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[onQ123]

https://kotaku.com/epic-and-microsoft-aren-t-saying-whether-that-unreal-ps-1843477495

Epic Games' impressive Unreal 5 tech demo revealed earlier this week was running on a PS5 development kit. Whether it can also run on Xbox Series X remains a mystery.

"The demo we revealed [on Wednesday] is running on PS5 because that's been our target platform for this particular experience," a spokesperson for Epic told Kotaku in an email yesterday. "UE5, with core technologies like Niagara VFX and Chaos physics and destruction—and the newly revealed Nanite virtualized geometry and Lumen dynamic global illumination—is also targeting Xbox Series X."

When pressed about if the demo was designed specifically for PS5 and couldn't run on Xbox Series X the spokesperson simply said, "We aren't running it on XBSX."




Microsoft has been similarly vague about specifics while clearly wanting people to expect similar performance from their next machine. "The fidelity seen in the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo is something that people can expect for next gen gaming across devices," a spokesperson for Microsoft told Kotaku in an email. "Developers around the world, including the majority of our 15 Xbox Game Studios teams, are using Unreal Engine to build their future projects. We look forward to partnering with Epic and working closely with Unreal 5 across our development teams when it releases in 2021."


Epic's roughly seven minute tech demo called "Lumen in the Land of Nanite" showed a woman traversing ancient ruins full of detailed textures and complex lighting effects. At the very end she even takes flight, zooming through the air as rocks fall and towers crumble, showing just how quickly the world around her could be rendered. And all of it—which Epic says is playable—was captured from a PS5 development kit.

But at no point during the presentation or afterwards did Epic mention the other next-gen console coming this fall, Xbox Series X. When prompted to compare the PS5's capabilities to Microsoft's console during an interview with Geoff Keighly, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney demurred. "We love all our of our babies and we can't make comparisons or pick favorites," he said.

Epic is a third-party company that does business with Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and many more game creators, but their presumed platform agnosticism came off more partisan on Wednesday thanks to their decision to tie their new game engine demo with PlayStation. That decision has sparked valid questions about what the two upcoming rival PlayStation and Xbox consoles are capable of and has spurred a new round of ridiculous one-upmanship between fans of the two companies.

 

[Fbh]

Sounds like your standard marketing deal.

Also if Epic hasn't ported the demo to Series X what's MS supposed to do? Break into Epic and steal it?

 

[Aion002]

Well it is, probably, optimized to PS5..... So... It makes sense that, that demo, can't run on Series X.


However, with optimization, it surely can. If it will run worse or better... only time will tell.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Marketing. Marketing. Marketing.

 

[Allandor]

Two words: Marketing deal.

 

[Cert.in.Death]

Strikes me as they're not "permitted" to say whether it runs on Xbox or not. But c'mon, Epic publicly announced they're porting Fortnite to both PS5 & XSeX and updating it to UE5 in mid 2021. Doesn't take much brain power to recognize the between-the-lines news.

EDIT: BAMBOOZLED. Thread rename makes us all redundant.

 

[Captain Hero]

Well it is, probably, optimized to PS5..... So... It makes sense that, that demo, can't run on Series X.


However, with optimization, it surely can. If it will run worse or better... only time will tell.

I think series X can run it smoothly and maybe slightly better when it comes to res ..
but it could be optimized on PS5 so that why they can't at the moment

 

[Makoto-Yuki]

i don't see why it couldn't. the PS5 is the weaker console. the only advantage the PS5 has over XSX is faster SSD speeds and even then the XSX isn't slow.

if anything i'd say the XSX could run it better. maybe that's why they showed it on PS5 because it's the weaker hardware and will be a better example of what to expect since so many games will need to be gimped down to work on PS5.

 

[GHG]

But Greenberg said...

 

[IntentionalPun]

Yeah they were careful with their statements yesterday too.

Any statement about scalability was generic about features/the engine.

I think series X can run it smoothly and maybe slightly better when it comes to res ..
but it could be optimized on PS5 so that why they can't at the moment

They also went on and on about scalability; about how you could make a game for high end next-gen consoles that would run on a phone.

