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[Outdoor Miner]

Ok. At what point in our very recent history did the label "Liberal" begin to take such a negative connotation? It's usually the right-wing conservatives who often throw this word around as if it was some kind of disease?

Someone made a long, detailed, and very excellent post a few months back on this very forum about what it means to be 'liberal' in today's America. I really wish I could find it, but for now let's settle the dictionary's word:

lib·er·al -
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Sub-question: Wouldn't you prefer a media that's liberal by definition? That such a media exists, is largely a myth at this time, but such an observation is beside the point and question here.

 

[Triumph]

It happened around 1994, when Newt & Co. took out the Contract on America.

 

[ge-man]

I'm not sure when it began, but I do think it goes back farther than the 90's. OUr country has been moving towards right of center for a least a couple of decades now.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It happened around 1994, when Newt & Co. took out the Contract on America.

 

[Boogie]

Here in Canada, I sometimes feel it's the opposite, that being called a conservative is considered a negative description.

 

[Diablos]

DON'T LET THE LIBRUL MEDIA TELL YUO HOW TO THINK AND FEEL!

 

[BigJonsson]

There are different types of Liberal ideology so the American right's use of the word Liberal doesn't make sense usually....They really want to say Communist

 

[Socreges]

Here in Canada, I sometimes feel it's the opposite, that being called a conservative is considered a negative description.

Probably. Though, to be fair, I've never met a conservative my age that wasn't a douche.

 

[Nerevar]

There are different types of Liberal ideology so the American right's use of the word Liberal doesn't make sense usually....They really want to say Communist

This is really what it is - here in America, they associate liberalism with communism, so that's the basis of the insult.

 

[BILL CLINTON]

Liberal, being used as a negative, is usually meant to describe out of touch far-left, whereas just saying you are a liberal usually doesnt have a negative connotation.

The hippies made "liberal" a bad thing, many think of damned hippies running around with flowers and what not when they hear "liberal"... Hippies are bad.

 

[etiolate]

COMMIE

 

[Incognito]

Probably. Though, to be fair, I've never met a conservative my age that wasn't a douche.

same here, although i'm in the states. they're completely against any criticism, line of reasoning, or simple logical deductions concerning politics.

 

[way more]

When did weapon development become defense spending?
When did cutting taxes become tax relief?
When did trickle-down economy become supply side economics?
Why do we call illegal POW's enemy combatants?
How did freedom to marry become all about gay marriage?
Or healthy forest policy, and clean-air act which do the opposite they describe.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

When did weapon development become defense spending?
When did cutting taxes become tax relief?
When did trickle-down economy become supply side economics?
Why do we call illegal POW's enemy combatants?
How did freedom to marry become all about gay marriage?
Or healthy forest policy, and clean-air act which do the opposite they describe.

Hmmm, I never thought about it how twisted semantics come into play almost daily. Isn't it funny how the english language can be twisted and manipulated into mulitple meaning, and how subliminal a lot of language is if you're not paying attention.....

 

[BILL CLINTON]

the best at coming up with nice sounding names is the military..

and this is not just our military, even though its the best at it, but all militarys..

PEACEKEEPERS is an amazing name really.. as politically they are and can be described as "peace keepers" but in reality, there job is to kill.. so it would make more sense to call them "KILLERS" or "SOUL KEEPERS" or something..

but i absolutely adore pentagon naming..

operation iraqi freedom is amazing... considering the freedom began with a shock & awe campaign.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

A liberal, by definition, is someone who favors freedom, so by trying to make 'liberal' into a dirty word today's American Right has shown that it hates freedom, just like the terrorists.

 

[Boogie]

the best at coming up with nice sounding names is the military..

and this is not just our military, even though its the best at it, but all militarys..

PEACEKEEPERS is an amazing name really.. as politically they are and can be described as "peace keepers" but in reality, there job is to kill.. so it would make more sense to call them "KILLERS" or "SOUL KEEPERS" or something..

but i absolutely adore pentagon naming..

operation iraqi freedom is amazing... considering the freedom began with a shock & awe campaign.

On the contrary, I'd say UN "Peacekeepers" is an accurate description of their role.

 

[impirius]

Politics has a way of making words lose their meaning. Democrats and Republicans aren't called what they are because they favor a democracy or a republic.

I guess the term became corrupted to mean people who think that the government should use its power and influence liberally. That's just a shot in the dark, though.

 

[Makura]

1. Self-hatred.
2. Blame America first
3. Moral relativism
4. Hatred for financial success - legitimate or otherwise
5. Relentless targeting and mockery of Judeo-Christian values and institutions
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Most Americans love this country, practice a Judeo-Christian faith, and belive in right and wrong - my guess is thats probably is why "liberal" has become such a maligned term/label.

