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[AlexxKidd]

It seems Steam is going after what what it defines as games that feature "child exploitation" according to Kotaku. I am not familiar with the titles in question, is this censorship justified? Much like Sony, it is well within Steam's right to censor anything on their platform.

Now, according to some developers, Valve is going after games that feature themes of “child exploitation,” which it seems to define, at least in part, as games with sex scenes or nudity where the characters are in high school.

Over the past few weeks, the company has removed the store pages of several visual novels, including cross-dressing yaoi romance Cross Love, catholic school visual novel Hello Goodbye, “story about the love between siblings” (yuck) Imolicious, and cat girl game MaoMao Discovery Team. The developers of these games all claim to have received similar emails stating that their games could not be released on Steam.

It goes on...

“While we can ship most titles on Steam, we found that this one does feature themes of child exploitation,” read the email received by Top Hat Studios, makers of Cross Love. “Because of that, the app has been banned and cannot be reused.”

There are a couple ties that bind the games in question: 1) Cross Love, Hello Goodbye, and Imolicious feature school settings, and 2) all four of the aforementioned games contain adult elements and center around anime-styled characters who appear young—in some cases uncomfortably so

Finally...

However, their developers have taken to protesting the bans on social media, saying that their games have been misunderstood. They all claim they’ve reached out to Valve since receiving their bans, only to be met with silence.

 

[FranXico]

Legally, they absolutely have the right to curate their content in any way they see fit.

Morally, censorship of any kind is a slippery slope. And it seems we are just starting to slip...

 

[kevm3]

I don't see any problem with this

 

[Vawn]

As much as I'musually aagainst censorship, this is an exception. Making what clearly looks like an 11 year-old girl, some sort of 100 year-old magical being, is not an acceptable loophole for fulfilling child porn fetishes.

This is why I think the whole Sony censorship outrage is mostly out of control. The majority of what Sont wants to ban are Japanese games that fall under this category. They're not censoring GTA's banging of prostitutes, etc. They're banning the games where you are sexual toward what clearly look like very young girls.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Didn´t Valve recently said that they are opening the flood gates and that every develooper known to man can publish their game on Steam, regardless of content? Or did I just dream that?

 

[Helios]

Didn´t Valve recently said that they are opening the flood gates and that every develooper known to man can publish their game on Steam, regardless of content? Or did I just dream that?

They had a very ambiguous "no trolling" rule which I'm going to guess is what they use to remove stuff like this.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Didn´t Valve recently said that they are opening the flood gates and that every develooper known to man can publish their game on Steam, regardless of content? Or did I just dream that?

Any social site will be open flood gates for sake of getting as many users as possible.

But once it hits a certain point where they think they've hit a critical mass, they'll curate and inject the policies. No holds barred FB and Twitter are no different. I never heard about any permabans of anti-hate sites or accounts when those sites were growing exponentially.

 

[RedVIper]

As much as I'musually aagainst censorship, this is an exception. Making what clearly looks like an 11 year-old girl, some sort of 100 year-old magical being, is not an acceptable loophole for fulfilling child porn fetishes.

This is why I think the whole Sony censorship outrage is mostly out of control. The majority of what Sont wants to ban are Japanese games that fall under this category. They're not censoring GTA's banging of prostitutes, etc. They're banning the games where you are sexual toward what clearly look like very young girls.

They're drawings, I don't like this type of game, or anime for that matter, but making a distintion between a 20 year old and a 16 year old in this type of art style sounds awfully hard.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

They're drawings, I don't like this type of game, or anime for that matter, but making a distintion between a 20 year old and a 16 year old in this type of art style sounds awfully hard.

And for some of these trashy anime upskirt games, the context of the material makes it even worse.

Someone will say.... that anime character is actually 40 years old. Don't worry about the squeally voice or young looking graphics. The game dev says her bio states she's 40.

Well, if she and the others are 40, then why the hell is the game taking place in a high school and all of them are wearing private school outfits sticking their asses right into the screen?

 

[DeepEnigma]

This is probbaly going to be a ripple effect across most platforms. Sony, now Steam. No platform with be safe from this if this gains steam (pun intended).

 

[ShirAhava]

This realistic depiction of a teenage girl being murdered to death over and over seems so much worst than "they look young these anime girls ain't kosher hurr durr"

 

[RedVIper]

And for some of these trashy anime upskirt games, the context of the material makes it even worse.

