• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
If they have no idea it's not just a gag, and based on some foreigners' frustrations, then I think it would be easy to miss the point.

They keep referring to the guys as gaijin even though some of them are native speakers, and one girl even suggests that the waitress should have made gestures, completely forgetting that everyone in the video was actually fluent in Japanese. The cameraman had to remind her of that.

They're not just missing the point. They have some kind of mental block when it comes to non-Asian people speaking Japanese well, and they're also way off the mark when they're trying to gauge the popularity of the video. The misconceptions that Japanese a) cannot possibly be learnt/be a non-Asian person's native language, and b) is consequently not a subject of interest to many people seem to still be deeply ingrained in the Japanese's minds, even young people in Tokyo - who arguably should be the most open-minded and world-aware in the country.

Plus, the video is a half-gag, really. Sure, it's scripted and it exaggerates the situation a bit, but it's not straight humor. They're making a point, and they're really spelling it out throughout the video. There's nothing really subtle about it. And I'd argue that if they thought the video was completely real, then they should get the point even more easily. ANYONE other than Japanese people would see a real-life situation like this and think "what the fuck is wrong with the waitress? Everyone's speaking her language but she doesn't talk to them!" This thing is very specific to the Japanese, I feel. But if I'm wrong and there are a lot of cultures like that, please someone enlighten me.
 

Crayolan

Member
How do Japanese pronounce the letter Z? "Zee" or "Zed"? Ran into a bit of confusion with this the other day where a clerk had trouble understanding "Zee". Not sure if it was my accent slipping them up or if they just use the other pronunciation.

I don't know if it's been posted here, but this is sad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLBShiGoJFo

Most of them miss the point of the video so hard. It's not like the video, while good, is subtle either... It's incredibly frustrating, if completely expected.

If most Japanese were aware of the issue it wouldn't be an issue, would it?

Plus the video is a bit over the top so it's easy to take it as being for humor rather than making a point.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
How do Japanese pronounce the letter Z? "Zee" or "Zed"? Ran into a bit of confusion with this the other day where a clerk had trouble understanding "Zee". Not sure if it was my accent slipping them up or if they just use the other pronunciation.

My guess is "Zetto" ゼット, because that's the way they say "Dragon Ball Z".

[/animeexpert]

@Jintor: fair point.

@Crayolan: I guess, but I would at least expect younger people from the capital to be a bit more aware.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
can people stop giving yuta clicks. dude is literally making japanese versions of shitty reacts/reddit topics 5 years later because he realized no other native is dumb enough to do it and he can get the weeb views.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
can people stop giving yuta clicks. dude is literally making japanese versions of shitty reacts/reddit topics 5 years later because he realized no other native is dumb enough to do it and he can get the weeb views.

I normally don't watch or post reaction videos, but I found this one interesting. Also I don't read Reddit, and as you said, nobody else seems to be doing that.

Anyway, what's your experience/take on this phenomenon? Does it often happen to you? If so, what are the reasons why this happens according to you?
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
im pretty sure this video had a thread back then. and you need to reddit, at least read.

but no, it doesnt really happen to me. frankly speaking, the possibility of someone not understanding what i say is nil. for one, im primarily in a region where no one gives a fuck, two, im kind of an expert.

when im back in my more rural stomping grounds, what i find is more people are just not open to the idea of it being possible, but they never outright ignore me. does the situation in the video ever happen? surely, but almost 99% because of the speaker's terrible accent. none of the people in that video would have any issue with day to day life. the usual annoying topic that stems from this is guys with j-girls who get offended when the person defaults to asking the lady. this hurts their masculinity and is the usual reason for the micro aggression.

not to mention this is not a japan specific thing. ive seen this happen in europe and america plenty with people not understanding what the fuck youre saying because youre a foreigner and they just dont want to try.

either way, it's just not a huge deal in most of your daily life. if it happened to me id be annoyed, but it's not debito level shit.

in short, fuck yuta and fuck dave ury.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
im pretty sure this video had a thread back then. and you need to reddit, at least read.

It's just a thing I never really got into for whatever reason. Why do I need it? Any pages you'd recommend I check out?

but no, it doesnt really happen to me. frankly speaking, the possibility of someone not understanding what i say is nil. for one, im primarily in a region where no one gives a fuck, two, im kind of an expert.

