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[Agent Dormer]

Hey, I'm looking to get a Wacom Tablet for Christmas and just wanted some suggestions in terms of size and model. I'm thinking about getting an Intuous 6x8, just wondering if anyone can make any comments from having owned one. I'll be using it primarly for drawing and illustrating. I think the 4x5 is a little too small (in general, not having used the workspace before). Any help is grealty appreciated.

 

[Manabanana]

I have the Intuos2 6X8 platinum. I've been extremely happy with it, but the buttons at the top are useless. I've heard the Intuos3 has some production flaws: The plastic cover doesn't match the drawing area, and the plastic border is too sticky and your hand gets caught up on it. There are also a couple complaints with the scroll bar and buttons on the sides. Sometimes your hand will hit the buttons or hit the scroll bar and cause you to zoom in or out in the middle of a stroke. Regardless I'd love to try one to see for myself. Well, what I'm getting at is, if you can get a 2 for a bunch cheaper and new, I'd reccomend it. I've had mine for about a year after a year of owning a 4''X5''. I would never go back to the 4''X5'', that thing is hand cramp city. It took me awhile to get used drawing on the plastic, but now I tape a piece of heavy drawing paper over it so it feels natural.

Also, don't go with anything other than Wacom.

 

[Shogmaster]

If you're going to draw digitally with your tablet instead of scanning in from paper then rendering with your tablet, then I think it's worth investing in a Cintiq.

Drawing digitally gives me so much freedom, and makes it infinitely easier to improve your work, that I find it impossible to go back to paper. However, you're going to have to save up for it since it's minimum of $1500.

Otherwise, I say just find a Graphire 2 (if 4"x5" is big enough) or Graphire 3 (if you want 6"x8" instead). Graphire 2 should be available somewhere on the web for around $70 and 6x8 Graphire 3 retails for $199. BTW, you'll never notice the difference between Graphire and Intuos unless someone specifically points out an exact such situation for you.

 

[Manabanana]

Ooooh yeah, I forgot the Graphire comes in 6"X8" now! The only reason I have an Intuos is because the Graphire wasn't available in 6"X8" when I got mine Man, I wish had the cash for that Cintiq...

 

[Agent Dormer]

Hey, Shogmaster and Manabanana. Thanks for all your help. I think I'm going to go with the Graphire3 after all the input you guys gave me. And damn, that Cintiq is fine.

 

[Phoenix]

If you're going to draw digitally with your tablet instead of scanning in from paper then rendering with your tablet, then I think it's worth investing in a Cintiq.

Yes we've seen your expensive touch sensitive screen-based drawing tablet before

 

[Shogmaster]

Yes we've seen your expensive touch sensitive screen-based drawing tablet before

Pimp it pimp it pimp it!

And by the way, this ain't no stinky DS! That's no "touch" screen. It's EMR based.

 

[Manabanana]

This should be a good thread to ask...Anyone have suggestions for a good tablet PC? I'll need one to keep around with me while abroad.

 

[Shogmaster]

This should be a good thread to ask...Anyone have suggestions for a good tablet PC? I'll need one to keep around with me while abroad.

After a year, the only one I can endorse fully is still the Toshiba M200. Everything else still falls short. But then again, M200 is due for replacing.....

 

[Manabanana]

How would you say it compares to using a Cintiq? Would you reccomend one for digital art? Is (shog, don't read this)

Spoiler

Apple

coming out with one within the next year?

 

[Shogmaster]

How would you say it compares to using a Cintiq? Would you reccomend one for digital art?

Barring the mobility from the equation, if Cintiq 18SX on a fast desktop with 2GB of dual channel RAM is 100% of the experience, then Cintiq 15X on the same desktop would be around 75%, and a Toshiba M200 with 2GB of RAM is like 60%.

There is nothing like physical realestate, and drawing on a 14"x11" tablet feels so much better than on something like the 9.5"x7.25" tablet (doesn't sound like a huge difference, but it is).

Ironically, the M200 has a better resolution than the 18SX (1400x1050 vs 1280x1024), and thus you'll see some people assuming that drawing on the M200 is better than the 18SX. But what they fail to realise is that even 1400x1050 is too small a res to do any permanent piece on, so inevitably, you have to draw @ 50% view to get a decent file res (I set my Painter canvas @ 2521x1600 on my 18SX, which gives me a perfect Ctrl + 0 50% view window while running Painter 9). This makes the screen res largely a moot issue.

