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Linux Distro Noob thread of Linux noobs
- Thread starter Flying_Phoenix
- Start date
I meant the GNOME remix specifically.
You can upgrade to 12.10 and then install the ubuntu-gnome-desktop package to switch to the GNOME remix.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
I meant the GNOME remix specifically.
You can upgrade to 12.10 and then install the ubuntu-gnome-desktop package to switch to the GNOME remix.
Oh cool.
12.10 is out in a few days right?
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
You can already grab the 2nd Alpha that's a few weeks old...
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGNOME/ReleaseNotes/12.10Alpha2
Of course it'll update to the latest version of the daily after you install. Only thing I'm iffy is if the Gnome Remix will be ready for release along with the rest of Ubuntu 12.10. Usually all of the official Ubuntu remixes all launch the same day as base Ubuntu.
October 18th is the scheduled launch day for Ubuntu 12.10. You can only hope that the Gnome Remix is stable by then to launch along with all of the other Ubuntu stuff like Xubuntu or Kubuntu.
PS: I'll start working on the new |OT| next week, and yes I'll add the Gnome Remix into my usual list of other distros.
PPS: I'll post later about something tangently related to Linux later after an experience I had yesterday.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I thought so, but the wiki is confusing to find the link to the beta. Plus I didn't spend enough time on the google for it.
Thanks for the link!
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
"You can already grab the... alpha..."
Yeah... I don't do alpha software.
Edit- Put Gnome Remix at the top of the OT, it's the only one that matters!
Yeah... I don't do alpha software.
Edit- Put Gnome Remix at the top of the OT, it's the only one that matters!
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
"You can already grab the... alpha..."
Yeah... I don't do alpha software.
Well I was pretty sure it was either at or almost at beta status ergo the install, and update it because the build is weeks old.
PS: You've used Android for a while, and I'd definitely call some of the early releases of Android Alpha like. *Yeah I went there bitches!!!*
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
My first Android phone came preinstalled with ICS. :O
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
The Android emulator images for 1.x were definitely beta-y (1.0 and 1.1 had the feeling of alpha, 1.5 and 1.6 were beta-y.) 2.x was pretty solid I thought, Froyo was particularly great.
Linux has been on fire lately I have to say, everything is just coming together. Gnome shaping up, System 76 becoming more of a player, the Steam beta... 2012 is the year of Linux.
Interesting. I stand corrected!
PS: Man this is the best I've felt in weeks!
Linux has been on fire lately I have to say, everything is just coming together. Gnome shaping up, System 76 becoming more of a player, the Steam beta... 2012 is the year of Linux.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
I know it's a few weeks old now (and yes there is wine), but it's crazy to be playing a game like Torchlight natively on Linux. Plus Runic's pumped out a few updated builds, and the game runs fairly well for me too!
I bought the game, but I still have yet to actually play it. My build is out of date too, probably.
I've been spending too much time with FTL. (Finally beat it... on easy mode, lol.)
Is anyone familiar with why Lennart Poettering is hated in some circles? Is it only because of him pushing Pulseaudio and Systemd, and if so, what about these systems is so bad that it inspires all this? I mean Pulseaudio broke my audio a bit in the beginning but seems fine now, is there more to it than that? What are the reasons for distributions picking the systems up even with these disadvantages? I know too little of low level systems to understand all this.
Edit: Removed a stupid, leading question...
Edit: Removed a stupid, leading question...
I don't want to start any arguments in this thread over them but I'm personally not a fan of either. Pulseaudio I could safely just ignore but with systemd it's a bit more of an issue since they decided to merge udev with it. I've avoided it fine so far and udev being forked should ensure I can avoid it in the future but that's still not a guarantee.
I think it was mostly that. Wasn't "the beginning" like a couple of years or so, though? Probably should have pushed it later than they actually did...
As for systemd, I think people tend to not like it because it replaced a mostly text interface with a binary ones (?) And part of the UNIX ethos is that text is the universal interface.
From the Unix philosphy wikipedia page:
Doug McIlroy said:
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
A few days old, but Linus decided to just push the 3.6 kernel last Sunday verses just pushing another RC.You can read the Kernel Newbies Change Log HERE.
Highlights Include:
PS: I'll be interested to see if the devs push to 3.6 for Ubuntu 12.10 this late in the process or if they stick with 3.5. 3.6 should be a good for the next Fedora release though!
