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[Ogimachi]

I'm surprised at the backlash. I didn't even know he was black until I saw an interview. He's only half black. Have people considered that the other half might be...Italian?

Race/ancestry is not the problem. The real problem is that the previous games were about the Sicilian Mafia and the protagonists were part of it, but this is completely different.

Sure, one can make the argument that it's about any mafia, period. (Although mafia per se will always be the sicilian one, as that's where the word comes from) If that's the case, then Sleeping Dogs could just as easily have been a valid Mafia III.

 

[Salsa]

I kept having this feeling the trailer was gonna be a switcharound and the protag was going to turn out to be the kidnapped guy.

yeah. at a certain point the protagonist looked like he was dead

was ready for the real outrage

 

[Brazil]

I immediately fell in love with the game the moment they revealed the setting and protagonist. If they were going with another Italian mob-inspired game, I'd probably never think of it again

This is a different side of that old story that I'm simply not aware of. It already sounds like a way more interesting plot than Mafia II's.

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

 

[soundscream]

Well, compared to now, it hardly was back then.

But you're right, the worst of youtube and news comments would show up here even now.





You think being mixed race didn't present problems with acceptance by both blacks and whites in 1968 in the south? Or were you making some other point?

Its incorrect narratively from what was shown in the trailer, and also historically. You would be more accepted in the black community because of things like the one drop rule, and the fact that a large part of the black community in America is already mixed to a degree.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I immediately fell in love with the game the moment they revealed the setting and protagonist. If they were going with another Italian mob-inspired game, I'd probably never think of it again

This is a different side of that old story that I'm simply not aware of. It already sounds like a way more interesting plot than Mafia II's.

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

Yeah that was a wtf title.

 

[Karl_Dilkington7]

Excellent OP! I honestly don't see why people are freaking out over this. I wonder if people just didn't know that there were different ethnic mobs.

Honestly, I'm glad they changed it up. I've always wanted to play a game during the civil rights movement. I just hope they do it in the must respectful way.

 

[Salsa]

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

im pretty much with everyone else regarding your post similar to this on the other thread in saying that I really think you're reaching here if you think any of that was in any way intentional in the manner you're thinking

you seriously think they purposefully put Dirty Face on there cause the protagonist isnt white?

it's unfortunate, but saying that means "we have a long way to go" seems pretty far fetched to me.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

This is the first time I've been interested in a Mafia game.

 

[Slayven]

OP putting in the work

im pretty much with everyone else regarding your post similar to this on the other thread in saying that I really think you're reaching here if you think any of that was in any way intentional in the manner you're thinking

you seriously think they purposefully put Dirty Face on there cause the protagonist isnt white?

it's unfortunate, but saying that means "we have a long way to go" seems pretty far fetched to me.

Was they crossburning, lynching racist? Hell no

Just that Kelly Osborne slip of the tongue in print.

 

[Redx508]

is sad that we need a thread like this

 

[Rastafarian42]

The fact that they decided to end romanticizing the italian mafia and decided to focus on the black mafia during this civil rights era in New Orleans definitely has this game on my radar never has any excitement towards the series until now.

 

[Salsa]

Was they crossburning, lynching racist? Hell no

Just that Kelly Osborne slip of the tongue in print.

sure

I think it's an unfortunate mistake that could be read wrong by some, but the fact that whoever edited that didnt even think twice about it is, to me, understandable, or at least not something to put blame on

I didnt even make the connection till Brazil pointed it out, and if anything that's a good thing, isnt it?

 

[JDSN]

Is the protagonist based on a real person? He has a very unique look on him that not even the other lieutenants have.

And yeah, that reveal thread was the current day version of the San Andreas thread, racism is still a thing, but its harder to recognize when it has evolved so much, we live in a culture where its wrong to say the n-word but you can talk about lazy thugs, Obama being a muslim,etc as much as you want, there are levels of racism that are allowed by society.
The language behind it has become vague with just enough wiggle room to argue that its not about intolerance but in fact you are just talking about Man's rights/Italian Mafia/States Rights/Ethics In game journalism, but some actually its rooted in the same irrational perception that minorities getting recognition means the eventual downfall of the majority.

 

[levious]

Its incorrect narratively from what was shown in the trailer, and also historically. You would be more accepted in the black community because of things like the one drop rule, and the fact that a large part of the black community in America is already mixed to a degree.

People born from a white parent and a black parent were often ostracized in all of the americas. More accepted by the black community maybe. But they often felt like they didn't belong in either group.

That american blacks were already often mixed did not affect how a mixed child was treated by both groups. Mullato was even an official govt term until world war ii or something.

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

sure

I think it's an unfortunate mistake that could be read wrong by some, but the fact that whoever edited that didnt even think twice about it is understandable

I didnt even make the connection till Brazil pointed it out, and if anything that's a good thing, isnt it?

I was like you until I had to move the US. Seems that it becomes obvious because the culture of the media here kinda teaches you to see these things.