To be honest, it happened to me once or twice while walking on the street - I was on my own, too -, with older people, but pretty much never outside of that. But to be fair, I was always in a college environment, with Japanese college students who knew me and my friends were all Japanese students. They knew who they were talking to, so it would have been really weird in that context to just ignore me, especially since my general level, my pronunciation and accent were good enough to be understood. I was in Fukuoka by the way, studying at 九大. Still, it happened to me a couple of times, and I can hardly imagine the same thing happen here in France. If an Asian person came up to a French dude and started speaking French with a decent level, they would be talked to in French. But in Japan, from experience, it can happen. Rarely, sure, but it can. And the mere fact that it can happen is fascinating to me, if a bit frustrating.

when im back in my more rural stomping grounds, what i find is more people are just not open to the idea of it being possible, but they never outright ignore me. does the situation in the video ever happen? surely, but almost 99% because of the speaker's terrible accent. none of the people in that video would have any issue with day to day life.
the usual annoying topic that stems from this is guys with j-girls who get offended when the person defaults to asking the lady. this hurts their masculinity and is the usual reason for the micro aggression.

Ha, interesting, never thought of it that way. Not saying I believe you or don't believe you, since I've always hung out with people who were at least decent at Japanese like me, not weeaboos with terrible accents.

not to mention this is not a japan specific thing. ive seen this happen in europe and america plenty with people not understanding what the fuck youre saying because youre a foreigner and they just dont want to try.

Eh, again, I'm ONLY talking about people who know the language well enough. Obviously if you suck at Japanese you will be ignored - and should be ignored if you don't wanna do your homework.

either way, it's just not a huge deal in most of your daily life. if it happened to me id be annoyed, but it's not debito level shit.

I can agree with this.

in short, fuck yuta and fuck dave ury.

Holy shit, I didn't know Ken Tanaka was this dude. I've never followed KT closely, I'd only seen a couple of his vids about finding his parents or whatever. Apparently he's made appearances in Breaking Bad, of all things? Never noticed it, he must have been an extra.

It seems you know quite a bit about Japanese youtube personalities. So tell me: who's redeemable among them? lol
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
It's just a thing I never really got into for whatever reason. Why do I need it? Any pages you'd recommend I check out?



To be honest, it happened to me once or twice while walking on the street - I was on my own, too -, with older people, but pretty much never outside of that. But to be fair, I was always in a college environment, with Japanese college students who knew me and my friends were all Japanese students. They knew who they were talking to, so it would have been really weird in that context to just ignore me, especially since my general level, my pronunciation and accent were good enough to be understood. I was in Fukuoka by the way, studying at 九大. Still, it happened to me a couple of times, and I can hardly imagine the same thing happen here in France. If an Asian person came up to a French dude and started speaking French with a decent level, they would be talked to in French. But in Japan, from experience, it can happen. Rarely, sure, but it can. And the mere fact that it can happen is fascinating to me, if a bit frustrating.



Ha, interesting, never thought of it that way. Not saying I believe you or don't believe you, since I've always hung out with people who were at least decent at Japanese like me, not weeaboos with terrible accents.



Eh, again, I'm ONLY talking about people who know the language well enough. Obviously if you suck at Japanese you will be ignored - and should be ignored if you don't wanna do your homework.



I can agree with this.



Holy shit, I didn't know Ken Tanaka was this dude. I've never followed KT closely, I'd only seen a couple of his vids about finding his parents or whatever. Apparently he's made appearances in Breaking Bad, of all things? Never noticed it, he must have been an extra.

It seems you know quite a bit about Japanese youtube personalities. So tell me: who's redeemable among them? lol

i was in the country when all of this jvlog shit started and i was active in the translation/learning community for long before that..so ive had the 'pleasure' of dealing with or meeting a lot of the older community through my guy jean network. the new crowd like kanadajin not so much. i try not to say too much though since itd be easy to figure out who i am probably, if anyone gave a shit. ury is an actual actor though, yes.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
i was in the country when all of this jvlog shit started and i was active in the translation/learning community for long before that..so ive had the 'pleasure' of dealing with or meeting a lot of the older community through my guy jean network. the new crowd like kanadajin not so much. i try not to say too much though since itd be easy to figure out who i am probably, if anyone gave a shit. ury is an actual actor though, yes.

I understand. Any stuff you can recommend on reddit though?
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
front page for all relevant daily cooler talk, japan, japanlife, japancirclejerk, learnjapanese are all good laughs but keep you up to date on expat attitudes and experiences. then i follow a few subs that are specific to my industry/job. i dont really participate, but with so many active users it's just a trove of content, unlike gaf.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
front page for all relevant daily cooler talk, japan, japanlife, japancirclejerk, learnjapanese are all good laughs but keep you up to date on expat attitudes and experiences. then i follow a few subs that are specific to my industry/job. i dont really participate, but with so many active users it's just a trove of content, unlike gaf.