Now with mobility IN the equation, there is no beating a Tablet PC. but don't mistake such experience as the best way to do any serious work. It's at best, good for ideation sketches on location, or getting just the roughs done at the client's place and such.

Is (shog, don't read this)

Spoiler

Apple

coming out with one within the next year?

I think motivation for Apple doing a Tablet is largely missing since they are not the first to the market, the "innovator" crown. No glamour in it left for 'ol Steve. You'll notice that since the concept leak days of MS's Tablet PC push back in early 2000, we've heard about that mythical Apple tablet that was due any day now. 4 years later, not even a concept drawing leak. Apple is too busy raking it in with various iPod incarnations to care to do a Tablet IMO.

edit: Also, doing a good tablet PC require quite the CPU muscle. Until the G5 is a commonplace for Apple notebooks, forget about an Apple tablet that's fast enough to do a Tablet justice. G4 is just too weaksauce for good Tablet work. 1.5Ghz Pentium M is minimum for doing art on Tablet PC IMO for instance.

 

[Phoenix]

You dog the G4 and then recommend the Pentium M? Surely you jest.

 

[Shogmaster]

You dog the G4 and then recommend the Pentium M? Surely you jest.

OMG.... You're not actually going to try to present a G4 > Pentium M case to us, are you? This ought to be fucking great! *rubs hands*

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

On a related note--

I am fairly satisfied with my baby Graphire, but one thing bugs me and makes it difficult for me to ink digitally-- and that's that I rotate the paper when I ink by hand. Somebody suggested to me a program with a quick and fast free rotate, but I don't recall what it is. And is there one in Photoshop?

 

[fart]

if you factor in the vector unit the g4 should be able to cut it, but barely, and man it's expensive. the g5 sinks too much power. the pM is much better suited for these ubiquitous machines.

 

[jiggle]

On a related note--

I am fairly satisfied with my baby Graphire, but one thing bugs me and makes it difficult for me to ink digitally-- and that's that I rotate the paper when I ink by hand. Somebody suggested to me a program with a quick and fast free rotate, but I don't recall what it is. And is there one in Photoshop?

I'm very satisfied with the graphire also. Will upgrade eventually. Haven't found a need to yet.


To rotate quickly, just create a few actions, and assign shortcut keys to them.

 

[Shogmaster]

On a related note--

I am fairly satisfied with my baby Graphire, but one thing bugs me and makes it difficult for me to ink digitally-- and that's that I rotate the paper when I ink by hand. Somebody suggested to me a program with a quick and fast free rotate, but I don't recall what it is. And is there one in Photoshop?

Put that Photoshop down and don't launch it again until you are ready to render.

Painter, will be your lineart sweetheart. It can rotate screen, give you thick to thin, and a better line quality than Photoshop can even dream of.

Painter + Photoshop + Wacom tablet = better digital artist in you

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Is there a free or cheap version of Painter with that feature? And does Painter handle layers and transparency well? What I do now is scan my pencils, lighten them considerably, and ink in a layor on top (this is not meant to sound innovative or even surprising-- I just don't know if it't the technique everyone uses).

And If it does, what would I use photoshop for? Effects and coloring?

 

[Doc Holliday]

Cintiq is cool but i would wait for wacom's next lcd screen. I think they might release something new soon. I had a cintiq for a year, then i started using a regular wacom at work. I noticed that my work was the same quality for like 1500 bucks less. So i sold the cintiq and went back to my intuo When wacom releases a higher quality Cintiq that's cheaper i'll pick it up again cause it was really cool

BTW shog, i noticed the japanese wacom site has a 17x cintiq!

 

[Manabanana]

At corel.com there's a 30-day trial of painter9, so you should try that out. I use Painter for everything but resizing and exporting. People have there preferences, though. Some people love Photoshop and find it worth their time to create custom brushes and palettes.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I've tried it in the past, and mostly liked it. But the price put me off since I have a workable version of photoshop for no money.

