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[ZackieChan]

35 hours a week and no economic pressure = the shite. I feel bad for some of my law school colleagues slaving away at firms. I only hear bad things. Many don't even make much more money than I do anyway.

Oh, I'm sorry. I misunderstood the question.

Are you in government work or something?

I'm in "private practice," but I'm a solo. I couldn't do the "slaving away at firms" thing - I'd rather make way less money. Yeah, there's economic pressure, I suppose, but my cost of living is so low that I ain't sweating it too much.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Depends upon the firm. The creative cover letter may attract attention at some firms, but turn off other firms.

As someone who has hired people before and sifted through resumes, I usually get annoyed by pretty much any attempt to be cute in the hiring process. It doesn't help your application stand out in a good way in my opinion.

 

[mre]

As someone who has hired people before and sifted through resumes, I usually get annoyed by pretty much any attempt to be cute in the hiring process. It doesn't help your application stand out in a good way in my opinion.

As a caveat, I'm assuming the guy didn't mean creative in the sense that he was going to make a pop-up cover letter or something stupid like that.

I've only had to hire contract attorneys and paralegals, but there were several things that got a resume trashed: (1) typos, (2) patterned paper and (3) stupid e-mail signatures or e-mails with a patterned background. Cover letters that were less "stuffy" or formal were fine with me.

 

[stn]

Yeah, I was basically alluding to using the standard format but making the writing style more unorthodox. Making it more personal and focusing on why my qualities would make me a great person to work with. I want to leave the person with a sense of "Even though we're not hiring at the moment, I want to meet this person just because."

 

[ZackieChan]

I wouldn't. If you don't do it right, you're screwing yourself. And it would be very difficult to do right.

 

[GiantBombGamer]

Bar review sucks. This is quite a miserable time

 

[Jag]

Bar review sucks. This is quite a miserable time

Yes it is. Just focus and exclude everything else that is a distraction because you do not want to go through this again.

 

[commish]

Yes it is. Just focus and exclude everything else that is a distraction because you do not want to go through this again.

You can take it easy for the first few weeks.. but then you have to go balls to the wall from about mid-June until the exam.

Interestingly enough I look fondly back on my bar prep time, but when it was actually happening, it was a nightmare

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Yes it is. Just focus and exclude everything else that is a distraction because you do not want to go through this again.

It's also important to keep in mind that not everything IS an unwarranted distraction: you still need to eat, sleep, stay physically fit, and engage in interpersonal relationships. For me, bar prep wasn't the heinous experience others are making it out to be, but I also refused to let it dominate my life. (Actually, I was taking Arabic classes in the afternoon, after BarBri, since I was joining the military.)

Treat it like a job, stick to a schedule, and definitely prep with regularity! But don't feel guilty if you take a day off or go out to dinner with friends. There's a reason that test-prep companies publish timelines for your review, and you absolutely don't need to study from 6am-10pm each day to pass.

Good luck!

 

[Frank the Great]

I didn't mind bar review. I spent about six hours a day studying, sometimes less. I was still so overprepared that I felt confident on exam days. It was also pretty cheap with Themis, and I got to sit on my ass at home while studying. Not a bad experience at all for me.

I took a third bar exam the following winter and passed comfortably without doing another bar review. It's amazing how much stuff you retain after a summer of memorization.

My advice is to try your best not to stress about it too much. As long as you put the minimum time in, you will pass. And the less you stress, you will be more relaxed and confident on game day, which is very important.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Interestingly enough I look fondly back on my bar prep time, but when it was actually happening, it was a nightmare

Same here. Check my GAF posts on it. I didn't like it at all. But looking back, it was cool. I woke up, studied, went to class, studied more, then called it a night. For a few weeks. Then a week or two before the exam, I decreased my studying a ton so I could relax up to the exam. Success.

 

[Syph Medwes]

LSAT on Monday baby

edit:

Goodluck! Go get 'em

thanks!

 

[GiantBombGamer]

LSAT on Monday baby

Goodluck! Go get 'em

 

[Peltz]

I'm finally getting admitted in NY today.

Feels like the satisfying conclusion to a very long chapter in my life.

 

[ZackieChan]

I'm finally getting admitted in NY today.

Feels like the satisfying conclusion to a very long chapter in my life.

Congrats!

What's next for you?

