Support NeoGAF

[Byakuya769]

1.) Ouch.
2.) This is somewhat true. I've seen it go both ways. I'm honestly impressed by some of the older people in my class who have really cool experiences that make them genuinely better informed. However, the other group is the people who assume their experience makes anyone who disagrees with them wrong, despite having absolutely no relevance to the topic at hand. These people are idiots.

"You sir are NOT a small business owner!"

 

[RandomDancing]

K to JD students aren't all bad, but perhaps I'm biased considering I am one. I definitely think students who came out of the working world have an advantage since they've had real world experience, but I remember a lot of complaining from that crowd about how much of a struggle it was for them to get back into being at school from about 9 - 5, then having to spend the night reading and studying. If you're straight from college, I think it's a little easier in law school, at least at the beginning, since you are not used to having nights and weekends relatively free from work.

I knew I was taking a gamble going to law school, but I'm currently very happy with my decision. I have a few friends who, two years out of college, still haven't found full time employment and are going back to school for a graduate degree just to improve their situation. While the majority of my friends have found some sort of full time entry level positions, pretty much all but two or three of them are miserable about their job situation. In a year, I'll have a professional degree in a field I find extremely interesting. No matter what field I end up in, overall I feel better having spend the last two years working towards a law degree rather than working for $10/hr at a job I hate.

 

[quaere]

K to JD students aren't all bad, but perhaps I'm biased considering I am one. I definitely think students who came out of the working world have an advantage since they've had real world experience, but I remember a lot of complaining from that crowd about how much of a struggle it was for them to get back into being at school from about 9 - 5, then having to spend the night reading and studying. If you're straight from college, I think it's a little easier in law school, at least at the beginning, since you are not used to having nights and weekends relatively free from work.

I kind of see it as the opposite for people from professions most similar to law in working style (finance, accounting, consulting). We know how to work on a whole different level from undergrad. Getting an assignment at 7pm and working until early morning isn't that unusual. It's not like school where everything has been on your syllabus for months and you can spread most things out.

 

[Smelly Tramp]

I'm studying Law in the UK and i'm just starting my final year in a few months.

Personally i think the course has been informative, and every now and then you'll get a module crop up that is interesting. However the majority of it has been mind numbingly boring.

You end up just finding out about all the little flaws in each area of the law and how they are exploited, and it's quite depressing really. The course is like 80% weighted on end of year exams, and the exams are boring memory tests which boil down to the more cases and statute you remember and include, the higher your percentage.

Speaking to everyone around on the course as well, I find that it's more of who you know rather than what you know. I know noone in the field so i'm pretty much fucked when i finish the degree.

Felt good to get that out.

 

[Pollux]

Well, just finished my first day of orientation. Still pretty pumped about it all, and I know everyone is going to say get out now. But I think I've made the right decision for me. I'm not going to a top school, but I will have no debt when I graduate so it's pretty much a plus at this point.

I'll let ya know how I feel in a couple years when I'm looking for a job though. lol.

 

[AstroLad]

i wonder what happened to the OP actually hahah

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

i wonder what happened to the OP actually hahah

Dead in a gutter.

 

[voodoojohn]

I kind of see it as the opposite for people from professions most similar to law in working style (finance, accounting, consulting). We know how to work on a whole different level from undergrad. Getting an assignment at 7pm and working until early morning isn't that unusual. It's not like school where everything has been on your syllabus for months and you can spread most things out.

Are you considering law school now? Post bschool life not what you expected it'd be?

 

[Pollux]

Dead in a gutter.

His latest activity was about an hour ago actually. Just saying.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

His latest activity was about an hour ago actually. Just saying.

O no! Someone stole his identity too!

 

[AstroLad]

hm i just remembered i had a friend who just started teaching at gulc

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

hm i just remembered i had a friend who just started teaching at gulc

Got a hot tip that it's a sinking ship. Tell them to bail quick.


