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Laserdisc 2 vs Laserdisc 3

Stinkles said:
Really? You really can't believe that? So by that logic, you drive a Maybach then?
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HD video is a premium over DVD as far as I'm concerned, and it has been created to co-exist with DVD for quite some time.

To say you want said premium, but want to skimp on the price, is the same as buying a Mustang instead of an Aston Martin or a TVR. IMO, it defeats the entire fucking purpose.
 
Someone let me know when the SED HDTVs are shown. All of these updated LCD and plasma screens are gonna be toast when the SEDs come out :D
 
Blu-ray's major advantage over HD-DVD is that the technology to do rewritable discs exists now. Who really cares about fancy menus and what not? BD also has greater storage capacity but it remains to be seen if it makes a real difference in terms of video and/or audio quality. Obviously you can store more extra material on BD but it's nothing that an extra HD-DVD disc won't make up for.

As long as the full potential of Blu-ray isn't exposed to consumers I think it's very reasonable to look at the price of the products. Toshiba delivered on its promise of making a cheap HD-DVD player. Launch BD players are lacking to say the least.
 
teepo said:
wow, a pioneer elite unit costing 1800 dollars. that is unheard off. ps3 is easily going to be 800.
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I guess that's sarcasm ;) But for comparison's sake, Pioneer has launched DVD players in the Elite range before for well over $1000, and their flagship still actually MSRPs at $1000.
 
teepo said:
wow, a pioneer elite unit costing 1800 dollars. that is unheard off. ps3 is easily going to be 800.
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Yeah but bear in mind it has many unique features like wireless media connectivity and audio extras that you dont normally get. So for Pioneer the price is actually good.
 
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released. I remember a few of my friends parents buying a PS2 because it was the cheapest DVD player out, playing games on it was a plus for them.
 
We're not talking about a price range of $60 to $20,000 here, we're talking about a range $900+ and I'm only concerned with the low end so I'm getting a ps3 or a player when they drop to the $200 range.

Can't wait till something else is announced, this br-hd stuff is getting old.
 
sportzhead said:
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released. I remember a few of my friends parents buying a PS2 because it was the cheapest DVD player out, playing games on it was a plus for them.
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well, according to this:

wikipedia said:
By the spring of 1999 the price of a DVD player had dropped below the $300 US mark. At that point Wal-Mart began to offer DVD players for sale in its stores. When Wal-Mart began selling DVDs in their stores, DVDs represented only a small part of their video inventory; VHS tapes of movies made up the remainder.
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not that much ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvd#History
 
sportzhead said:
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released.
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Budget players were just starting to come out when PS2 was launched.
 
sportzhead said:
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released. I remember a few of my friends parents buying a PS2 because it was the cheapest DVD player out, playing games on it was a plus for them.
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You can find DVD players for under 200 when PS2 was released. Ps2 was still a great deal at the time since it was also a gaming machine.

edit: Which is why these blue ray prices seem so strange to me. If they aren't being marked up A LOT in price (like 10X cost) then I'm not sure the PS3 will be able to launch any time soon. A subsidy can't cover that huge a difference.
 
dorio said:
We're not talking about a price range of $60 to $20,000 here, we're talking about a range $900+ and I'm only concerned with the low end so I'm getting a ps3 or a player when they drop to the $200 range.
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You're betting PS3 will be $900+?
 
sportzhead said:
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released. I remember a few of my friends parents buying a PS2 because it was the cheapest DVD player out, playing games on it was a plus for them.
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Of course more expensive than now. But you could get a good one for 200USD when PS2 was released in NA, dunno about the prices in Japan March 2000. I got my region modded Pioneer for 400USD back in 1999.
 
sportzhead said:
If I'm not mistaken, weren’t stand alone DVD player pretty expensive when the PS2 was released. I remember a few of my friends parents buying a PS2 because it was the cheapest DVD player out, playing games on it was a plus for them.
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Are you high? It was twice as much as a good brand DVD player with lots of features. It was a bargain because it had a PS2 built in.

In Japan, it was a different story - DVD hadn't taken off the way it had here, but was primed for success - PS2 accelerated that.
 