Thanks! Will check those out.
 

Resilient

Member
I swear that over the 3-something years I've been on GAF, the threads in Gaming have gotten even dumber than they already were to begin with.

I...really CBF posting in gaming side at all. Outside of this thread I only post in OT because Gaming is such a mare. Outside of the p5 Tokyo tower thread/any p5 news I really don't step in much. Too secular.

OT on the other hand is great.

Also Reddit is a battle ground depending what sub you're on. It's great. Good for getting a quick snapsht of what parts of the world/communities are looking like. For good and bad.

Also that Yuta dude is a mega troll and a hit whore like expert said. "Hey guys I really didn't want to make this video about weebs but you guys wanted it and I like hits so here it is! And now a follow up!" Lol. Please.
 
I...really CBF posting in gaming side at all. Outside of this thread I only post in OT because Gaming is such a mare. Outside of the p5 Tokyo tower thread/any p5 news I really don't step in much. Too secular.
OTs for most games are usually decent to good. However, at least half the threads in Gaming these days are either about godawful op-eds, are demanding a boycott over censorship, are asking if the OP's the only one that holds a certain opinion, or are really shitty speculation threads that make no fucking sense if you think about them for like 3 seconds.

I honestly communicate more with GAFers via Discord than the actual forum these days and I don't think it's hard to see why. I should really visit OT more though since it doesn't really have that problem.
 

Resilient

Member
OTs for most games are usually decent to good. However, at least half the threads in Gaming these days are either about godawful op-eds, are demanding a boycott over censorship, are asking if the OP's the only one that holds a certain opinion, or are really shitty speculation threads that make no fucking sense if you think about them for like 3 seconds.

I honestly communicate more with GAFers via Discord than the actual forum these days and I don't think it's hard to see why. I should really visit OT more though since it doesn't really have that problem.

am i the only one who isn't interested in Gaming side anymore?
what if gaming side merged with GameFAQs?
LTTP: Uncharted 3
 

urfe

Member
Heads up to all Japanese learners, Persona 3 (PSP) and Persona 4 Golden are 55% off now on the Japanese PSN.
 
Heads up to all Japanese learners, Persona 3 (PSP) and Persona 4 Golden are 55% off now on the Japanese PSN.

I bit on P3P cuz I never played the female version, waffling on P4G since I played it in English and there's no way I'd finish it before September with all the other stuff I'm juggling. I really wish the P2 remakes were on sale, as I've never played either of them...
 

Beckx

Member
NHK School has turned out to be great for additional listening practice at my level. Listening to two math-challenged おまわりさん argue about measuring hot dogs is sadly right about my current level. But seriously it's exposure to new vocab, accents and ordinary ways of speaking that I haven't been getting, while still simple enough that I can get something out of it.
 

urfe

Member
I bit on P3P cuz I never played the female version, waffling on P4G since I played it in English and there's no way I'd finish it before September with all the other stuff I'm juggling. I really wish the P2 remakes were on sale, as I've never played either of them...

Yeah, I wish the entire series was on sale. I picked up P4G, and will prob pick up P3P just because it probably won't be this cheap again.
 

Resilient

Member
Heads up to all Japanese learners, Persona 3 (PSP) and Persona 4 Golden are 55% off now on the Japanese PSN.

Anyone here played the Persona series in JPN? I can imagine it would be a lot to take in the first time around with all the Arcana and shit. i might have a crack at P1/P2 soon.
 
Anyone here played the Persona series in JPN? I can imagine it would be a lot to take in the first time around with all the Arcana and shit. i might have a crack at P1/P2 soon.

I played a bit each of Persona Q and P4D in Japanese but haven't finished either. The arcana aren't a factor in those but some of the language can be difficult, and they don't pull punches with the kanji. I just started playing P3 and so far it seems pretty manageable, but then I'm coming off of finishing Steins;Gate so my frame of reference is a bit skewed maybe.

I'd say that they're significantly more difficult than the Ace Attorney series and the recent Fire Emblem games, but not as difficult as Shin Megami Tensei 4, if you've played those...
 