Highlights Include:
Linux 3.6 has been released on 30 Sep 2012
Summary: This Linux release includes new features in Btrfs: subvolume quotas, quota groups and snapshot diffs (aka "send/receive"). It also includes support for suspending to disk and memory at the same time, a TCP "Fast Open" mode, a "TCP small queues" feature to fight bufferbloat; support for safe swapping over NFS/NBD, better Ext4 quota support, support for the PCIe D3cold power state; and VFIO, which allows safe access from guest drivers to bare-metal host devices. Many small features and new drivers and fixes are also available.
Summary: This Linux release includes new features in Btrfs: subvolume quotas, quota groups and snapshot diffs (aka "send/receive"). It also includes support for suspending to disk and memory at the same time, a TCP "Fast Open" mode, a "TCP small queues" feature to fight bufferbloat; support for safe swapping over NFS/NBD, better Ext4 quota support, support for the PCIe D3cold power state; and VFIO, which allows safe access from guest drivers to bare-metal host devices. Many small features and new drivers and fixes are also available.
PS: I'll be interested to see if the devs push to 3.6 for Ubuntu 12.10 this late in the process or if they stick with 3.5. 3.6 should be a good for the next Fedora release though!
Thanks, this is one argument that I've heard (and seen counterarguments to, but that's another story).
I guess for me the specifics don't really matter as long as stuff works so it's just out of curiosity I'm asking.
lol I remember I was SO against pulseaudio when it started to become popular. I used OSS4 back then instead, and had tried pulse on an Ubuntu install and hated it. But then Gnome 3 came out and for some reason it depends on pulseaudio. So I had to remove OSS4 and install pulseaudio instead. I was furious at first haha. But by that point, pulse had actually become rather good and it had a couple of features that I really liked so I learned to like it. For example being able to easily switch between different sound cards was not so easy to do with plain ALSA or OSS4 without rebooting or restarting the sound system, but with pulseaudio it even switches automatically to my USB DAC when I simply plug it in. And if I turn it off it switches to my laptop's internal sound card again. It even does this while the DAC or sound card is in use. Sounds like a simple enough feature, but this was really not easy at all with ALSA or OSS. And of course it has the mixer to play sound from multiple sources at once (though OSS4 has that too). So in the end it turned out ok and it made audio on Linux much easier for the average user.
There was one feature which I really liked which let you basically use a soundcard in a remote computer on the LAN, on your local computer. So I could use my server's Soundblaster Audigy 2 on my netbook for example. It was really neat, but some time ago it stopped working and I stopped using it. Now I can't remember what it was called. Anyone know? And have they still not fixed it yet?
There was one feature which I really liked which let you basically use a soundcard in a remote computer on the LAN, on your local computer. So I could use my server's Soundblaster Audigy 2 on my netbook for example. It was really neat, but some time ago it stopped working and I stopped using it. Now I can't remember what it was called. Anyone know? And have they still not fixed it yet?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Man my Gnome 3.4/Ubuntu setup was crashing/freezing hard a few minutes ago. First time in the two months since I got this laptop. On hard reboot, I got a brief "can't connect to hard drive" message in Ubuntu, but then the login screen came up.
Gotta admit, it's got me pretty rattled... don't know what could have caused it.
Gotta admit, it's got me pretty rattled... don't know what could have caused it.
Maybe your hard drive is failing? I would update my backups if I were you...
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Noooooooooooo
How do I shot backups?
How do I shot backups?
There's a backup utility installed by default, just launch that.
No binary interface, systemd uses simple and readable text files.
For example, here's Arch's script to launch MySQL with sysvinit:
Code:
#!/bin/bash
# general config
. /etc/rc.conf
. /etc/rc.d/functions
getPID() {
echo $(pgrep -u mysql mysqld 2>/dev/null);
}
case "$1" in
start)
stat_busy "Starting MySQL Server"
[ ! -d /run/mysqld ] && install -d -g mysql -o mysql /run/mysqld &>/dev/null
if [ -z "$(getPID)" ]; then
/usr/bin/mysqld_safe --user=mysql &>/dev/null &
if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
stat_fail
exit 1
else
timeo=30
while [ $timeo -gt 0 ]; do
response=`/usr/bin/mysqladmin -uUNKNOWN_USER ping 2>&1` && break
echo "$response" | grep -q "mysqld is alive" && break
sleep 1
let timeo=${timeo}-1
done
if [ $timeo -eq 0 ]; then
stat_fail
exit 1
else
echo $(getPID) > /run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
add_daemon mysqld
stat_done
fi
fi
else
stat_fail
exit 1
fi
;;
stop)
stat_busy "Stopping MySQL Server"
if [ ! -z "$(getPID)" ]; then
timeo=30
kill $(getPID) &> /dev/null
if [ $? -gt 0 ]; then
stat_fail
exit 1
fi
while [ ! -z "$(getPID)" -a $timeo -gt 0 ]; do
sleep 1
let timeo=${timeo}-1
done
if [ -z "$(getPID)" ]; then
rm -f /run/mysqld/mysqld.pid &>/dev/null
rm_daemon mysqld
stat_done
else
stat_fail
exit 1
fi
else
stat_fail
exit 1
fi
;;
restart)
$0 stop
$0 start
;;
*)
echo "usage: $0 {start|stop|restart}"
esac
exit 0And here's the file to do the same thing in systemd:
Code:
[Unit]
Description=MySQL Server
[Service]
User=mysql
ExecStart=/usr/bin/mysqld --user=mysql
ExecStartPost=/usr/bin/mysqld-post
Restart=always
[Install]
WantedBy=multi-user.targetIt uses binary log files. As for me I prefer shell scripts to systemd's service files.