In fact one of the mains selling points was the lack of need for optimization; import massive assets and the engine will render what it can.

 

[jackets with pockets]

As Epic stated in the interview with Geoff Keighley the demo will run on other systems but with less detail.

My take is that the Series X version could even run at higher resolution than the PS5 one but with less polygonal detail.

 

[Aion002]

I think series X can run it smoothly and maybe slightly better when it comes to res ..
but it could be optimized on PS5 so that why they can't at the moment

Yep. Also, Sony could have some deal behind the scenes for something yet to be revealed.

It's fun to make jokes about flops and stuff, but a video game console is much more than just raw power.

 

[FranXico]

Hurry up! Post here how the marketing deal is the only reason that they didn't build this demo from ground up for the Glorious Xbox Series X!

My take is that the Series X version could even run at higher resolution than the PS5 one but with less polygonal detail.

Exactly.

 

[longdi]

Sounds like a marketing deal, Sony pays some pennies to talk about software to cover up their hardware disadvantage.

 

[ethomaz]

i don't see why it couldn't. the PS5 is the weaker console. the only advantage the PS5 has over XSX is faster SSD speeds and even then the XSX isn't slow.

if anything i'd say the XSX could run it better. maybe that's why they showed it on PS5 because it's the weaker hardware and will be a better example of what to expect since so many games will need to be gimped down to work on PS5.

Point said the Nanite demo they showed basically rely on storage speeds and freeing up GPU power.

For that specific demo yes PS5 qualities are more important than RAW power.

If I have to guess:

+ PS5: lower resolution, more Nanite details on screen
+ Xbox: higher resolution, less Nanite details on screen

For the tech they demoed yesterday PS5 is unmatchable even in PC space today.

 

[Stuart360]

They also didnt want to talk about PC when pushed. Its a standard marketing deal ffs, honestly some of you lol.

 

[Agent_4Seven]

But can it run original Crysis? Surely it's a much simple question to answer in comparison...

 

[Entroyp]

Why not? I'm sure this demo can run perfectly on an XsX albeit with minor modifications, that being upgrades or downgrades or both.

 

[Captain Hero]

As Epic stated in the interview with Geoff Keighley the demo will run on other systems but with less detail.

My take is that the Series X version could even run at higher resolution than the PS5 one but with less polygonal detail.

yeah that's what I think

 

[TwoDurans]

Company A "We've invented a round hole"
Company B "We have a peg that fits within your round hole"
Games Media "Hey Company A, other companies have holes, including your competitor that makes square holes. Will this fit?"
Company A/B "Um, we're really just walking to show off this awesome peg, that cool? There's plenty of time to talk about other pegs and holes."

Kotaku "STOP THE PRESSES, THEY WON'T TELL US!!!!!!!1!!! OMG, WE MUST POST THIS IMMEDIATELY. GO GO GO. FAN THE FLAMES OF THE CONSOLE WARS, IT GETS US CLICKS!!!!!"

 

[IntentionalPun]

My take is that the Series X version could even run at higher resolution than the PS5 one but with less polygonal detail.

I think this is super likely; and potentially by a significant amount on the polygonal detail, potentially texture detial.

My big question though (broken record scratch):

How big was that demo file size wise? Is that level of detail sustainable for a large game, or is it unreasonable?

I feel like the absolutely insane PS5 SSD is going to be CAPABLE of pushing data around for a game demo that just isn't realistic for a full game. Might be for a fighting game with a few small levels though; or maybe a racing game. It's pretty nuts to think about the amount of data it can throw around and see a demo of it in action; but for a lot of games that might not be realsitic.

Which could mean we'll see lower detail than what we saw for a lot of games.. but perhaps it can actually do that at higher than 30FPS.

Not bad things at all... but I think the very nature of being able to throw around 5.5GB/second of data is that that much data just isn't realistic to sustain.

