Long time CRT user, i need a good gaming monitor for PC.

nkarafo

nkarafo

Member
What the title says. After 15+ years of smooth and sharp gaming on a CRT monitor (emphasis on sharp), i find it really hard to find a good LCD/LED/Whatever monitor to replace it. I don't really want to replace it but my main CRT monitor died and im now using my backup CRT monitor. And that backup is a 12+ year old used monitor so... i don't think it will last.

I wish i could just buy a new CRT but these don't exist where i live. Good news is that i haven't looked up anything about new monitors the last 2-3 years so maybe the current ones are good enough? Last time i checked they were, well, crap. I need some help but keep in mind that i never used anything on my PC besides a CRT. I avoided experiences like ghosting, blurring, lag and all the crap most people are getting used to the last 10 years. And i don't really want to start doing that now :/

So, is there anything i can buy now or should i wait for extra 3 years, assuming my monitor will last till then?
 
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
 
HoosTrax said:
The "sharp" argument strikes me as a weird one...have you been using a digital CRT? I never knew those existed.
Click to expand...
Play a platform/sidescrolling game on any CRT. Notice how sharp the backgrounds are when you are moving. They are as sharp as when you stay still. On the LCD, any LCD, when you move the backgrounds lose their sharpness. They become a blurry mess.

Thats why i mentioned "sharp".
 
Teknopathetic said:
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
Click to expand...

That blows. FW900 is fuckin legendary.
 
Teknopathetic said:
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
Click to expand...

Yes, look into 120/144hz monitors. I have made good experience with the BenQ 2411 hz, but this model does not exist anymore. Whatever comes after that or is compared to monitors from other brands should make you happy.
 
nkarafo said:
Yeah, i heard about it. Im gonna do some research but i only want to ask if this is a function of the monitor itself or is it some special software that allows any 120hz monitor to work with it?
Click to expand...
It's a strobed backlight built into certain monitors (typically "gaming grade" LCD monitors that run at 120Hz or 144Hz which are marketed for usage with Nvidia's 3D Vision).

There a list of supported monitors at the top of that webpage. The software provided facilitates toggling the strobing on and off.
 
nkarafo said:
Play a platform/sidescrolling game on any CRT. Notice how sharp the backgrounds are when you are moving. They are as sharp as when you stay still. On the LCD, any LCD, when you move the backgrounds lose their sharpness. They become a blurry mess.

Thats why i mentioned "sharp".
Click to expand...

But isn't that motion blur and due to refresh rates ?
 
Jinko said:
But isn't that motion blur and due to refresh rates ?
Click to expand...
No. When i play retro 16bit games via emulation, i actually drop the refresh rate of my CRT to 60hz v-synced so it runs in perfect sync with the 60hz console games. The result is smooth frame rate without even a minimal amount of stuttering but that doesn't affect the sharpness of the backgrounds/overall image, these remain sharp while scrolling, unlike what you see on LCDs. It doesn't matter if the CRT monitor runs at 60, 75, 85 or 100hz. It never blurs the moving image.


HoosTrax said:
It's a strobed backlight built into certain monitors (typically "gaming grade" LCD monitors that run at 120Hz or 144Hz which are marketed for usage with Nvidia's 3D Vision).

There a list of supported monitors at the top of that webpage. The software provided facilitates toggling the strobing on and off.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
Teknopathetic said:
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
Click to expand...

While my HD-CRT (Philips 32PW9551) might not have died, it FRIED my Sat receiver the other day when I plugged in the HDMI cable between the TV and the Sat receiver.

I do no longer trust it to plug my PC or PS3/Wii U into it, and it looks like I might be forced to move to the inferior LCD world too. =(
 
nkarafo said:
No. When i play retro 16bit games via emulation, i actually drop the refresh rate of my CRT to 60hz v-synced so it runs in perfect sync with the 60hz console games. The result is smooth frame rate without even a minimal amount of stuttering but that doesn't affect the sharpness of the backgrounds/overall image, these remain sharp while scrolling, unlike what you see on LCDs. It doesn't matter if the CRT monitor runs at 60, 75, 85 or 100hz. It never blurs the moving image.
Click to expand...

Sorry I meant Response times.

Chances are we will never see pixel switching times on LCD remotely close to that of a CRT display.
 
Jinko said:
Sorry I meant Response times.

Chances are we will never see pixel switching times on LCD remotely close to that of a CRT display.
Click to expand...
Which is a huge issue, big enough for the industry to drop the LCD technology and start a new one or something. At least for gaming monitors. Having the backgrounds look like a blurry mess is kind of an issue. Its much more obvious on sidescrollers but you can see the difference in all kinds of games.

