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[nicoga3000]

Not sure if posted, but Gen Con Indy shared this a few minutes ago.

 

[Haly]

So I'm thinking Izzet and Boros in Return to Ravnica.

Possibly two more guilds, since we already have lands for W/B, W/U, W/G, W/R, U/B, U/R, B/R, R/G, that leaves B/G and U/G. Or Golgari and Simic.

 

[f0rk]

I'd say Stensia Bloodhall falls squarely into the "really bad" territory. (Although I guess if you have nothing better to do with your mana one turn, it's better than nothing)

Other than that though, I really like the lands in this block. I've always been a sucker for lands that do stuff.

That's one of the expensive ones, a land that gives inevitability is still really good but 5 mana is pushing it.

So I'm thinking Izzet and Boros in Return to Ravnica.

Possibly two more guilds, since we already have lands for W/B, W/U, W/G, W/R, U/B, U/R, B/R, R/G, that leaves B/G and U/G. Or Golgari and Simic.

There is already a B/G land, it's the other one that isn't great.

 

[Haly]

I see the BG land is so awful I didn't know it existed.

 

[The Technomancer]

Assassin's Stronghold (or something like that)

Land (Rare)

T: Add 1 to your mana pool.
RW, T : Target creature gains +2/+0 and has haste and vigilance until the end of turn.



Man this card is good. Real good.

It looks alright but the B/W land is still my vote for most powerful in the block. That thing is basically a land bomb.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

That's one of the expensive ones, a land that gives inevitability is still really good but 5 mana is pushing it.

Plus tapping the land itself, so it's effectively 6 mana for 2 damage that has to go upstairs. I guess it fills the same niche as Nephalia Drownyard - an alternate win condition in a control deck that's really hard to take out. It's just not the kind of thing I look at and get excited by (like, say, Gavony Township or Kessig Wolf Run or Vault of the Archangel).

EDIT: Of course, Nephalia Drownyard also has other uses considering the amount of self-mill in this format, so the comparison isn't exactly fair, but you get the point.

EDIT2: Didn't an AVR land get spoiled earlier that had a U/R looting effect? That one also looks really awesome.

Not sure if posted, but Gen Con Indy shared this a few minutes ago.

I love the artwork and flavor text, especially against what's happening...but am I missing something or does that card look like a really bad idea to cast - ever?

 

[OnPoint]

It looks alright but the B/W land is still my vote for most powerful in the block. That thing is basically a land bomb.

Moorland Haunt, Kessig Wolf Run and Gavony Township are the go-to game winners out of the entire cycle so far, though.

 

[Haly]

Whoever plays that in a Multiplayer game should be lynched.

 

[ultron87]

I love the artwork and flavor text, especially against what's happening...but am I missing something or does that card look like a really bad idea to cast - ever?

You clearly just need to have Sigarda out and then Donate the enchantment to your opponent.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I love the artwork and flavor text, especially against what's happening...but am I missing something or does that card look like a really bad idea to cast - ever?

Hah - forget I ever said that. For some reason I had a massive brain fart and wasn't considering that you could exile Descent as its ability resolves. So the effect will (eventually) stabilize.

Still, best multiplayer troll card ever.

 

[Haly]

It's "exile", no luck there.

What you need to do with this is to somehow generate a bunch of tokens to pitch to this, then exile it once the damage is done.

 

[Lucario]

I really, -really- like the flavor, art, etc on Descent into Madness.

I'm also glad it's awful -- we don't need any more good Smokestack effects. It's not a fun deck to play against. Should make an awesome casual joke-ish card.

I see the BG land is so awful I didn't know it existed.

It's terrible in Standard, but it's a very good sacrifice outlet in EDH. Bloodhall is the only "bad" land of the cycle, and even it has some casual applications.

 

[f0rk]

You clearly just need to have Sigarda out and then Donate the enchantment to your opponent.

Neither of these have any effect on the card

 

[ultron87]

Crap. Totally read that as Sacrifice.

 

[Haly]

I'm also glad it's awful -- we don't need any more good Smokestack effects. It's not a fun deck to play against. Should make an awesome casual joke-ish card.