What sucks is what everyone really wants to know, what would be useful for DEVELOPERS and CONSUMERS to know.. is what is the difference? What would that demo look like at 2.5 GB/second. Instead we are left wondering.. and that feels strange for an engine designed for multi-platform use.

 

[JareBear: Remastered]

"The fidelity seen in the Unreal Engine 5 tech demo is something that people can expect for next gen gaming across devices," a spokesperson for Microsoft told Kotaku in an email. "Developers around the world, including the majority of our 15 Xbox Game Studios teams, are using Unreal Engine to build their future projects. We look forward to partnering with Epic and working closely with Unreal 5 across our development teams when it releases in 2021."

But at no point during the presentation or afterwards did Epic mention the other next-gen console coming this fall, Xbox Series X. When prompted to compare the PS5's capabilities to Microsoft's console during an interview with Geoff Keighley, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney demurred. "We love all our of our babies and we can't make comparisons or pick favorites," he said.

Hopefully MS puts out an XsX version of the demo for all to compare. I would think that would be a good move on their part, considering how hot the UE5 demo is.

 

[GHG]

Hurry up! Post here how the marketing deal is the only reason that they didn't build this demo from ground up for the Glorious Xbox Series X!


Exactly.

Message received and understood just in time:

Sounds like a marketing deal, Sony pays some pennies to talk about software to cover up their hardware disadvantage.

 

[ethomaz]

They also didnt want to talk about PC when pushed. Its a standard marketing deal ffs, honestly some of you lol.

They talked a lot about PC and even made comparisons with PS5.

 

[Bladed Thesis]

Stop it, you Xbox discord troll!!!

Stop quoting the article. We want more warring and fud.

 

[Clear]

Its kinda sad, people should just be looking at the demo as an indication of what PS5 is capable of when running UE5. A situation which pretty handily demolishes the notion that the hardware is graphically underpowered.

Whether XBSX is equal, better, or worse is irrelevant. Let their footage speak for itself, it doesn't have to be a contest. Especially when the most telling difference is likely to be first party/exclusive line-up.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sounds like your standard marketing deal.

Also if Epic hasn't ported the demo to Series X what's MS supposed to do? Break into Epic and steal it?

I understood this reference.

 

[GHG]

Hopefully MS puts out an XsX version of the demo for all to compare. I would think that would be a good move on their part, considering how hot the UE5 demo is.

Has anyone said if there's a reason they opted to do this demo on the PS5 and not on PC or Series X?

 

[GymWolf]

Lol of course it can run on sex, what is this bullshit?

Oh right, a kotaku article...

 

[Captain Hero]

Yep. Also, Sony could have some deal behind the scenes for something yet to be revealed.

It's fun to make jokes about flops and stuff, but a video game console is much more than just raw power.

That could be true too , maybe there is a deal behind that tech demo .

But the the thing is everything will just fade away when games come out to public, then you see no Devs talking about fast SSD or 12TF or praising a tech over another we know all of this is just for marketing.

 

[GHG]

They also didnt want to talk about PC when pushed. Its a standard marketing deal ffs, honestly some of you lol.

Sweeney has been quite vocal when talking about the demo running on PC actually.

 

[Stuart360]

They talked a lot about PC and even made comparisons with PS5.

And they also talked a lot about current gen consoles, and how it would look 'comparable'. Just dont do it to yourselves, its only going to end in tears.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sounds like a marketing deal, Sony pays some pennies to talk about software to cover up their hardware disadvantage.

Software has always been the advantage. Just ask the far less powerful Nintendo that surpassed the overall Xbox sales in only 3 years.

 

[ethomaz]

And they also talked a lot about current gen consoles, and how it would look 'comparable'. Just dont do it to yourselves, its only going to end in tears.

What that even means lol

Nanite is scalable... faster storage speeds = more detail.
It can run even on mobiles with a lot less triangles/details.

 

[Kacho]

Hopefully MS puts out an XsX version of the demo for all to compare. I would think that would be a good move on their part, considering how hot the UE5 demo is.