Is there a "Painter Elements" type version?

 

[RevenantKioku]

I'm coming from the other spectrum on this, what's the bare-bones, cheapest one I can do? Essentially, all I want to be able to do is hand write kanji into this program I have that searches up characters, doing it with a mouse is fucking annoying. So size is no issue at all, and I'm just going to be writing, any suggestions for this cheap ass?

 

[DarthWoo]

On a related note--

I am fairly satisfied with my baby Graphire, but one thing bugs me and makes it difficult for me to ink digitally-- and that's that I rotate the paper when I ink by hand. Somebody suggested to me a program with a quick and fast free rotate, but I don't recall what it is. And is there one in Photoshop?

I've heard of a program called Open Canvas that has this rotate feature.

 

[GG-Duo]

I'm coming from the other spectrum on this, what's the bare-bones, cheapest one I can do? Essentially, all I want to be able to do is hand write kanji into this program I have that searches up characters, doing it with a mouse is fucking annoying. So size is no issue at all, and I'm just going to be writing, any suggestions for this cheap ass?

In HK, they have those tiny tablets (about the size of your palm) for less than $20USD. People use them to input Chinese characters.

 

[Phoenix]

OMG.... You're not actually going to try to present a G4 > Pentium M case to us, are you? This ought to be fucking great! *rubs hands*

Sure. I'll go up against a P3-M anyday with a 1.5 G4

 

[Manabanana]

Sure. I'll go up against a P3-M anyday with a 1.5 G4

+1 G4

 

[belgurdo]

I've got a tiny graphire2 that I got for $100 years ago. Works well.

And I have never thought to actually paste my pictures to the tablet to trace them...I should try that

 

[lachesis]

I also have 6x8 size tablet. at first I thought it would be helpful to have much larger size - but in real life, it's actually more convenient to have smaller size - because you don't have to move your arm as much to go from point A to B. So even with my 6x8, I set my drawing area in small portion of it, so that the cursor moves faster like my natural hand-writing.

lachesis

 

[3phemeral]

Wow, I've been looking for a tablet for ages but they're so damned expensive. Having seen shog's I definitely want to get a hol dof something like that, but if Doc is right and wacom is coming out with one substabtially "cheaper", I might have to fork over the cash for that one. How cheap are we talking about, though?

 

[Shogmaster]

Is there a free or cheap version of Painter with that feature?

Painter Classic that comes with Wacom tablets will do screen rotate, but it's so damn bare bones.... It does have layers also, but you can't tweek brushes in any way, only has 5 undos, only a few types of brushes, etc..

And does Painter handle layers and transparency well?

If you're talking about the full version, then yes, it's a full featured program with layers and transparency etc. It's probably the closest to matching Photoshop's own layers feature set, BTW.

What I do now is scan my pencils, lighten them considerably, and ink in a layor on top (this is not meant to sound innovative or even surprising-- I just don't know if it't the technique everyone uses).

Basically, your paper and pencil step is just serving as an elaborate underlay. Draw, then scan, then adjust, all just to serve as underlay is too much efforst and time wasted in the process IMO.

And If it does, what would I use photoshop for? Effects and coloring?

I personally use Photoshop for things Painter is not great at, and visa versa. Use to be that I'd do all the linework in Painter, and then render in color via Photoshop. Now, I do 80% of the work in Painter, and then mop up with Photoshop for those task it still isn't bested yet.

Cintiq is cool but i would wait for wacom's next lcd screen. I think they might release something new soon. I had a cintiq for a year, then i started using a regular wacom at work. I noticed that my work was the same quality for like 1500 bucks less. So i sold the cintiq and went back to my intuo When wacom releases a higher quality Cintiq that's cheaper i'll pick it up again cause it was really cool

BTW shog, i noticed the japanese wacom site has a 17x cintiq!

It sounds like you just needed your money back, Doc. Seriously though, I'm surprised that your work didn't become any tighter after you got the Cinitiq. If I remember correctly, that was one of the things you were looking forward to. Obcourse if you want loose over all else, Cintiq isn't that much of a benefit.

