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[chadtwo]

It's an indictment of their characters only if you think being a white reactionary conservative (at least on race issues) is an indictment of one's moral character.

Right, the problem, in my opinion, is that Jado isn't quoting these posters to merely point out that they're "white reactionary conservatives," he's quoting them to imply that they're racist, not level-headed people, and eager to defend evil people. I think that's an unfounded conclusion based on these posts, numerous though they may be.

I'm not a white reactionary conservative and I find myself understanding where a lot of these posts are coming from, so unless either of them have explicitly stated their political beliefs (which I very well could've missed, if so, sorry), that might be jumping to conclusions too.

Regardless, being white, reactionary, and a conservative per se aren't signs of weaker moral character, in my opinion. I realize many would argue otherwise and I don't know if I'm ok with that.

 

[DY_nasty]

defend years of subtle racism brehs

 

[Dude Abides]

Right, the problem, in my opinion, is that Jado isn't quoting these posters to merely point out that they're "white reactionary conservatives," he's quoting them to imply that they're racist, not level-headed people, and eager to defend evil people. I think that's an unfounded conclusion based on these posts, numerous though they may be.

I'm not a white reactionary conservative and I find myself understanding where a lot of these posts are coming from, so unless either of them have explicitly stated their political beliefs (which I very well could've missed, if so, sorry), that might be jumping to conclusions too.

Regardless, being white, reactionary, and a conservative per se aren't signs of weaker moral character, in my opinion. I realize many would argue otherwise and I don't know if I'm ok with that.

Well, white reactionary conservatives tend to be racist (or sympathetic to racists), and eager to defend them.

Also, you can generally infer someone's political beliefs on a particular topic from the statements they make concerning that topic, even if they don't explicitly describe their political views.

 

[Slayven]

lol

Just think of all the future politicians that are going to get fucked by their old Twitter/YT/FB footprints. The Jados of the future are going to have a field day.

Anthony Weiner was only the beginning.

 

[chadtwo]

Well, white reactionary conservatives tend to be racist (or sympathetic to racists), and eager to defend them.

Also, you can generally infer someone's political beliefs on a particular topic from the statements they make concerning that topic, even if they don't explicitly describe their political views.

I guess I don't know how conservative you're talking here but it seems to me you're then basically calling like half of the American populace racist, which seems bold, to say the least (unless you mean implicitly racist, but that's not just conservatives, that's everyone).

My point is that I don't think there's enough solid evidence from these posts to make the inference that they're racist conservatives. I don't see a defense of racism in their posts, I see a defense against what they perceive to be misattributed as racism. Again, I'm pretty much as left as it gets and I could see myself saying a lot of these things. Many people just think that too many people condemn supposed instances of racism without actually dealing with its root causes.

 

[theignoramus]

I think that's an unfounded conclusion based on these posts, numerous though they may be.

"numerous" posts defending morally dubious comments and actions and you claim our conclusions about them are unfounded?
anyway, your unwillingness to see the forest for the trees really doesnt matter. Most people will now see plain as day what those guys were about.

 

[Devolution]

It's not racism unless white men sign off on it being racism brehs.

 

[J10]

chadtwo is probably a racist. I'm a half white man and I'm signing off on that.

 

[chadtwo]

"numerous" posts defending morally dubious comments and actions and you claim our conclusions about them are unfounded?
anyway, your unwillingness to see the forest for the trees really doesnt matter. Most people will now see plain as day what those guys were about.

I think what you all see as defending morally dubious things (or, as Seanspeed believes, merely "perceived" racism) I see as Seanspeed just explaining them. For example, Seanspeed wasn't really defending Confederate flags, in my opinion. He even admitted they're a bad symbol to use because of their historical connotations. He was just saying it's a symbol of southern pride, which is (sometimes) true. Or look at Justin Bieber. He doesn't like Justin Bieber, and isn't defending his actions. He's just saying that it's not Bieber being racist, it's him being stupid and immature. Calling someone stupid and immature isn't a defense, in my opinion. Or, as with the other poster (can't remember his name offhand) and the Duck Dynasty thing, he's not so much defending Phil (or whatever the guy's name is) as he is saying it's not worth people's time to talk about.

