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[JinjoUnchained]

I love a game like Dark Souls is because it feels fair. Nothing about having three continues feels fair to me. Instead it feels arbitrary and like a choice made to get more money from people in the arcades. I'm not putting quarters into my own machine so that complete "Game Over - Start from the beginning" design choice, while there for a reason, is not for me at all. I don't feel particularly swayed by the mastery argument but I'm still happy it has been made. Having my suspicions confirmed that the mazes are just pure trial and error in the original NES version, the one I played, further confirms to me just how bad those mazes are.

I did say I didn't find SMB "interesting" to play and it really wasn't. I did however find it to be enjoyable in some ways, specifically how it felt to control Mario and how I could really feel myself improving. While spending 20h on it would have made me a lot more proficient at the game and I might have been able to complete the thing without save-states that has never been my goal.

Again thank you for all of your thoughts, I'm appreciative of all of them, those in agreement and those in disagreement.

Someone said what I was doing was some sort of content tourism and they're right, I am not trying to go back into an alternative universe where I'm a kid going through Nintendo's games. I'm looking at them as an adult who just hasn't played them yet.

Hey OP, you do you, however you want to use your scarce free time to enjoy video games, that's what you should do. The point that we're trying to make here is that treating NES games like content tourism probably won't be a good use of your time. Video game stories of this era were super simple or nonexistent. 8 bit graphics and sound can have a certain retro appeal, but they're primitive by today's standards. And only a few games (Zelda, Metroid, Final Fantasy) were able to create open worlds, but they've long been refined and surpassed by later titles.

So it's the play control and challenge level that make NES games worth playing today. I'd argue that there's not much value to them today besides that other than nostalgia. Again, no one is saying to spend 20 hours mastering each game. They're much simpler than that and they require a fraction of the time. All we're saying is at least give it a shot. If you're only spending 2-10 hours with these NES classics, then spend that time to "git good" and see how far you can make it, and don't worry about if you make it to the end bc that doesn't matter.

Oh, and regarding your point about limited lives and having to replay areas/levels. These games are designed that way to make you master the mechanics/levels. It's not enough to scrape through a world on a low level run and lose most of your lives. The limited lives and less frequent checkpoints reward you for a better run. You may not like that design philosophy, but that's what retro gaming is all about.

 

[Balb]

On the contrary, I've been wrestling with the idea that SMB1 might be my favorite 2D Mario game. I haven't quite been able to make that leap yet but it's definitely an all-time great that is infinitely replayable.

 

[KooopaKid]

It makes all the difference in the world though. I would never ever have finished Dark Souls or probably even enjoyed it if it restarted me from the beginning of the game every third death. If I was aware of the infinite continues trick I would probably not have had to use save states and it would have made the game a lot more fair.

The game is fair. If you die, it's your fault, period. Get good, collect coins, 1ups, etc...
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have save or respawing points (Warp zones are there for a reason by the way).
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have todays standards and philosophy.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

The game is fair. If you die, it's your fault, period. Get good, collect coins, 1ups, etc...
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have save or respawing points.
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have todays standards and philosophy.

SMB did have respawn points though, at the beginning of every world.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I consider myself a pretty big Nintendo fan and I will honestly say that I've never enjoyed SMB1 that much. In fact, I don't think I've ever even beaten it. I preferred every sequel, including the often divisive SMB2A.

Honestly, I have most of the main Mario games downloaded on Wii U. I should probably just do what I did with The Legend of Zelda and finally beat it after all these years.

 

[Morfeo]

This necessitates knowing the warp zones though. For an average player playing Super Mario Bros. for the first time, I'm quite certain that it takes a lot longer to get back to the same spot than in Dark Souls games (I still think it's fine though, for SMB. For SMB3 I think it is quite harsh however). I don't see a strong similarity between Nintendo games and Souls by the way. Especially since Nintendo usually is trying to make games as direct and uncomplicated as possible (disregarding some exemptions like Wave Race) and Souls is a crass counter-approach to that.

The warp zones are crazy easy to find though, maybe except for the one in world 4-2 that takes you to world 6-7-8.

I dont completely agree with your opinion on Nintendo-games here though, they make a lot of games that are fairly complicated. Remember Skyward Sword and the whole sword-mechanic there? What about Pikmin? Metroid Other M? F-Zero GX?

