• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

let's debate....Social networks have harmed humanity?

Social networks have harmed humanity

  • yes

    Votes: 194 97.5%
  • no

    Votes: 5 2.5%

  • Total voters
    199

Keihart

Member
Forums are social media yet the discussion here seems to be around the platforms that heavily use the attention economy and complex algorithms, no wonder there are no insights in the thread. The real problem is not being discussed or dissected...but i guess that's OPs fault to a large degree in how he framed it.

Even games like WoW had psychologists shaping loot mechanics to manipulate players attention and exploit addiction, pretending this all started with facebook like platforms looks like a real boomer take.

 
Last edited:

Orpheum

Member
It's especially harmful for children.

My mother is working in the psychological field, mostly with children and young adults and let me tell you that she's busier than ever. the majority of her cases are girls... and every single instance is linked to social media, predominantely Instagram and TikTok.

Their Body images are fucked, they feel hopeless because they are constantly comparing their life to influencers and their social contacts are extremely superficial because everything in their lives revolves around these apps and receiving clout/likes/attention. My mom has pretty much given up and simply hopes that the next generation will be a tad bit better as these issues hopefully get more acknowledgement in the upcoming years.

Just recently i was at a bar after watching a movie in theatre with 2 mates and just across there were 3 girls and a guy (age 17-18 i'd guess) and they were glued to their phones. They only ever interacted with each other when someone found something funny on their instagram timeline, it was sad to see.

I'm glad that pretty much none of my friends are on socila media and we keep our phones in our pockets when we meet up...
 

ShadowLag

Member
I have a more sinister wall of text take on this that goes a bit deeper than the obvious addiction and fake-living angles (which are both very real, very bad, and well documented).

Now in the 2020s, the problems of social media go far deeper than losing grip on your own mental and physical well being.

Social media, when defined as a technology that lets us instantly communicate and share images/video/audio with anyone we want across the world and have that information saved to a profile of sorts with complete control over who can view it, is merely a useful tool for some people. But as with any other useful tool, a huge percentage of the human race tends to use it for propaganda and idiotic tribal bullying purposes. We're not smart enough as a whole species to handle giving this kind of power to everyone (evil shitfuck corporations and governments, included).

IMO, what Metal Gear Solid 2 spoke of is now a reality. What was once a unifying tool designed to help humanity communicate has become a festering hellhole that's turning people into psychos, liars, and double/triple/quadruple agents with agendas and ulterior motives. Bad, manipulative groups out there are now exploiting this and attempting to sway the population in a far more effective way than TV or radio ever could. It's not just people anymore, either - AI is now being used to invent "mass perceptions" of real (or not real) events out of thin air, practically indistinguishable from the way real humans would express themselves, in small enough interactions.

By now, you've most likely read many human-sounding comments posted by an AI on YouTube videos, Twitch chats, online game chat (particularly MMOs), and all of social media - without realizing it. In the latter case, they probably even have a profile picture and a bunch of "photos" that were generated by the same tech as thispersondoesnotexist.com. You've probably seen your fair share of deepfakes without noticing, maybe even some weird ass videos of "world leaders" where something just doesn't seem quite right. When these things are convincing enough, they might just trick you into thinking that a lot of other people in the world are thinking a certain way, when in fact they are not. This is very bad for the human race.

In MGS2, it's explained that the AI eventually got advanced enough to basically just decide that all humans are idiot trash, stopped doing what its designers wanted it to do (sway public opinion for their own personal gain), and totally seized control of the flow of information to create some kind of Matrix-like world that even its creators became trapped in. Now, for us, that last part is still very much sci-fi. We're not quite at that stage yet - we're still in the "use AI to flood the social wires with fake people saying things so we can manufacture outrage and fear, paint a narrative, and seize control" stage. Which, unfortunately for us, is still a very terrible direction for us to be heading in.

Some choice quotes from the famous MGS2 dialogue:

The digital society furthers human flaws and selectively rewards the development of convenient half-truths. Just look at the strange juxtapositions of morality around you. Billions spent on new weapons in order to humanely murder other humans. Rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims. Although there are people suffering in poverty, huge donations are made to protect endangered species.

Everyone grows up being told the same thing. "Be nice to other people." "But beat out the competition!" "You're special." "Believe in yourself and you will succeed." But it's obvious from the start that only a few can succeed... you exercise your right to "freedom" and this is the result. All rhetoric to avoid conflict and protect each other from hurt. The untested truths spun by different interests continue to churn and accumulate in the sandbox of political correctness and value systems.