The format war is long since over. It was decided by the studios last year. Content is on BD, end of story. The people saying they'll support HD-DVD are either gluttons for punishment, wealthy idjits, liars just stirring the shit, or some combination of the three. Go ahead and buy an HD-DVD player. Just remember to videotape the moment of regret when you've bought a $500 Betamax360. :lol

That said, I think it's pretty fucking stupid to buy any of these BD drives too. They're either too expensive, or castrated functionally. 1080p should be standard on all BD drives...PERI-fucking-OD. This is just plain stupid not to have, HDTV penetration or not. I thought DVD and LD drives first hit that market that high. So did DVD and CD burners IIRC. Hell, remember the days of $1000 4GB hard drives? It's just never justified IMO. Wait a year for the prices to come crashing down. The PC drives will be the cheapest first, though you'll need a good PC to run the movies well. In that time, you'll be able to wait for content, and for studios to re-release 2006 videos in limited edition ripoff packs.

I'm not getting either format. I have an SDTV. I will be getting a PS3, though ($400 tops) and then hooking it up to a HDTV once 1080p sets drop below the $1500 level. That's the only BD player I'll have until some Chinese gangsters start putting out sub-$200 devices sometime in like 2007. I am so not an early-adopter. PEACE.
 
damisa said:
You can find DVD players for under 200 when PS2 was released. Ps2 was still a great deal at the time since it was also a gaming machine.

edit: Which is why these blue ray prices seem so strange to me. If they aren't being marked up A LOT in price (like 10X cost) then I'm not sure the PS3 will be able to launch any time soon. A subsidy can't cover that huge a difference.
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PS2 was one of the cheapest DVD players, if not the cheapest, when it released in Japan. And it cost like $380US at that time, so do the Math. Prices dropped significantly that year, and you could easily find a sub-$200 for the US when the PS2 landed here. PEACE.
 
dorio said:
No, my point was about the standalone players.
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Yes, but PS3 cannot be ignored if comparing available players. There will be a cheap Blu-ray player out in the first half of this year, that is my only point. These $1000+ players are covering the high end of the market that is more likely to adopt a new format first in the first place, but the other end of the market WILL also be covered (and PS3 probably won't be alone for too long from this perspective).
 
Pimpwerx said:
I'm not getting either format. I have an SDTV. I will be getting a PS3, though ($400 tops) and then hooking it up to a HDTV once 1080p sets drop below the $1500 level. That's the only BD player I'll have until some Chinese gangsters start putting out sub-$200 devices sometime in like 2007. I am so not an early-adopter. PEACE.
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Has it been confirmed that the ps3 will playback 1080p movies, if so then I don't see why hardly anyone would buy those standalone players that are twice the price and limited to a lower resolution. Again, things aren't adding up.
 
http://www.novalux.com/company/press.php?release=5

NOVALUX DELIVERS HIGH-POWER, BLUE, SOLID-STATE LIGHT SOURCES TO CONSUMER ELECTRONICS PARTNERS

SUNNYVALE, Calif., November 7, 2005 – Novalux, Inc., developer of Novalux Extended Cavity Surface Emitting Laser (NECSEL™) technology, announced today that it has delivered high-power, blue, solid-state lighting prototypes to key consumer electronics partners. The NECSEL™ solid-state light sources have been designed to increase performance and reduce cost of microdisplay-based devices, including home theater front projectors and rear-projection TVs.

“The NECSEL-460-500, our first blue laser aimed at the microdisplay market, compliments the green NECSEL prototypes currently under evaluation by consumer electronics manufacturers,” said Greg Niven, vice president of marketing for Novalux. “Our next step is to make available even higher power devices along with a red NECSEL source. Once combined into a single, RGB, solid-state light source, our NECSEL lasers significantly enhance display performance and enable simpler light engine architectures. They are the key to displacing the UHP lamps currently in use for microdisplay illumination.”

Novalux’s prototype blue NECSEL device emits over 500 mW at 460 nm—the “true blue” coveted by display manufacturers. It is housed in a revolutionary package smaller than a matchbox. All NECSEL sources produce color-saturated output, allowing them to reach a larger color space than competitive lighting technologies. They are also wavelength selectable, so integrators can create multi-primary laser displays that include colors such as cyan. Moreover, NECSEL sources provide bright, speckle-free output, resulting in clear, vibrant images unattainable by any other lighting technology. Other advantages include long lifetime, instant-on, low étendue and low cost integration.