Numerically speaking, you always wind up ahead of your opponent, because you can choose to pitch the enchantment at some point.

So, if n total permanents/cards are exiled due to Descent into Madness, you'll only have to exile n-1.

 

[Lucario]

For the curious, this is the card that Descent is an homage to. Now aren't you glad they nerfed it?

Numerically speaking, you always wind up ahead of your opponent, because you can choose to pitch the enchantment at some point.

So, if n total permanents/cards are exiled due to Descent into Madness, you'll only have to exile n-1.

Descent into Madness is a card (and sacrifices are simultaneous) so unfortunately, you're spending 3BB for neutral card advantage.

 

[darkside31337]

I really, -really- like the flavor, art, etc on Descent into Madness.

Too bad it's fucking terrible.

Think you're really selling the card short. It's got a lot of interesting synergy with tokens and other cards like Hex Parasite, Liliana, Grisel and what not.

You're sacrificing tokens. Your opponent is sacrificing actual cards on the field and from their hand.

 

[Haly]

Descent into Madness is a card (and sacrifices are simultaneous) so unfortunately, you're spending 3BB for neutral card advantage.

Ah, I didn't think about it like this.

 

[Venfayth]

I've been working on a deck designed around curses, and I think it is ready for the gaf critique. Gave it a first run last night and it surpassed my wildest expectations, going 5-0 against some of the toughest decks in my play environment.

Some notes:
-The whole point of the deck is curse damage, that's not something I'm willing to change
-Didn't need my creepy dolls at all (which actually made me kinda sad), so those will probably be the first thing to go.
-Cards marked with a '*' are those I'd like to add more copies of; this was a first draft. I haven't bought singles for it yet.
-Many of the decks in my play environment use a ton of creature removal, and I'd like to keep the creature count down to make those cards as useless as possible.
-I am not looking to build a hyper-competitive deck...just a fun one that'll shake up my play environment a bit. >=]



Curse of Death's Hold turned out to be more critical than I expected, and I already have a couple more of those so that'll be my first addition. Might throw in another Misfortune, Thirst and/or Bloodletting as well. The problem is all the 5cc spells. The Xcc damage spells help a little with this gap but I think I can do better. That's the main area where I'm looking for advice: any 3- or 4cc spells you can think of that would work here?

Thanks guys.

Do you just lose if they have a witchbane orb? xD

This deck looks fun, though. I might try messing around with it on mtgo.

 

[y2dvd]

Am I the only one that thinks the new Champion will be a little slow and weak?

 

[OnPoint]

Am I the only one that thinks the new Champion will be a little slow and weak?

The green one? I think it's going to be pretty good actually, especially in fast-paced green-white token decks.

Maybe I can finally make Parallel Lives work with it...

 

[Haly]

Am I the only one that thinks the new Champion will be a little slow and weak?

I agree. Champion of the Parish it is not. Champion's true strength does not come from his ability alone, but the combination of that and being a one drop.

Not that it's a bad card, but I think it is definitely inferior to Champion of the Parish.

 

[Lucario]

Am I the only one that thinks the new Champion will be a little slow and weak?

Nope. It's a 3-drop that dies to gut shot, gets reset off vapor snag, and, most importantly, leaves you open to some -terrible- situations.

Let's say you're playing WG tokens and start off with a fairly ideal play, manage to drop your new champion guy on turn 2, and load him up with counters, lucky enough to avoid gut shot/shock/etc.

If your opponent kills or bounces him in the declare attackers step (after attackers are declared), you're left with an unfavorable position; your opponent's creatures can block whatever the hell they feel like now, and you're likely to lose some attackers with no benefit because you assumed your dudes were unblockable.

It's a card that rewards poor play and poor combat decisions. You can throw the "dies to removal" silliness out the window; this is a card that can -lose you the game on the spot- if someone unsummons it.

 

[joelseph]

It loses the tribal restriction so you can better protect it with shit like spellkite and still get the pump. At least!

 

[echoshifting]

Do you just lose if they have a witchbane orb? xD

This deck looks fun, though. I might try messing around with it on mtgo.

heh, basically yes.

I'll have to put in a bit of artifact removal, but if I convince my friends to start running witchbane orbs in everything I will consider this experiment a huge success!