 

[firex]

Ok. At what point in our very recent history did the label "Liberal" begin to take such a negative connotation? It's usually the right-wing conservatives who often throw this word around as if it was some kind of disease?

Someone made a long, detailed, and very excellent post a few months back on this very forum about what it means to be 'liberal' in today's America. I really wish I could find it, but for now let's settle the dictionary's word:

lib·er·al -
1. Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
2. Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
3. Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
4. Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Sub-question: Wouldn't you prefer a media that's liberal by definition? That such a media exists, is largely a myth at this time, but such an observation is beside the point and question here.

I think you can trace the start back to the first term of the Reagan administration.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I think what Makura is trying to say is that it's not the dictionary definition of the word, it's the politics of the people who take the label.

Here's a highly simplified version of what happened to me when I went to college:

Chris: Here I am at college. Wow!
???: Hi Chris! Welcome to college.
Chris: Hi, who are you?
???: We are liberals!
Chris: Wow, that sounds really wonderful. Maybe I can be one too. What are liberals exactly?
Liberals: Well, we believe in [a whole bunch of stuff that Chris finds silly at best and morally repugnant at worst]!
Chris: Wow, I guess I am not a liberal! See you later!
Liberals: No problem. Have a fun four years of college, and remember that if you ever offer your opinion on anything whatsoever we will call you a racist homophobe.

 

[Makura]

Chris: Here I am at college. Wow!

:lol

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

I think what Makura is trying to say is that it's not the dictionary definition of the word, it's the politics of the people who take the label.

So why don't the Republicans try to reclaim the label, declaring themselves to be the REAL liberals, instead of using it as an epithet?

 

[Dilbert]

1. Self-hatred.
2. Blame America first
3. Moral relativism
4. Hatred for financial success - legitimate or otherwise
5. Relentless targeting and mockery of Judeo-Christian values and institutions
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Most Americans love this country, practice a Judeo-Christian faith, and belive in right and wrong - my guess is thats probably is why "liberal" has become such a maligned term/label.

Holy shit.

Dude, seriously...I want to meet you somewhere, and punch you in the mouth. You are so infuriatingly, offensively obtuse that I don't know how to deal with you anymore. You are like the output of the Play-Doh "Build Your Own Fringe Republican" playset. You are like a Muppet being voiced by a fascist.

Seriously.

 

[Incognito]

Holy shit.

Dude, seriously...I want to meet you somewhere, and punch you in the mouth. You are so infuriatingly, offensively obtuse that I don't know how to deal with you anymore. You are like the output of the Play-Doh "Build Your Own Fringe Republican" playset. You are like a Muppet being voiced by a fascist.

Seriously.

thank u for stating what i had in mind.

 

[impirius]

So why don't the Republicans try to reclaim the label, declaring themselves to be the REAL liberals, instead of using it as an epithet?

After working so hard over the years to give the word a negative connotation?

 

[Kobun Heat]

So why don't the Republicans try to reclaim the label, declaring themselves to be the REAL liberals, instead of using it as an epithet?

Because it's already associated with a certain ideology. Like so many words, it has taken on a weight and a meaning seperate from its dictionary definition. Another example would be "conservative."

 

[Dilbert]

No, it's being used as a wedge label. The American right -- especially the far-right wackos who monopolize AM radio and cable TV news shows -- has started using language as a weapon, and also have managed to sneak in the principle that disagreement is treasonous. It's a fucked up combination, to say the least.

 

[firex]

Thanks to the internet, when I think of conservative, I think of the word "asshole."

 

[Hitokage]

1. Self-hatred.
2. Blame America first
3. Moral relativism
4. Hatred for financial success - legitimate or otherwise
5. Relentless targeting and mockery of Judeo-Christian values and institutions
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Most Americans love this country, practice a Judeo-Christian faith, and belive in right and wrong - my guess is thats probably is why "liberal" has become such a maligned term/label.

How does owning up to mistakes contradict a love for self or country? Do you completely ignore what a child does in the name of love? Newsflash: America has fucked up before, big time... but we can pick up and do better. It's also nice how you completely ignore that it's the presence of religion in LEGISLATION that liberals dispise. Freedom of religion is a consitutionally protected right, and it'd be nice for others to not impose their religious beliefs on each other... because no matter how many people are christian, christians do not have any more rights than practitioners of any other religion.

BTW, social darwinism is bogus, and wealth tends to have inertia. Considering the huge inequalities that have existed in the past, that's a big problem.

 

[Matt]

The use of “liberal” by modern conservatives is a better example of newspeak then anything in 1984.

 

[Mike Works]

Heh, in regards to the Canadian/Conservative parallel, I was chatting up this cute girl I'd just met, and after exchanging names and such, the conversation went;

<Mike> Oh, so did you vote this year?