 

[Salsa]

I was like you until I had to move the US. Seems that it becomes obvious because the culture of the media here kinda teaches you to see these things.

oh, well yeah, I always think that's a big part for me with these discussions. I live in a place where there really isnt much racism to speak of, at least not on a day to day basis

not like we have as mixed a populace as the US either to begin with

 

[NavyPharaoh]

I have a lot of respect for Amir0x due to this thread. The research, time and care he puts into every post is much needed on this subject and he does more than his part here.

Racists, on the other hand always need reasons to mask their true intentions. It's much easier to say, this game can't be about this for REASONS or this isn't historically accurate than to say, I don't want to play as a black man or mafia cause I don't like black people.

I've played as white men for decades and it's never bothered me cause I don't have a problem with any race. You would think the times have changed but it's San Andreas all over again.

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

I remember the reaction a lot had to CJ so I'm not surprised Lincoln Clay is getting a similar one.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I have a lot of respect for Amir0x due to this thread. The research, time and care he puts into every post is much needed on this subject and he does more than his part here.

Racists, on the other hand always need reasons to mask their true intentions. It's much easier to say, this game can't be about this for REASONS or this isn't historically accurate than to say, I don't want to play as a black man or mafia cause I don't like black people.

I've played as white men for decades and it's never bothered me cause I don't have a problem with any race. You would think the times have changed but it's San Andreas all over again.

yep nothing ever changes. The sky is always falling.

 

[w0s]

I just wish it didn't have to be in New Orleans...

I wasn't aware my hometown was overrun with organized crime in the 1960's... Thieving politicians, sure, but organized crime? Come on.

I swear, if there's a chapter during a fucking hurricane I'm going to be pissed though...

Apparently there was a hurricane in 1965 so while many will scream katrina that isn't completely true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YogJfH3isU

 

[Coffee Dog]

Its incorrect narratively from what was shown in the trailer, and also historically. You would be more accepted in the black community because of things like the one drop rule, and the fact that a large part of the black community in America is already mixed to a degree.

Err, as someone who has mixed friends who have experienced this sort of thing, you can be more accepted by the black community, but still feel like you belong to neither, especially with certain skin tones. I've had one tell me that each side of their family only sees the other half, and it's a pretty sad shitty situation to be in. I think it would be great if that sort of exclusion was covered in the game, but that is probably too high a bar for a big game like this to clear.

 

[soulchilde]

excellent write up and I love the direction they are going.

Edit- The music so far in the trailers and other quick look is great. Hopefully, they'll release a companion CD/Download of the music

 

[levious]

I just wish it didn't have to be in New Orleans...

I wasn't aware my hometown was overrun with organized crime in the 1960's... Thieving politicians, sure, but organized crime? Come on.

I swear, if there's a chapter during a fucking hurricane I'm going to be pissed though...

You're surprised that a port city has organized crime?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Err, as someone who has mixed friends who have experienced this sort of thing, you can be more accepted by the black community, but still feel like you belong to neither, especially with certain skin tones. I've had one tell me that each side of their family only sees the other half, and it's a pretty sad shitty situation to be in. I think it would be great if that sort of exclusion was covered in the game, but that is probably too high a bar for a big game like this to clear.

That's my understanding. The guys he approaches seem friendly to him but maybe it's a situation where the second shit gets real they mention the other race as an insult so the protag wouldn't ever feel like he fully belongs to either.

 

[soundscream]

People born from a white parent and a black parent were often ostracized in all of the americas. More accepted by the black community maybe. But they often felt like they didn't belong in either group.

That american blacks were already often mixed did not affect how a mixed child was treated by both groups. Mullato was even an official govt term until world war ii or something.

Just going off what was told to me by my grandparents who were both mixed and grew up in North Carolina in the 1930s but what ever.

 

[moered6]

What is with some white males and hiding their racist views by devising some bullshit version of reality.

 

[levious]

Just going off what was told to me by my grandparents who were both mixed and grew up in North Carolina in the 1930s but what ever.

Well nothing's universal, don't mean to try to discredit your grandparents' perception either. But also I'd say the gulf region's experience for mullatos/creole's might have been unique from the atlantic coast.

 

[Shredderi]

There are people outraged by this? For me it's one of the most initially interesting aspects of this game.

 

[The Last Wizard]

What is with some white males and hiding their racist views by devising some bullshit version of reality.

To not come off as racist I'd imagine.

I know I shouldn't but I'm gonna check the main thread now:/

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Err, as someone who has mixed friends who have experienced this sort of thing, you can be more accepted by the black community, but still feel like you belong to neither, especially with certain skin tones. I've had one tell me that each side of their family only sees the other half, and it's a pretty sad shitty situation to be in. I think it would be great if that sort of exclusion was covered in the game, but that is probably too high a bar for a big game like this to clear.

Honestly, YMMV from family to family. For the most part, that's not something that goes on (in my experience). I was told my grandfather would only play with/talk to my second oldest brother because he was very light skinned, while my oldest brother is the darkest in my family..he denied he was his grandson.