Resilient

Member
hm...i might actually go with Persona Q now. playing Digimon World Re:code, really simple stuff story + dialogue wise, and with furigana (lol) so definitely makes you feel good. it's relaxing after spending hours watching + reading news and TV. on that topic, holy hell. feels like a never ending barrage of vocab and ways to say the same shit, with no end in sight..i've been on a bit of a binge watching stuff, and occasionally blank out on basic grammar, but man, feel like this shit will never end. lol.
 

urfe

Member
I'll be starting P4G tomorrow, and will post my impressions on the language.

As a side note, playing Mother3 gave me "ちんにゅうしゃ" (The game doesn't use kanji in dialogue), which I looked up as 闖入者 (intruder). First time to see that ちん kanji!
 

Resilient

Member
I think he's simply saying これについては.

Call me a weeaboo if wrong.

Yeah that's what he said.

thanks fam...i should have registered that first :<

Elbow, I know you're native so question might not really apply to you, but for Kilrogg - that has to be all just gathered experience right? i'll sometimes play the same sequence over and over and just...fail to understand what is said because it's so fast; then ask a native friend for them to be like, "oh, it's this". now you're obviously not native, so going back to the question - just experience, or did you pinpoint that kind of speech as an area of focus?
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
it's from knowing that ko plus re equals kore..your example has really absolutely nothing ambiguous about it in terms of speed or enunciation. this is what happens when you dont follow my instructions word for word.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
thanks fam...i should have registered that first :<

Elbow, I know you're native so question might not really apply to you, but for Kilrogg - that has to be all just gathered experience right? i'll sometimes play the same sequence over and over and just...fail to understand what is said because it's so fast; then ask a native friend for them to be like, "oh, it's this". now you're obviously not native, so going back to the question - just experience, or did you pinpoint that kind of speech as an area of focus?

Hm, it's tricky.

First, I'll come out right now and say that I actually suck at listening comprehension. For the life of me, I can't focus on what people are saying in Japanese for too long before losing the thread of what they're saying, and if they're talking fast it's even worse. On top of that, I have this weird thing where I sometimes break down what I'm hearing too much - as opposed to hearing words, phrases and sentences in a global context and automatically inferring what the person said -, and that goes for any language I can speak, even my mother tongue. I've been in situations where I've felt like an idiot because I would make people repeat something very simple because I was just juxtaposing every sound I was hearing without linking them into a meaningful phrase. Nothing severe though, it's not even a condition, but it can happen to me. So, what you just experienced with "overparsing" a phrase that was actually fairly simple? It happens to me too, in every language.

A while ago I tried making my own fan subtitles of a Jojo's Bizarre Adventure episode in Japanese, and I encountered the same problem as you. There was this one sentence I listened to over and over and over, and I couldn't parse the last bit correctly. Part of it was because I didn't know the word - &#24341;&#12365;&#12385;&#12366;&#12427;, FYI -, but still, I should have been able to hear all the syllables properly, or at least try out a few possible transcriptions and find the word in my description. But no joke, it took me 20 minutes to finally figure it out, if not more. Now that I listen to it again it seems obvious, but I can assure you it wasn't back then.

So I guess you could say it's:
- partly a matter of knowledge: knowing the words and the structures so you can identify whole words and phrases rather than individual sounds that might be lazily pronounced; maybe you just didn't know &#12371;&#12428;&#12395;&#12388;&#12356;&#12390;&#12399;was a thing people say. I don't know your level of Japanese, so it's hard for me to judge. Is this phrase complicated in your mind?
- partly experience: how much Japanese you've heard, and how many times you've heard similar structures; maybe you're not familiar with the way the Japanese speak.

For this particular example, you can actually cheat: look at the subtitles in the video. You'll notice this specific part of what the person said does not appear in the subtitles. From that, you can infer that they're just filler words with no real meaning or value, which is exactly what &#12371;&#12428;&#12395;&#12388;&#12356;&#12390;&#12399;is. "With regards to this" is essentially an empty phrase.

With all that said, what do you mean when you say "did you pinpoint that kind of speech as an area of focus?"?

And again, where are you at in your "journey" towards mastering Japanese? I was under the impression you were pretty far along, but I might be wrong. What's your JLPT level, for instance?