Someone will say.... that anime character is actually 40 years old. Don't worry about the squeally voice or young looking graphics. The game dev says her bio states she's 40.

Well, if she and the others are 40, then why the hell is the game taking place in a high school and all of them are wearing private school outfits sticking their asses right into the screen?

I'm not particularly against this policy or advocating for it, I just think it will be nearly impossible to distinguish what a teenager looks like from a young adult, and I'm not sure steam knows how to distinguish between them either.

 

[FranXico]

This is why I think the whole Sony censorship outrage is mostly out of control. The majority of what Sont wants to ban are Japanese games that fall under this category. They're not censoring GTA's banging of prostitutes, etc. They're banning the games where you are sexual toward what clearly look like very young girls.

They also imposed changes (i.e., blocked certain swimsuits) on DOAX3, and people are also skeptical about Catherine: Full Body now.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

This realistic depiction of a teenage girl being murdered to death over and over seems so much worst than "they look young these anime girls ain't kosher hurr durr"

Big difference is anime upskirt games is basically sex and jerking off to underage looking material. It's a big no-no in western countries. In Japan, nobody cares. Don't they allow vending machines to sell used underwear? Or is that a myth?

As for violence, it's much more accepted. Even violence towards teenagers is done in movies.

But when was the last time you saw underage looking school kids having sex in movies or tv shows? or at minimum flashing their panties or shiving their ass into the screen for a close up?

 

[ROMhack]

This realistic depiction of a teenage girl being murdered to death over and over seems so much worst than "they look young these anime girls ain't kosher hurr durr"

My reaction to this video is that it's gruesome and uncomfortable. The games in discussion are trying to appeal with sexualised content which is the problem.

 

[Sub_Level]

This doesnt really matter on PC. Developers have endless distribution options to sell their product, including hosting their product on their own website and selling directly to the customer.

 

[Alexios]

This realistic depiction of a teenage girl being murdered to death over and over seems so much worst than "they look young these anime girls ain't kosher hurr durr"

I mean, the goal is to avoid that happening in the game, not exactly the same as some hentai shit where the goal is to bone the kid who also happens to be your little sister or something.

 

[TLZ]

These girls always look like they're around 10 years old, but somehow have very mature figures,, are very skimpy, and act and talk like they're 20.

 

[Fbh]

Can't say I'm against this but this being Valve they'll probably change their stance in 6 months and then again in a year

This realistic depiction of a teenage girl being murdered to death over and over seems so much worst than "they look young these anime girls ain't kosher hurr durr"

For starters it's not even a PC game so it's unrelated to Steam.
But more importantly, what's being shown there is actually a scenario you try to avoid and the intent of the game is to show it as something horrible.
Compare that to the games affected by this where getting the girls into sexually suggestive scenarios is not just encouraged but in many cases the actual goal of the game

 

[Danjin44]

My question is who are they censoring this for? People who are not interested in this type of game will not buy it regardless its censored or not and the few people who are interested in this already very niche game will not get it because its censored. They just basically sending it to die.

 

[Alexios]

My question is who are they censoring this for? People who are not interested in this type of game will not buy it regardless its censored or not and the few people who are interested in this already very niche game will not get it because its censored. They just basically sending it to die.

What got censored?

 

[Danjin44]

What got censored?

I'm mostly talking about overall Sony or steam censoring policy. Also my mistake this topic is about completely banning the entire game.

 

[Kenpachii]

Didn´t Valve recently said that they are opening the flood gates and that every develooper known to man can publish their game on Steam, regardless of content? Or did I just dream that?

Go post child porn anywhere and you get banned or even governments hunting you down. That these pedo's in japan find this perfectly acceptable and there government doesn't care for shit. That's there problem. Get outside japan and cultures won't deal with this garbage even remotely let alone the west.

 

[danielberg]

Hmm depends on what the game actually depicts.
I for example wonder if sony will censor the last of us 2 children kissing scene its more than any anime game dares on the platform, but for some reason i suspect they will stick with just censoring games like Catharine.

 

[CatCouch]

I just think there should be some public statement about where the line is. It's fine not to have sexual content with minors on the platform but they need to define what that is. I see people arguing Catherine has characters that look like minors. Better definitions and not just open interpretation would go a long way in ending confusion and witch hunts that start targeting things that should not be issues at all.

