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[dreamfall]

Yeap. I just feel like the "set in a city open world" formula hasn't evolved in a long time in meaningful ways because it would take years of just prototyping to find something really really good and revolutionary for the genre and no one has that kind of time to just prototype when they gotta start developing the game in order to stay in business. Either that or the only way to really make a wholly satisfying open world experience is to have an absurdly long dev time to make each sidequest unique with set piece moments etc. which is obviously not viable. Anyway I just feel like this genre needs a big revolution. It's the reason I can't get really excited for games like Watchdogs, Mafia 3 or even GTA series because I just assume that they won't cure the big bad of open world games. Games like The witcher 3 and propably Horizon Zero dawn I can tolerate a lot better for some reason.

I think one of the most important qualities of an open hub/world game is ensuring that the player is continuously engaged when not in a heavily scripted set piece mission. If you think about Mafia II, Empire Bay is window dressing for the narrative to exist. Driving from one mission marker to the next becomes the main focus to usher the player into story progression, even though the player is free to roam about as s/he pleases. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve walked into the identical looking gun store, pulled out a shotgun, blasted the store clerk away and robbed the cash register. On my first playthrough, I did this every chance I got when not involved in a Story mission to accrue money. But money really wasn’t important in the game – I did it to craft an open, role playing experience for myself (as I imagine many others did). When you spend time exploring/sightseeing in the city, upgrading cars at the body shop, maxing out ammo at Harry’s gun store, there’s a sense of guiding your own experience throughout the story. The developers didn’t prescribe that element of going into a side mission and completing an objective, and the world certainly isn’t as dynamic as a sandbox as many other open hub/world games are. This resulted in a lot of criticism; many felt the excessive driving should’ve been cut and the story should’ve evolved in a more traditional linear approach. But I can’t tell you how much I appreciated the freedom to explore at my own pace. And the strengths of that game revolve around each Chapter’s design – the missions feel grander, the shootouts feature a ton of technical interior detail and each mission is unique (for a TPS cover based shooter).

I'm definitely falling asleep, but I have three tenets that make an open world/hub feel good to me:
1. The main story/progress missions have to be structured and memorable enough to make them stand out from sandbox/open filler
2. If there are side activities/missions involved, they need to be complex/varied. Even if the nature of the activity is the same across different parts of the maps - each encounter should feel unique and substantial.
3. Having dynamic encounters, that trigger based on where the player is in the world. This is where the revolution needs to happen.

I think Mafia III is accomplishing some of these goals (I hope), by transitioning to an open world structure.

 

[SprachBrooks]

The AI looks so fucking dumb lol.

 

[eXistor]

I haven't seen everything, but so far I have to say I think it looks boring. Nothing special. Not bad or anything, just more a question of what does this game bring that I haven't seen a million times before?

 

[tearsintherain]

I'm re-playing Mafia 2 right now and man one of the things I absolutely hated about that game was the speed limit and cops stuff. By default the game limits you to the speed limit, if you turn it off and exceed the speed limit you are pretty much noticed and chased by the cops within a minute. Any sort of road accident also triggers the cops coming after you.

Realistic? Yup! Annoying as hell in a video game? Yup.

 

[brawly]

I had no idea (possible spoiler)

Spoiler

Vitooo

is in this! Hype.

 

[Basketball]

Im exitced but we need to know the gritty details of the sandbox.

How does the wanted system work ?
Are civilians untouchable?
How long is the game ?
Do enemies try to regain lost turf after main game?
How is the custimization on Lincoln?

 

[Maintenance]

Speed limit was always a pain in the ass. I like realism but c'mon.

 

[Rellik]

On the Rooster teeth stream just now, Blackman states that they tie up loose ends with Joe. Not just easter eggs, but proper closure! Leo Galante also sent Vito to New Bordeaux, and is in the story!.

Day 1!

I had no idea (possible spoiler)

Spoiler

Vitooo

is in this! Hype.

He was in the very first trailer and on the poster.

 

[Saganator]

I didn't play Mafia II (have it on Steam, need to do it), but I don't remember the main character being forced to kill a bunch of innocent people in Mafia.

Is it me or does it not seem very mafia like to kill so many innocent people?

 

[Pachimari]

I'm playing Mafia 1 and then I'll move on to Mafia II in preparation for Mafia III. Just unfortunate that I read further up on this page that Vito is in Mafia 1 because I had no idea up until now.

