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[andthebeatgoeson]

Postcall intern. Worth Zero Dollars.

Sleeping from 9am to 4pm, only to realize that you won't be able to go to sleep in enough time the following night to get up by 6am, rested: Worth Zero Dollars.

Being advised to get out of this field with you youth and sanity: Priceless.


You have been warned.

 

[bjork]

that picture is racist

don't encourage the white man

 

[Incognito]

whats ur field?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

gen surg...

Skinny am crying. Bomb bomb.

 

[Loki]

Postcall intern. Worth Zero Dollars.

Sleeping from 9am to 4pm, only to realize that you won't be able to go to sleep in enough time the following night to get up by 6am, rested: Worth Zero Dollars.

Being advised to get out of this field with you youth and sanity: Priceless.


You have been warned.

Geez, sorry to hear that. Yeah, general surgery residency is considered the most grueling one from what I hear. This is your internship year (first year), right? Best of luck with those 100+ hour weeks-- thank God for that 80-hour rule, eh? Imagine before that law that the average number of hours/week in most residencies was 100-110 hours, with gen. surg. putting in like 120? Crazy....I feel for ya. : /


Don't fret-- by third year, you'll "only" be putting in ~90 hours/week from what I hear. Obviously, that doesn't include studying/research.


EDIT: But why aren't you getting paid (sub-minimum wage residency for 3-6 years rocks! )? Do you mean that you're doing your surgical rotation for your third year of med school? Because that would explain it.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Actually, I've been working between 80-88 hours, tops. What sucks is that, even after leaving at 9am, you feel like shit and those that came before me, put in at least 20+ hours in previous years before the 80 hour workweek law. My program is compliant and I'm happy for it, but I just slept thru a 2 hour conference this morning. I feel like a douche.

It's not that bad tho, except for the days where it is bad. 60 percent of the time, it's great. It's just those calls that get me down. And it takes, most times, a full day to recover.

Either way, I don't think about it much but thank god for that law. We don't have the experience from before to judge and compare. But I think I am putting in some hours similar to int med or maybe just a lil less.

Every 4 days, I'll be hopping on here to vent. Just excuse me.

But be warned. Go win the lottery or something.

 

[way more]

Ha ha, you've still got residency to face.

But we're proud of you, I sure as hell coudn't handle it.

Good luck with all that.

 

[videogamer]

OMG. Waaaahhh. I know it's bad... but let's try to not think about it.

/me hopes pharmacy schools take pity

 

[Loki]

Well you're lucky that your program is compliant, then-- LOTS of programs still skirt the rule from what I hear, for various reasons: some hospitals are just overburdened, and there is a lot of backlash against the 80-hour rule from older physicians (who, like I said, used to put in 100-120 hours/week)-- not out of jealousy, or because they feel you're "getting off easy", but from what I hear (and it makes sense in a way), they feel that you're essentially cutting a 5 year residency into 4 years if you lower the hours by 20%. They feel that today's physicians consequently aren't getting the same type of learning experience as those in years past did. In fact, the term "residency" arose because doctors actually used to live in the hopsitals during those years (literally-- as in sleeping/eating/bathing etc.); if you visit some older hospitals, you can still find some residence halls. Then, of course, there's the other school of thought that says "if you can't learn something in 80-90 hours/week, then something is just wrong". In either case, then or now, people always forget that those 80-100+ hours are just the residency-- it doesn't (from what I've heard) factor in study or research time etc. Do you find that to be the case? Or do you have enough down time while on-call to keep up with studying?


And there are people in this country who want physicians to be paid $80-90K, like in Canada. Yeah, real fair. :lol I have all the respect in the world for you, dude. Keep your head up. Nobody will mind your venting, I'm sure. General surgery residency is just, well...insane.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Heh heh... something to look forward to!

That sucks man, I feel for ya. I really do. I'll do my best to try and win the Powerball. If I do, I'll split it with all the other pre-meds/meds/pharm guys on here.

Man, makes my griping about Physiology seem like peanuts.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Well you're lucky that your program is compliant, then-- LOTS of programs still skirt the rule from what I hear, for various reasons: some hospitals are just overburdened, and there is a lot of backlash against the 80-hour rule from older physicians (who, like I said, used to put in 100-120 hours/week)-- not out of jealousy, or because they feel you're "getting off easy", but from what I hear (and it makes sense in a way), they feel that you're essentially cutting a 5 year residency into 4 years if you lower the hours by 20%.