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

What happened to OnPoint?

Nope. It's a 3-drop that dies to gut shot, gets reset off vapor snag, and, most importantly, leaves you open to some -terrible- situations.

Let's say you're playing WG tokens and start off with a fairly ideal play, manage to drop your new champion guy on turn 2, and load him up with counters, lucky enough to avoid gut shot/shock/etc.

If your opponent kills or bounces him in the declare attackers step (after attackers are declared), you're left with an unfavorable position; your opponent's creatures can block whatever the hell they feel like now, and you're likely to lose some attackers with no benefit because you assumed your dudes were unblockable.

It's a card that rewards poor play and poor combat decisions. You can throw the "dies to removal" silliness out the window; this is a card that can -lose you the game on the spot- if someone unsummons it.

Dunno, if that one card losses you the game, your deck is kind of shitty then.

 

[Hex]

What happened to OnPoint?




Dunno, if that one card losses you the game, your deck is kind of shitty then.

I agree.
I get so sick of people pointing to fantasy scenarios where the opponent always has the card they need to point out how bad a card is.
When I build a deck, I tend to build to cover all bases and if they do not gutshot/snag this then they would gutshot/snag something else?
Seriously drives me crazy when people do this.
It is why the MTG salvation forums are so nauseating these days.

As for On Point I think he got picked off in a thread concerning gender identity.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I agree.
I get so sick of people pointing to fantasy scenarios where the opponent always has the card they need to point out how bad a card is.
When I build a deck, I tend to build to cover all bases and if they do not gutshot/snag this then they would gutshot/snag something else?
Seriously drives me crazy when people do this.
It is why the MTG salvation forums are so nauseating these days.

If it's so shitty though, what is such a better card? Any card with counters get's hit if it get's vapor snagged... A lot of things suck then. It's only 3 mana and if you're ramping that's like literally nothing. The reason it's more is because you can ramp with green. It's not perfect but I can't see it's bad for the price.

 

[echoshifting]

What happened to OnPoint?

This happened

 

[Lucario]

I agree.
I get so sick of people pointing to fantasy scenarios where the opponent always has the card they need to point out how bad a card is.
When I build a deck, I tend to build to cover all bases and if they do not gutshot/snag this then they would gutshot/snag something else?
Seriously drives me crazy when people do this.
It is why the MTG salvation forums are so nauseating these days.

As for On Point I think he got picked off in a thread concerning gender identity.

First of all, it's not a fantasy scenario for your opponent to have a removal spell.

The issue is that it takes multiple conditions fulfilled to make the card good, and only one of dozens of played pieces of removal or bounce to completely screw you over. Not to mention that, in a vacuum, it's a 1/1 for 3 with a mediocre ability. Far too slow for any token deck.

If it's so shitty though, what is such a better card? Any card with counters get's hit if it get's vapor snagged... A lot of things suck then. It's only 3 mana and if you're ramping that's like literally nothing. The reason it's more is because you can ramp with green. It's not perfect but I can't see it's bad for the price.

In Standard alone:

Champion of the Parish is effectively the same thing in a Human deck, but it costs one mana instead of three. The unblockable ability is fairly irrelevant since it sets you up for absurd card disadvantage.

Mirran Crusader will often attack for more damage at the same mana cost and dodges much removal. Silverblade Paladin has the same benefits of Crusader with the added bonus of having one of your creatures attack for twice as much damage the turn it comes into play. To make Champion of Lambholt deal as much damage as either, you'd need a minimum of three creatures entering the battlefield on turn 4. That's just setting yourself up for a blowout.

For mono green, Dungrove Elder will often attack for 4 the turn after it enters the battlefield, and dodges all removal.

Blade Splicer has 4 power divided across two creatures, three of which has first strike, for the same mana cost. Even if one is removed, you still have the other.

 

[zoukka]

If it's so shitty though, what is such a better card? Any card with counters get's hit if it get's vapor snagged... A lot of things suck then. It's only 3 mana and if you're ramping that's like literally nothing. The reason it's more is because you can ramp with green. It's not perfect but I can't see it's bad for the price.

imo just the 1 body/no evasion makes it reaaally hard to play. Not to say I have deep understanding of current standard, but it just seems unremarkable by all standards.