... Or just have a good time. We're good people

 

[Byakuya769]

hm i just remembered i had a friend who just started teaching at gulc

NYU grad?

 

[NZer]

I have a handful of friends who have now passed the bar and are officially "lawyers". Unfortunately, not one of them is practicing the kind of law they want to be or thought they would be. One however, is making in the high six figures, so he's doing pretty, pretty, pretty well.

Does high six figures mean 700,000-999,999 or 170,000-199,999? It's not a phrase we use often here in New Zealand.

 

[quaere]

Are you considering law school now? Post bschool life not what you expected it'd be?

Yeah, guess I'm fickle like that. Nothing wrong with my current job. But I'm still looking for something else. Thinking about going back to tax after law school, actually, although it would have to be a law firm unless I got into WNT or something. I'm done with the compliance side.

How's the job been going for you?

 

[SMT]

Hey OP, Law Student here, will chat everyone up tomorrow.

 

[Para bailar La Bomba]

Does high six figures mean 700,000-999,999 or 170,000-199,999? It's not a phrase we use often here in New Zealand.

I currently live across the "ditch" and hear it often.....it's a bullshit expression that's lost its meaning because a 6 figure salary isn't difficult to achieve these days. therefore high is probably 250 plus.

 

[Pollux]

Hey OP, Law Student here, will chat everyone up tomorrow.

Wait, what?

 

[Zapages]

Hey guys,

One of my friend is working on his PhD in Law (Constitutional Law) from Edinburgh University in Scotland. He wants to work in the USA after he finishes up degree. What avenues/agencies/University should he go through to get a job in an university *that his first choice to do*.

He has done his Bachelors and masters in law, constitutional law I think from the USA (Some UC school). Then he went to Scotland to do another bachelors in law and now is working/finishing up his PhD there.

Basically what job prospects are available for him in the USA as compared to the UK?

Any advice will be appreciated. Thank you guys.

 

[Bboy AJ]

He wants to be a professor at a law school? What kind of job in a university?

He's SOL if he wants to be a professor at a respectable US law school.

 

[Zapages]

He wants to be a professor at a law school? What kind of job in a university?

He's SOL if he wants to be a professor at a respectable US law school.

A professor I think. What about a job at any decent university. How about working at some Law firm?

 

[Bboy AJ]

Why didn't he go to a US law school if he wants a job here so bad?

Your question is probably best left for the UK law GAF crew. All I can say is he likely won't be getting respectable legal academia.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

I actually had a get together with some law school friends over the weekend, some of use practice some of us don't.

I was talked into practiciing, at least on a pro bono level. Gonna work to get people political asylum in the US. Right now, specifically cases of Iraqi or Afghani folks that have worked for Coalition forces.

That seems noble on face value.

 

[Zapages]

Why didn't he go to a US law school if he wants a job here so bad?

Your question is probably best left for the UK law GAF crew. All I can say is he likely won't be getting respectable legal academia.

Thanks dude. UK Lawyer GAF any suggestions?

 

[mre]

He wants to be a professor at a law school? What kind of job in a university?

He's SOL if he wants to be a professor at a respectable US law school.

I wouldn't go THAT far. There's always the option of getting his SJD, though that is only offered at some law schools, and if he's already gotten his PhD he might not want to do another couple of years of school.

 

[Zapages]

I wouldn't go THAT far. There's always the option of getting his SJD, though that is only offered at some law schools, and if he's already gotten his PhD he might not want to do another couple of years of school.

What is a State? JD? Any other options for a job in the USA? Or any websites that he could visit to apply here?

 

[mre]

What is a State? JD? Any other options for a job in the USA? Or any websites that he could visit to apply here?

An SJD is a Doctor of Juridical Science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Juridical_Science#United_States). It's basically the American equivalent of the PhD in law. Not very many people pursue it unless they are (in my understanding of the degree) interested in teaching at a law school here. It is by no means required, but it may open some doors for him here in the US.