[EDIT] @I'm an expert: come on, man, don't be so harsh on Resilient. Which instructions are you referring to, by the way? If it's something about your whiteboard method, I'll admit I've never read your full post lol, because I'm not in a place where I can or want to follow your method right now. Might happen some day though.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
i think because youre not from a native ball breaking country, you dont know what it is to bust someones balls. that was an example of breaking someones balls.

anyway, first, i have a listening post as well. but really what it comes down to is what i always say. a phrase like we're talking about doesnt come out in shit like anime or dramas, but you would hear this worthless phrase all the time in an interview or talk/news show. so the fact he's listening to these kind of examples and learning is exactly what he should be doing, having never come across this natural kind of interview answering is exactly why he couldnt parse literally the easiest word in the language.

but what i said still stands, theres really no difficulty in picking the kore up, it's hamstrining yourself by clouding your listening up with everything around it.

got it, fam?
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
i think because youre not from a native ball breaking country, you dont know what it is to bust someones balls. that was an example of breaking someones balls.

Is this your experience of France? I'm genuinely curious. We certainly love busting people's balls over here. At least I know I do. And I generally think people are pretty good at sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek statements, that kind of stuff here on GAF. In your case I thought the phrasing was too ambiguous. I didn't get that ball-breaking nature of your post because it was poorly written, fam.

anyway, first, i have a listening post as well. but really what it comes down to is what i always say. a phrase like we're talking about doesnt come out in shit like anime or dramas, but you would hear this worthless phrase all the time in an interview or talk/news show. so the fact he's listening to these kind of examples and learning is exactly what he should be doing, having never come across this natural kind of interview answering is exactly why he couldnt parse literally the easiest word in the language.

but what i said still stands, theres really no difficulty in picking the kore up, it's hamstrining yourself by clouding your listening up with everything around it.

Agreed and agreed, generally speaking. I was just saying that sometimes you can have brain farts, even with the most simple stuff.
 

Resilient

Member
Kilrogg, thanks. That answers most of what I was curious about. I'm far? in my studies ATM. Which is why getting stuck at points like this is annoying. It happens a lot because there are gaps in my listening comprehension (I'll know a word but haven't heard it in the wild), so I'll second, third, fourth guess a section and get stuck on it (too stubborn to move past it).

In that case, I was sure I was hearing &#12371;&#12358;&#12360;&#12435;, knew it couldn't be &#20844;&#22290; but cause he was talking about &#25903;&#25345;&#23652; before my mind went straight to &#24460;&#25588; - cause I was still second guessing it I checked here. It was without a doubt a rookie mistake.

Expert, eat my ass. I have notepads filled with transcribed NHK articles. And I knew what &#12371;&#12428; was, I learnt it when I was playing Digimon World &#65288;&#65342;&#8711;&#65342;&#65289;

anyway. Your listening post is my current religion. I can't recommend it enough.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Is this your experience of France? I'm genuinely curious. We certainly love busting people's balls over here. At least I know I do. And I generally think people are pretty good at sarcasm, tongue-in-cheek statements, that kind of stuff here on GAF. In your case I thought the phrasing was too ambiguous. I didn't get that ball-breaking nature of your post because it was poorly written, fam.
.

because if i bust balls the way i normally would id get banned..and res is literally the only person in this thread that i fuck around with

but no, france isnt exactly the first country that comes to mind when i think of manly men breakin balls
 

urfe

Member
Just started P4G, and the Japanese is (over the top) casual. Not overly hard Japanese so far.

I don't read manga or watch anime, but I assume it's similar.
 

Porcile

Member
I find this thread's ball busting a nice counter-balance to how fucking fucked up learning English is here in public schools.

Let's play some UNO!
 

Porcile

Member
heh, I am exaggerating somewhat for internet-effect and attention. A lot of stuff at school is out of my control but like all things it's what you make of the opportunities you get. I try to get the kids speaking and writing in and out of the classroom, and not just doing the equivalent of paint-by-numbers language learning like doing silly games and activities all the time. The way English is taught is frustrating to me as a language learner, but its obviously not an attitude shared by many. I give back to the kids as best I can.
 
So I was hit with a sudden fit of self-doubt as to what verb should be used with &#29983;&#27963; when making a sentence meaning "He lives a very slovenly life." (&#24444;&#12399;&#12384;&#12425;&#12375;&#12394;&#12356;&#29983;&#27963;&#12434;&#12295;&#12295;) In the past I've used &#36942;&#12372;&#12377;, and nobody has ever corrected me, but I've just found that &#36865;&#12427; is apparently the more correct verb to use here. (&#24444;&#12399;&#12384;&#12425;&#12375;&#12394;&#12356;&#29983;&#27963;&#12434;&#36865;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;)

I'm curious if anyone knows why this word has this meaning. The &#22823;&#36766;&#26519; has this definition: &#9315;&#8200;&#65288;&#26178;&#12364;&#65289;&#36942;&#12366;&#21435;&#12427;&#12414;&#12414;&#12395;&#12377;&#12427;&#12290;&#26178;&#12434;&#36942;&#12372;&#12377;&#12290;&#12300;&#23569;&#24180;&#26178;&#20195;&#12434;&#21271;&#28023;&#36947;&#12391;&#8213;&#12387;&#12383;&#12301; which is the usage here, but it seems rather removed from all other use-cases for the word.