 

[bunkitz]

I loved Mafia II and they're fixing what was its weakest link for me: that it was an open world but had not much, if any, side content to take on.

From everything I've seen, the game is looking fantastic, so I'm really excited for it. I would choose this over GTA any day. To be fair, though, I'm not a fan of GTA.

Anyway, there is one thing I'm kind of iffy about. The animations for a lot of Lincoln's melee kills with his knife (I think they're the stealth ones?) look way too over-the-top. I like that they're brutal because it says a lot about the character, but it's a bit too much, with the way it looks.

 

[Pachimari]

But with the side content, other problems arises. All the ways you can bring down a district's leader is repetetive as fuck, and this game can very well become boring in a short time. I really hope for the best though as I want Mafia III to turn out well.

 

[dreamfall]

I haven't seen everything, but so far I have to say I think it looks boring. Nothing special. Not bad or anything, just more a question of what does this game bring that I haven't seen a million times before?

It's difficult to define what's important to each specific gamer. I think the city in itself is an achievement. I think having a Black protagonist in a mob story is absolutely refreshing - which is why I think a lot of the success of the game hinges on the narrative being strong. As far as Third person open world games go, we have yet to see how it switches up the formula. It looks like a "Wanted" system from the Police is going to be different from Mafia II & GTA styles. The action set pieces are probably going to be way more detailed than Mafia II - and this in itself is really important to me. Any open world game can place a mission objective within the map, and allow you to use the sandbox tools to accomplish it. Few have a more structured, intricate approach with interiors. That's what I'm hoping for. I think a lot about Joe's Adventures and how a lot of the mainstream audience clamored for open world activities. If you look at the way the activities and missions are structured, there's a time limit and arcade activities for doing mundane tasks - the filler/side content in most open world games. This means chasing a target, stealing a car, getting into a fight club, assassinating an NPC, etc. The missions that stand out are the big scripted events that take place in new environments - the Witness, Connection, Supermarket and the Cathouse. These missions are inherently unique and feel more dynamic because they are impressively woven into the story without feeling like the objective is standard variation of what you've already been doing mindlessly for awhile.

I kind of hope that Mafia III allows for enough environmental variety in each district that makes the takeover/side activities of the city feel fresh - not repetitive, and not mundane. And for the bigger set pieces, with more explorable interiors.

I'm re-playing Mafia 2 right now and man one of the things I absolutely hated about that game was the speed limit and cops stuff. By default the game limits you to the speed limit, if you turn it off and exceed the speed limit you are pretty much noticed and chased by the cops within a minute. Any sort of road accident also triggers the cops coming after you.

Realistic? Yup! Annoying as hell in a video game? Yup.

I kind of enjoy it just because it feels like a half-baked simulation idea. I love that if you gun down police, and they arrive and you take them out- your car plates could have a Wanted status, in addition to your clothing. The star system brought the heat like a typical GTA-esque response, but it was hilarious to run into a clothing store and just erase it all. Or pull over to a phone booth to call it off. It was a neat touch, which undoubtedly made for some frustrating gameplay moments. The DLC definitely exposes this problem even more so- opening fire to take out a target and then attracting unwarranted police attention while trying to get to the end mission marker in time forced some creativity in getting through it. Probably for the wrong reasons.

I didn't play Mafia II (have it on Steam, need to do it), but I don't remember the main character being forced to kill a bunch of innocent people in Mafia.

Is it me or does it not seem very mafia like to kill so many innocent people?

I don't know if "forced" is the right way to put it - even wandering around aimlessly in Empire Bay, you could pull out a gun and kill everyone in sight. You're playing as a couple of anti-heroes, these are straight up criminals. The body counts are definitely high, but the nature of your interaction when not in a story mission is up to you.

 

[banefirelord]

I kind of hope that Mafia III allows for enough environmental variety in each district that makes the takeover/side activities of the city feel fresh - not repetitive, and not mundane. And for the bigger set pieces, with more explorable interiors.

This is what I'm hoping for based on all the footage. I'm an open world junkie and the reason I burn out on an open world game is almost never due to repetitive mission design alone but instead repetitive missions combined with repetitive environment design. I fell off Assassin's Creed Syndicate quickly because everywhere in the world looked pretty much the same apart from the big landmarks, and I absolutely hated Infamous Second Son for similar reasons. By contrast, RDR is one of my favorite games of all time even though most of the missions can be boiled down to "go here, shoot this." The reason was because the world felt alive and unique. No two places felt the same, and the sheer pleasure of always finding something new to see and explore made every samey gunfight worth the bullets.