Anyways, what I love with Dark Souls is that it harkens back to games like Castlevania 3 and Zelda 2. The gameplay itself is pretty easy if you play it with a sword&shield. But you have to pay attention at all times, to the enemies, to the level design and so on. Conquering this is what makes it fun, just like in Castlevania 3 og Zelda 2. Its a game that takes you seriously as a player. Just like all Nintendo-games does. It dares to challenge you, and it gets rid of useless crap like narrative and cutscenes (well, mostly) to set the gameplay in focus. Just like Nintendo does.

With SMB3, some of the flutes are hard to find without using internet, so that game is harder in that regard. But the journey is so great that it shouldt really matter. If you dont have fun going through this game again, then I guess these games just arent for you? Edit: Not talking about you in particular Yoshi, but a player who doesnt find this journey fun.

 

[Morfeo]

You're far enough that this isn't really useful, but there's a way to make zelda 2 a bit easier whereby you skip level ups for magic and health and just focus on attack. after a couple of levels, attack will reach a point where its not feasible to be able to get so much EXP, then you rely on the palace statue in the next palace you have to go to, which automatically gives you enough EXP for your next level up (EG, your next HP level up would take 100 EXP, your next MP level up would take 200 EXP and your next ATK level up would take 2000 EXP, so you make sure you're at least 201 EXP with ATK set to trigger next, and the statue will give you 1799 EXP, or however much is needed). Then when you're between dungeons, you level up HP and MP a bit, thought not enough to stop you from getting ATK leveled up at the next statue. Not sure if I explained that very well, but it speeds up leveling a bit as you're not so dependent on leveling up off enemies.

It's a pretty fun thing to do for Zelda 2 veterans to actually try to complete the game with only ATK leveled up (or even less!).

Another tip - stabbing the ironkunckle palace statue at the entrance to every standard palace has a possibility of dropping a red jar, which once you get the life spell stops you from ever having to go back to town to heal. Just leave/enter the dungeon until whacking it spawns one (and be prepared to run if you're low on health and it spawns an actual ironknuckle!)

This is good advice, makes the game even easier than it is.

 

[Mr Waluigi]

Are you people even READING the OP's post?

Keep playing the Mario games. They definitely get better than the original (aside from Lost Levels, skip that).

Don't listen to this monster OP, The Lost Levels is the best game, but play the Famicom Disk System one and not the SNES abomination.

 

[Morfeo]

Hey OP, you do you, however you want to use your scarce free time to enjoy video games, that's what you should do. The point that we're trying to make here is that treating NES games like content tourism probably won't be a good use of your time. Video game stories of this era were super simple or nonexistent. 8 bit graphics and sound can have a certain retro appeal, but they're primitive by today's standards. And only a few games (Zelda, Metroid, Final Fantasy) were able to create open worlds, but they've long been refined and surpassed by later titles.

So it's the play control and challenge level that make NES games worth playing today. I'd argue that there's not much value to them today besides that other than nostalgia. Again, no one is saying to spend 20 hours mastering each game. They're much simpler than that and they require a fraction of the time. All we're saying is at least give it a shot. If you're only spending 2-10 hours with these NES classics, then spend that time to "git good" and see how far you can make it, and don't worry about if you make it to the end bc that doesn't matter.

Oh, and regarding your point about limited lives and having to replay areas/levels. These games are designed that way to make you master the mechanics/levels. It's not enough to scrape through a world on a low level run and lose most of your lives. The limited lives and less frequent checkpoints reward you for a better run. You may not like that design philosophy, but that's what retro gaming is all about.

This is also great advice.

 

[thepenguin55]

I've never owned a single Nintendo system before but spurred by the imminent release of the mini NES I've finally decided to dig into Nintendo's catalogue of games. There is really no other place to begin this quest than with Super Mario Bros.



While growing up I've obviously dabbled with SMB at other people's houses but I've only played maybe a couple of levels in it before this point. I first tried playing it regularly without any save-states but I quickly realized that the archaic mechanic of starting the entire game over after a couple of deaths wasn't for me. I ended up saving at the start of each level letting me play through the game with a lessened level of frustration.

Now that I've finished it I feel that playing it now it is not a very interesting game. It was good but it feels very repetitive. The differences between the worlds are more color-swaps and a couple of new enemies more than anything. There's some genuinely good stuff there, like how it gradually teaches you some of its mechanics but also some absolutely terrible stuff like the castle "mazes" that just feel dumb.