 

[commish]

I'm finally getting admitted in NY today.

Feels like the satisfying conclusion to a very long chapter in my life.

Congrats!

 

[Peltz]

Congrats!

What's next for you?

Thanks guys! I'm working out of a midsize firm in NYC right now. Just got back from the ceremony. It feels good.

 

[Cagey]

A note I got published as a student got cited in an article some professor wrote.

When can I expect to get my million dollar royalty check?

 

[kunonabi]

Anyone here have any knowledge of divorce law or know of a good place to do some research? My sister received the final divorce decree for her divorce to sign but there are bunch of things that aren't filled out. Seems kind of dangerous to me to sign something with that isn't completely filled out especially something that was written up by husband's lawyer.

 

[Bboy AJ]

Anyone here have any knowledge of divorce law or know of a good place to do some research? My sister received the final divorce decree for her divorce to sign but there are bunch of things that aren't filled out. Seems kind of dangerous to me to sign something with that isn't completely filled out especially something that was written up by husband's lawyer.

Tell her to get a lawyer if there's a decent amount of money involved.

 

[mre]

Tell her to get a lawyer if there's a decent amount of money involved.

Or kids.

 

[ZackieChan]

Anyone here have any knowledge of divorce law or know of a good place to do some research? My sister received the final divorce decree for her divorce to sign but there are bunch of things that aren't filled out. Seems kind of dangerous to me to sign something with that isn't completely filled out especially something that was written up by husband's lawyer.

Go to law school for a few years, pass the bar, work for a family law attorney for a few years.

Spoiler

Or take the shortcut and hire a lawyer. A divorce should never be one-sided, lawyer-wise.

 

[Pollux]

What's the policy in y'all's jurisdictions about people practicing with a prosecutors office or PDs office etc. Without having been admitted to the bar in that state. I know some places allow it so long as you're taking the next available bar exam in that jurisdiction.

 

[WonkyPanda]

All my training comments refer to corporate law. I actually don't know what those litigation fellows do over there, outside of the fun fun fun doc review.

Agree 100%

It's tough to beat the level of transactional training you will get at a BLF. From the amount of money, to client exposure, and complexity of the projects are unparalleled.

And, let's be honest here, the carrot on the stick is going in-house to another location, or leaving the field entirely to take a more business approach. Doing trans work at a BLF will give you the legal experience, as well as the business intricacies (which go a long way).

Plus, it's hard to disregard the market pay starting + bonus (160k atm). Yes, hours can suck, but it's going to probably suck almost anywhere you go. This is a service industry after all.

 

[Jag]

And, let's be honest here, the carrot on the stick is going in-house to another location, or leaving the field entirely to take a more business approach. Doing trans work at a BLF will give you the legal experience, as well as the business intricacies (which go a long way).

This all the way. Been in-house since 1997 and there has not been a single day when I wished I was at a law firm instead.

 

[Hypereides]

Hi Law-GAF.

I'm looking for some advice.

Just started my first semester at Uni (UCPH) studying law (civil law). I have three courses: the legal system and the judical method, criminal law, and, tort and contract. Learning the theories isn't easy and those responsible for the education seem to expect it to stick after one lesson. The professors and educators are vaguely helpful and seem unhappy about getting questions. I'm only one month deep and so far its brutal. Doesn't make things better knowing that my team advisor said my writing is a mess.

• Is there any effective study techniques to tackle the material?
  
• Also, any anecdotes, epiphanies, and, experiences you guys could share that helped you on the way?

EDIT: Bonus cred if any of you practice law in Denmark.

 

[iLLmAtlc]

We're in common law over here, but maybe you'll find some textbooks (not casebook) useful? I always thought trying to learn law from a case when you don't know anything was weird.

 

[The Llama]

I passed the PA bar and I'm a lawyer now. So that's cool.

 

[StevieWhite]

I passed the PA bar and I'm a lawyer now. So that's cool.

*High five* Welcome to the wonderful world of practicing in Pennsylvania. You'll soon develop incredibly strong opinions on elected judges.

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

I passed the PA bar and I'm a lawyer now. So that's cool.

Congrats from a fellow PA lawyer! Even if I'm someone who's never actually practiced there before (and probably never will).