For me, a well designed open world should be varied and feel handcrafted and unique in every corner, compelling exploration for the pure sake of seeing the world, not to fill a checklist of side activities. From what I've seen of Mafia III, particularly that drive from the bayou into downtown in the 20 minute demo, this should hopefully not be a problem.

 

[High Rise]

I've never played a Game from the mafia series before, but this game is looking legit amazing! That boat crash sequence looked so good!! This could be my goty!

 

[dreamfall]

I loved Mafia II and they're fixing what was its weakest link for me: that it was an open world but had not much, if any, side content to take on.

From everything I've seen, the game is looking fantastic, so I'm really excited for it. I would choose this over GTA any day. To be fair, though, I'm not a fan of GTA.

Anyway, there is one thing I'm kind of iffy about. The animations for a lot of Lincoln's melee kills with his knife (I think they're the stealth ones?) look way too over-the-top. I like that they're brutal because it says a lot about the character, but it's a bit too much, with the way it looks.

I think the takedowns are meant to be way over the top and absolutely brutal. I don't know if this is an appeal to just the hyperviolence and grisly nature of killing in the name of revenge, but I can appreciate it. I think maybe the insistence on allowing the player to perform these executions might undermine the characterization of Lincoln. But in the same regard, I don't want them to compromise - we're playing an anti-hero and he definitely needs enough complexity in his characterization to make the story work. I think giving the option to use the takedowns to stealthily butcher or blast your way through could be a lot of fun. But it feels more like grindhouse violence, than subtle/sleeker approach.

I've always felt that if gun play was used sparingly, and with a bit of fear instead of indulgently, it'd feel way more significant. As it stands (and maybe this is me being desensitized to a lot of the videogame violence), I can see that they've wanted to make the player feel powerful while allowing for some variety in the TPS approach.

This is what I'm hoping for based on all the footage. I'm an open world junkie and the reason I burn out on an open world game is almost never due to repetitive mission design alone but instead repetitive missions combined with repetitive environment design. I fell off Assassin's Creed Syndicate quickly because everywhere in the world looked pretty much the same apart from the big landmarks, and I absolutely hated Infamous Second Son for similar reasons. By contrast, RDR is one of my favorite games of all time even though most of the missions can be boiled down to "go here, shoot this." The reason was because the world felt alive and unique. No two places felt the same, and the sheer pleasure of always finding something new to see and explore made every samey gunfight worth the bullets.

For me, a well designed open world should be varied and feel handcrafted and unique in every corner, compelling exploration for the pure sake of seeing the world, not to fill a checklist of side activities. From what I've seen of Mafia III, particularly that drive from the bayou into downtown in the 20 minute demo, this should hopefully not be a problem.

Amen to this. I'm also an open world enthusiast, and I think you're absolutely correct in saying that environmental variety/design is very important even with repetitive mission design. I'm one of those masochists that took over the entire city in Syndicate, Second Son, and enjoyed that filler aspect in Mad Max. I think part of it is the feeling of freedom to explore and engage at your own pace, and also to keep completing the same tasks to upgrade your character/arsenal. It's lazy mission design - it absolutely is. But I think a lot of publishers think that they've got to sell an open world single player game with a number of mindless filler quests/collectibles to keep the player involved, instead of working on the quality of the open world experience. I agree with you - I think Red Dead Redemption is probably my favorite open world game ever, mostly because of the environmental variety. Tall Trees looks and feels vastly different from Casa Madrugada, Thieve's Landing is probably my favorite area in the game and there's no other piece of the map that it resembles. That handcrafted aspect of the world is very important. I think Rockstar does it best, but it needs a lot of improvement.

I think it's important that each piece of the map feels different. Unique, offering different elements of gameplay as well. I love the Strangers and Freaks missions in RDR/GTA because they are fun side mission that feels like the game has character. Not just an objective based "go to mission point/kill/follow/complete task," they disguise it effectively. I think open world designers have to work on dynamic events that make the game world feel organic and alive. Instead of just being ambushed in Read Dead by a woman and the gang, maybe killing/sparing her should have an effect for the next open world dynamic event. A string of gameplay consequences based on a player's interactions with random elements that are triggered throughout the map. I think that's where the genre has to go. But who knows!