As for the 17SX, I do believe they also sell them in Europe as well as Japan and some parts of Asia. I actually considered the 17SX instead of 18SX, when 18SX was still going for $3500, but I hate the 15X's cumbersome cable set and the half assed stand, which the 17SX also shares, so I decided against importing.

I'm coming from the other spectrum on this, what's the bare-bones, cheapest one I can do? Essentially, all I want to be able to do is hand write kanji into this program I have that searches up characters, doing it with a mouse is fucking annoying. So size is no issue at all, and I'm just going to be writing, any suggestions for this cheap ass?

Alias has a free trial version of it's Sketch Book Pro that's full featured for 15 days, and limited featured forever. That program has Painter like brush quality that should be even able to do pretty good looking sumi calligraphy if needed.

I've heard of a program called Open Canvas that has this rotate feature.

IIRC, Open Canvas is better suited for painting than linework.

 

[Shogmaster]

Sure. I'll go up against a P3-M anyday with a 1.5 G4

I knew you'd pull something like that.

I also have 6x8 size tablet. at first I thought it would be helpful to have much larger size - but in real life, it's actually more convenient to have smaller size - because you don't have to move your arm as much to go from point A to B. So even with my 6x8, I set my drawing area in small portion of it, so that the cursor moves faster like my natural hand-writing.

lachesis

If you are painting, I think 6x8 is a perfect size, but for drawing, you want as big an area as possible to get a better drawing. Drawing small means you are only using 1 or 2 out of the 4 points of articualtion. A big no no.

Wow, I've been looking for a tablet for ages but they're so damned expensive. Having seen shog's I definitely want to get a hol dof something like that, but if Doc is right and wacom is coming out with one substabtially "cheaper", I might have to fork over the cash for that one. How cheap are we talking about, though?

I don't think it's going to be much "cheaper" per say, but they "may" add Intuos features like 1024 levels of pressure sensitivity (instead of 512 of Cintiqs), and tilt sensor. I've also heard they might be working on widescreen version as well in order to increase screen size (because that would be easier than a 4:3 format to increase diagonal measurement without increasing the pressure on the glass as much when you draw).

BTW, a friend of a friend supposedly saw the new Cintiq as a design mockup, and it has Intuos 3 like buttons as well. No word on the other features since he was just stealing a glance at the tour of the design studio.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Shog, i think it had to do with the fact that i was doing heavy texturing work at the time and less drawing. I found the regular tablets better for painting.

 

[Shogmaster]

Shog, i think it had to do with the fact that i was doing heavy texturing work at the time and less drawing. I found the regular tablets better for painting.

You make it sound like you gave up drawing all together. @_o

Anyways, I think you made a good decision since I almost can't stand the 15X now that I've spent many months with 18SX. SOOOO much better experience. You should get the 18SX instead. *hugs 18SX*

 

[RevenantKioku]

In HK, they have those tiny tablets (about the size of your palm) for less than $20USD. People use them to input Chinese characters.

Perfect! Any idea where I could snag one?

 

[Dilbert]

I have an Intuos2 6x8 tablet, but I've barely used it. For a while, I was having trouble with repetitive motion, so I got it a) as a different input interface which would be better for my wrists and b) so I could indulge in some long-neglected sketching. It's an awesome device...I just never got used to it, and now it's in my closet. At some point I'll drag it out, though.

 

[Phoenix]

I knew you'd pull something like that.

Don't hate me for knowing my winning conditions

 

[Doc Holliday]

hah, i still draw..As soon as i get a chance I'll post new work.

 

[Shogmaster]

hah, i still draw..As soon as i get a chance I'll post new work.

Well?!? I've been waiting HOURS! Gimme my pic damn you!

 

[Saturnman]

Hey, Shogmaster and Manabanana. Thanks for all your help. I think I'm going to go with the Graphire3 after all the input you guys gave me. And damn, that Cintiq is fine.

Good choice. I used to have an Intuos, but in terms of coloring, I find the Graphire line to be just as good. No need to throw your money away.

 

[aerofx]

Those are some nice drawings, Shog. What do you do as an artist? Or are those drawings just for fun?

I'm in the market for a Tablet too and it seems Wacom is the safe if not only choice. Looking to get maybe a 9x12.

 

[pnjtony]

Those are some nice drawings, Shog. What do you do as an artist? Or are those drawings just for fun?