 

[The Llama]

*High five* Welcome to the wonderful world of practicing in Pennsylvania. You'll soon develop incredibly strong opinions on elected judges.

Haha thanks. I'll be working for the city of Philadelphia's Law Department and hopefully there will be enough litigation involved that I'll actually get to form those opinions!

 

[iLLmAtlc]

studying some real estate transactions and no wonder solicitors make so much money

And the said covenantor doth hereby, for himself, his heirs, executors, and administrators, covenant, promise, and agree with and to the said covenantee, his heirs, executors, administrators, and assigns, that he the said covenantor, his heirs, executors, or administrators, and all and every other person the whatsoever having or claiming, or who shall or may hereafter have or claim, any estate, right, title, or interest whatsoever, either at law or in equity, in, to, or out of the said land and premises hereby conveyed or intended so to be, or any of them, or any part thereof, by, from, under, or in trust for him, them, or any of them, shall and will from time to time, and at all times hereafter, upon every reasonable request, and at the costs and charges of the said covenantee, his heirs, executors, administrators, or assigns, make, do, execute, or cause to be made, done, or executed, all such further and other lawful acts, deeds, things, devices, conveyances, and assurances in the law whatsoever, for the better, more perfectly, and absolutely conveying and assuring the said land and premises hereby conveyed, or intended so to be, and every part thereof, with their appurtenances, unto the said covenantee, his heirs and assigns, in manner aforesaid, as by the said covenantee, his heirs and assigns, his or their counsel in the law, shall be reasonably devised, advised, or required, so as no such further assurances contain or imply any further or other covenant or warranty than against the acts and deeds of the person who shall be required to make or execute the same, and his heirs, executors, or administrators only, and so as no person who shall be required to make or execute such assurances shall be compellable for the making or executing thereof to go or travel from his usual place of abode.

 

[ZackieChan]

Hey guys, us solos are all fucked.
http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-lawyers-are-a-dying-breed-2015-6

 

[Angry Grimace]

Received my first threat from opposing counsel to report me to the State Bar!

This crazy leathery old lady insisted that I never explained to her the reasoning behind why I wanted amended responses (e.g. I called her up and simply demanded a supplemental response on discovery without actually giving her any reason, and apparently she never asked why I wanted one) and that she would report me to the State Bar if I ever lie in a pleading to the Court again.

I feel like a real lawyer now

 

[mre]

Received my first threat from opposing counsel to report me to the State Bar!

This crazy leathery old lady insisted that I never explained to her the reasoning behind why I wanted amended responses (e.g. I called her up and simply demanded a supplemental response on discovery without actually giving her any reason, and apparently she never asked why I wanted one) and that she would report me to the State Bar if I ever lie in a pleading to the Court again.

I feel like a real lawyer now

I'm assuming you had filed a motion to compel those responses and this motion is what prompted her angry phone call?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm assuming you had filed a motion to compel those responses and this motion is what prompted her angry phone call?

Many words incoming:

Basically opposing counsel told us at the outset of the case that she planned to file a motion to compel arbitration (in California, the act of filing of a motion to compel arbitration causes a stay on proceedings to be entered). We served written discovery on the arbitration issue, since she never actually filed an Arbitration motion and just filed an Answer. At the deadline to serve discovery responses, she served a response that said "we refuse to respond because we're going to have a stay entered once we file the Arbitration motion."

I called her up and mentioned a couple of things about the responses in particular (not in a lot of detail, mind you, just like a few words), but the bulk of the conversation was that I told her that there isn't an actual stay because she never actually filed the Arbitration motion. It's pretty blatantly improper to refuse to respond to discovery on the grounds you're going to get a stay at some point in the future.

She told me she wasn't going to supplement, but was going to file the Arbitration motion that day or the next day, so I went in ex parte since I considered the responses she served as baseline non-responses. About 2 weeks later (as opposed to 1 day), 3 days before the ex parte, she filed the Arbitration motion, and I just changed the ex parte asked the court to advise whether the stay retrospectively affected her obligation to respond (refusing to respond because you believe a stay will be entered later is blatantly improper). She lost and the Court actually ordered her to supplement. Then she confronted me after the hearing about the "lies."

Her contention was that this conversation never took place and I just called her up demanding a supplemental response with no rhyme or reason, despite how highly unlikely it is such a conversation could even happen.