I hope this lightboost/strobe light technology to be sufficient until that happens.
 
Teknopathetic said:
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
Click to expand...

I'm so jelly
I wish I'd paid the extra 150 euros for one back in the day, I got a 19" iiyama visionmaster pro which was a pretty good monitor (350 euros back then) but it's not in the same league

Silly me expecting monitor tech to go forward not backward:(
 
The best lcd for your need is an eizo va 120hz pannel with ulmb. Best in class by far. Go on overclock.net and find callsignvega..he is a motion clarity fan and owned just about every great monitor for gaming and he will tell you thats what you need. Honestly it does not get better then this.

Edit: eizo fdf2405w. That is the best gaming monitor on the planet atm. Rival ctr in clarity. But you need 100fps at all time so that is quite expensive.
 
Mr Vast said:
The best lcd for your need is an eizo va 120hz pannel with ulmb. Best in class by far. Go on overclock.net and find callsignvega..he is a motion clarity fan and owned just about every great monitor for gaming and he will tell you thats what you need. Honestly it does not get better then this.
Click to expand...
Yeah, if 1080p is enough for you the Eizo is probably the best gaming monitor currently available.
 
It's sad that display tech got worse when flat panels were introduced and it's still hasn't surpassed old technology.
 
nkarafo said:
Which is a huge issue, big enough for the industry to drop the LCD technology and start a new one or something. At least for gaming monitors. Having the backgrounds look like a blurry mess is kind of an issue. Its much more obvious on sidescrollers but you can see the difference in all kinds of games.

I hope this lightboost/strobe light technology to be sufficient until that happens.
Click to expand...

Which is funny, because for all the reasons you mentioned (And more), you'd think we'd have gone with SED TVs instead of LCDs.
 
entrement said:
It's sad that display tech got worse when flat panels were introduced and it's still hasn't surpassed old technology.
Click to expand...

Worse in some ways, better in others. CRTs were not superior to LCDs in every way. They were kings in refresh rates, but had failings in other areas.
 
Zalusithix said:
Worse in some ways, better in others. CRTs were not superior to LCDs in every way. They were kings in refresh rates, but had failings in other areas.
Click to expand...

True, but as the post above mentioned thought SED and FED displays could have solved many of those issues, sadly the wrong technology took off lol.
 
Jinko said:
True, but as the post above mentioned thought SED and FED displays could have solved many of those issues, sadly the wrong technology took off lol.
Click to expand...

SED/FED are better related to competing with plasma tech than LCD. LCD was going to take off regardless due to the maturity of the tech at the time. Certainly not a perfect technology, but was a good enough fit for a number of uses.

It's just unfortunate that OLED tech has been relatively slow to mature. Once all the problems with it are firmly a thing of the past (lifespan, mura, etc), and the price comes down to sane levels, it'll be a veritable display utopia.
 
Zalusithix said:
SED/FED are better related to competing with plasma tech than LCD. LCD was going to take off regardless due to the maturity of the tech at the time. Certainly not a perfect technology, but was a good enough fit for a number of uses.

It's just unfortunate that OLED tech has been relatively slow to mature. Once all the problems with it are firmly a thing of the past (lifespan, mura, etc), and the price comes down to sane levels, it'll be a veritable display utopia.
Click to expand...

I take it that OLED is the best new tech on the horizon then?
 
OP I'd check out a 120/144Hz monitor, definitely. Just got one and I'm loving it. Colors aren't the best (I had a VA monitor before it, for comparison) but its amazing for motion. It's not a CRT and obviously never will be, but its great. And I consider myself pretty motion sensitive too (I could never use 60 Hz on CRT's because the flickering annoyed me).
 
chrishackwood said:
I take it that OLED is the best new tech on the horizon then?
Click to expand...

It's not exactly "new" anymore, but I don't know of anything else that can compete with all the positives that the technology has. Pure blacks, fast response times, energy efficient, super thin displays, flexible displays...
 
Was thinking of picking up an old crt for retro console gaming (see frequency/amplitude). I can get this cheap in my area (Sony FD Trinitron WEGA KV-30HS420), should I. Beast is ~150 lbs lol.
 
blackMamba1187 said:
Was thinking of picking up an old crt for retro console gaming (see frequency/amplitude). I can get this cheap in my area (Sony FD Trinitron WEGA KV-30HS420), should I. Beast is ~150 lbs lol.
Click to expand...
Unless you're going with the HDTV+upscaler route, for retro gaming you might consider an SD set, as it's more likely to handle 240p and 480i signals in a half-reasonable "native" way. This is a good thread to ask questions in.
 