That's not going to happen with the marketing deal in place.

As stupid as this whole saga is, MS got caught with their pants down and took a massive PR hit. They need to show something impressive and soon. After the early access blowout they did last week I'm beginning to think that team doesn't understand video games at all.

 

[GHG]

That's not going to happen with the marketing deal in place.

As stupid as this whole saga is, MS got caught with their pants down and took a massive PR hit. They need to show something impressive and soon. After the early access blowout they did last week I'm beginning to think that team doesn't understand video games at all.

I really don't understand why they decided to show what they did.

Even a 30 second teaser of one of their first part games actually running on the Series X would have had the potential to save the show.

We didn't even see anything running on the hardware.

 

[TwoDurans]

That's not going to happen with the marketing deal in place.

As stupid as this whole saga is, MS got caught with their pants down and took a massive PR hit. They need to show something impressive and soon. After the early access blowout they did last week I'm beginning to think that team doesn't understand video games at all.

They really don't. With Game Pass and their recent dev purchases MS is in a good position for their launch and beyond. Doing something now comes off as reactionary and defensive when they have nothing to worry about. Xbox will sell. PS5 will sell. Both companies will make billions and we'll all get to play awesome games regardless of what controller we're holding.

Both are going to be awesome, and the thought that this console cycle is won/lost because of this one tech demo is silly.

 

[Kumomeme]

i don't see why it couldn't. the PS5 is the weaker console. the only advantage the PS5 has over XSX is faster SSD speeds and even then the XSX isn't slow.

if anything i'd say the XSX could run it better. maybe that's why they showed it on PS5 because it's the weaker hardware and will be a better example of what to expect since so many games will need to be gimped down to work on PS5.

i doubt ps5 version will be 'gimped down'..this is exeggeration....this is not ps4/x1 situation anymore.....but xsx surely will be better version

 

[Deleted member 471617]

Marketing Deal and not surprised whatsoever. Of course, the demo will run on both consoles. Epic doesn't give a fuck who pays them for their engine as long as they're getting paid.

I am hoping to see them release the demo at year's end for Series X as I would like to see the differences if any.

 

[SplunkyMunkey]

My guess is

PS5
Render 8k assets at a cost of resolution aswell as fast LoDs and go far with it

Series x
Resolution will be higher but asset streaming will be more minimal and the assets will be more 4k and the lods will be lightly less due to the storage speeds

 

[IntentionalPun]

I really don't understand why they decided to show what they did.

Even a 30 second teaser of one of their first part games actually running on the Series X would have had the potential to save the show.

We didn't even see anything running on the hardware.

They are going to do that in July.

All they need to do is wow people before pre-orders are up and not TOTALLY shit the bed marketing wise. That 3rd party showcase was a negative spot but it's certainly recoverable. It's nothing even close to their PR disasters last gen lol

Look at how everyone thought Sony was waiting too long and now a 5 minute prototype of an engine has everyone freaking out and COMPLETELY FORGETTING that Sony hasn't even shown a single game or their console lol. You get your product known, talked about, etc. ahead of time... but nobody can buy these things yet, so the marketing at this point in time isn't THAT important. And we'll see back and forths between Sony/MS just like we have the last 6 months where suddenly MS could be the one that looks better or just as good, etc.

 

[Coloress_Kafka]

Marketing. Marketing. Marketing.

If this was a marketing deal why did Sony totally ignore it? None of their social media pointed towards the announcement, there was no PlayStation blog post, and they didn't even upload the demo to the official PlayStation Youtube channel.

Maybe, just maybe Epic made a demo to show off PS5 because PS4 was the market leader and many people who bought a PS4 might *shockingly* be interested in the PS5

 

[ethomaz]

If this was a marketing deal why did Sony totally ignore it? None of their social media pointed towards the announcement, there was no PlayStation blog post, and they didn't even upload the demo to the official PlayStation Youtube channel.