I'm in the market for a Tablet too and it seems Wacom is the safe if not only choice. Looking to get maybe a 9x12.

Holy crap this is old!

I'm thinking of getting a Graphire 4 soon actually though. I'm not a big artist or anything, but it's cheap enough that I think it would be fun.

 

[aerofx]

Of course it's old but it's the only few topics on the Intuos tablets.

 

[sspeedy]

i've been thinking of purchasing a tablet as well. I think I'll go with the Graphire4 Tablet (4x5; $100). i don't sketch often or use PS or anything to draw since I find using the mouse VERY awkward. i don't know if i should get it now or wait till summer (univ. hw load sucks). i get that sudden urge to sketch when i'm really stressed out though, plus i'm thinking of making an effort to improve my art skills. anything else on the market (that is as cheap) to be taking into consideration?

 

[3phemeral]

That one that shogmaster found that I bought a year ago still working great for me. Haven't had any issues with it yet and continues to work solidly. Truly remarkable deal for ~$200.oo


-edit--

I forgot the deals was listed in some other thread.

http://hammerimports.com/av/catalog/Optoma_Panoview_PI500_Interactive_LCD_Display_Monitor__NEW.html

Still listed as $400 here, though, even after a year.

 

[Boards of Canada]

Shog is the man. Painter is definitely the best app for drawing. I'm so tempted to get the Cintiq now. Shog, are you happy with the $1500 model? Would the $2999 model be of greater benefit?

 

[aerofx]

=) Just picked myself up a 9x12 Wacom Tablet and damn, it's hhuuuuuuuge. Anyway, nobody said what Shogmaster does yet.

 

[sspeedy]

i thought this would get quite a few more replies.
anyways, aerofx, how big is your Wacom Tablet? any pics?? and what do YOU do?

 

[Shogmaster]

Shog is the man. Painter is definitely the best app for drawing. I'm so tempted to get the Cintiq now. Shog, are you happy with the $1500 model? Would the $2999 model be of greater benefit?

I've had that 15X ($1500 before being discontinued a few months ago, but $1900 when I bought it) for almost 5 years now, so I'm getting a little tired of it size and resolution limitation compared to the 18SX (18" 1280x1024) I had for about 6 months and my friend's 21UX (21" 1600x1200), which I will get soon myself. Having said that, I could never go back to plain old LCD-less tablets.

If you are fortunate enough to have a PC P), you can get the PI500 or PI700 like 3pheMeraLmiX mentioned already. Existence of these guys for us PC users make Wacom's own offerings in the 15" and 17" catagory a ridiculously overpriced nonsense, since the newer 15X and the 17SX lacks the 24bit color LCD that came with my 5 year old 15X and the 2 year old 18SX and make do with the 18bit panels as the Panoview LCDs. Infact, Wacom doesn't even offer the revised 15X anymore and the $1800 17SX is the cheapest LCD tablet now. In contrast, Hammer Imports offers 15" XGA PI500 for $400, 17" SXGA (1280x1024) PI700 for $700. Talk about a fucking bargain.

Obcourse if you can afford $2500 + shipping for the Cintiq 21UX, you should go for that over any of the Panoviews or the lesser Cintiqs, but you'd better damn make sure that you have the desktop space for it. IT'S GARGANTUAN! :lol But you will know why it's so big and expensive the moment you start using it. It is the best damn tablet in existance. Draw where you look with the sensitivity and accuracy of the Intuos 3. *bows down*

=) Just picked myself up a 9x12 Wacom Tablet and damn, it's hhuuuuuuuge. Anyway, nobody said what Shogmaster does yet.

I post at GAF, DUH~! :lol

 

[aerofx]

=) here's a pic for scale. As for what I use it for? Weeeeelll.. I want to paint / draw digitally. Just figured I'd try something new.

Shog: yeah but do you draw those for fun or does your profession require it.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

My only suggestion to folks that haven't already bought one is . . . Don't buy the Haha big one. It's like having a 36" penis. It's really unwieldily. Especially if you like to draw in your lap like me.

I could have purchased the next size down and have been comfortable with it, but hey - living is learning and a Wacom tablet is better than no Wacom tablet.