Zalusithix said:
It's just unfortunate that OLED tech has been relatively slow to mature. Once all the problems with it are firmly a thing of the past (lifespan, mura, etc), and the price comes down to sane levels, it'll be a veritable display utopia.
Click to expand...
I wonder if those two are even really problems anymore. I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 with an OLED display from mid-2011, and it has 0 mura and still works fine after daily use.

I think the problem is just the cost of making them monitor-sized. Or maybe manufacturers simply don't want to sell OLED monitors since then they can never sell any improvements again :P
 
It's a tough one for sure as there is no LCD that can truly match every area where a CRT excels.

That Eizo 24" is a great monitor but it's 1080p and quite small.

For me, while I miss the motion qualities of a CRT, I find it's the contrast and black levels that were much more defeating. IPS and TN LCD panels are simply awful in this regard and should be avoided for that reason. They absolutely ruin dark imagery unless you're sitting in a very well lit room with just the right lighting to hide the glowing backlight without washing out the image.

MVA panels, however, are much better in this regard. Still not CRT quality but miles beyond IPS and TN.

The Eizo is great as it combines VA tech with a high-refresh rate giving great contrast and motion qualities. I ended up buying a BenQ BL3200PT which is a 32" MVA 1440p monitor which has everything I wanted accept great motion qualities. It's not terrible in that regard but looks more like a standard 60 Hz LCD (which it is). I can live with that thanks to the deeper contrast. Plus, 32" is quite massive for a monitor and 1440p is a good middle ground for resolution. 4k is still too much right now. Windows has poor UI scaling and no GPU can properly power through many newer games at 4k without huge sacrifices.

I'm still hoping that FED displays will someday be made as they are not officially "dead", but close to it. I'd also love proper OLED displays to be made as they trounce LCD technology in every way.

It's definitely a depressing world for image quality lovers thanks to the rise of LCD technology.
 
Jinko said:
But isn't that motion blur and due to refresh rates ?
Click to expand...

No - it's a problem with motion resolution in most lcd. Newer lcd that are entering the market just recently have reduced this by mimicking what a crt does by strobing black which solves a lot of the problem despite lcd still having relatively slow pixel response times.
 
Shai-Tan said:
No - it's a problem with motion resolution in most lcd. Newer lcd that are entering the market just recently have reduced this by mimicking what a crt does by strobing black which solves a lot of the problem despite lcd still having relatively slow pixel response times.
Click to expand...
Which is awesome technology *BUT* it still seems to be limited by the fact that you need to drive games at much higher frame-rates. For optimal performance that means 120 fps. It seems like G-Sync can help with allowing slight dips without problems, at least.

That was kind of the issue I've seen with it, at least. It's hard enough to hold 60 fps in a high-end PC game on reasonably powerful hardware (GTX780) let alone 120 fps. To use it you pretty much have to sacrifice detail and possibly resolution. It would be neat if there were a way to use the same technique by only providing 60 frames per second instead. If the monitor could do some processing or something to help.
 
Durante said:
I wonder if those two are even really problems anymore. I have a Samsung Galaxy S2 with an OLED display from mid-2011, and it has 0 mura and still works fine after daily use.

I think the problem is just the cost of making them monitor-sized. Or maybe manufacturers simply don't want to sell OLED monitors since then they can never sell any improvements again :P
Click to expand...

Technology to prevent mura effects is out there, though I'm not sure it's common place on all OLED panels these days. As far as lifespan issues go, I believe it's still an issue. The total time a phone's display is on in a given day is a fraction of what a TV, let alone a monitor would typically see. The different subpixel colors degrade at differing rates with blue being particularly bad. This is why, even to this day, OLED displays on phones aren't all RGB matrix types like on LCD. Even some of the ones that do have an RGB matrix like certain Samsung panels can have an odd layout that's not really a pure RGB stripe layout.

We're getting there, but there's still improvements to be made.
 
HoosTrax said:
Look into Lightboost, if you haven't already.

The "sharp" argument strikes me as a weird one...have you been using a digital CRT? I never knew those existed.
Click to expand...
Get a 144 Hz monitor and look into light strobing. My friend games on a CRT on PC and says combining a high refresh rate monitor and the lightboost gives the same effect.
 
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Doesn't strobing the image recreate all the old issues people had with CRT, flickering, etc? I'm intrigued.
Click to expand...

Not really, at least in my experience. And I'm someone who noticed the flickering of a CRT at 60Hz.

But some games are locked to 60FPS (like Super Meat Boy) and I do notice a little flickering there at first, but then my eyes adjust.
 
Mr Vast said:
The best lcd for your need is an eizo va 120hz pannel with ulmb. Best in class by far. Go on overclock.net and find callsignvega..he is a motion clarity fan and owned just about every great monitor for gaming and he will tell you thats what you need. Honestly it does not get better then this.