Everyone withdraws into their own small gated community, afraid of a larger forum. They stay inside their little ponds, leaking whatever "truth" suits them into the growing cesspool of society at large. The different cardinal truths neither clash nor mesh. No one is invalidated, but nobody is right. Not even natural selection can take place here. The world is being engulfed in "truth." And this is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

So they're saying that everyone has their own, cute little "truth", and believes everyone else's truth is wrong because it's not theirs. In reality, there is only one objective truth, and maybe some people are aware of that truth - but the overwhelming flood of fake truths saturating the world ensure that the real one never rises to the top. In this scenario, natural selection has been stopped dead in its tracks, and now only decline, hardship, and regression are possible. We as a species escaped this once, but in an ironic turn of events, the technology that made information and even objective truth free and boundless has been weaponized against us to the point of ultimately sending us back to where we came from. Tribes, caves, ignorance, misunderstanding, and hatred.

There's so much conflicting information being blasted directly in our faces in HD now as a result of social media, it's quite literally impossible for most people to know what is actually true without a hefty amount of manual, physical detective work - so they just take the easy way out and pick a "truth" that they think sounds good to them at the time, usually one that is relatively "comfortable" and easy to swallow because it sounds like something their parents or friends or the TV said once.
 

HoodWinked

Member
The modern iteration is the problem. And machine learning algorithms which have been incentivized to make a hate factory.

When it was the primative Facebook, Myspace, reddit and mostly Anonymous forums like this site, users didn't really have much power over others. Now people weaponize any bit of power they can manage and use it on others.
 

Keihart

Member
The modern iteration is the problem. And machine learning algorithms which have been incentivized to make a hate factory.

When it was the primative Facebook, Myspace, reddit and mostly Anonymous forums like this site, users didn't really have much power over others. Now people weaponize any bit of power they can manage and use it on others.
This.

Discord is by all intents and purposes is a (contemporary) social media platform yet since the monetization is not based on attention economy it works pretty much like smaller forums. (probably even better since threads are static, so it works more like IRC in that sense)
Reddit is an example of how even forums like this can easily get transformed into attention driven platforms thanks to the karma system.

Even on forums like this you are victim of the battle for attention of the threads, but since there is no real "hand" controlling which one floats to the surface and the stakes are rarely high enough for someone to bother gaming the system, most of the time the popular threads are just a reflection of the community thus making it not much of real problem since there is no real gaming of the system to exploit the users.

I think that is really evident that the social aspect of the platforms and internet are not the problem, but how easy is to manipulate and game the system for corporations that are able to use metadata and big data of users as they please, knowing that most users have no real control of it or knowledge of how it affects them, people are not only fed content targeted to them but are also incentivized to create the content itself in a grindy manner to fight for the attention.
 
Last edited:

BigBooper

Member
True, sorta. Has Neogaf or the Yahoo chatrooms back in the day harmed humanity? I don't think so, but who knows? I definitely feel the big ones have, but that may be just because of how big they are, they can excert a lot of control over a lot of people. Would we think Neogaf was harmful to society if it had millions of users and still had the same cultural tone it had before the split? Maybe.

In general, the internet has made information free, thus less valuable and disinformation more valuable.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
We went from carrier pigeon to satellite phones in 200 years. There was never any hope we could adjust to instant telecommunication without unintended consequences. Point being that everything wrong with social media isn't actually the tech, its just us. Its just who we are as monkeys, in all our vapid materialistic glory.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
We went from carrier pigeon to satellite phones in 200 years. There was never any hope we could adjust to instant telecommunication without unintended consequences. Point being that everything wrong with social media isn't actually the tech, its just us. Its just who we are as monkeys, in all our vapid materialistic glory.
True.

I dont think Twitter tech has changed that much since it came out 15 years ago. Writing longer messages and embedding videos are probably the two biggest improvements since it began. Were hashtags invented at the start? Or did those come later?

Yet users totally changed:

From: Short tweets chiming in to tell people what they are doing in the morning

To: Sub hoarding, making careers out of it, shaming, doxxing, getting people fired, politics, corporate profiteering/marketing/PR
 
Last edited:

Liljagare

Member
I think the anonymity combined with no repercussions just opened up a whole new spew spot for people that aren't very sociable outside of the screen. I saw it starting to happen in 1989 at Electrum, and it wasn't pretty back then.

It hasn't really changed much, but it remains the same, awkwards that now have another outlet, and, they are still, awkward, at the best.


Most things should really be talked about face to face, not hidden behind any form of pseudo-anonymity. This also opens up new easy hate channels, for anyone who wants to hate on anything.

A "internet drivers license" might not be a bad idea.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I think the anonymity combined with no repercussions just opened up a whole new spew spot for people that aren't very sociable outside of the screen. I saw it starting to happen in 1989 at Electrum, and it wasn't pretty back then.

It hasn't really changed much, but it remains the same, awkwards that now have another outlet, and, they are still, awkward, at the best.


Most things should really be talked about face to face, not hidden behind any form of pseudo-anonymity. This also opens up new easy hate channels, for anyone who wants to hate on anything.

A "internet drivers license" might not be a bad idea.
Makes sense.

It goes back to what I said earlier about who can handle it and who cant. The best thing for people who are super emotional, irritable and suicidal is to stay away from the deep down junk of the net. Whether it's social media, a game forum or just reading video comments on their YT channel. If you cant take random people ragging on you for whatever reason (or no reason), time to get away. Watch TV, read a book, anything that doesn't have real life responses back.