Maybe, just maybe Epic made a demo to show off PS5 because PS4 was the market leader and many people who bought a PS4 might *shockingly* be interested in the PS5

Or they wanted to best show of Nanite... that was allowed with PS5 right now because PC SSD for that are still some months to release.

 

[IntentionalPun]

If this was a marketing deal why did Sony totally ignore it? None of their social media pointed towards the announcement, there was no PlayStation blog post, and they didn't even upload the demo to the official PlayStation Youtube channel.

Maybe, just maybe Epic made a demo to show off PS5 because PS4 was the market leader and many people who bought a PS4 might *shockingly* be interested in the PS5

The deal is Epic was allowed to associate themselves with the PS5.

And likely were asked not to talk about the demo running anywhere else.

Not a marketing deal; just a deal where Sony had agreed a while ago to let Epic use PS5 to show off their engine, with terms. Seems obvious enough.

I think "agreement" is a better term to guess what went down. Doubt any money was exchanged; but Epic had to get Sony to agree to let them use the PS5 in the first place, as it's all under NDA right now.

 

[MasterCornholio]

As Epic stated in the interview with Geoff Keighley the demo will run on other systems but with less detail.

My take is that the Series X version could even run at higher resolution than the PS5 one but with less polygonal detail.

I also have the theory that people would notice better polygonal detail than an increase in resolution. That could also be a reason.

But we have to wait and see if that's true.

 

[DeepEnigma]

If this was a marketing deal why did Sony totally ignore it? None of their social media pointed towards the announcement, there was no PlayStation blog post, and they didn't even upload the demo to the official PlayStation Youtube channel.

Maybe, just maybe Epic made a demo to show off PS5 because PS4 was the market leader and many people who bought a PS4 might *shockingly* be interested in the PS5

Seems Epic had a pretty significant part in the SSD design on the PS5.

Hmmmm....

How Epic Games moved closer to Sony with the design of the PlayStation 5

Epic Games CEO Tim Sweeney, he waxed on about the power of the PlayStation 5, which is coming this fall at the same time that Microsoft's Xbox Series X.

venturebeat.com

I wonder just how close Epic has been working with Sony on making the PS5. I wonder if Mark Cerny and Tim Sweeney were having plenty of meetings on what exactly the SSD speed should be and what bottlenecks to get rid of.

"We've been working super-closely with Sony for quite a long time on the storage architecture and other elements. It's been our primary focus. But Unreal Engine 5 will be on all next-generation platforms, and so will Fortnite," Sweeney said.

He added, "Sony has done an awesome job of architecting a great system here. It's not just a great GPU, and they didn't just take the latest PC hardware and upgrade to it, following the path of least resistance. The storage architecture in PlayStation 5 is far ahead of anything that you can buy in any PC for any amount of money right now. It's great to see that sort of innovation. It's going to help drive future PCs. They'll see this thing ship and realize, 'Wow, with two SSDs, we'll have to catch up.'"

 

[ethomaz]

Seems Epic had a pretty significant part in the SSD design on the PS5.

It seems like a lot missed the Epic interviews.

 

[CatLady]

Nice, seems the Mods changed the title to a less trolling/clickbait one.

 

[Journey]

Well it is, probably, optimized to PS5..... So... It makes sense that, that demo, can't run on Series X.


However, with optimization, it surely can. If it will run worse or better... only time will tell.

Can this demo run on Xbox Series X? his answer to that was: "We aren't running it on Xbox Series X". Clearly this is a marketing deal to showcase the PS5 and he's not allowed to simply say yes. The fact that he didn't flat out say "No" means that it can.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

i don't see why it couldn't. the PS5 is the weaker console. the only advantage the PS5 has over XSX is faster SSD speeds and even then the XSX isn't slow.

if anything i'd say the XSX could run it better. maybe that's why they showed it on PS5 because it's the weaker hardware and will be a better example of what to expect since so many games will need to be gimped down to work on PS5.

Why would you want to showcase your newest tech in an inferior manner? Dosen't sould like good salesmenship. Maybe it wasnt a smoke screen that the SSD is in fact helping push these HQ assets.