I'm not completely sure how I'm going to proceed with my dive into the Nintendo game catalogue so this is where I would appreciate your input. I've decided to play the games one system at a time only moving on to SNES once I'm done with the NES. But should I go from SMB to SMB2 or should I play the games in release order or something? Here are the NES games I'm at least looking to try, maybe finishing around 5-6 of them or so. Let me know if there are some total gems I've missed and should play as well.

Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Legend of Zelda
Zelda 2 The Adventure of Link
Donkey Kong
Punch Out!!
Dr Mario
Metroid

I hope you know you've opened pandora's box. The NES version of DK isn't the version you want to play. Same goes with Metroid. The original Metroid is fine but the GBA remake is the way to go. Also, beating PunchOut is rough on modern TVs. Input lag makes that game far more difficult to beat. I would argue that outside of the above games the 3rd party stuff is kind of the best stuff on the NES.

 

[cHinzo]

Just go to SMB3 and notice the astounding amount of differences compared to SMB1. It's an amazing game, still!

 

[Haganeren]

I hope you know you've opened pandora's box. The NES version of DK isn't the version you want to play. Same goes with Metroid. The original Metroid is fine but the GBA remake is the way to go. Also, beating PunchOut is rough on modern TVs. Input lag makes that game far more difficult to beat. I would argue that outside of the above games the 3rd party stuff is kind of the best stuff on the NES.

I don't think Metroid and Zero Mission are akind enough to make them comparable.
I played Metroid 1 because i had fun trying to know where to go with map i draw by myself. Zero Mission in comparaison is far better and a quick candy to eat in comparaison.

 

[John Caboose]

Hey OP, you do you, however you want to use your scarce free time to enjoy video games, that's what you should do. The point that we're trying to make here is that treating NES games like content tourism probably won't be a good use of your time. Video game stories of this era were super simple or nonexistent. 8 bit graphics and sound can have a certain retro appeal, but they're primitive by today's standards. And only a few games (Zelda, Metroid, Final Fantasy) were able to create open worlds, but they've long been refined and surpassed by later titles.

So it's the play control and challenge level that make NES games worth playing today. I'd argue that there's not much value to them today besides that other than nostalgia. Again, no one is saying to spend 20 hours mastering each game. They're much simpler than that and they require a fraction of the time. All we're saying is at least give it a shot. If you're only spending 2-10 hours with these NES classics, then spend that time to "git good" and see how far you can make it, and don't worry about if you make it to the end bc that doesn't matter.

Oh, and regarding your point about limited lives and having to replay areas/levels. These games are designed that way to make you master the mechanics/levels. It's not enough to scrape through a world on a low level run and lose most of your lives. The limited lives and less frequent checkpoints reward you for a better run. You may not like that design philosophy, but that's what retro gaming is all about.

I like you, you've made great posts in this thread. I'm definitely taking some of your advice. SMB was just the first step on my way. My goal is to get a feel for the Nintendo catalogue and if beating a game isn't really a necessary part of that then I absolutely won't force it as hard.

I've had a lot of fun today playing The Legend of Zelda for a couple of hours. It's pretty good so far!

Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr I also played today but only for 15 minutes each, it was a surreal experience. I had no idea there was another stage beyond the first one! I've seen Donkey Kong a thousand times, even a movie centered around playing it (arcade version high score world record movie), and yet I've never seen anything other than the first stage.

The game is fair. If you die, it's your fault, period. Get good, collect coins, 1ups, etc...
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have save or respawing points (Warp zones are there for a reason by the way).
You can't expect a 30 years old game to have todays standards and philosophy.

SMB did have respawn points though, at the beginning of every world.

If Mario was designed to restart me from every world when out of lives, like the trick does, I would've been a lot happier.

Sorry KoopaKid, you might consider SMB fair but I really don't. Don't "period" me as if you're a magical gatekeeper of fairness. And yes, I know full well that the game is 30 years old.

 

[Simbabbad]

I first tried playing it regularly without any save-states but I quickly realized that the archaic mechanic of starting the entire game over after a couple of deaths wasn't for me.

Stopped reading right here. It's not "archaic", the whole game is built around it. And it's really not that hard.