 

[banefirelord]

I think open world designers have to work on dynamic events that make the game world feel organic and alive. Instead of just being ambushed in Read Dead by a woman and the gang, maybe killing/sparing her should have an effect for the next open world dynamic event. A string of gameplay consequences based on a player's interactions with random elements that are triggered throughout the map. I think that's where the genre has to go. But who knows!

This sounds so great. There's such a gulf between that sort of emergent, living world interaction and actual progression in a lot of games (which is what Mafia claims to be sort of addressing, to be fair). I'm so rarely rewarded for treating a sandbox game like a damn sandbox and engaging with its open-ended systems.

Just Cause 2 is one of the few games I can think of that was actually quite masterful at this (though not in the way you're describing) by tying its unlock currency into object destruction...slamming planes into oil rigs and doing fun physics stuff all fed directly into character progression and unlocks.

Oblivion had a small scale example of what you're talking about too, which I'm so sad more devs don't do...you could only join the Dark Brotherhood by killing an NPC and you could only end up in the Thieves' Guild if you spent a night in jail. Making choices in emergent gameplay directly affected the story options available to your character. I was so disappointed when Skyrim's versions of the guilds all had fixed points of entry.

Only getting progressive results by engaging in proscribed, linear mission structures feels, to me, completely antithetical to the ethos of freedom that comes inherent to promise of the open world. The current design paradigm (which really hasn't evolved much since GTAIII), while I adore so many of the games that it has produced, seems sadly schizophrenic and lacking as a result.

 

[dreamfall]

Huber also spoke on his impressions - the takeaway being he is worried about driving, feels like the shotgun is one of the best ever created in a videogame, the game's atmosphere is incredible and that the dense districts feel unique/you can get lost in them! Here !

I think the point about each district feeling inherently unique is one of the important qualities of the game - if they've added a ton of activities that might feel repetitious, it's important that the interiors/locations of each of these events make gameplay feel dynamic. Huber also is the best storyteller/hype man in the biz, hands down!

 

[Pachimari]

Huber also spoke on his impressions - the takeaway being he is worried about driving, feels like the shotgun is one of the best ever created in a videogame, the game's atmosphere is incredible and that the dense districts feel unique/you can get lost in them! Here !

I think the point about each district feeling inherently unique is one of the important qualities of the game - if they've added a ton of activities that might feel repetitious, it's important that the interiors/locations of each of these events make gameplay feel dynamic. Huber also is the best storyteller/hype man in the biz, hands down!

At what minute in the video do they speak about Mafia III?

 

[dreamfall]

At what minute in the video do they speak about Mafia III?

I linked it from the start time- 3:19:30 mark! The schedule is also in the description for the video.

 

[Pachimari]

I linked it from the start time- 3:19:30 mark! The schedule is also in the description for the video.

It's just starting at 00:00 here, strange but thanks.

 

[Stiler]

Easy Allies impressions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6YbnDgAuYQ


Sounds interesting but he does have concerns that they have went "ubisoft" style open world and the map is filled to the brim with collect-a-thon crap.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Definitely interested after its e3 showing.

 

[jesu]

The 60's setting and the soundtrack have really sold me on the game, can't wait.

 

[dex3108]

Interview with Lead Writer

https://youtu.be/Wvanvm8qvsk

 

[robotrock]

On the Rooster teeth stream just now, Blackman states that they tie up loose ends with Joe. Not just easter eggs, but proper closure!

Very cool!

Super hopeful for this game. The impressions are promising.

 

[Raptor]

Easy Allies impressions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6YbnDgAuYQ


Sounds interesting but he does have concerns that they have went "ubisoft" style open world and the map is filled to the brim with collect-a-thon crap.

I love that stuff myself but if the gameplay is not fun I just pass, I love Mad Max and Im doing all the useless side stuff and Im having lots of fun even if its repetitve because the combat is satisfying as hell.

I havent seen in this game that combat is satisfying at all yet, need more raw gameplay to determine that.

Hows the gunplay feedback more than anything.

 

[Deleted member 325805]

I absolutely hate the fluff content in UBI games, especially in Assassin's Creed because if you don't do it you don't have the currency to upgrade abilities and buy new items, it's a shame Mafia III will be more of the same.

 

[Stiler]

I love that stuff myself but if the gameplay is not fun I just pass, I love Mad Max and Im doing all the useless side stuff and Im having lots of fun even if its repetitve because the combat is satisfying as hell.

I havent seen in this game that combat is satisfying at all yet, need more raw gameplay to determine that.

Hows the gunplay feedback more than anything.