If someone cant handle it, bail. But most some reason cant. Youd think if something is pissing you off so much in life, you'd just walk, but for many it makes them angrier coming back for more and revenge. And for many leads to more depression.

It's like me having fun yucking it up on Yahoo Stock message boards during the dot.com bust 20 years ago, game forums or sports forums. I can take it and dish it. Dont really care.

If any of you think moderated forums like GAF, Reeee or any other social media app is bad and depressing, you'd probably jump off a bridge if you saw the unmoderated shit going on in the Yahoo boards back then. And for all you guys who waded through those stock boards when Amazon was just getting noticed and Cisco Systems was the talk of the town, you know the hilarious junk that was on those boards.

Zero moderation. Tons of cussing, accusations, doxxing as people would try to get people to tell them their name and location etc.... People would make a million IDs pretending to be someone else, so someone with a user name of william would have a dickish stalker making a user name of vvilliam. Zero moderation. Never saw a post get deleted. At some point after I left those hilarious years they did tidy up the board making it look different and moderated. Now it's got AI moderation like usual stuff like auto-filtering/deleting cussing and such. But back then it was the wild west of stupidity when all most of wanted was finding out news articles from people to make some dot com money.
 
Last edited:

RCU005

Member
Social media became harmful to society the moment it became and ad venue. Remember when Facebook was just about connecting with people and share media with them? Facebook helped me get in touch with friends from middle school that I had not seen in many years, and it was great.

The moment it because just an ad platform, companies started to use Facebook to promote products and it lost it's purpose. Of course it made Facebook money and that's what the owners will ultemately want regardless of the way of doing it.

That, then, became a platform for news to publish their content, and it gave way to start the fake news media. Of course fake news have been around forever, but it was way harder for them to reach massive views.

Then, all these things that Facebook "caused", it allowed for other platforms to be created, and now we have things like Tiktok where people can do anything regardless of integrity, values, danger, etc. all for money.

The only thing that those social media want is money (duh), and they don't care if someone gets hurt, or even start a war. They just want their ad money.
 

EverydayBeast

ChatGPT 0.1
Social media means a lot to unauthentic people, sure seeing headlines on Twitter means something but if you can’t even take your trash out no put that social media down social media deserves to be here but it’s going up against authentic ways of living.
 

farmerboy

Member
Yep. We complained about how the marketing industry only showed the unattainable beauty and perfect versions of ourselves. And instead of fixing it, we gave everyone a chance to project themselves (YOLO everyone) with filters.

Its despicable.

Oh, and the marketing machine has never known us quite so well, what with all the info they collect daily.

Its beyond despicable.
 

Putonahappyface

Gold Member
Pawel Kaczynski nailed social networks in his illustration.

sUKL7Az.jpg
 

Cutty Flam

Banned
Objectively it's a tool that can reveal the true nature of humanity. Whether that's useful or not depends on what your personal views on life are.
Great point, I mostly agree. The internet is best used as a tool. And it can help shape the world to be a much better place. But at the same time, people can be consumed and destroyed by the internet if they don’t have their own restrictions set in place
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
I think the real disease is Smartphones together with social media. They go hand in hand.

People are more depressed, they have unnecessary anxiety. And their life is supported by illusions, more so than ever. And people are getting addicted to it, because it provides instant gratification.

People are addicted, and like any junkie, they don't see the bad in it, and they defend it. People absolutely love how worthless their lives have become.
 
Last edited:

ManaByte

Member

Shortly after this article/documentary released, the Vanity Fair writer deactivated his Twitter account. His final Tweets explained that the platform was nothing but toxic people and Twitter does nothing to stifle that.

If anything they encourage it as other platforms like Instagram have implemented tools to pretty much shut that stuff down. But Twitter encourages it. There's no way to prevent random quote Tweets that are used to brigade people, and their "hide replies" is nothing more than a massive Striesand effect as people are literally pointed to the hidden replies.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member

Shortly after this article/documentary released, the Vanity Fair writer deactivated his Twitter account. His final Tweets explained that the platform was nothing but toxic people and Twitter does nothing to stifle that.

If anything they encourage it as other platforms like Instagram have implemented tools to pretty much shut that stuff down. But Twitter encourages it. There's no way to prevent random quote Tweets that are used to brigade people, and their "hide replies" is nothing more than a massive Striesand effect as people are literally pointed to the hidden replies.
Cool. Its on Netflix. I'll check it out.
 

Porcile

Member
Social media itself is not inherently evil but the companies like Facebook, Twitter and Google who control the huge amounts of information are most definitely.
 

DragoonKain

Neighbours from Hell
When people were getting hit by cars and falling down manholes because they couldn't take their eyes off their phones when crossing the street, it was obvious then.

And that was only stage 1. We're at like stage 5 now.
 
Top Bottom