I don't think Metroid and Zero Mission are akind enough to make them comparable.
I played Metroid 1 because i had fun trying to know where to go with map i draw by myself. Zero Mission in comparaison is far better and a quick candy to eat in comparaison.

Thank you. Metroid Zero Mission is much more a remake of Super Metroid than of NES Metroid, with which is has next to nothing in common.

 

[mark-san]

While growing up I've obviously dabbled with SMB at other people's houses but I've only played maybe a couple of levels in it before this point. I first tried playing it regularly without any save-states but I quickly realized that the archaic mechanic of starting the entire game over after a couple of deaths wasn't for me. I ended up saving at the start of each level letting me play through the game with a lessened level of frustration.

I wouldn't call it archaic. It's more of a challenge, and it requires practice. Games these days hold the player's hands too much.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

I like you, you've made great posts in this thread. I'm definitely taking some of your advice. SMB was just the first step on my way. My goal is to get a feel for the Nintendo catalogue and if beating a game isn't really a necessary part of that then I absolutely won't force it as hard.

I've had a lot of fun today playing The Legend of Zelda for a couple of hours. It's pretty good so far!

Donkey Kong and Donkey Kong Jr I also played today but only for 15 minutes each, it was a surreal experience. I had no idea there was another stage beyond the first one! I've seen Donkey Kong a thousand times, even a movie centered around playing it (arcade version high score world record movie), and yet I've never seen anything other than the

My hats off to you if you're going straight to Zelda from SMB and Donkey Kong. It's a classic that still plays great, like the Skyrim of its' day. But it's a real tough challenge. As generic advice, I'd say you can probably beat the first 3-4 dungeons without running into any cryptic BS. After that, I wouldn't feel bad about asking for help to find some of the other dungeons, they're gated behind some cryptic solutions.

And if this is your first Zelda, then you should know that some blocks can be pushed if you hold the D arrow against them, so you'll want to try that out in dungeons or on rocks in the overworld. And certain bushes can be burned by the candle. And certain dungeon walls can be bombed to expose hidden entrances if you bomb them right in the middle. Finally, Id recommend going online to read what each item does.

All of these beginner tips were in the original manual BTW, so they're fair game. Have fun, I hope it clicks for you!

 

[Lothar]

In Zelda, pay attention to the clues in each dungeon. They usually tell you how to find the next one.

 

[MrBadger]

Don't listen to this monster OP, The Lost Levels is the best game, but play the Famicom Disk System one and not the SNES abomination.

I think after reading OP's complaints about repetitiveness and difficulty, they're definitely better off skipping Lost Levels.

 

[LegendofLex]

I love a game like Dark Souls is because it feels fair. Nothing about having three continues feels fair to me. Instead it feels arbitrary and like a choice made to get more money from people in the arcades. I'm not putting quarters into my own machine so that complete "Game Over - Start from the beginning" design choice, while there for a reason, is not for me at all.

You can actually restart from the beginning of the world you're on unlimited times in Super Mario Bros. when you get a Game Over.

 

[mclem]

SMB asks you to pay attention to small details by using a little chime to tell you if you're going the right way or not.

I don't *think* that chime is in vanilla SMB.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

Hm I'd try the All-Stars version on SNES first since they revamped a few things so it's nicer to get into, then go back to the NES versions

 

[L Thammy]

Didn't see the bit about savestates until now. I do think it's appropriate to use them in some places - in place of saving and such - but I think the challenge is not just an integral part of the NES experience, but it's the NES experience itself.

Nintendo difficulty might have originally been a holdover from arcade game design, but that's not the reason it stuck around. Modern games try to justify their cost by including a lot of content - it's a big part of the popularity of open world. NES games didn't have the capability to have games of that length, so they instead increased the value by making the game more demanding of the player. You don't buy the game to play it once. You play it multiple times, get gradually better at it, then get further and further until you win. And then maybe you play it again, hoping to do better or coming up with a challenge for yourself.

It differs from arcade difficulty in that arcade difficulty is trying to get your money. If the game can't be beaten without dying but you can put another coin in and keep going, that's fair game. The NES game wants you to remain interested even as it slows you down, so it needs the game to be possible.

The ending of the game is really just the carrot on the end of the stick, not unlike a high score. If you're just trying to rush through it and see the ending, you're really just pretending that the game is something that it isn't. That's inevitably going to ruin the experience.