I would also challenge the "morally dubious" claim of yours. He's not always defending morally dubious characters, as with the cops. In that post, he was defending cops as a whole, not racist cops. He was saying that it's unfair to judge all cops based on the racism of a few. There's a bunch of other examples from those posts Jado made that I could talk about, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

chadtwo is probably a racist. I'm a half white man and I'm signing off on that.

Yikes. I really am sorry if my posts are coming off as racist. I don't mean them to. My posts aren't intended to promote racism, they're just my opinion that Seanspeed is maybe being unfairly accused of racism. A lot of the stuff I don't even necessarily agree with these guys on. As I've said above, some of it I do, but the Trayvon Martin case was absolutely driven by race IMO, and I'm not okay with faggot being thrown around the way it is. I just think that people are too eagerly latching on to these two.

 

[theignoramus]

I would also challenge the "morally dubious" claim of yours. He's not always defending morally dubious characters, as with the cops. In that post, he was defending cops as a whole, not racist

He also claimed having prejudiced feelings about cops was as bad as racism which is one of the dumbest, most insulting things Ive read around here.

 

[cobragt4001]

I really don't think that applies here. Bieber owes everything he's ever made to Usher and Mayweather essentially works for no one and cuts his own checks. Neither have any forced obligation to the guy and Mayweather is extremely outspoken to say the least.

The entire YMCMB crew is dumb as hell though so that's just them fitting in.

It applies perfectly. The industry pushed Bieber to be in the spot he's in and anyone who steps in the way will suffer from those actions. Dude is a straight up supremacist because of his actions and you have these sellout ass negros defending him.

 

[royalan]

I think what you all see as defending morally dubious things (or, as Seanspeed believes, merely "perceived" racism) I see as Seanspeed just explaining them. For example, Seanspeed wasn't really defending Confederate flags, in my opinion. He even admitted they're a bad symbol to use because of their historical connotations. He was just saying it's a symbol of southern pride, which is (sometimes) true. Or look at Justin Bieber. He doesn't like Justin Bieber, and isn't defending his actions. He's just saying that it's not Bieber being racist, it's him being stupid and immature. Calling someone stupid and immature isn't a defense, in my opinion. Or, as with the other poster (can't remember his name offhand) and the Duck Dynasty thing, he's not so much defending Phil (or whatever the guy's name is) as he is saying it's not worth people's time to talk about.

I would also challenge the "morally dubious" claim of yours. He's not always defending morally dubious characters, as with the cops. In that post, he was defending cops as a whole, not racist cops. He was saying that it's unfair to judge all cops based on the racism of a few. There's a bunch of other examples from those posts Jado made that I could talk about, but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

Convenient excuses that kind of lose their weight in the absence of any examples of seanspeed arguing for perceived racial slight.

 

[chadtwo]

He also claimed having prejudiced feelings about cops was as bad as racism which is one of the dumbest, most insulting things Ive read around here.

You mean when he said that prejudice against the cops leads to more racism? I agree that that's not true (though I do think prejudice against cops isn't the answer). But yea, please understand that I'm not putting forth a wholesale defense of everything the guy's ever said, just arguing that a good amount of it might be unfairly scrutinized and inaccurately presented.

Convenient excuses that kind of lose their weight in the absence of any examples of seanspeed arguing for perceived racial slight.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. Could you please reword?

 

[Jado]

Granted I don't know the context of all these threads but a lot of this stuff isn't as unreasonable as you're making it out to be, in my opinion.

Edit: Neither is a lot of the stuff you posted about Jangocube. I don't know why people think either of these posts "destroyed" Seanspeed or Jangocube. I'll warrant that it's kinda funny that Seanspeed's buddy happens to take similar stances on all this stuff, but it seems like you're using what are, at worst, many minor errors in judgment to seriously indict these posters' moral characters.

I didn't think someone would come to their defense, but like Black GAF say about the woman that went on a racist tirade and other similar shit: there's always someone ready to defend or deny wrongdoing no matter how fucked up.

Many, many "minor errors" in race-related threads with the same undercurrent of racism denial, barely concealed attacks against minorities and very rarely admitting racism exists unless it involved the white victim angle. These guys had a deliberate agenda every single time and were prepared, very predictably, to shit up every thread on race-related issues. How much more until one stopped giving them the benefit of doubt?