Some people just suck is what I'm getting at..

 

[jerry1594]

I'm pretty sure by the late 60s the Italian mafia had to start incorporating blacks into their operations. I think I saw it in book from the 70s about Bill Bonanno.

 

[Shining Sunshine]

I don't really mind about the new setting. I just want to know what happened to Jimmy. ;_;

Mafia 2 was a cliffhanger and I hope they conclude it, but seeing Vito means maybe it will.

 

[Basketball]

Is the protagonist based on a real person? He has a very unique look on him that not even the other lieutenants have.

 

[Enduin]

I'm totally down, though I won't lie I wish this was Mafia 4 and we already got a Mafia 3 a couple years ago that continued Vito's story in the last decade and half. I really like the 50s aesthetic and really wanted to see the fallout of Mafia 2's events since that game was such a tease. But this is a really interesting and cool new direction, really looking forward to seeing how they deconstruct the romanticized aspects of the mafia and explore the New Orleans setting.

 

[Pandora012]

I immediately fell in love with the game the moment they revealed the setting and protagonist. If they were going with another Italian mob-inspired game, I'd probably never think of it again

This is a different side of that old story that I'm simply not aware of. It already sounds like a way more interesting plot than Mafia II's.

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

It's an unfortunate choice of words, and I think that's it.

 

[GnawtyDog]

This discussion has focused on three points:

● That it does not make sense to have a black protagonist in such a series.
● That the themes handled in the Mafia series cannot be adequately handled by focusing on the Black Criminal Underworld.
● That historically it would not make sense to have a black man so intimately dealing with the Italian Mafia, especially in light of their extreme vitriolic racism toward this same community.

1. It makes whatever sense the creators want it to make.
2. False.
3. Solid point of contention but the creators can and always take some creative freedoms in making it work.

 

[Astrates]

I think the trailer was great and I'm looking forward to a diffent game seeing the same groups from a different point of view. I think the time period is perfect for the character, it's a time of great change for America and its change of views for civil rights.

 

[Corpekata]

1. It makes whatever sense the creators want it to make.
2. False.
3. Solid point of contention but the creators can and always take some creative freedoms in making it work.

You're arguing with someone that agrees with you. He is showing what the common points other people bring up are.

 

[Nephtes]

Apparently there was a hurricane in 1965 so while many will scream katrina that isn't completely true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YogJfH3isU

We (New Orleans) have been having hurricanes almost every year for forever that don't completely destroy the city. My point was and is, I hope the devs don't make this game some kind of political commentary on the Katrina situation...

Things in the city were not black and white, they were shades of grey... There was a lot that went down that had everything to do with survival and nothing to do with race. I honestly cannot recall living through a time when I was more scared than being in that city in the days after Katrina...

Mind you, it was my job to be there, I wasn't one of the people who chose to stay or didn't have the means to leave.

 

[JDSN]

Ok I take everything back I need me some safe white guy with brown hair.

 

[Pandora012]

1. It makes whatever sense the creators want it to make.
2. False.
3. Solid point of contention but the creators can and always take some creative freedoms in making it work.

You're arguing with someone that agrees with you. He is showing what the common points other people bring up are.

lol. A case of not reading the OP.

 

[Sijil]

It's an interesting take, but I really really wanted a Goodfellas Mafia game set in the 60's-70's. In the end I have to play it to judge it of course.

 

[Zaventem]

I never followed this series closely but from what i've seen it doesn't look to good. Shame about the overreactions to playing someone not white in a video game in 2015 though.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

1. This is a fantastic OP.
2. It is a tragedy that this thread is needed.

 

[Digital-Hero]

Looks like him for sure. Although for voice Reggie sounds like Pee Wee Herman compared to the main character VO in this game. It doesn't quite match with the model they are using.

 

[DeepEnigma]

1. This is a fantastic OP.
2. It is a tragedy that this thread is needed.

Agreed.

I am excited to see where this goes, and how they put it all together.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

That you thought automatically this was bad and racist (instead of you know, a very used expression when presenting a change in something, like a organization or a setting, which both applies here) makes your own point, ironically.
We have still have a long way to go.

 

[Game4life]

I dont understand why anyone cant express their disappointment at 2K going this route. People are free to be more interested in the lifestyle of an Italian mobster over anyone else. Anyways even if I will miss the music and story of Mafia 1, I will give this a shot if it is good.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I immediately fell in love with the game the moment they revealed the setting and protagonist. If they were going with another Italian mob-inspired game, I'd probably never think of it again

This is a different side of that old story that I'm simply not aware of. It already sounds like a way more interesting plot than Mafia II's.

Other than that, I'm still kinda shocked by the wording on IGN's article. To me, this proves that we still have a long way to go.

French site titled " Mafia 3 explores the darker side of the mob "

 

[iNvid02]

no qualms about this, ready for whatever story the devs want to tell. the time and setting chosen coupled with what they said about the mafia no longer being romanticised has me excited. the italian mob still look to play a major role in here, and we have old guy vito right there.