More specifically in the case of Super Mario Bros, one of the reasons it can get away with sending you back to the beginning on game over is that it provides a lot of resources to help get you to the end. The warp pipes are the big ones, but there are also all the 1UP mushrooms, bonus rooms and coin heavens that you can use to make life easier on yourself. You have to figure out how to get them, but they're available and not all that difficult to get. If this was an arcade game, those would be ingenious methods of not getting you to spend more money - let's not pretend that Nintendo didn't think out what the difficulty should be like on a console game.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Super Mario Bros 2 is weird. It's okay to skip it, or play "lost levels" instead.

Also, looking at your list, you mind as well just wait a month and get the NES mini which will have those games anyway.

If you're trying to play Nintendo's best, I'd focus on SNES and GameCube, rather than NES.
The quality of games is waaaay higher.

 

[Mega]

A bunch of people are going to hate me for this, but I don't care. As a huge Nintendo fan, I think that almost no NES games hold up today, outside of Nostalga. The one major exception is Kirby's Adventure. That's a great game even today, from beginning to end. There's also a ton of minor exceptions: games that are legitimately fun for 10-30 minutes, but not really more than that. Stuff like Balloon Fight, Punch Out, etc. Super Mario Bros 3 would be great if you could save and if it wasn't so damn hard. And yes, I know it's relatively easy for an NES game, but THAT'S THE DAMN POINT.

(The SNES, by contrast, has a ton of timeless games)

You are basically saying you dislike old-school games that aren't very easy, because there are many NES games that hold up well today but also can't be beaten in the first hour of the first day playing. They require some time, trial and error, and personal improvement to complete. I like Kirby's Adventure, my first playthrough was last year, but it's definitely not the best on NES. It feels like a game on very easy mode from start to finish.

Skip the original Metroid and Zelda and go straight to Super Metroid and Zelda: A Link to the Past. Those are still incredible games today. They are also far more accessible than the original entries.

The next Zelda game you should play is Link's Awakening DX for Game Boy Color. It's the best one. I'm serious.

Legend of Zelda NES should not be skipped. It's entirely playable and doesn't have anything that's so archaic to make it frustrating and impossible by today's standards. Just get a map of the overworld if you really think it's too hard to find your way around, although that too seems unnecessary once you walk around and easily figure out the lay of the land on your own.

I'm a huge fan of Link's Awakening but calling it the best Zelda seems odd to me. I re-played it not too long ago. Many who wax nostalgic about it don't seem to recall it's completely linear and the map is highly restricted until you move the story along. It should get the same crap as the 3D Zeldas and yet it doesn't because I guess people forgot this is the most linear Zelda game.

Dark Souls is not fair. One little mistake or loss to a boss and you're set back 5-10 minutes. That was excruciating. I must have walked that path from the checkpoint to Ornstein and Smough 50 times. Or how's about that long path from the checkpoint to the first Dragon. I had to walk that a bunch. Dark Souls needed lives or continues. If you have time for Dark Souls, you have time for anything.

Yeah, I don't get this criticism against retro games and the need for save states and infinite continues to ameliorate the perception that they're too difficult. Some are undoubtedly incredibly difficult, while others are simply tough but fair. I have put dozens of hours into Dark Souls and never beat it. Maybe I never will unless I block out a lot of time for it. It's a good game, but it's very repetitive. The walk back to the boss from a checkpoint is exactly like redoing an old video game stage over and over until you get it right. I concluded it's a game for people with a large amount of free time to master it. If you can play that, then you can play (much shorter) NES games without complaining about a lack of modern day conveniences. Going back to where you died and not using the continue trick in SMB for example is still so much quicker and easier than getting past a single tough part of Dark Souls.

 

[John Caboose]

My hats off to you if you're going straight to Zelda from SMB and Donkey Kong. It's a classic that still plays great, like the Skyrim of its' day. But it's a real tough challenge. As generic advice, I'd say you can probably beat the first 3-4 dungeons without running into any cryptic BS. After that, I wouldn't feel bad about asking for help to find some of the other dungeons, they're gated behind some cryptic solutions.

And if this is your first Zelda, then you should know that some blocks can be pushed if you hold the D arrow against them, so you'll want to try that out in dungeons or on rocks in the overworld. And certain bushes can be burned by the candle. And certain dungeon walls can be bombed to expose hidden entrances if you bomb them right in the middle. Finally, Id recommend going online to read what each item does.