No, you really don't know the context of the threads where these quotes come from. Take the time to find out why so many of us were fed up with specifically those two before drawing conclusions with incomplete information. I never said they were destroyed; just set out to demonstrate their stupid habits and a clear pattern of behavior.

 

[royalan]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're saying. Could you please reword?

You're missing the big ass forest for the trees.

 

[chadtwo]

I didn't think someone would come to their defense, but like Black GAF say about the woman that went on a racist tirade and other similar shit: there's always someone ready to defend or deny wrongdoing no matter how fucked up.

Many, many "minor errors" in race-related threads with the same undercurrent of racism denial, barely concealed attacks against minorities and very rarely admitting racism exists unless it involved the white victim angle. These guys had a deliberate agenda every single time and were prepared, very predictably, to shit up every thread on race-related issues. How much more until one stopped giving them the benefit of doubt?

No, you really don't know the context of the threads where these quotes come from. Take the time to find out why so many of us were fed up with specifically those two before drawing conclusions with incomplete information. I never said they were destroyed; just set out to demonstrate their stupid habits and a clear pattern of behavior.

(For organizational purposes, read each paragraph as addressing your corresponding one)

The majority of the time I'd be right there with you rolling my eyes at the defender of racism or whatever, but I'm sorry that I have to be "that guy" on this one. I really don't think either of them have committed any serious "wrongdoing," nor do I believe my defending them is comparable to people who defend the "fucked up" actions of those who commit heinous racial crimes or utter blatant racial slurs (I'm not familiar with the woman you reference in your post).

I think, and maybe I'm being naive and overly optimistic, that the reason they respond so consistently in all of these race threads is that they're just fed up with what *they perceive* as unwarranted accusations of racism. Sometimes I think their frustrations are justified, other times I don't. But I don't think it's strictly accurate to say that they are pushing a racial agenda. I also don't see them outright denying that racism exists.

Fair enough, and I will certainly take the time to read them and tell you what I think of them after doing so. To be fair though, you clearly expected people to only read the blurbs you posted before impulsively posting in anger, and I'm willing to bet most of the people who are decrying these posts haven't really taken the time to examine the threads themselves either. The people I was talking about with the "destroyed" bit aren't you yourself, but rather the dozens of poster who've now reached that conclusion.

You're missing the big ass forest for the trees.

Continuing along that same idiom, I think I'd say it's more accurate to say that, for better or for worse, I just see an entirely different forest than all of you. You see an a racist, anti-minority agenda; I see an agenda geared towards defending those believed by Seanspeed to be falsely accused of racism.

 

[Enzom21]

Continuing along that same idiom, I think I'd say it's more accurate to say that, for better or for worse, I just see an entirely different forest than all of you. You see an a racist, anti-minority agenda; I see an agenda geared towards defending those believed by Seanspeed to be falsely accused of racism.

Except Seanspeed only defends people being accused of racism when the racism is directed at blacks or other minorities.
I guess you missed this post detailing his anger about racism... but only when it's directed at whites.

Seanspeed and Jangocube's agenda is quite clear.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

More people believe in ghosts than racism.

 

[Stet]

More people believe in ghosts than racism.

fuck ghosts.
taking our god damn jobs.

 

[JDSN]

Alt account approvals are getting faster.

 

[theignoramus]

Except Seanspeed only defends people being accused of racism when the racism is directed at blacks or other minorities.
I guess you missed this post detailing his anger about racism... but only when it's directed at whites.

that linked post is more damning and revealing than most of what Jado posted to be honest. His BS agenda is fully transparent here. That guy really wants people to know that a) whites are on the receiving end of racism, especially from blacks and that b)racism directed at minorities doesnt count as such unless its so obvious even an apologist like him would be a fool to defend it.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

When a white person rarely or never agrees that something is racism, but they're really happy to point out when they feel it toward themselves, they're racist. Let's not give people the benefit of the doubt when they're dismissing how people feel about race issues. No one gets invested this much in telling others something isn't racism without having some strong feelings behind it.

 

[DemurOnion]

Thread keeps getting bumped and I keep thinking he is still doing this. Stop it GAF. Get over this facking clown.

 

[chadtwo]

Except Seanspeed only defends people being accused of racism when the racism is directed at blacks or other minorities.
I guess you missed this post detailing his anger about racism... but only when it's directed at whites.