 

[michaelius]

If those games are bordering on paedophilia then I'm fine with it since we are talking about illegal and disgusting content.

Generally I feel that it would be much better if makers of those games moved into final year of high school or college settings where we are talking about 18+ characters - so something looking more like Bible Black (which was legal and distributed in many countries) than 1000 year old loli dragons or cat girls.

This is completly diffrent case then Sony going after Dead or Alive Extreme 3 or Katherine.

 

[Danjin44]

Hmm depends on what the game actually depicts.
I for example wonder if sony will censor the last of us 2 children kissing scene its more than any anime game dares on the platform, but for some reason i suspect they will stick with just censoring games like Catharine.

I hope not. I will be devastated if Catherine Full Body get censored.

 

[danielberg]

I hope not. I will be devastated if Catherine Full Body get censored.

You are already late judging by the "we go as far as we can under sonys new rules" statement which basically is a admission to self censorship to avoid sony being a pain in the ass.
There is a reason why sony doesnt want devs to say publicly if they censor or not, its bad pr.

 

[ROMhack]

My question is who are they censoring this for? People who are not interested in this type of game will not buy it regardless its censored or not and the few people who are interested in this already very niche game will not get it because its censored. They just basically sending it to die.

I imagine the only reason is because they don't want their brand attacked for allowing it. Unless you know somebody high up at Valve is a puritan.

You are already late judging by the "we go as far as we can under sonys new rules" statement which basically is a admission to self censorship to avoid sony being a pain in the ass.
There is a reason why sony doesnt want devs to say publicly if they censor or not, its bad pr.

I think it's worth drawing a difference between Catherine and these types of games. Catherine has a lot of sexual content but it works alongside the overall point of the story which is to focus on its protag's inability to choose between copious amounts of sexy sex or a long-lasting relationship with his partner. It's one of the few games I've seen use adultery (and ergo sex) in a smart, truthful way. You would think Sony might like to be associated with that type of mature experience.

 

[Danjin44]

You are already late judging by the "we go as far as we can under sonys new rules" statement which basically is a admission to self censorship to avoid sony being a pain in the ass.
There is a reason why sony doesnt want devs to say publicly if they censor or not, its bad pr.

 

[Spukc]

good fuck that shit

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I imagine the only reason is because they don't want their brand attacked for allowing it. Unless you know somebody high up at Valve is a puritan.

Yup.

It's like Walmart not allowing Playboy mags. They can put it up on the highest hidden shelf, so only adults who are clever enough to know about it can buy it.

But Walmart still doesn't want to be associated with sex mags and the poor image it represents for the mass appeal it tries to convey for shoppers.

 

[Alexios]

Hmm depends on what the game actually depicts.
I for example wonder if sony will censor the last of us 2 children kissing scene its more than any anime game dares on the platform, but for some reason i suspect they will stick with just censoring games like Catharine.

Wut? How's that at all comparable to what this thread discusses? Yeah, I'd hope that if someone at ND thought to have those little girls fisting each other in the game that indeed it got denied by ND and Sony (and he was sent to seek professional help). That scene as it is, is no different or less sweet to Anna Chlumsky kissing Macaulay Culkin in My Girl (1991, both were little kids), what do you take issue with there to equate it on any level? Another guy said the same here, is it a meme or something, I don't get what's with all these comparisons to irrelevant things...

 

[ROMhack]

Yup.

It's like Walmart not allowing Playboy mags. They can put it up on the highest hidden shelf, so only adults who are clever enough to know about it can buy it.

But Walmart still doesn't want to be associated with sex mags and the poor image it represents for the mass appeal it tries to convey for shoppers.

Wouldn't it be good though if Walmart just had butt neked people fornicating by the entrance. Would really be a winner from a business perspective.

Disclaimer: I'm being really disingenuous before somebody takes issue.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Wouldn't it be good though if Walmart just had butt neked people fornicating by the entrance. Would really be a winner from a business perspective.

Disclaimer: I'm being really disingenuous before somebody takes issue.

That is going to be a no from me dawg!

 

[JunkerWoland]

Situations such as this and Steam's quasi-crusade against visual novels from earlier in the year are reasons why I've long felt makers of visual novels and erotic titles should first looks towards other platforms to sell their games, like JAST, DLsite, MangaGamer, Denpasoft, and now FAKKU. Sure, none of them have the brand recognition and high visibility as Steam, but looking long term, it seems a better strategy to try and build a consumer-base on welcoming platforms.