All of these beginner tips were in the original manual BTW, so they're fair game. Have fun, I hope it clicks for you!

I'm not sure how far I will get into it with lots of more Zeldas ahead of me. I'm at dungeon 2 at the moment and I'm totally enjoying it so far. And yeah, reading the manual for these games is almost essential. The manual says there are hints to the whereabouts of these hidden dungeons, I'm guessing these hints are the "cryptic bs" I've seen referred to a couple of times before?

I've actually played Zelda The Minish Cap before. I believe I got to the clouds before stopping. I had to read some hints though, iirc there was something about going to a witches cabin in the woods that I just couldn't figure out.

 

[taps]

In Super Mario Brothers you can continue after Game Over. if one holds down the A button while pressing Start on the beginning screen they will continue at the beginning of the World they died on.

 

[thepenguin55]

I think we can all agree that most NES games (and to an extent SNES games) would've been better with unlimited continues. I think an argument could be made that doing away with a Lives+Continues system altogether would be the way to go, but I'm fine with Lives+Continues system as long as the continues are unlimited.

I have done with NES games what the OP has done, effectively giving myself unlimited lives. I don't think doing that sort of thing necessarily means that a game is bad or doesn't hold up. It just means that it's a product of it's time. There's a reason Nintendo has built in a save functionality to the Virtual Console, because once you get past poor check pointing or limited continues there's still great games under that. So if the only way you can enjoy some of these NES games is by save scumming then I fail to see an issue with that. All that matters is that you're enjoying them and can appreciate them.

 

[thepenguin55]

In Super Mario Brothers you can continue after Game Over. if one holds down the A button while pressing Start on the beginning screen they will continue at the beginning of the World they died on.

Oh wow I totally forgot about that! If I remember correctly this was common with a lot of NES games. Maybe not that exact cheat code but something similar. Tip for the OP: Always look up the cheats for an NES game. You'll often come across stuff like this that will save you a lot of headaches.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I think we can all agree that most NES games (and to an extent SNES games) would've been better with unlimited continues.

Nah. Having limited continues in most of my games as a kid meant that I had to play more carefully and get really good in order to progress far. Knowing that the penalty for failure was to start the whole game over again meant having to concentrate harder and practice over and over. It made me a better gamer and also made me appreciate the game more in the process.

 

[Morfeo]

I would say it depend on the game, some games definitely needs unlimited continues because of the challenge, like Ninja Gaiden, other games you have to play through it all in one sitting with one life like Wonderboy in Monster Land or Rygar, and the game is designed around that and its fun to manage it.

Anyways, glad you are enjoying Zelda op, that is an awesome game. Actually makes me want to tackle the second quest which Ive never done, might have to do that this weekend

 

[JinjoUnchained]

I think we can all agree that most NES games (and to an extent SNES games) would've been better with unlimited continues. I think an argument could be made that doing away with a Lives+Continues system altogether would be the way to go, but I'm fine with Lives+Continues system as long as the continues are unlimited.

I have done with NES games what the OP has done, effectively giving myself unlimited lives. I don't think doing that sort of thing necessarily means that a game is bad or doesn't hold up. It just means that it's a product of it's time. There's a reason Nintendo has built in a save functionality to the Virtual Console, because once you get past poor check pointing or limited continues there's still great games under that. So if the only way you can enjoy some of these NES games is by save scumming then I fail to see an issue with that. All that matters is that you're enjoying them and can appreciate them.

I think we can all agree that generalizations are not good.

 

[John Caboose]

Anyways, glad you are enjoying Zelda op, that is an awesome game. Actually makes me want to tackle the second quest which Ive never done, might have to do that this weekend

It's really good. I've done the first three dungeons and I'm in the fourth. It's a shame that the NES controller doesn't have more buttons, it got sort of annoying to continually go into the start menu and switch between the bomb/boomerang/bow/candle by the fourth dungeon. I'm not sure if I should continue playing, I'd kind of like to move on and try more games.

I feel like I've played enough of it to appreciate much of the design. Just from starting it I got totally into the atmosphere with the sweet title screen graphics and pleasant music. Unlike in Mario the death system felt a lot more fair. I get to keep all of my progress except that my character is moved physically to the start of the overworld/dungeon. It's super reminiscent of Dark Souls and I buy the design choice in a way that I would never be able to with SMBs complete progress wipe.