 

[Sinatar]

I agree.
I get so sick of people pointing to fantasy scenarios where the opponent always has the card they need to point out how bad a card is.
When I build a deck, I tend to build to cover all bases and if they do not gutshot/snag this then they would gutshot/snag something else?
Seriously drives me crazy when people do this.
It is why the MTG salvation forums are so nauseating these days.

As for On Point I think he got picked off in a thread concerning gender identity.

This isn't a fantasy scenario though.

If you make a big attack under the assumption your guys won't be blocked and the champ gets snagged or removed then your army is going to get crushed. It's a legit concern.

 

[Hex]

If it's so shitty though, what is such a better card? Any card with counters get's hit if it get's vapor snagged... A lot of things suck then. It's only 3 mana and if you're ramping that's like literally nothing. The reason it's more is because you can ramp with green. It's not perfect but I can't see it's bad for the price.

There are some green cards in this set, including this one that are making me really look forward to some fun down the line.

This champion, Descendent's path, and Druid's repository make me very happy to get back green aggro

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This happened

:|

First of all, it's not a fantasy scenario for your opponent to have a removal spell.

The issue is that it takes multiple conditions fulfilled to make the card good, and only one of dozens of played pieces of removal or bounce to completely screw you over. Not to mention that, in a vacuum, it's a 1/1 for 3 with a mediocre ability. Far too slow for any token deck.




In Standard alone:

Champion of the Parish is effectively the same thing in a Human deck, but it costs one mana instead of three. The unblockable ability is fairly irrelevant since it sets you up for absurd card disadvantage.

Mirran Crusader will often attack for more damage at the same mana cost and dodges much removal. Silverblade Paladin has the same benefits of Crusader with the added bonus of having one of your creatures attack for twice as much damage the turn it comes into play. To make Champion of Lambholt deal as much damage as either, you'd need a minimum of three creatures entering the battlefield on turn 4. That's just setting yourself up for a blowout.

For mono green, Dungrove Elder will often attack for 4 the turn after it enters the battlefield, and dodges all removal.

Blade Splicer has 4 power divided across two creatures, three of which has first strike, for the same mana cost. Even if one is removed, you still have the other.

All those cards can be bounced also... And if you wait like you said then silver blade paladin sucks too since you're probably counting on the double strike and if they bounce it the other creature is still attack and loses double strike. Dungrove is debatable. I think it's a lot harder to use in a deck that you would use this in and that makes hexprrof but this card has a nice ability. Mirran I think is also debatable since you almost have to wait until turn 3 to play since you can't really ramp white where this is green so you can ramp it. I think the champion of the parish may be better depending on the deck but I still don't think this is LOL REMOVAL IT SUCKS. Again, there's other cards that take counters and are used because they take counters and they suck just as much if they're bounced...

 

[f0rk]

I agree.
I get so sick of people pointing to fantasy scenarios where the opponent always has the card they need to point out how bad a card is.
When I build a deck, I tend to build to cover all bases and if they do not gutshot/snag this then they would gutshot/snag something else?
Seriously drives me crazy when people do this.
It is why the MTG salvation forums are so nauseating these days.

As for On Point I think he got picked off in a thread concerning gender identity.

It's a 1/1 for 3. It's not a very good card.

 

[echoshifting]

What card are you guys talking about? I'm not seeing it for some reason.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

What card are you guys talking about? I'm not seeing it for some reason.

From last page:

 

[Hex]

It's a 1/1 for 3. It's not a very good card.

3 for green is nothing, easily out turn 2, making them react right away thus changing up their options or else next turn you drop two more creatures and attack with the champion easily.

If they do react and vapor snag or gutshot this one , then you are free to drop your huntmaster or something else safer on the next turn.

First of all, it's not a fantasy scenario for your opponent to have a removal spell.

The issue is that it takes multiple conditions fulfilled to make the card good, and only one of dozens of played pieces of removal or bounce to completely screw you over. Not to mention that, in a vacuum, it's a 1/1 for 3 with a mediocre ability. Far too slow for any token deck.