Novalux will demonstrate its NECSEL light sources in a prototype rear-projection TV during the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, Nevada, January 5-8, 2006. “We are planning to show the first laser-based rear-projection TV ever at CES 2006,” said Niven, “This initial prototype TV demonstrates our ability to dramatically increase display performance. The images are bright and the color is true-to-life. All this combined with a simpler, compact, lower-cost light engine reinforces our belief that NECSEL technology will change the paradigm for panel illumination.”
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This product is a solid-state replacement for the light bulbs used in Front and Rear Projection TVs (3LCDs, DLPs, LCOS, SXRD, you name it)...it is a laser light source and here are some of its benefits over regular projector TV bulbs

http://www.novalux.com/display/solidstatergb.php

MORE THAN TWICE THE COLOR OF NTSC

Highly saturated primaries allow greater color space than can be reached by UHP lamps or LEDs. This means an image unmatched in its lifelike color.

NECSEL™ SOLID-STATE LIGHTING ADVANTAGES

NECSEL-based solid-state light sources provide unmatched benefits over competing technologies. Our sources are:

BRIGHT
What if you had 1,000 lumens available for your RPTV? NECSEL sources do just that. They provide more nits and lower screen gains—the result is a brighter picture than ever before no matter what the viewing angle.

COLORFUL
NECSEL sources project saturated RGB primaries directly onto the microdisplay, resulting in a bright, colorful, true-to-life pictures. And since NECSEL devices are wavelength tunable, future plans for multi-primary products beyond RGB are well within reach.

RELIABLE
The solid-state nature of our technology means it’s inherently more reliable than legacy UHP lamps. NECSEL sources are cooler, more durable and easier to handle. And rather than consider our light source “failed” when it falls to 50% of its original light output (the standard for UHP lamps and LEDs), our devices provide over 20,000 hours at 100% power output.

AFFORDABLE
Our platform reduces light engine cost on several levels:

* NECSEL light sources are more affordable than current pricing of UHP lamps.

* Our sources enable simpler, smaller, less costly light engines. With DLP™ systems, our technology eliminates the need for a color wheel, light tunnel and relay optics. For 3LCD engines, we eliminate the polarizers, color filters, turning mirrors and fly eye lenses.

* They enable less costly microdisplay panels. Our sources project all of their light onto even the smallest microdisplays without a reduction in coupling efficiency. Reducing microdisplay size reduces their cost.

* Our low étendue sources emit at narrow angles, allowing simpler, more affordable projection optics.


CHARACTERISTICS OF NOVALUX NECSEL ARRAY

Brightness > 105 W/mm2Steridian
Polarized Output? Yes
Electrical to Optical Efficiency > 15%
Lifetime > 20,000 hours at 100% light output
Output Lumens > 1000
Screen Gain Low (typical 1-2)
Instant On/Off? Yes
Color Gamut > 200% of NTSC
Click to expand...

So again, this new laser light source can be used in regular RPTVs or FPTVs, last more than ten times longer than a UHP bulbs and have 100% performance over that lifetime, compared to a UHP which has ~50% of its total light performance after 2000 hours, it has a super wide Color Gamut, can be turned on instantly(like a light switch) unlike the regular bulbs in projection TVs than can take a minute or two to warm up...

Best of all, according to this whitepaper:

http://www.novalux.com/assets/downloads/NECSEL_Arrays_Apps.pdf


The cost of the NECSEL bulb will be less than $80 USD, a fraction of the traditional UHP bulb or even an LED light source...

novalux.jpg


oleint2_116-04.gif


33-08-L2000-Novalux.jpg
 
BlueTsunami said:
Are the Elite series really worth the price?
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Well that depends but they are nearly always one of the absolute best products on the market. For high end users as its priced as such. Very feature packed and up to date with al the new stuff and at quality too. This new Blu ray player has wireless connectivity(media link with pc's) for example and killer audio features to go along with what already were high on everyones agenda :)
 
gofreak said:
Yes, but PS3 cannot be ignored if comparing available players. There will be a cheap Blu-ray player out in the first half of this year, that is my only point. These $1000+ players are covering the high end of the market that is more likely to adopt a new format first in the first place, but the other end of the market WILL also be covered (and PS3 probably won't be alone for too long from this perspective).
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Yes, but my point is that its hard to believe that there won't be a inexpensive standalone unit that covers the low end.
 
dorio said:
Has it been confirmed that the ps3 will playback 1080p movies
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Yes.