To conclude, my feelings towards The Legend of Zelda are overwhelmingly positive and I look forward to playing more games from the series later on. I'm going to give Punch-Out and Metroid a shot next.

 

[Always-honest]

Wow.. it's impossible to get a sense of timeframe if it's THAT long ago.
But Mario 3 is a much better game imo.

 

[John Caboose]

Just played the first two matches in Punch-Out, it's actually better than I thought it would be. I totally expected some sort of button mashing bs having never played it before. I'm positively surprised that it feels a lot more like a well designed boss fight. I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

 

[DeadTrees]

I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

The stereotyping was dialed back a bit due to Nintendo's censorship--"Soda Popinksi" was originally called "Vodka Drunkenski" in the second Punch-Out game.

 

[Storm Kyleis]

I love a game like Dark Souls is because it feels fair. Nothing about having three continues feels fair to me. Instead it feels arbitrary and like a choice made to get more money from people in the arcades. I'm not putting quarters into my own machine so that complete "Game Over - Start from the beginning" design choice, while there for a reason, is not for me at all. I don't feel particularly swayed by the mastery argument but I'm still happy it has been made. Having my suspicions confirmed that the mazes are just pure trial and error in the original NES version, the one I played, further confirms to me just how bad those mazes are.

I did say I didn't find SMB "interesting" to play and it really wasn't. I did however find it to be enjoyable in some ways, specifically how it felt to control Mario and how I could really feel myself improving.

I think this is a fair opinion. There was a very different mentality behind the punishing life system: the point back then wasn't "how hard is it to beat the game?", but "how high can your score go?". It's a mentality inspired by early arcade games like Space Invaders and Pac-Man, before saving was even possible (feature introduced by Zelda 1 in 1986).

The level design was barely acceptable even for the time. It's such an important game because it pioneered an incredibly complex and polished control system, and several other game mechanics.

Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Zelda: A Link to the Past and Super Metroid are a huge step-up from the originals and much closer to modern games.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

For some reason, the idea that someone is "new to Nintendo" is mind blowing. I guess being an 80s kid just has me assuming that if you play Videogames you play Nintendo's games.

 

[Toxi]

Just played the first two matches in Punch-Out, it's actually better than I thought it would be. I totally expected some sort of button mashing bs having never played it before. I'm positively surprised that it feels a lot more like a well designed boss fight. I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

If you enjoy Punch-Out!!!, you should try out the Wii version some time.

 

[Stopdoor]

Just played the first two matches in Punch-Out, it's actually better than I thought it would be. I totally expected some sort of button mashing bs having never played it before. I'm positively surprised that it feels a lot more like a well designed boss fight. I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

They satirize everyone, including the Japanese, Americans, and in the Wii version developed by Canadians, Canadians, so it's hard to get too worried about it. And it's done in a fairly tame way, luckily.

 

[Adam_Vania]

i think by save scumming, OP has unwittingly made the game more repetitive and taken the fun and challenge and reward out of conquering the game world. you think you have consumed the content cos you save scummed past that screen but until you actually face the challenge head-on and play by the game rules u may as well be watching a let's play.

if u are dismissing limited deaths because they are an "archaic mechanic" then u are not judging this game in the proper context. also see the comments about palette swap. OP is judging it harshly and unfairly, this was one of the first side scrolling game worlds EVER.

 

[JinjoUnchained]

Just played the first two matches in Punch-Out, it's actually better than I thought it would be. I totally expected some sort of button mashing bs having never played it before. I'm positively surprised that it feels a lot more like a well designed boss fight. I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

In a sense, Punch Out is like an early rhythm game. The opposing fighters give you little "tells" about what they're going to do. You have to experiment to discover those tells and how to counter them.

I will warn you that this game has a notorious "noob bridge" named King Hippo. You gotta get creative to even land a punch on him. The guy who always gave me trouble was Great Tiger as he has this special attack that you must keep blocking.

I think with those two pro tips that you can make it fairly far in the game if you stick with it. Enjoy, it's a classic.

 

[John Caboose]

In a sense, Punch Out is like an early rhythm game. The opposing fighters give you little "tells" about what they're going to do. You have to experiment to discover those tells and how to counter them.