 

[cdViking]

Bonjour LawyerGAF, new to the thread. Anybody work in public accounting/Big 4 doing tax advisory work?

 

[mre]

Many words incoming:

Basically opposing counsel told us at the outset of the case that she planned to file a motion to compel arbitration (in California, the act of filing of a motion to compel arbitration causes a stay on proceedings to be entered). We served written discovery on the arbitration issue, since she never actually filed an Arbitration motion and just filed an Answer. At the deadline to serve discovery responses, she served a response that said "we refuse to respond because we're going to have a stay entered once we file the Arbitration motion."

I called her up and mentioned a couple of things about the responses in particular (not in a lot of detail, mind you, just like a few words), but the bulk of the conversation was that I told her that there isn't an actual stay because she never actually filed the Arbitration motion. It's pretty blatantly improper to refuse to respond to discovery on the grounds you're going to get a stay at some point in the future.

She told me she wasn't going to supplement, but was going to file the Arbitration motion that day or the next day, so I went in ex parte since I considered the responses she served as baseline non-responses. About 2 weeks later (as opposed to 1 day), 3 days before the ex parte, she filed the Arbitration motion, and I just changed the ex parte asked the court to advise whether the stay retrospectively affected her obligation to respond (refusing to respond because you believe a stay will be entered later is blatantly improper). She lost and the Court actually ordered her to supplement. Then she confronted me after the hearing about the "lies."

Her contention was that this conversation never took place and I just called her up demanding a supplemental response with no rhyme or reason, despite how highly unlikely it is such a conversation could even happen.

Sounds like a joy to work with!

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Not a lawyer yet, still working on passing the bar

Spent yesterday working on Meet and Confer letter regarding discovery responses. This opposing counsel loves to propound 150 special interrogatories from the get go no matter the type of case.

We objected to nearly every single question the first time around because he kept instructing to refer to outside materials.

Reiterated that objection lol.

Motion to compel, here we come.

These attorney that propound insane amount of interrogatories for billing purposes are annoying. Totally throws a wrench into our discovery calendar.

 

[OnkelC]

Hey guys, us solos are all fucked.
http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-lawyers-are-a-dying-breed-2015-6

similar situation in Germany, way too many average solos in the market.

 

[Cagey]

Any experience here with federal hiring processes?

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Any experience here with federal hiring processes?

I have experience in not getting hired, if it helps. But yeah, I know the game well.

 

[Cagey]

I have experience in not getting hired, if it helps. But yeah, I know the game well.

Do you recall how long the typical interview process was for whichever agency you were applying?

 

[ryan299]

Is there any entertainment lawyers here that I could answer something for me?

 

[ZackieChan]

Is there any entertainment lawyers here that I could answer something for me?

I'm a video game lawyer that has some entertainment experience, but as I tell almost everyone that asks legal questions here, I can't just answer specific legal questions on a message board like this. It usually involves signing an attorney-client engagement agreement and my fee

 

[Advocatus Diaboli]

Do you recall how long the typical interview process was for whichever agency you were applying?

Months and months. With DoJ, I got interviews pretty quickly -- within a couple weeks of applying. The second round interview was quick too. With others? You get "referred" and then hear nothing.

Even when I asked line attorneys how long the process was, they didn't really know either. And when the General Counsel of a particular agency said that I'd hear something in 2-3 weeks, I never did.

DoD elements are pretty good about selecting their candidates, so I got the rejections (via automated notification through USAJobs) pretty quickly.

 

[Bboy AJ]

I'm looking to change jobs again, potentially. That involves updating my resume since this time, I am searching outside my network. When job searching during law school, there were certain rules for resumes, such as being a page long. Now that I'm looking to move, I have zero clue as to what my resume should look like, what I put on it, etc.

Does anyone have any resources or advice? Thanks.

 

[ZackieChan]

It doesn't HAVE to be one page, but all of the important information should be on page 1.

 

[Cagey]

A follow up question: anyone familiar with the post-offer investigation process for federal hiring?

 

[Random Painted HIghway]

I've known folks who were stuck in background check hell for some time, several months before getting approved, local Ausa positions. The fbi will pop in on your former neighbors even if you've moved states, that takes some time. I've never been with the Feds, but I've been with a partner state agency. It can take some time particularly if you're older and have moved around a bit. Good luck.