 

[danielberg]

Wut? How's that at all comparable to what this thread discusses?

That scene is no different or less sweet to Anna Chlumsky kissing Macaulay Culkin in My Girl (1991, both were little kids), what do you take issue with there to equate it on any level?

Yes and now do the same scene in a anime artstyle and you get banned do you get it yet? But anyway I dont take issue with steam or consoles banning obvious underage smut.
But I do take issue with for example sony being selective about censorship with the sole difference being if its a western or weeb game, for example you have strip clubs and hookers in gta, sex in mass effect, witcher 3 and basically any edgy western game that goes farther than any anime game dares on the platform, now do the exact same scenes in a anime artstyle and you have sony on your back demanding censorship because sony hq is now located in cali, kingdom of jealous fat pink haired sjw third wave feminists or they want to look good for Olympics or whatever the excuse next week will be.
This is what i am talking about selective picking and choosing between western big sellers and smaller easier bullied games, steam is more or less ok right now.

 

[Alexios]

Maybe you should give an example of where that happened (with a similar intent as Last of Us rather than have it and much more sexual things happen constantly throughout a game with little else going on in it beyond scenes like it or scenes meant to lead to it and much beyond it) and it was banned for that scene alone, rather than imagine it might happen. I mean, the OP title talks about "sex games", I don't think TLOU or The Witcher 3 qualify as "sex games" just because they may involve sex at one point or another (and an innocent kiss by two girls or a boy and a girl is not sex). Same as I don't think an anime styled game will qualify as a "sex game" if it actually isn't one.

 

[Danjin44]

Yes and now do the same scene in a anime artstyle and you get banned do you get it yet? But anyway I dont take issue with steam or consoles banning obvious underage smut.
But I do take issue with for example sony being selective about censorship with the sole difference being if its a western or weeb game, for example you have strip clubs and hookers in gta, sex in mass effect, witcher 3 and basically any edgy western game that goes farther than any anime game dares on the platform, now do the exact same scenes in a anime artstyle and you have sony on your back demanding censorship because sony hq is now located in cali, kingdom of jealous fat pink haired sjw third wave feminists or they want to look good for Olympics or whatever the excuse next day is.
This is what i am talking about, steam is more or less ok right now.

100% agree with you. it basically double standard, you can have all sex and nudity as long as it has realistic graphics. If Mass effect had anime artstyle I bet you anything all sex scenes would have been censored.

 

[Pantz]

Not into these games but considering killing children in games is mostly a taboo, I can understand why some platforms would be nervous of games like these too.

Personally I don't see a correlation between anime characters and real life humans. They don't even look human to me so the age stuff doesn't even seem realistic, plus they're basically drawings. I don't get it why they are criticized so hard even when they are games clearly of legal age. Then again, I've never been attracted to anime or drawings, other than the pure eye candy of it, so maybe I can't relate.

I hope sometime in the future a secure/centralized platform will come out that supports all AO rated games and content so long as they are legal to exist and own.

 

[danielberg]

Maybe you should give an example of where that happened, with a similar intent rather than have it and much more, happen constantly throughout a game with little else going on in it, and it was banned for the scene, rather than imagine it might happen. I mean, the OP title talks about "sex games".

I already did catherine is a adult game with 2 or 3 sexscenes already more tame than anything you see in the witcher3 guess which game will have to walk on egg shells in terms of depicting sexuality? The "new" cathrine? or The next gta? or cyberpunk? Do you think hookers and strip clubs will be banned in the next gta? Of course not cause rockstar brings in the cash and they would just go "ok then we dont release on your platform lol" same with cyberpunk i can already bet money that it has more explicit sex scenes than anything Catharine will have. Dont be daft.

 

[Alexios]

Steam banned or censored Catherine for depicting underage girls in sexual situations? What? News to me. Catherine has nothing to do with this thread as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Danjin44]

Steam/Sony banned Catherine for depicting underage girls in sexual situations? What? News to me.

There is a big chance of Catherine Full Body might gets censored because Sony's policy.

 

[Alexios]

There is a big chance of Catherine Full Body might gets censored because Sony's policy.