 

[Zapages]

An SJD is a Doctor of Juridical Science (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Juridical_Science#United_States). It's basically the American equivalent of the PhD in law. Not very many people pursue it unless they are (in my understanding of the degree) interested in teaching at a law school here. It is by no means required, but it may open some doors for him here in the US.

Oh cool. Basically the same degree as it is in UK but with a different name ie MD situation here in the USA and in South Asia. Very interesting. I did not know that. Thanks dude. Would you advise him to go here in the USA for a fellowship and then apply for a job then. Will it make it easier for him to practice here in the USA.

 

[RevDM]

I've been watching Suits lately and it makes me wish I went into law school instead of med school. In case you are wondering, it's like a combination of HOUSE, ER, and Gray's Anatomy.

Spoiler

sarcasm

But seriously though, Suits is a good show lol.

 

[mre]

Oh cool. Basically the same degree as it is in UK but with a different name ie MD situation here in the USA and in South Asia. Very interesting. I did not know that. Thanks dude. Would you advise him to go here in the USA for a fellowship and then apply for a job then. Will it make it easier for him to practice here in the USA.

If he wants to practice law then he needs to decide where he wants to practice (specifically which state) and then contact that state's Bar. For example, if he wanted to join the New York Bar (and practice law in NY), then he should google "New York State Bar," to pull up their website (which happens to be http://www.nysba.org/).

As an aside, New York's Bar has a section for foreign applicants, http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm, but not every state is guaranteed to have such a section.

Each state's bar association will help him determine if he meets the qualifications to sit for their bar. Keep in mind that in America you have to be a member of the bar association for any state in which you practice law. It sucks, but that is how it is.

As far as the SJD making it easier to practice law, I wouldn't think so, beyond the obvious benefits to his employment search of having a degree granted by an American school of law.

 

[Zapages]

If he wants to practice law then he needs to decide where he wants to practice (specifically which state) and then contact that state's Bar. For example, if he wanted to join the New York Bar (and practice law in NY), then he should google "New York State Bar," to pull up their website (which happens to be http://www.nysba.org/).

As an aside, New York's Bar has a section for foreign applicants, http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm, but not every state is guaranteed to have such a section.

Each state's bar association will help him determine if he meets the qualifications to sit for their bar. Keep in mind that in America you have to be a member of the bar association for any state in which you practice law. It sucks, but that is how it is.

As far as the SJD making it easier to practice law, I wouldn't think so, beyond the obvious benefits to his employment search of having a degree granted by an American school of law.

What about teaching would SJD make it easier to teach at an university level. How is the job market for teaching for lawyers.

 

[mre]

What about teaching would SJD make it easier to teach at an university level. How is the job market for teaching for lawyers.

Keep in mind that I'm not overly familiar with the career path that would lead you to teaching, but as an example consider this blurb on the University of Florida's SJD program (where I earned my LLM) which is taxation based:

The University of Florida Levin College of Law – through its Graduate Tax Program – offers the nation’s first Doctor of Juridical Science (S.J.D.) in Taxation, designed for those interested in tax law teaching and scholarship. The degree involves extensive study, research and writing over a three-to-five year period. The program admits a very limited number of students based on their potential to contribute to tax scholarship.

I would say that a SJD from UF would easily land one a job teaching tax at some law school in the US based upon the prestige of UF's tax program. His mileage may vary depending upon the school he chooses to attend and its particular focus.

 

[AndyD]

Consider becoming a patent agent at a firm first and then going to school.

This.

You can get plenty of work as a patent agent in some of the sciences. The advanced degree is more important than the law degree.

 

[Seraphinianus]

I have a question-- of those of you who are practicing, how much did you guys think you knew about practicing law by the time you graduated? Did you feel like you were going into your first job almost clueless?

18 credits...gonna be a fun semester (but it's bs 3L classes, so whatever)

 

[Bboy AJ]

How is the job market for teaching for lawyers.

Being a law school professor has to be the toughest track for legal jobs. You'll likely be HYS, top of class, lots of publications, and a prestigious clerkship under your belt.