So...when did the medical community become a frat house?

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Well you're lucky that your program is compliant, then-- LOTS of programs still skirt the rule from what I hear, for various reasons: some hospitals are just overburdened, and there is a lot of backlash against the 80-hour rule from older physicians (who, like I said, used to put in 100-120 hours/week)-- not out of jealousy, or because they feel you're "getting off easy", but from what I hear (and it makes sense in a way), they feel that you're essentially cutting a 5 year residency into 4 years if you lower the hours by 20%. They feel that today's physicians consequently aren't getting the same type of learning experience as those in years past did. In fact, the term "residency" arose because doctors actually used to live in the hopsitals during those years (literally-- as in sleeping/eating/bathing etc.); if you visit some older hospitals, you can still find some residence halls. Then, of course, there's the other school of thought that says "if you can't learn something in 80-90 hours/week, then something is just wrong". In either case, then or now, people always forget that those 80-100+ hours are just the residency-- it doesn't (from what I've heard) factor in study or research time etc. Do you find that to be the case? Or do you have enough down time while on-call to keep up with studying?


And there are people in this country who want physicians to be paid $80-90K, like in Canada. Yeah, real fair. :lol I have all the respect in the world for you, dude. Keep your head up. Nobody will mind your venting, I'm sure. General surgery residency is just, well...insane.

Residents, in-house, house officer, etc. They all had simpler meanings in the past.

Now, I have a ton of time to study and I find myself putting time in to study almost everyday. You have to and now, we have a lot more time to do it. An hour here or there and it starts to add up.

As for compliance, my buddy is in Boston for gen surg and his hospital gives the finger to the rules. But he survives and I guess, is alright. You are right that older docs feel you won't get the same education by not being there and I guess they are grappling with the emotion to extend some residencies with an extra year in order to make up the difference. I haven't heard serious discussion so I don't want to scare you guys but the thought behind any resistance to the work hours is loss of education. There's two options: extend the residency to make up the hours or hope it won't make that much of an impact. I can only guess that if the resident's who fall under these rules are not up to par on there boards after residency in a few years, you might see a bigger push to extend the residency. That won't happen for another 2-5 years since the law went into effect last year and those residents won't start graduating until at least 2 years from now. But it is something to think about.

But programs have adapted, especially mine. I leave by at least 9 am and at times, at 7 am. And I think here in Philly/south Jersey, most programs are compliant, that I have heard of but it's probably different around the country and I probably don't have the full scoop.

 

[Loki]

So...when did the medical community become a frat house?

Huh? I'm confused as to what you're saying. If you're alluding to some sort of clannish mentality among older physicians, well, like I said, the issue is a bit more complex than that, and they have legitimate reasons for feeling the way they do about what they perceive to be more lax standards nowadays.


Skinny:

Yeah, you're right-- most (if not all) of the objection to the 80-hour rule is due to the feeling that it dilutes the teaching experience. Increasing residency lengths is NOT something I see happening for various reasons (though who knows-- hopsitals would love to keep their indentured ser-- err, "residents", an extra year or two; they pay the residents $40-45K per year yet receive $150-200K per year for each resident from the government, so it's a cash cow for them-- with the insolvency of many hopsitals, they need all the cash they can get); if anything, the push is to make residency shorter (though I don't necessarily agree with that either), with people pointing out that residencies in Europe etc. are often only 50-75% as long as they are here (in terms of years), plus they have laws mandating that no more than 60 hours/week can be worked during residency (as opposed to the US' 100-120/week until a couple of years ago and 80+ even now). So, in essence, you're looking at nearly TWICE as much education (in terms of hours in residency) here in the US than you are in other countries. So longer residencies is not something I foresee happening-- in fact, we're witnessing precisely the opposite trend, with all the new "combined" 5-7 year residencies (dual specialty, which would have taken 7-8 years to do individually); still, there is tremendous resistance to these sorts of things from the medical establishment from what I hear, and there are definitely decent arguments to be made on all sides. It's a very complex issue, to be certain.


Again, best of luck with everything.

 

[Incognito]

In fact, the term "residency" arose because doctors actually used to live in the hopsitals during those years (literally-- as in sleeping/eating/bathing etc.); if you visit some older hospitals, you can still find some residence halls.

heh, the hospital i've been attending the last 8 years is littered with halls the likes of which you just described. the hospital itself is around 40-50 years old, with marginal improvements over time, but on the general surgery floor, it's like a damn hotel.