I wasn't really thinking of the Journal but you can keep using syslog if you want. You can also start your own shell scripts with systemd, but I'm guessing you know that already.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Problem with Pulse Audio is a problem I have with a lot of new "cutting edge" Linux stuff in general. Most of the stuff is good ideas, but they get pushed to mainstays in distros when the ideas are only half baked. They do this partly to help speed up development though because of the way a lot of distro development works. If it didn't get pushed it wouldn't get priority.
That being said a lot of things get pushed to the end user to early like Pulse Audio (who didn't have random WTF Pulse Audio issues back in the day?). I don't know of a better way to get around this idea though.
Thankfully we seem to be over a lot of the initial growing pains, and we have viable alternatives to roll with that aren't hella old and out dated while new things try and get their kinks worked out. A good example of this IMO is btrfs as it could have been pushed as the main default file system years ago for many distros, but a lot have held off while still giving you btrfs as a secondary option. It helps when you have something like ext4 to fall back on as your default though. Back in the day they didn't really have this option.
I wasn't really thinking of the Journal but you can keep using syslog if you want. You can also start your own shell scripts with systemd, but I'm guessing you know that already.
I knew about being to run my own syslog daemon but not about being able to continue to use shell scripts. Do you mean launching shell scripts within service files or launching services from shell scripts (without needing to use systemctl) because the latter is what I'm more concerned about. Regardless at the point where I'm replacing many parts of systemd then I'd ask myself why am I even using it. I currently use OpenRC and it works fine for me. There are other issues I have with it as well.
I don't just outright hate it and I can see the benefit of some of what it offers. My gripe is probably mostly due to how much it changes and integrates compared to what I'm used to using from years of working with Linux (and what I consider to work better). Had I just got into it then maybe I wouldn't care so much.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Same for Gnome 2, KDE4, Gnome 3, Unity, etc. But you said it yourself, the only way to get real dev momentum going is to put it front and center so that devs throw their hands up and say "this sucks so much I'm going to do something about it."
I don't think you should give users bad software just to speed up development....
I would actually say that it's a bad idea in general...
I mean, at least with systemd, it actually works, even if you disagree with some of its operation.
Lol, that would have been horrible, as btrfs lacked many tools many consider important to file systems. I mean, I think btrfs-fsck was released this year...
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
It's a bad idea, but it's how the Linux ecosystem works. There aren't enough devs to go around.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
This is less of an issue now as a lot of kinks have been worked out and/or have solid replacements. In the earlier days of Linux they didn't have much of a choice though.
I don't think that's true at all.
Actually, I would say that it's usually not true.
That is a comment about the first statement.
As far as the second statement goes, I don't think that'st true either, since I'm not sure what "aren't enough devs" actually means. It's not like there is some hard deadline they have to march towards. (and it's not as though adding lots of people makes projects go faster... to a certain extend, it's the opposite effect.)
I would argue that the whole pulse audio thing isn't really "early days". I mean, it's not like ALSA (userland or wtv you call it. I have trouble separating the two ALSA's by name) didn't exist at the time. They had a working audio solution, so I'm not sure why they wouldn't just wait for the replacement to actually be ready. There was no rush.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
True. It's earlier days than now though. Honestly I think the turning point for Linux really has happened in the past few years around the time this thread was created actually. Early/Mid days I guess I should say.
Ok, this is it for me, I don't fucking care if you can disable it.