"PS3 supports high quality display in resolution of 1080p(*) as standard,"

It's listed under the specs too, for AV out.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/050517e.pdf

There will be a market for the other players, though (however small it may seem to you). Some people, I'm sure wouldn't fathom installing a PS3 as their main player in a home theatre!

dorio said:
Yes, but my point is that its hard to believe that there won't be a inexpensive standalone unit that covers the low end.
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They won't be far behind PS3, if they are at all, of that I've little doubt. I'm fairly sure you'll see others by the end of the year.
 
dorio said:
Has it been confirmed that the ps3 will playback 1080p movies, if so then I don't see why hardly anyone would buy those standalone players that are twice the price and limited to a lower resolution. Again, things aren't adding up.
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Um...yes? They certainly made a point of putting it in their slides. I would be suprised if it could output 1080p for games and not for movies. PEACE.
 
dorio said:
Yes, but my point is that its hard to believe that there won't be a inexpensive standalone unit that covers the low end.
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There wont be low end for some time. First wait for the high end to disperse. By that time 1080p screens will be cheaper and better too.
 
dorio said:
Has it been confirmed that the ps3 will playback 1080p movies, if so then I don't see why hardly anyone would buy those standalone players that are twice the price and limited to a lower resolution. Again, things aren't adding up.
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What I actually don't understand is that the audio and video is purely digital from the HDMI. So what are really the differences between all of these lplayers, isn't the content exactly the same because of the digital nature?
 
dorio said:
Has it been confirmed that the ps3 will playback 1080p movies, if so then I don't see why hardly anyone would buy those standalone players that are twice the price and limited to a lower resolution. Again, things aren't adding up.
Click to expand...

The reason could be that a stand alone player is just of a higher quality for BRD movies. Just like a standalone DVD player is much better than a PS2 or Xbox for playing DVD's.
 
Pimpwerx said:
That's the only BD player I'll have until some Chinese gangsters start putting out sub-$200 devices sometime in like 2007. I am so not an early-adopter. PEACE.
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Yeah, when is the $200 Apex BD/HD-DVD combo player coming out at Walmart. Apex was my first foray into DVD 5+ years ago, so I'll need some cheap Chinese manufacturer to do the equivalent now.
 
dorio said:
Insert retard sku joke here. But seriously, why pay more to get less.
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From a movie playback point of view, it may be arguable. Some people can be EXCEPTIONALLY snobbish about these things. And these players will also have the market to themselves, likely for a couple months anyway.

If even the ultra-high-end adopters start buying PS3s instead, you'll see the prices change. But I think they'll be supported, initially at least.
 
hadareud said:
The reason could be that a stand alone player is just of a higher quality for BRD movies. Just like a standalone DVD player is much better than a PS2 or Xbox for playing DVD's.
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Really, was there a qualitative difference in image quality in similar priced standalone units? I preferred standalone simply because of the convenience of not having to walk up to the console to turn it on.
 
Thanks for the correction guys.

I believe Sony will take a hit and release the PS3 at $399. They will then flood the market with Sony BRD movies and make back the difference.

Edit- How much are these BRD going to cost? I believe that is the biggest factor facing this whole "format war".
 
Post away any new tv model news as I very curious to see if 2006 models will be a large improvement for washed out looking DLP sets or if they are finally getting CRT black and color levels in them. Since I can only afford to upgrade every 7 years it be interesting to see its best wait till 07. These SEDS models also sound interesting, I hope we can reach plateau though I hate for this turn into the pc video card market :)
 
madara said:
Post away any new tv model news as I very curious to see if 2006 models will be a large improvement for washed out looking DLP sets or if they are finally getting CRT black and color levels in them. Since I can only afford to upgrade every 7 years it be interesting to see its best wait till 07. These SEDS models also sound interesting, I hope we can reach plateau though I hate for this turn into the pc video card market :)
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hp has a lcd with wifi coming, plasmas with 10000:1 contrast claimed, and an interesting dlp with no color wheel (and hence no rainbows) that takes 1080p over vga, component and hdmi

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2006/ces/entertainment.html
 
sportzhead said:
Edit- How much are these BRD going to cost? I believe that is the biggest factor facing this whole "format war".
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No word yet. Maybe tomorrow at the BDA presentation. Might be down to whether the HD-DVD camp announce pricing today. A premium over DVD is a given, of course.
 
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