Assuming everything the OP is saying is true. That's basically what I was thinking about this situation too.
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Just got my console (and I assume my account) banned from Live for playing Halo 4.
- Thread starter Skel1ingt0n
- Start date
Assuming everything the OP is saying is true. That's basically what I was thinking about this situation too.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's all about the definition of "legitimate".
There are those of us who define it as being simply an official Xbox game disc manufactured and distributed by MS. And then there are those who have an inexplicably narrower definition meaning one that has a receipt given at the very moment of purchase because if not the consumer is a borderline thief/criminal.
Whether the copy was acquired legally or illegally or through some not quite illegal tomfoolery, it's still a legit copy as in not a pirated one.
It blows my mind that someone could be so anti-consumer as to say getting an actual un-pirated version of the game early isn't legitimate.
Uno Venova
Banned
Time makes it not legitimate? Where does it say this?
He has one, I think I told you this before, but, keep going.
onlyindreams
Banned
Lets say that yes, this may be the case. Does that make it okay for these kinds of anti-consumer practices that come from them having control of their network to exist?
I mean come the fuck on. Things will only get worse as we further move into everything being digital and not actually "owning" any of our content. We need to get outraged and protest this kind of shit now, it's the only way to bring on change.
robotzombie
Member
No, its not either/or. It's ONLY the store that broke a "rule". And its not a rule, its not a law, its an agreement. Either way an end consumer should not be punished for a store breaking a "rule".
If it's not pirated then of course it's legitimate. Getting a game a day early doesn't magically make it "not legitimate". By that logic I've played a hell of a lot of non-legitimate games because online retailers will often get preorders delivered a day or two early. Does that mean my games weren't legitimate? No it does not, and the same applies in the OP's case:
Real Halo 4 disc? Legitimate.
Pirated copy? Not legitimate.
Metalmurphy
Member
See, now you are just twisting my words. I'm didn't say the OP specifically "got it" legitimately or not. I said the copy wasn't legitimate because either he OR the store, broke a rule. And that is a fact. Either way someone DID broke a rule.
Stores are not allowed to sell games early.
polyh3dron
Banned
If it is an official Xbox game disc manufactured and distributed by MS, then it is a legitimate copy.
Syph Medwes
Member
Just caught up on this thread...wow
OrangeYouGlad
Banned
I'm not sure why you're dismissing his point. The forum shows many people appealing their bans for having played stolen/pirated games.
In any case where someone is banned for playing a game early, the answer to resolving the issue has always been to show MS your proof of purchase and you'll be fine. OP apparently doesn't have one. The Policy Enforcement Team for XBL has always been very strict when it comes to banning people.
We would have to know whether the OP legitimately bought the game for anyone to decide whether the ban was justified. We don't know what he discussed with MS and whether or not he provided them with the retailer that sold him his copy, which would make it easier for them to determine if his copy is legitimate.
I know exactly what you meant. A store selling the game early does not make it illegitimate except in your rigid anti-consumer world.
Metalmurphy
Member
"le·git·i·mate
/liˈjitəmit/
Adjective
Conforming to the law or to rules: "his claims to legitimate authority"."
And again, you are taking OPs word for granted with no real proof by saying that only the store broke a rule.
Except it does.
onlyindreams
Banned
All that agreement means is that the store could get fined and probably not receive games from the publisher in the future. It doesn't invalidate the games they paid for.
Stop with the either, it was the store's decision to sell him the copy. He doesn't need to know street dates and I bet a lot of gamers wouldn't - whether he did is irrelevant, it was the store's mess up.
Besides, there's no law saying they can't sell games early. If there was then no preorders would be delivered early from online retailers because it would be illegal. It isn't illegal.
This entire ridiculous thread could have been avoided if Microsoft bothered to implement a Live whitelist for pre-release copies. But I guess it's easier to ban pirates and force them to buy a new console. And if some legitimate customers get caught in the crossfire, fuck em, they'll buy a new console as well!
You ever get one two weeks early? 10 days early?
What a shitty way of treating a genuine customer.
Mackenzie 92
Member
Yeah, one dated for release day that could have been for any copy sold. It's not hard to obtain a receipt after the fact. I could walk into a store right now, buy it, walk out, take a pic of receipt, and then return it for a full refund.
He should have left the store with his game and receipt in hand absolving him of any wrongdoing and he should not have made any stipulations regarding the retailer. That's not very smart when you're trying to prove you did nothing wrong.
robotzombie
Member
I did. Bayonetta, from Best Buy.
onlyindreams
Banned
And a diehard fan of the series who was just excited to play the next installment ASAP.
Uno Venova
Banned
A receipt on release day that he was told would be efficient.
And if he bought a game twice then he definitely has a legit copy of Halo 4, why is he still banned?
polyh3dron
Banned
OMG that's a whole bunch of potentially illegitimate copies! We need receipts, STAT.
Nope. Still doesn't make the copy "not legitimate", unless it was pirated - which doesn't appear to be the case.
paperspace
Member
Last edited:
Mackenzie 92
Member
I don't think you understand.
Let's just agree to disagree, we obviously don't see eye to eye on this and never will.
No it doesn't. Not unless it's a pirate copy.
polyh3dron
Banned
unless he downloaded it illegally, doesn't fucking matter. If it's a genuine game disc that MS got paid for (a retailer bought it from them) then it shouldn't have been an issue.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
It wouldn't have been an issue if he didn't connect to Live.
polyh3dron
Banned
but he did, and got his console banned for using a genuine Xbox game disc in the process.