<Girl> Yeah, I voted Conservative.

<Mike> Wow, really? You're the first person I've met who's voted for the Conservatives.

<Girl> Really? I assume you voted for the Liberals.

<Mike> Well I almost voted for the Libertarians because I saw their party name on the ballot first, and assumed that was the "official" name of the Liberals, but yeah, I did.

<Girl> Why did you vote for them?

<Mike> Well I didn't follow the issues too strongly, and I realized they fucked up with our money a lot, but I'm pretty strongly in the Pro-Choice camp, and I view the Conservatives as just too strict, almost adhering to similar strict Christian guidelines. Why'd you vote for them?

<Girl> Well I'm very religious and Pro-Life.

<Mike> Prodestant?

<Girl> Yes.

<Mike> Well it was really nice talking to you.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

Because it's already associated with a certain ideology. Like so many words, it has taken on a weight and a meaning seperate from its dictionary definition. Another example would be "conservative."

Yet I've seen plenty of liberals, including John Kerry, argue that Bush and today's American instutional Right are not conservative in the true sense of the word, and that they (liberals) in fact better represent true conservatism as well as liberalism. Why haven't I seen the reverse argument made by the other side outside obscure intellectual corners? I think this is evidence that the supporters of the institutional Right are hostile not only towards the positions currently associated with the 'liberal' label in America but towards liberalism in general.

In other words, they hate freedom (just like the terrorists).

Today's American 'conservative' movement is both unconservative and illiberal.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

1. Self-hatred.
2. Blame America first
3. Moral relativism
4. Hatred for financial success - legitimate or otherwise
5. Relentless targeting and mockery of Judeo-Christian values and institutions
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Most Americans love this country, practice a Judeo-Christian faith, and belive in right and wrong - my guess is thats probably is why "liberal" has become such a maligned term/label.

right and wrong? fuck - don't get me started.

 

[Pattergen]

<Mike> Well it was really nice talking to you.

:lol

 

[Cerebral Palsy]

As opposed to conservatives...

1. Hatred of anyone at all different from themselves
2. Blame anyone but themselves and their country
3. Moral absolutism-- their way or the highway
4. Exaltation of financial success, no matter whether legitimate or not. Hatred for poor people
5. Relentless attempts to force their religion onto everybody else
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Beat me to it.

 

[Dead]

1. Self-hatred.
2. Blame America first
3. Moral relativism
4. Hatred for financial success - legitimate or otherwise
5. Relentless targeting and mockery of Judeo-Christian values and institutions
6. etc.
7. etc.....

Most Americans love this country, practice a Judeo-Christian faith, and belive in right and wrong - my guess is thats probably is why "liberal" has become such a maligned term/label.

holy shit

 

[Drozmight]

Loving this country and loving it's government are two different things. I love america, but I think our government has lost it's mind. Conservatives make it seem like if you hate the president, you hate a america. That mind-set irks me so much.

 

[LushRimbaugh]

When people tell me they are liberals I can't help but start to dislike them. It's sad but true.

 

[GG-Duo]

I strongly believe that "Christians" who support Bush's policies do not follow the fundamental Christian faith. They are following a twisted perversion.

 

[LushRimbaugh]

I am conservative and am not at all religious.

 

[GG-Duo]

I am conservative and am not at all religious.

I see....

???

 

[LushRimbaugh]

I follow a twisted perversion.


where people make there own decisions

work hard and keep what they earn

dont act on emotions

that kind of thing

 

[GG-Duo]

Ah, my post wasn't clear, edited

where people make there own decisions

work hard and keep what they earn

dont act on emotions

that kind of thing

Rock on. A lot of the people you dislike are like that, too.

 

[Drozmight]

When people tell me they are liberals I can't help but start to dislike them. It's sad but true.

When people tell me they are conservative I can't help but think of them as fascist. Not that I immediatly hate anyone, but a lot of conservatives strike me as dictatorial.

 

[FightyF]

dont act on emotions

I disagree, the Republican party seems to act on emotions.

Oh wait, I'm wrong, they seem to exploit people's emotions.

 

[FightyF]

I'm conservative BTW.

But I'm not Republican. The Republicans are giving conservatism a really bad name.

 

[videogamer]

I'm conservative BTW.

But I'm not Republican. The Republicans are giving conservatism a really bad name.

Aren't you Canadian, making it pointless to affiliate yourself with American political parties?

 

[Mike Works]

heh

Last Post

Today 09:11 PM
by Fight for Freeform

 

[LushRimbaugh]

Liberals do what makes them feel good.

Conservatives do what is right/efficient.

Prime example is the thread about Kerry raising minimum wage. There is no way that raising the minumum wage is a good thing. It makes people FEEL like something is better, when it isn't.