For undergrad, definitely not as bad but still not easy to get into as tenured.

 

[Bboy AJ]

I have a question-- of those of you who are practicing, how much did you guys think you knew about practicing law by the time you graduated? Did you feel like you were going into your first job almost clueless?

I knew stuff but definitely felt like I learned on the job a ton more. It's your writing that will make the difference.

 

[Zapages]

Keep in mind that I'm not overly familiar with the career path that would lead you to teaching, but as an example consider this blurb on the University of Florida's SJD program (where I earned my LLM) which is taxation based:

I would say that a SJD from UF would easily land one a job teaching tax at some law school in the US based upon the prestige of UF's tax program. His mileage may vary depending upon the school he chooses to attend and its particular focus.

So its really is a mixture of things and every school is different. Argh the complications. So is there a website where a person can look and see what is offered in terms of their specialty and jobs they can get. Something like pharmcas for pharmacy schools.

What about a website for lawyers to find jobs from all around the world.

 

[Bboy AJ]

So its really is a mixture of things and every school is different. Argh the complications. So is there a website where a person can look and see what is offered in terms of their specialty and jobs they can get. Something like pharmcas for pharmacy schools.

What about a website for lawyers to find jobs from all around the world.

Martindale Hubble. I think that's how it's spelled.

 

[commish]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

Wat? Was there any context? Or was it just spontaneous? I hate hearing stories like this because it makes me think the reason I don't have a job is because I must be doing something awful if people like this are coming so close to getting jobs.

 

[mingus]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

I wonder if he put his tie back on just to take it off during every interview.

 

[Seraphinianus]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

trying to seduce you?

 

[commish]

Wat? Was there any context? Or was it just spontaneous? I hate hearing stories like this because it makes me think the reason I don't have a job is because I must be doing something awful if people like this are coming so close to getting jobs.

I don't know why he did it. Maybe he was hot? I just laughed. I'm a pretty easy going interviewer, but this was a bit much.

 

[Barrett2]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

Maybe he thought you were coming on to him?

Sounds like a sexy firm.

 

[Bboy AJ]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

Instant offer.

 

[PBY]

In the middle of callback season. I love students... some are just so cocky you have to respect that. I had a guy take off his tie during the interview. HE TOOK OFF HIS TIE. You can't make this stuff up.

sooooo can I get a job? I'll keep my tie on I swear

 

[blahblah...blah]

commish, haven't stalked this thread, in what sector do you work? I'm London-based so don't worry, I wont be asking for a job

EDIT: Also, are there any legal websites people check regularly? They can be academic, about firms, just plain old gossip, or anything in between? In terms of UK-based ones, I'm rather limited, so I'm having to branch out.

 

[Bboy AJ]

commish, haven't stalked this thread, in what sector do you work? I'm London-based so don't worry, I wont be asking for a job

EDIT: Also, are there any legal websites people check regularly? They can be academic, about firms, just plain old gossip, or anything in between? In terms of UK-based ones, I'm rather limited, so I'm having to branch out.

Above the law.com

 

[Cat Party]

I have a question-- of those of you who are practicing, how much did you guys think you knew about practicing law by the time you graduated? Did you feel like you were going into your first job almost clueless?

18 credits...gonna be a fun semester (but it's bs 3L classes, so whatever)

I thought I knew almost nothing, and it turns out I still knew less than I thought I did. The only things I knew about actual practicing came from prior clerkships, and they were pretty limited. To me, it was very hard to get going, as I was constantly paralyzed by the fear I was going to screw up. I used to just sit there and stare at pleadings I was supposed to sign, lol. I think that's natural.

 

[Byakuya769]

Being a law school professor has to be the toughest track for legal jobs. You'll likely be HYS, top of class, lots of publications, and a prestigious clerkship under your belt.

For undergrad, definitely not as bad but still not easy to get into as tenured.

Isn't Chicago starting to do pretty well with that track?