I really dislike Microsoft for banning people who buy Genuine games. They should punish the stores instead, not the player.
This policy is just way too strict!
Although the banning of people who hack their console to play downloaded ungenuine games is something totally different, they have the full right to ban those people.
Still, I'm glad I got a ps3 and Wii instead of the xbox. I've never had any problems for playing games early and with the Wii you aren't even banned when playing backup games or homebrew.
This policy is just way too strict!
Although the banning of people who hack their console to play downloaded ungenuine games is something totally different, they have the full right to ban those people.
Still, I'm glad I got a ps3 and Wii instead of the xbox. I've never had any problems for playing games early and with the Wii you aren't even banned when playing backup games or homebrew.
onlyindreams
Banned
err, when Microsoft/343 goes on record to promise only burnt/pirated copies of the game would be detected and banned you kinda assume its safe.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯Metalmurphy
Member
Example 1: Op stole it
Example 2: Someone on the store stole it and sold it on the side
Example 3: Op paid extra to buy it before release, hence bribing someone on the store
Example 4: Illegal vendor
Just 4 that popped out of my mind, I'm sure there's much more, and I'm not saying any of them happened, but any one of is an issue and it absolutely does fucking matter. So stop saying stuff like that.
robotzombie
Member
I think you hit one one of the more important factors that hasn't been brought up much. Even if a person is sold a copy early by a store, MICROSOFT ALREADY GOT THEIR MONEY FOR THE GAME. The sixty dollars you spend to buy a game is not money for Microsoft, its money for the store. If the store has games to sell you early, its because they already bought those games from Microsoft.
polyh3dron
Banned
Example 1: Op stole it - it's still a genuine game disc and MS still got paid for it
Example 2: Someone on the store stole it and sold it on the side - still a genuine game disc
Example 3: Op paid extra to buy it before release, hence bribing someone on the store - still a genuine game disc
Example 4: Illegal vendor - still a genuine game disc
Example 2: Someone on the store stole it and sold it on the side - still a genuine game disc
Example 3: Op paid extra to buy it before release, hence bribing someone on the store - still a genuine game disc
Example 4: Illegal vendor - still a genuine game disc
Thought you weren't taking sides? Those four examples all, strangely enough, paint the OP as the villain in all this.
Even IF one of those were true, it doesn't matter. If the disc is real, it's legitimate, argument over.
Uno Venova
Banned
Are any one of those the reasons they banned him?
Metalmurphy
Member
Holy mother of fuck ahahaha. I'm done here.
Are you serious? If i'm trying to say that we have no way of knowing if this is all on MS or not I'm supposed to post examples that show the opposite? That makes sense how? Me showing that could be both stories to this is not me taking a side.
Beaten, but yep, totally.
You can't see how Microsoft would ask someone playing 10 days early, who isn't on the whitelist for early copies, to prove it was a legit copy?
I remember seeing a flood of people complaining they got banned before a Forza game, Forza 3 I think, claiming they had legit copies and I believe it was revealed they were playing those "bought copies" before Microsoft shipped any copies to retail at all.
Again the takeaway is that you only get half the story, at best, from anyone involved.
polyh3dron
Banned
It's about time.
polyh3dron
Banned
I don't care how much of the story I have when I see that he had a genuine copy that he used and it wasn't pirated. None of that other shit matters.
You shouldn't have your console banned for playing a genuine copy of a game if it can't be proven that you jacked it from a replication plant or some shit.. and again the burden of proof should be on MS and not the consumer. It'd be pretty hard for them to prove such a thing.
Yes I'm serious. You said you were remaining neutral on the issue, then you go and post four scenarios that are supposed to show that the OP acted wrongly and thus deserved banning.
All that matters is whether or not the disc in question is a real, genuine, Xbox 360 copy of Halo 4.
Metalmurphy
Member
Do you have any idea how ridiculous what you are saying is?
Someone ends up with a copy of Mona Lisa, IT'S THE REAL THING, totally genuine. Nothing can happen to him because it is genuine. How he got it doesn't matter AT ALL, because you know... it's genuine. If the Louvre decides to blacklist him lets all make a big fuss about it and call the human rights defenders!
I'll say again cause you obviously missed it the first time. "If i'm trying to say that we have no way of knowing if this is all on MS or not I'm supposed to post examples that show the opposite? That makes sense how? Me showing there could be both stories to this is not me taking a side." It's me saying, don't jump to conclusions. Period.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
It doesn't really matter whether the game disc was genuine or not.
MS have a history of banning people for playing early on their network, so why take the risk?
But MS has no way of knowing where anyone's retail copy originated from!
Was it bought? Was it a gift? Was it stolen? They have no idea, and it's none of their business!
And nobody should be banned based on a hunch or some obscure circumstantial evidence. That's just ridiculous!
I was fine with the initial bannings that occured a month before the street date, when only pirated copies were out in the wild. But once the game has been shipped to retailers, that policy should have stopped immediately to make sure that no paying customer get's treated like a pirate.
polyh3dron
Banned
As someone who hasn't resolved their opinion on the whole thing, this has me a tad confused. Even if it was revealed that he stole the copy, you don't think it reasonable that MS would ban such a person playing pre-release, and only unban them upon a showing of proof-of-purchase? They should be satisfied by a picture of the box and disc?
I don't have a dog in the fight, just genuinely curious.
Uno Venova
Banned
The mona lisa lol
No they don't have a way to tell it was stolen and a ban first and ask questions later approach hurts regular customers.