Edit: eizo fdf2405w. That is the best gaming monitor on the planet atm. Rival ctr in clarity. But you need 100fps at all time so that is quite expensive.
Click to expand...

mr stroke said:
http://www.blurbusters.com/ Is your friend
Click to expand...

I haven't gamed on a CRT in years; I'm liking the Eizo FG2421. The 2421 is the gaming version of the 2405, at least that's what blurbusters calls it.
Here's a review: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/eizo_fg2421.htm
 
Low persistence displays are your friend. Blurbusters.com is a good resource on that matter.



More info: Displayed frames capture a single point in time, but displays "hold" an image for a certain amount of time. If you track an object along the screen, you see a blur trail at the end of the movement, due to the integration our eyes do.
On CRTs, the image decays relatively fast, but on most LCD/OLED displays, the image is shown until a new one arrives. At 1000 pixels per second an 60Hz, that results in 16 pixels worth of blur.
oled-response.jpg

a: Sony OLED with 45% duty cycle (7.5 ms persistence, 7.5 pixel blur @ 1000 pixels/second)
b/c: Same Sony OLED compared to a Sony CRT.
4wpo7j.png

Asus Lightboost 10% (1.5 ms persistence, measured by TFTCentral)


Real world examples:
60 Hz full persistence LCD
CROPPED_60Hz-1024x341.jpg

120 Hz full persistence LCD
CROPPED_120Hz-1024x341.jpg

120 Hz low persistence LCD (lightboost 10% as above)
CROPPED_LightBoost50-1024x341.jpg

Source: http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/
Bucket-o-roadkill said:
Doesn't strobing the image recreate all the old issues people had with CRT, flickering, etc? I'm intrigued.
Click to expand...
Short answer: Yes.
Long answer: Yes, but flicker detection depends on the flicker detection capabilities of our eyes (critical flicker fusion, CFF). CFF is mostly dependent on brightness and field of view.
persistence3z9l97.png

(above Graph = no flicker, below graph = visible flicker. Values slightly off, should be 100,90,80,72 Hz)
 
I use this BenQ XL2420T

Only slight problem I had with it is the touch power button seemed really strange to get to work, like it would light up when my finger went near it, but wouldn't turn on.

Got it to work after a few minutes of trying and haven't turned it off since.
 
Stevey said:
I use this BenQ XL2420T

Only slight problem I had with it is the touch power button seemed really strange to get to work, like it would light up when my finger went near it, but wouldn't turn on.

Got it to work after a few minutes of trying and haven't turned it off since.
Click to expand...

I've got the same monitor, it's fantastic.

Are you touching the power button from the front? I've never had any issues with it at all.

Also, I rant and rave about it all over, but the 3D on the monitor is A+.
 
Just fired up my last spare unused diamondtron crt a few weeks ago, it looks so much better than an otherwise identical monitor with a couple years of use on it, it's tragic. I'm trying to use it as little as possible so it will last me until there are 120hz 4k oled displays.

The problem is that I care about black levels and color shifts and nice looking 640x480 and 1024x768 images just as much as I care about blur-free motion and instant response times.
 
Alo81 said:
I've got the same monitor, it's fantastic.

Are you touching the power button from the front? I've never had any issues with it at all.

Also, I rant and rave about it all over, but the 3D on the monitor is A+.
Click to expand...

Yeah I touched it from the front, it lit up until I moved my hand away, but then I sort of cupped my hand round it and it came on, I just leave it on standby now.
 
I wasn't impressed with the LCD monitors I was looking at when my CRT finally died, either. So I purchased a 24" Samsung LCD LED television instead. It's 1080p, 60 Hz, was $190, 2 HDMI ports, speakers, and has a great picture with backlighting that lets me adjust it to look good no matter the environmental lighting of the room. I can also repurpose it to the bedroom or something if I decide to upgrade to 1440p gaming. The LCD monitors I looked at, which were legion, all had varying image qualities and none of them I was happy with - though they were all a bit cheaper than the television.
 
Teknopathetic said:
I know how you feel. When my FW900 died, I was forced to enter the (extremely shitty) LCD world. I haven't gotten one yet, but perhaps you should look at 120/144hz monitors. Ghosting and lag have been improved upon over the years and the high refresh rate monitors are probably the closest to getting the same feel as a CRT.
Click to expand...

My FW900 died I think was late 2009 or early 2010 I did not want to move the LCD world.
 
Would any of these monitors help with console gaming? Castle crashers on xbox 360 for example...the blurry background makes it unplayable for me.
 
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