Seanspeed and Jangocube's agenda is quite clear.

But did you look at the thread? The purpose of the thread itself is to ask whether or not whites can experience racism. All he's saying is that he doesn't think it's acceptable to call racism against whites any less inherently bad, and a lot of those comments are in response to some pretty bold claims (someone claimed racism against whites can't be taken seriously). Some of the posts are silly (the last one saying that he's been repeatedly persecuted by minorities comes to mind), but by and large these he's saying that racism in any form sucks, even against whites. Why read more into it than that? He was hardly the only one saying it in that particular thread.

At any rate, this was a thread to talk about Bieber being stupid again, and I've probably played a huge part in derailing it. So that I don't end up talking in circles, needlessly make people angry, and make this thread way longer than it needs to be, maybe we can agree to disagree? I'm clearly not going to change anyone's mind, or vice versa.

Alt account approvals are getting faster.

I'm not Seanspeed.

 

[FreeMufasa]

But did you look at the thread? The purpose of the thread itself is to ask whether or not whites can experience racism. All he's saying is that he doesn't think it's acceptable to call racism against whites any less inherently bad, and a lot of those comments are in response to some pretty bold claims (someone claimed racism against whites can't be taken seriously). Some of the posts are silly (the last one saying that he's been repeatedly persecuted by minorities comes to mind), but by and large these he's saying that racism in any form sucks, even against whites. Why read more into it than that? He was hardly the only one saying it in that particular thread.

At any rate, this was a thread to talk about Bieber being stupid again, and I've probably played a huge part in derailing it. So that I don't end up talking in circles, needlessly make people angry, and make this thread way longer than it needs to be, maybe we can agree to disagree? I'm clearly not going to change anyone's mind, or vice versa.



I'm not Seanspeed.

U shud try to change my mind. Cos u coming off racist.

 

[chadtwo]

U shud try to change my mind. Cos u coming off racist.

I'm sorry that that's the case, but I honestly don't see how I am. My main bone of contention isn't even about whether all these events that've been "defended" by Seanspeed are racist or not racist, it's about what I think is needless dogpiling and character assassination against someone, and I've made like two posts that even begin to talk about my personal stance on the matter of race in all these referenced threads. I'm not defending Seanspeed because I agree with him, I'm defending him because I think his stances have been a little warped or exaggerated by people. That doesn't mean I'm excusing anything. My view is that you can still think it's crazy or wrong for him to believe that confederate flags aren't racist, or that those tweets about the spelling bee weren't racist, but that it might be a jump to then condemn him as morally inferior or racist.

 

[Maffis]

I'm pretty sure most people here have used the n-word before, be it comical or insulting, it's extremely common to use as a reaction word.

 

[royalan]

I'm pretty sure most people here have used the n-word before, be it comical or insulting, it's extremely common to use as a reaction word.

nigger?

 

[Jado]

Fair enough, and I will certainly take the time to read them and tell you what I think of them after doing so. To be fair though, you clearly expected people to only read the blurbs you posted before impulsively posting in anger, and I'm willing to bet most of the people who are decrying these posts haven't really taken the time to examine the threads themselves either. The people I was talking about with the "destroyed" bit aren't you yourself, but rather the dozens of poster who've now reached that conclusion.

Impulsively posting in anger? Every single quote link backs to its relevant thread. No, I did not "clearly expect" anyone to only read bits and pieces. In fact, I specifically stated at the very top of my post for people to click through to each one for full context and that I only posted a fraction of his total number of questionable posts. Your assumptions about me and others here who disagree with Seanspeed are really condescending and unfounded.

Continuing along that same idiom, I think I'd say it's more accurate to say that, for better or for worse, I just see an entirely different forest than all of you. You see an a racist, anti-minority agenda; I see an agenda geared towards defending those believed by Seanspeed to be falsely accused of racism.

There's nothing accurate about your assessment. The problems with that pair have been ongoing for months and involved a number of us having run-ins with them. Maybe it would be best for you to concede that there's something glaringly obvious that you are missing, instead of clumsily assuming everyone else is in the wrong due to some great wisdom and insight that only you possess. Frankly, you come across as hilariously naive about racism. What kind of an oblivious person do you have to be to give the benefit of doubt to someone who approves of this extremely racist Youtube video?