I know, I just don't think that policy has anything to do with this thread? Catherine didn't have underage-looking stuff in it, no? It's the whole idea of sexual encounters in that case that phased Sony which is a different topic, no? Catherine fits with the DOA situation in the case of Sony, not this one. Equating those games in their defense with "sex games" that depict underage persons works against them, not for... Personally I'm sure Catherine would have been allowed on Steam had it been a PC game. As long as people didn't tell Steam that if they allow that they should also allow the underage sex games...

I will defend Catherine all you want, I won't however defend sex games with underage girls, ever. It's a pretty clear difference, there's no "slippery slope" or anything like that with these.

 

[ROMhack]

Guys I think the Sony censorship debate is leading you astray. Sony is weird about general sexual content but this one seems to be a sex + age issue.

'Valve is going after games that feature themes of “child exploitation,” which it seems to define, at least in part, as games with sex scenes or nudity where the characters are in high school.'

I think it's more understandable and shouldn't be lumped in with Sony's goal to be the biggest prude in the room.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Guys I think the Sony censorship debate is leading you astray. Sony is weird about general sexual content but this one seems to be a sex + age issue.

'Valve is going after games that feature themes of “child exploitation,” which it seems to define, at least in part, as games with sex scenes or nudity where the characters are in high school.'

I think it's more understandable and shouldn't be lumped in with Sony's goal to be the biggest prude in the room.

It sounds like splitting hairs to me...

 

[danielberg]

Guys I think the Sony censorship debate is leading you astray. Sony is weird about general sexual content but this one seems to be a sex + age issue.

'Valve is going after games that feature themes of “child exploitation,” which it seems to define, at least in part, as games with sex scenes or nudity where the characters are in high school.'

I think it's more understandable and shouldn't be lumped in with Sony's goal to be the biggest prude in the room.

Yeah you are right, this is about steam doing what makes sense not about sony being dumb.

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah you are right, this is about steam doing what makes sense not about sony being dumb.

Times like this makes me glad Shin Megami Tensei V is not coming out on PS4.

 

[CatCouch]

I know, I just don't think that policy has anything to do with this thread? Catherine didn't have underage-looking stuff in it, no? It's the whole idea of sexual encounters in that case that phased Sony which is a different topic, no? Catherine fits with the DOA situation in the case of Sony, not this one. Equating those games in their defense with "sex games" that depict underage persons works against them, not for... Personally I'm sure Catherine would have been allowed on Steam had it been a PC game. As long as people didn't tell Steam that if they allow that they should also allow the underage sex games...

I will defend Catherine all you want, I won't however defend sex games with underage girls, ever. It's a pretty clear difference, there's no "slippery slope" or anything like that with these.

Yeah, I don't think there's any chance Steam would have a problem with Catherine if it were presented to them. Sony is doing something else entirely since there are no sex games on a Sony platform, only censored VN's if they ever had sex scenes. DOA has no sex or nudity and it's still censored so Sony is not arguing any legal stuff like Steam probably is.

The underage character thing needs a definition, though. You can be 18 and in High School so banning anything High School wouldn't quite work. How do you determine if a character stated to be 18 or older looks underage? Can you tell the difference between a 17 and 18 year old cartoon character?

There's a lot of grey area here that needs addressing and I don't want it being filtered through sites like Kotaku. Don't forget that Schreier once argued that the Sorceresses from Dragon's Crown was a lolicon fantasy and it would be devastating to games with sexual content if that was considered an issue. I don't want to see this turn into a "all anime is underage" thing, which it easily could.

Steam should require all characters involved in sexual situations be listed as 18 or older in game or something.

 

[Alexios]

I know it's going to be tricky to identify things properly in cases but it's better to ban more games than they should than allow horrible "games" that they totally shouldn't without regard because money or something. Developers should make sure not to tread so closely to the line and fans would have no problem with that or call it censorship if the line wasn't what interested them in the first place I'd think...

They could also accept discussions over certain games so they can see it from a different perspective and allow it for its merits, without having everyone tell them they should also allow all they banned before. There certainly could be some amazing thought provoking VN that does at first glance, if someone just sends a screenshot of the deed, appear to depict something bannable, but all the content surrounding said depiction could have a whole different purpose like bringing a dark yet very real situation to the surface to be discussed and acted against or something, so it should be examined closely in that case and treated differently to random hentai dating sim.