Support NeoGAF

[Legal Step]

So I'm not the only one who gets the gamesindustry.biz newsletter.

I think his doubts are about the standards.

This next generation will bring us pretty and stupid games!

 

[John Harker]

Next Generation Gaming: No Place To Hideo!

 

[Roland Hood]

Maybe he saw the Killzone 2 demo, thought it was gameplay and said to himself 'how the fuck am I going to do that?'

 

[kaching]

Either way, smaller developers get shafted.

The smaller developer ends up with more power at their disposal than they have resources to fully tap into - i.e. they can work to their teams full potential without worrying banging against the limits of the hardware. And that extra headroom lets them be more sloppy/inefficient in their overall game design, not that you'd want to condone such practice. I doubt the situation is much different for them on the X360.

There are probably downsides for the small developer - a gap between the haves (big devs) and the have nots (small devs), if you will, is a potential problem but not one that should be unmanageable to a team that has a clear vision for their game product and knows how to market it effectively. In any case, its not strictly a situation where the small dev gets "shafted" without alternative. There are upsides here and its just a question of how well they capitalize on those.

 

[Doube D]

It's not like kojima does anything himself. He just blurts out some freaky shit and puts his programmer in a hole until their fingers are bleeding.... then everyone goes wow @ the graphics and he gets the credit. eh.

Then again all directors/producers... do this.

 

[dark10x]

Maybe he saw the Killzone 2 demo, thought it was gameplay and said to himself 'how the fuck am I going to do that?'

I don't think that's how Kojima's team works. They are more likely to look at something like that and try to beat it...

 

[Kid Chameleon]

*It's a rumor, or has it been confirmed yet?

:lol :lol :lol

 

[Kid Chameleon]

There are probably downsides for the small developer - a gap between the haves (big devs) and the have nots (small devs), if you will, is a potential problem but not one that should be unmanageable to a team that has a clear vision for their game product and knows how to market it effectively. In any case, its not strictly a situation where the small dev gets "shafted" without alternative. There are upsides here and its just a question of how well they capitalize on those.

I can't help thinking about companies like Treasure. They might have some quirky design ideas, but if they haven't got enough programmers and artists to include the sort of details that consumers are seeing in titles from other developers, then how can they expect to compete? Let's not forget that Treasure's 16-bit titles were praised just as much for their technical acheivements as they were for their design. And they acheieved mass-market penetration.

 

[DarienA]

I can't help thinking about companies like Treasure. They might have some quirky design ideas, but if they haven't got enough programmers and artists to include the sort of details that consumers are seeing in titles from other developers, then how can they expect to compete? Let's not forget that Treasure's 16-bit titles were praised just as much for their technical acheivements as they were for their design. And they acheieved mass-market penetration.

These are the developers Nintendo should aggressively court...

 

[Kid Chameleon]

These are the developers Nintendo should aggressively court...

I agree. But it depends somewhat on which direction Nintendo goes with Revolution, and whether or not it can sell that direction to the mass market.

 

[dark10x]

Good visuals do not necessarily require a big team. Wasn't Wreckless the product of like 4 or 5 guys? That still stands as one of the most impressive looking games on the XBOX...

 

[Kid Chameleon]

What it really comes down to is development tools... All three manufacturers need to make sure that developers can make games for their systems easily and cheaply. Listen up Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo - ask Criterion nicely and you might get the kind of tools that developers want.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Good visuals do not necessarily require a big team. Wasn't Wreckless the product of like 4 or 5 guys? That still stands as one of the most impressive looking games on the XBOX...

Very true. I think Wreckless was really good as a launch period game too - it was easy to get into, fun to play, and was a great demonstration of what to expect from the hardware. On the subject of Wreckless, wasn't Bunkasha better known for producing porn than videogames?

 

[PhatSaqs]

Have we come to a conlusion of what the GAF interpretation of these comments is?

 

[Kid Chameleon]

Have we come to a conlusion of what the GAF interpretation of these comments is?

Is there a conclusion? The translation from Japanese to English makes it hard to say for sure.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Also it's not like you have to have the best technical graphics to be competitive in the games market, look at GTA it's not nearly the prettiest game out there but sells tons.

 

[Tellaerin]

Perhaps. But that's not what Kojima is saying here. He's saying it will still be hard to create games that take advantage of hardware, this time because of the power, rather than poor development tools. Either way, smaller developers get shafted.

So you think the answer's to make the system less powerful, to keep bigger developers from creating games that look too much better than the efforts of the smaller studios? Because that's what you seem to be implying when you complain about how more power == smaller devs getting screwed.

 

[Kid Chameleon]

So you think the answer's to make the system less powerful, to keep bigger developers from creating games that look too much better than the efforts of the smaller studios? Because that's what you seem to be implying when you complain about how more power == smaller devs getting screwed.

What it really comes down to is development tools... All three manufacturers need to make sure that developers can make games for their systems easily and cheaply. Listen up Sony, Microsoft & Nintendo - ask Criterion nicely and you might get the kind of tools that developers want.

Also it's not like you have to have the best technical graphics to be competitive in the games market, look at GTA it's not nearly the prettiest game out there but sells tons.

GTA might not be that pretty, but it is technically impressive and it takes huge teams to get all those cars, characters, dynamics etc in there.

 

[Tellaerin]

Kid Chameleon: Fair enough, but there's only so far that middleware's going to go, and a larger, more-skilled team is always going to get more (sometimes much more) out of the hardware than a smaller one will. The gap becomes even more pronounced as consoles become capable of handling larger, more detailed environments, forcing developers to fill those environments with more (and more detailed) characters and objects for the player to interact with. As you pointed out, art assets don't generate themselves.

So yes, games from large developers stand to look (and possibly play) better than the ones from smaller studios, and yes, this difference is only going to become more pronounced over time, middleware or no. Small development houses are giving way to larger ones as game development becomes more demanding, just as lone bedroom coders gave way to the first game studios years ago. It's inevitable, really. It's about time we reconciled ourselves to that fact.

 

[Shompola]

I am not big into asian women, but the one in legal steps avatar is very nice. Seen her with xbox outfit standing with Naka in some picture.

 

[bloke]

So how can Kojima make comments on development for XB360? Unless...

 

[Kid Chameleon]

So how can Kojima make comments on development for XB360? Unless...

...one of the other teams at Konami is busily porting the latest Dance Dance Revolution to Microsoft's new console, and some of the programmers have bumped into Kojima in the diner!