When a white person rarely or never agrees that something is racism, but they're really happy to point out when they feel it toward themselves, they're racist. Let's not give people the benefit of the doubt when they're dismissing how people feel about race issues. No one gets invested this much in telling others something isn't racism without having some strong feelings behind it.

This is it in a nutshell; read this carefully a couple of times so it sinks in. You're trying to dissect each individual, seemingly minor post, but have made no earnest attempt at recognizing their stupidly obvious pattern across a number of threads.

This is a guess on my part, albeit a reasonable one in my opinion: I think those two would have tiptoed around less and been more vocal with their rather racist feelings if GAF moderation wasn't so tight/strict. I've said it before: there is an element on these boards that knows you can't get away with "niggers being violent thugs again," but is perfectly aware they will fly just under the radar by using coded language ("WTF is wrong with these urban teens/rap culture/etc."). But it hardly matters because taking their posts in aggregate, their sentiments about minorities were still blatantly obvious. I'm embarrassed for you not being able to recognize that.

 

[chadtwo]

Impulsively posting in anger? Every single quote link backs to its relevant thread. No, I did not "clearly expect" anyone to only read bits and pieces. In fact, I specifically stated at the very top of my post for people to click through to each one for full context and that I only posted a fraction of his total number of questionable posts. Your assumptions about me and others here who disagree with Seanspeed are really condescending and unfounded.



There's nothing accurate about your assessment. The problems with that pair have been ongoing for months and involved a number of us having run-ins with them. Maybe it would be best for you to concede that there's something glaringly obvious that you are missing, instead of clumsily assuming everyone else is in the wrong due to some great wisdom and insight that only you possess. Frankly, you come across as hilariously naive about racism. What kind of an oblivious person do you have to be to give the benefit of doubt to someone who approves of this extremely racist Youtube video?



This is it in a nutshell; read this carefully a couple of times so it sinks in. You're trying to dissect each individual, seemingly minor post, but have made no earnest attempt at recognizing their stupidly obvious pattern across a number of threads.

This is a guess on my part, albeit a reasonable one in my opinion: I think those two would have tiptoed around less and been more vocal with their rather racist feelings if GAF moderation wasn't so tight/strict. I've said it before: there is an element on these boards that knows you can't get away with "niggers being violent thugs again," but is perfectly aware they will fly just under the radar by using coded language ("WTF is wrong with these urban teens/rap culture/etc."). But it hardly matters because taking their posts in aggregate, their sentiments about minorities were still blatantly obvious. I'm embarrassed for you not being able to recognize that.

I'm sorry, I won't assume anything about you from now on, although I also don't appreciate the assumption that I'm "hilariously naive" or "oblivious." Sorry it came off as condescending. I really am not trying to imply that it's some wisdom or intellect that I have that you all don't. I just see it differently, and maybe I'm way off on it. You bring up a good point in your last paragraph; you absolutely can't be direct about being racist on GAF, and I'm very aware that racism wouldn't manifest itself so obviously here. I"m also generally pretty okay at picking up subtle racism from time to time. I think the reason that I'm looking silly to all of you is that, for me, calling someone something as serious as racist requires an extremely high threshold of evidence. I mean honestly I would have to at least meet the guy in person before I could make that kind of judgment. But that's just me, and maybe I forced that on you guys a little too harshly. I'm also of the belief that attempting to get an idea of the big picture, so to speak, can lead to flaws in judgment. It's necessary to have an understanding of the details, in my opinion, and that's why I have looked at individual posts. Yes, the quantity of these posts is suspect, but to me, it's not inconceivable that there exists someone out there who isn't really that racist but is really abnormally adamant about calling out what they think isn't actually racist, and therefore brings it up whenever possible. Yeah, it's an oddly specific person, but I think you have to account for possibilities like that before calling someone racist or anti-minority. Finally, I'm not naive in that I certainly get how and why these posts can come off as racist. I'm not so obtuse as to not understand that. I just can't feel good calling an internet stranger racist based off of these posts alone.

Well, that's pretty much the nutshell of my points. Again, I really don't want to talk this death and I really doubt anything will come of this. I respect what you're saying and see all your points, and I see how I could look crazy. But at the end of the day I think we've reached an impasse.