It doesn't really matter, but I was surprised to find this usage, and figured that there might be a few other people who might not have encountered this particular use-case and be able to make use of it themselves.
 

Sakura

Member
They keep referring to the guys as gaijin even though some of them are native speakers, and one girl even suggests that the waitress should have made gestures, completely forgetting that everyone in the video was actually fluent in Japanese. The cameraman had to remind her of that.

They're not just missing the point. They have some kind of mental block when it comes to non-Asian people speaking Japanese well, and they're also way off the mark when they're trying to gauge the popularity of the video. The misconceptions that Japanese a) cannot possibly be learnt/be a non-Asian person's native language, and b) is consequently not a subject of interest to many people seem to still be deeply ingrained in the Japanese's minds, even young people in Tokyo - who arguably should be the most open-minded and world-aware in the country.

Plus, the video is a half-gag, really. Sure, it's scripted and it exaggerates the situation a bit, but it's not straight humor. They're making a point, and they're really spelling it out throughout the video. There's nothing really subtle about it. And I'd argue that if they thought the video was completely real, then they should get the point even more easily. ANYONE other than Japanese people would see a real-life situation like this and think "what the fuck is wrong with the waitress? Everyone's speaking her language but she doesn't talk to them!" This thing is very specific to the Japanese, I feel. But if I'm wrong and there are a lot of cultures like that, please someone enlighten me.

I can't really say I've ever had this experience in Japan.
If I speak Japanese, people speak Japanese back. I've had reactions where people are relieved you speak Japanese (lots of foreigners just try to speak English at Japanese as though they'd understand), but never a situation where the person like, refuses to communicate with me lol.
I work at a convenience store though, and there are times where I will be standing there, and a Japanese person I am working with is standing there too, and the customer will sort of avoid me and ask the Japanese person for help. It's understandable I think, but it's always funny to me when then my coworker has to ask me to help the customer because they don't know.
Either way reaction videos are silly. It's the same as those videos like 'Americans are so dumb!' and they show a compilation of Americans who can't name their own president.
 
So I was hit with a sudden fit of self-doubt as to what verb should be used with &#29983;&#27963; when making a sentence meaning "He lives a very slovenly life." (&#24444;&#12399;&#12384;&#12425;&#12375;&#12394;&#12356;&#29983;&#27963;&#12434;&#12295;&#12295;) In the past I've used &#36942;&#12372;&#12377;, and nobody has ever corrected me, but I've just found that &#36865;&#12427; is apparently the more correct verb to use here. (&#24444;&#12399;&#12384;&#12425;&#12375;&#12394;&#12356;&#29983;&#27963;&#12434;&#36865;&#12387;&#12390;&#12356;&#12427;)

I'm curious if anyone knows why this word has this meaning. The &#22823;&#36766;&#26519; has this definition: &#9315;&#8200;&#65288;&#26178;&#12364;&#65289;&#36942;&#12366;&#21435;&#12427;&#12414;&#12414;&#12395;&#12377;&#12427;&#12290;&#26178;&#12434;&#36942;&#12372;&#12377;&#12290;&#12300;&#23569;&#24180;&#26178;&#20195;&#12434;&#21271;&#28023;&#36947;&#12391;&#8213;&#12387;&#12383;&#12301; which is the usage here, but it seems rather removed from all other use-cases for the word.

It doesn't really matter, but I was surprised to find this usage, and figured that there might be a few other people who might not have encountered this particular use-case and be able to make use of it themselves.

I don't know if there's much of a logical reason. As a native speaker, I just see that as a natural way of phrasing, and assume people just started using it that way lol. The closest reason I can think of is &#12300;&#36865;&#12427;&#12301;usually represents the movement or passing of something from one place to another. Like when you send a package, or accompany someone who's leaving. In this case it just applies to life, like the "movement"/passing of time or whatever.

Sorry if that's confusing. Maybe someone who knows more about the technical side can answer your question better. That's my guess though.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Top Bottom