Not saying that is fantasy unto itself, but unless you are a complete flaw at making decks you have multiple threats on top of threats.
It is a fantasy to base cards always on the worst case scenario.
Champion is awesome, but only triggers for humans but for white it is amazing.
If this were any other color than green I would say it were jank, but with green's ramp ability this is easy turn 2 and I do agree that tree folk can be a better play in mono green, but if not mono green not so much.

 

[echoshifting]

Thanks, I have some massive blind spot I guess

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Thanks, I have some massive blind spot I guess

Blinded by how awesome it is

 

[zethren]

I dunno, I feel that she might be a decent addition to my GW Humans.

t1: Forest, Avacyn's Pilgrim.
t2: Forest, Champion of Lambholt.
t3: Land, drop more humans nice and cheap (a couple champion of parishes, gather the townsfolk, mirran crusader, elite inquisitor, etc).

It's overextending quite a bit though. Gavony Township is a good partner for her though, as is Mayor of Avabruck.

 

[The Technomancer]

The champion doesn't seem super good to me. It reminds me of a better version of Animar, Soul of Elements. I can definitely see a spot for her in my Rith-Zoo EDH deck

 

[Inflammable Slinky]

I dunno, I feel that she might be a decent addition to my GW Humans.

t1: Forest, Avacyn's Pilgrim.
t2: Forest, Champion of Lambholt.
t3: Land, drop more humans nice and cheap (a couple champion of parishes, gather the townsfolk, mirran crusader, elite inquisitor, etc).

It's overextending quite a bit though. Gavony Township is a good partner for her though, as is Mayor of Avabruck.

The only thing that really jumps out at me is that she works with lingering souls, the most creature efficient spell in standard.

 

[f0rk]

3 for green is nothing, easily out turn 2, making them react right away thus changing up their options or else next turn you drop two more creatures and attack with the champion easily.

If they do react and vapor snag or gutshot this one , then you are free to drop your huntmaster or something else safer on the next turn.

Champion of the Parish is good because you can play him turn one and then play a reasonable card turn 2 such as Thalia or Gather The Townsfolk and not be sacrificing anything.
These kind of plays for this guy are way behind the curve when you already played an underpowered guy turn 3.
It doesn't even need to be removed straight away, I could just wait to see what card you are playing to try and make your bad 3 drop in to a slightly better one and react accordingly. This guy has no board presence on her own.
What's more, Dungrove or a Sword are both not only more powerful, more resilient 3 drops, they are also much much better top decks later in the game (CotP has this problem to but he's a 1 drop so it's more acceptable).

And she might work with Lingering Souls, but good luck with that mana base.

 

[Hex]

Champion of the Parish is good because you can play him turn one and then play a reasonable card turn 2 such as Thalia or Gather The Townsfolk and not be sacrificing anything.
These kind of plays for this guy are way behind the curve when you already played an underpowered guy turn 3.
It doesn't even need to be removed straight away, I could just wait to see what card you are playing to try and make your bad 3 drop in to a slightly better one and react accordingly. This guy has no board presence on her own.
What's more, Dungrove or a Sword are both not only more powerful, more resilient 3 drops, they are also much much better top decks later in the game (CotP has this problem to but he's a 1 drop so it's more acceptable).

And she might work with Lingering Souls, but good luck with that mana base.

Again, I do love Dungrove completely but if you are not playing mono green he is not always the best choice.
I also agree with the no presence on her own, but I see potential as far as building around.

 

[WanderingWind]

This happened

Seemed to me that he said a guy looked like a guy. Is that offensive? I don't know.

 

[Hex]

Seemed to me that he said a guy looked like a guy. Is that offensive? I don't know.

Just certain threads you bail out of as soon as you peek inside because they are mine fields.

 

[WanderingWind]

Just certain threads you bail out of as soon as you peek inside because they are mine fields.

With certain eternally faux outraged people, yeah.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

My cards came in from OnPoint! I hope he sees this.

 

[y2dvd]

Lucario and F0rk pretty much covered why I feel the new champion isn't good. It will take several turns to take advantage of her ability. There are other 3 cmc cards that has more value straight from the get-go.