It looks like Canonical has followed the trend settled by both Microsoft and Apple of making an OS suited to their own needs instead of suited to the user needs. If they are going to follow this path with Ubuntu, they can be sure it's not going to be with my support. Which are the best user-friendly alternatives?
It looks like Canonical has followed the trend settled by both Microsoft and Apple of making an OS suited to their own needs instead of suited to the user needs. If they are going to follow this path with Ubuntu, they can be sure it's not going to be with my support. Which are the best user-friendly alternatives?
I meant the usual rc.local script, where you can put your custom commands to run after every boot. systemctl is still the way to enable and disable services and stuff, which I understand is a little too much for the crowed that uses BSD-style init (if you were used to SysV style scripts then it's a piece of cake).
I can understand people not liking systemd just fine, it is a departure from something that's worked a certain way for decades now. The only thing that really gets me is how over the top some of the comments people make about Lennart are.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
Fedora or Gnomebuntu~
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Don't forget the base standard in the deb world is Debian, and we should be getting a new release of that sometime in early 2013 to bring it up to something more modern.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Still amazed we have a native version of Torchlight for Linux now (just played some more after getting done watching football).
Hmm, there must be something wrong with my drivers.
Only the bruttish warrior guy has a face, the other player characters are faceless for me.
Elfforkusu
Member
I think the "hate" might be because he's been fairly vocal about doing linux-only development (vs conforming to posix api calls) for the purposes of flexibility and simplicity in the dev cycle.
I happen to agree with him.
re: pulseaudio, configuring ALSA was always a huge pain in the ass. Basically impossible without immense effort. For that reason I didn't feel the pulseaudio was rushed, even if it was (and still is with some lacking ui stuff) a bit buggy.
You can still use one of the 100 spin offs, including Linux Mint, if you want the benefit of the Ubuntu dev/testing ecosystem but don't want Unity or (in this case) stupid store nonsense all up in your grill.
This is a fairly dubious assertion. We don't have exact numbers for Microsoft and Apple, but for core kernel development or even low level OS features, I have to imagine Linux has them outclassed by an order of magnitude. Instead of one company driving activity, you have many.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
No I get that too. It worked for my dude at 1st, but then I got this hood thing, and there's no face now. I think it's just a bug, and it has to do with what helm you have on. It's only in the main character select screen for me so I don't really care. Top down view in game makes it basically irrelevant.
PS: On a side note and maybe this already exists but I wish I could make it so the dash in Ubuntu cleared back the nothing verses keeping the last thing you typed in when reclick. I guess it could be annoying if you accidentally click off, but give me a toggle. That or just keep the type saved for like 30 seconds or something.
I should actually play.
For some reason, I've been really shallow. I'm afraid that there will be a closeup at some point and my avatar will be missing a face :3
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
So Linux-GAF what browser does everyone use since Linux versions can sometimes be a tad different than their Windows or OSX counterparts?!?!
archnemesis
Member
I use the same browser on Win 7, OS X, and Ubuntu LTS, Firefox 15.0.1. I'm too dependent on add-ons to use anything else.
Firefox
I've tried multiple to get used to Chrome but it never works out. I can't replicate my extension set in Chrome and until I can I won't bother using it as my main browser. I also don't like the lack of options. Going into the settings in Chrome you see they try and keep things simple but I prefer the way Firefox just gives you lots of options on top of the ones they keep hidden. It does render pages fast but not fast enough that I regret sticking to Firefox.
I've tried multiple to get used to Chrome but it never works out. I can't replicate my extension set in Chrome and until I can I won't bother using it as my main browser. I also don't like the lack of options. Going into the settings in Chrome you see they try and keep things simple but I prefer the way Firefox just gives you lots of options on top of the ones they keep hidden. It does render pages fast but not fast enough that I regret sticking to Firefox.
Firefox across all my devices. I tried Chromium and Chrome for a while, but came back to the loving embrace of Firefox after a few months. The Mozilla Foundation can be jerks sometimes, but I trust them more to do the right thing than I do with Google.
That said, there really aren't any good browsers. They are all pretty average. When you add Flash into the equation as well, all browsers turn into being horrible instead of average.
That said, there really aren't any good browsers. They are all pretty average. When you add Flash into the equation as well, all browsers turn into being horrible instead of average.
Yeah another Firefox user here. 64bit version provided by the official Arch repos. I was also using Chromium on my Atom N270 netbook for a bit because Firefox was too slow to be useable on it around Firefox 4. But now it's much faster so I can use it on that computer too. I still have Chromium installed on all my computers though. You never know when you need a different browser to test things out.