimWorld, Factorio, Avernum 1-6, Gnomes, Noita, Gun Locked, Star Com Unknown space, Star Valor, Metal Hellsinger, Tiny Rogues, Guns of Fury, Blood West, Against the storm, KeeperRl, Dwarf Fortress, Foundation, Farthest frontier, Shapez2, Everspace, Oxygen not included, banished, Warband, Microtopia, Satisfactory, Halls of torment, ADom , Tales of maj'eyal, The pitt, Wizordum, ClanFolk, Skald against the black priory, Dorf romantik, doors of tithius, colony ship, Vampire survivors, Slay the spire, rogue legacy , Peglin, Heroes Hour, Song of conquest, Brotato, Prodeus, Ion Fury, House flipper, farming simulator, Schedule 1, Kingdoms and Castles, kingdoms reborn, two crowns, last epoch, Kenshi, bloodstained, etc....

So when people here bitch about "no new games until something something in October" I am like wtf.... There is a slew of great indies people probably never played because "need to have 4k textures and 1000 million team with nikki manage micro transaction skins".

I buy AAA, but good single player AAA is few and far between AA and indies take off and can give awesome ideas.

Now if only more Japanese devs would embrace making their franchises with indie or AA budgets... maybe we could have original ideas again (tokyo jungle, or games like vagrant story and megaman legends).
 
I feel like there needs to be some concrete, definitional lines drawn in the sand regarding what constitutes an "indie" game - because half the games Romero lists I would barely consider as such.
 
RCX said:
He's technically correct, but there needs to be far greater curation on the major storefronts.

Itch.io can be as open as it wants but I wish Steam/PSN/Nintendo would be more discerning with what they allow and also give us way more granular ways to filter out AI slop, asset flips and general crap

We don't need more games. We need more good games.
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yeah ...i would think cloud gaming could help here combined with curation. Gamepass should evolve into this.

If just as a demo service. Combined with ability to insta-try the games. And someone weeding out the junk. Eliminate the friction completely.
 
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It's been this way for a while, evidenced by AAA following trends set by smaller devs, rather than making any themselves now. Good news is that's why the industry will never crash, it's will just be AAA contracting.

RCX said:
Itch.io can be as open as it wants but I wish Steam/PSN/Nintendo would be more discerning with what they allow and also give us way more granular ways to filter out AI slop, asset flips and general crap

We don't need more games. We need more good games.
Click to expand...

Nah to the first part, Valve realized when they curated Steam they ended up leaving out good games that just didn't fit their own particular taste/bias. Steam at least since the early floods of early access improved discoverability quite a bit, but I do think they could allow more ways to filter like any game that has micro-transactions. Console storefronts have no excuse not to be better, given they do already heavily curate things, and are moving each gen towards digital being primary...I'd just like them to implement Steam's tagging system for sorting games given they don't even list many sub-genres.
 
drganon said:
I'll have to disagree with Romero. Most indie games are garbage.
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And most AAA?

He's objectively right anyway.

Arma mods —> DayZ mods—> H1Z1 —-> PUBG —-> Fortnite which has been the biggest and most popular game for years
 
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He might be right but indies and AA games will have to improve from what they currently are to attract more gamers, and become more popular, after all, the AAA games are not doing that now and haven't for a while.
 
Funny how not a single indie game is a decent length RPG. They're always shitty roguelites becuase theyre cheap to make and you can use the same procedural 2D maps.
 
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Rush2112 said:
Funny how not a single indie game is a decent length RPG. They're always shitty roguelites becuase theyre cheap to make and you can use the same procedural 2D maps.
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Hot damn you couldn't be wronger man.

JRPGs:


WRPGs:


Actual roguelikes:

 
It's been said before, multiple times. I remember it being said during the Xbox 360 Live Arcade stuff they used to do. I guess years later, gaming is more exposed and accessible.
Making games is "easier" for indies now with all the new game engines and how far they have advanced and making games can be a realistic goal for a lot more people now.

A lot of AAA game studios lost their passion for quality games and replaced it with greed and exploitation. They churn out the same soulless shit that acts like a front for a microtransaction store. Indie games have generally always been the face of gaming most people want.
 
Ar¢tos said:
He's right, just look at Sony. AAA gaming is so pricey now that all they do is extremely safe sequels.
They even changed the MC in Ghost sequel to a woman so players would be sure they weren't playing Tsushima by accident, since it's basically made of reused assets and animations.
Click to expand...

No, they have always done this. Problem now is it takes them 5 years to put out a sequel instead of 1-2 years like before.

I guess I'm supposed to believe that indies will fill in the gaps, but I have not touched an indie game in a really long time.
 
Are we living in a the twliglight zone? Ok, lets slow down.... dont let your hate for western devs cloud your judgement. Not once have I played an Indie game and said "wow, I hope to see AAA devs copy this"...Its always been more like "oh, neat. Not bad for an Indie game". We're just now getting away from an era where you couldnt find an Indie horror game that didnt copy the Silent Hills PT demo.
 
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DryvBy said:
Majority of indie games are absolute garbage. This week about 20 indie games hit steam and none of them were good.
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Just like books, movies, and music.

It's up to you to find the good content, it just took video games a while to reach a point of library oversaturation that the other mediums were already at.
 
Shodai said:
Yes, but he made Wolfenstein, Doom, and Quake. His opinion is infinitely more valuable than yours.
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So did Carmack, and then he made 3 more game engines, started building rockets, worked at a senior postion as Meta for VR and is now senior for OpenAI. One proved he has skills, other guy is worthless on his own.
 
Shadowstar39 said:
Good luck getting this place to praise indies, people here are graphics whores who all seem to pay $2000 for a fing gpu.

Indie games are great!!! My most played games are indies.

Songs of Syx, Manor lords, RimWorld, Factorio, Avernum 1-6, Gnomes, Noita, Gun Locked, Star Com Unknown space, Star Valor, Metal Hellsinger, Tiny Rogues, Guns of Fury, Blood West, Against the storm, KeeperRl, Dwarf Fortress, Foundation, Farthest frontier, Shapez2, Everspace, Oxygen not included, banished, Warband, Microtopia, Satisfactory, Halls of torment, ADom , Tales of maj'eyal, The pitt, Wizordum, ClanFolk, Skald against the black priory, Dorf romantik, doors of tithius, colony ship, Vampire survivors, Slay the spire, rogue legacy , Peglin, Heroes Hour, Song of conquest, Brotato, Prodeus, Ion Fury, House flipper, farming simulator, Schedule 1, Kingdoms and Castles, kingdoms reborn, two crowns, last epoch, Kenshi, bloodstained, etc....

So when people here bitch about "no new games until something something in October" I am like wtf.... There is a slew of great indies people probably never played because "need to have 4k textures and 1000 million team with nikki manage micro transaction skins".

I buy AAA, but good single player AAA is few and far between AA and indies take off and can give awesome ideas.

Now if only more Japanese devs would embrace making their franchises with indie or AA budgets... maybe we could have original ideas again (tokyo jungle, or games like vagrant story and megaman legends).
Click to expand...
It's possible to like both things. I paid over $3000 for my latest graphics card and definitely love nice visuals, but I still play a ton of smaller games as well and one of my most satisfying playthroughs this year was Cocoon.
 
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