For me the thing about it is when it gets in tihe way. When they tie the actual story-missions and crap to doing the super-reptitive copy + paste style "missions" that literally constantly repeat themselves and such

Mafia I and II were great imo because they did not bog you down with all this side stuff. You had an open world but the focus was purely on the storyline. IT never felt bogged down because it had a zillion iuseless side missions or anything.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Looking forward to this game. Been looking for something to satisfy that itch that Godfather games left with teh empire building and taking over rackets thing. Hope this does the trick.

 

[PositiveGamer]

Should this game debuted in the MS or Sony conference??

I mean.. it was amazing and I don't see many talking about it which leads me to believe that there's unfortunately many that wasn't exposed to the game!

Thoughts?

 

[Stiler]

Should this game debuted in the MS or Sony conference??

I mean.. it was amazing and I don't see many talking about it which leads me to believe that there's unfortunately many that wasn't exposed to the game!

Thoughts?

They had one of the best booths in the entire E3 showroom. Lots of people saw it and plenty of news sites (IGN, Gamespot, etc) talked about it with pretty good praise.

 

[dex3108]

Should this game debuted in the MS or Sony conference??

I mean.. it was amazing and I don't see many talking about it which leads me to believe that there's unfortunately many that wasn't exposed to the game!

Thoughts?

Well 1.5M people watched IGN gameplay video soo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3DaHzBcdQk

 

[Walpurgis]

Should this game debuted in the MS or Sony conference??

I mean.. it was amazing and I don't see many talking about it which leads me to believe that there's unfortunately many that wasn't exposed to the game!

Thoughts?

I agree. Like 40 million people watched E3 on Twitch. That's 40 million that could have seen their next GTA and missed it.

They had one of the best booths in the entire E3 showroom. Lots of people saw it and plenty of news sites (IGN, Gamespot, etc) talked about it with pretty good praise.

E3 is a relatively exclusive event. The vast majority of people don't get to see who has the coolest looking booth. For these people, the conferences are their primary point of interaction. No amount of news articles can make up for that. Hype for Mafia III is definitely lower than it should be, imo (just look at this thread). And it is all Take-Two's fault.

 

[dreamfall]

Should this game debuted in the MS or Sony conference??

I mean.. it was amazing and I don't see many talking about it which leads me to believe that there's unfortunately many that wasn't exposed to the game!

Thoughts?

I think the way that they premiered it was really informative and really in depth- and I appreciated that greatly. 20+ minutes of footage, developer interviews, analysis of the trailer they had just launched = I wish all games took that approach. It would've been nice to see the trailer on one of the E3 stages, but the gameplay reveal needed it's own segment. And I think they brought it out really well.

 

[dreamfall]

Family Kick-back trailer, for the preorder bonuses. Hopefully these items become free over time, with a season pass/preorder items, it's never fun losing out on small pieces of content.

The cars/weapons look pretty unique/badass!

Kick-back!

 

[Disgraced]

That trailer is too good for pre-order bonuses lol.

 

[dreamfall]

That trailer is too good for pre-order bonuses lol.

Each weapon and car looks really unique. That trench gun/Smith Morray combo attributed to Vito is going to be awesome to mess around with. Also, the video is 60FPS, I'm assuming that's the PC version they are showing. Everything looks great, hopefully those who don't pre-order don't miss out on them too.

 

[BrassDragon]

Family Kick-back trailer, for the preorder bonuses. Hopefully these items become free over time, with a season pass/preorder items, it's never fun losing out on small pieces of content.

The cars/weapons look pretty unique/badass!

Kick-back!

The music is going to make this game. Awesome.

 

[DaveMG]

Ive been waiting for mafia 3 since 2010 after i finished two and when it was rumoured to be set in 60's New Orleans i was really excited as i love the culture and music. then after the gameplay footage i dont think ill buy it unless it comes super cheap. It just looks generic really.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

I said fuck it and I preordered during the 100 get 15 back psn thing.

Not many games have a black MC.
Setting looks nice as hell.
Sucker for the mafia thing.
Sucker for building up your own crew.
Loving the fact that it will be wholly single player. Hopefully DLC doesnt dissapoint and maybe get something like heists for it. I can see myself enjoying this more than GTA V.
Liked what I have seen so far. Along with the videos and the way EA/GB described it.
I like that I get the godfather empire/rackets thing vibe from it.

Sidenote: Fucking Hubert, I can listen to him tell a story about taking out the trash.