I will warn you that this game has a notorious "noob bridge" named King Hippo. You gotta get creative to even land a punch on him. The guy who always gave me trouble was Great Tiger as he has this special attack that you must keep blocking.

I think with those two pro tips that you can make it fairly far in the game if you stick with it. Enjoy, it's a classic.

Your comment of it being a rhythm game totally resonates with me in how the game feels to play. Punch Out to me definitely feels like a string of well designed boss battles. Every boss has their own telegraph animations and attacks and it in no way feels like a masher of any kind. I completely sworn of fighting games some years ago but this game seems like a category all to itself. I'm impressed.

For some reason, the idea that someone is "new to Nintendo" is mind blowing. I guess being an 80s kid just has me assuming that if you play Videogames you play Nintendo's games.

It's just a quirk of personal history I suppose. I'm 24 and I've gamed on PC since I was a few years old. Since I was 7 and got my first Playstation I've also played on every single stationary console from Sony and Microsoft. Xbox has been my primary brand since I got it christmas 2004 but I've always played on PC/Playstation too. Never owned a handheld dedicated gaming device. Never owned a Nintendo console. My history with Nintendo is limited to a few hours playing at friends/family over the course of my life as well as playing maybe the first 10h of Zelda The Minish Cap in an emulator ten years ago. In my mind that makes me "new to Nintendo", and it makes it exiting for me to go back and see what all these games are really all about.

 

[mickagau33]

Super Mario Bros was really impressive those days, but as you say, right now the mechanics are very archaic. Same happens with many NES games, like Zelda, Metroid, and many more.

You could try Super Mario Bros 3, which has aged really well, and even nowadays has awesome mechanics. You will notice the huge improvement between the first Mario and this Mario.

Super Mario Bros 2 is nice as well, but it's a totally different Mario. Not everyone likes it, and most of the mechanics there have never be used again in Mario games. You could give it a try, and after beating it, check Wikipedia to know why does this game exist.

Kirby's Adventure is also a great game, which has really good mechanics too. It's very impressive for a NES game. You can even save your progress.

With these 4 games, I think you have enough NES. You could try SNES, most of the games there have aged really well. You could try Super Mario World, Yoshi's Island, Donkey Kong Country 1/2/3, Zelda: A Link To The Past, Super Metroid, Earthbound,...

Yeah, I have a hard time really enjoying NES games nowadays (except for a few exceptions) but Snes games, damn, the library and quality is insane...

 

[Morfeo]

Just played the first two matches in Punch-Out, it's actually better than I thought it would be. I totally expected some sort of button mashing bs having never played it before. I'm positively surprised that it feels a lot more like a well designed boss fight. I'm not sure what I think of the ethnic stereotype thing, I guess it's kinda funny. I don't interpret it as being negatively mocking from what I've seen so far.

Yeah, I dont care too much for the racial stereotyping either, but the game itself is great fun. How do you play it? I find the lag in the Wii U-version to be unbearable myself, recommend playing it on original hardware.

 

[redcrayon]

I think we can all agree that most NES games (and to an extent SNES games) would've been better with unlimited continues. I think an argument could be made that doing away with a Lives+Continues system altogether would be the way to go, but I'm fine with Lives+Continues system as long as the continues are unlimited.

I have done with NES games what the OP has done, effectively giving myself unlimited lives. I don't think doing that sort of thing necessarily means that a game is bad or doesn't hold up. It just means that it's a product of it's time. There's a reason Nintendo has built in a save functionality to the Virtual Console, because once you get past poor check pointing or limited continues there's still great games under that. So if the only way you can enjoy some of these NES games is by save scumming then I fail to see an issue with that. All that matters is that you're enjoying them and can appreciate them.

I definitely can't agree with that. Some games yes, others not.

 

[jwj442]

You'll definitely enjoy the Wii Punch-out. It's the perfect modernization of the original.

 

[Sir_Crocodile]

I completed Zelda 2 over the weekend again, FWIW.

Got 7 attack before even leaving the western continent without much of an issue. I think HP/MP were 4/3.

Before I hit the penultimate dungeon I was 8/8/7

 

[Glass Joe]

The mechanics of the original Super Mario Bros have been refined and copied by so many games that I can understand the OP not being wowed by it today. It's still a great game, one just has to compare it to what was out there at the time.