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Magic: The Gathering |OT|

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Brettison said:
Thanks! That actually makes sense. Considering I'm playing the game version of DOTWP though my deck only has one type of land so far.

You'll unlock dual-color decks later in the singleplayer campaign if it's anything like DotP2K9.

BTW I can't even beat the 1st dude after the tutorial. LOLOLOLOL

What difficulty setting did you put it on? The hardest one is a cheating motherfucker, the easiest is braindead, and normal is balanced.

If you want to learn and practice, I'm willing to download Apprentice (or is is Magic Workstation now?) if it runs on Win7 64-bit and help you out.

Of course, I'm not sure if they have Magic 12 cards in yet.
 
NVM.... I went with the white looking deck that had some flying creatures (angel) that it had the cursor originally on verses me going back one to the green forest deck (the deck I used on the one pre done tutorial level) and won with full health. LOLOLOL

Definitely was a fault of mine by going back to the land deck verses the 1st dude. It was obvious to me they wanted me to chose that other starter deck they gave me as soon as I started playing with that one. 1st two times I was getting owned, and the 3rd match with that white deck verses the forest deck = cake walk!
 
It's not really a "they force me to choose this deck," just it's better suited against the deck you're playing against.

The colors/lands all have a strength and weakness in general play. You can win with that Forest/green deck you were using, but it's harder because you have to get lucky draws/be on the ball to get the win.
 
Okay another question....

When I block I block the other opponents attack, but it seems I also attack my opponent's card as well?

So if there card is a 3/1 and mine is a 2/2. I get 2 blocking their 3 attack with the extra 1 going to dmg my character AND I attack with my 2 verses 1 so his card dies and is sent to the graveyard at the end of the combat phase?
 
Brettison said:
Okay another question....

When I block I block the other opponents attack, but it seems I also attack my opponent's card as well?

So if there card is a 3/1 and mine is a 2/2. I get 2 blocking their 3 attack with the extra 1 going to dmg my character AND I attack with my 2 verses 1 so his card dies and is sent to the graveyard at the end of the combat phase?

Attack units---> Power/Life. <---This last one is important

So, in your example:

3/1
2/2 Blocking

2/2 -> 3/1... 3/0 card death, but your card is now... 1/2 HOWEVER, damage is dealt both ways. So his 3/0 card deals your card to 1/0.

Both cards die.
---
Edit: Okay, that may be a little hard to understand.

Power/Life.

Your dealing damage BOTH WAYS during attack combat. You're "trading blows," to speak.

3/1 deals 3 damage to 2/2
2/2 deals 2 damage to 3/1

3/1's value becomes 1 (left over attack point)/0 (life)
2/2 value becomes 1 (left over attack point)/0 (life, dealt by 2 from attacker)

Both cards die.
 
Brettison said:
So if there card is a 3/1 and mine is a 2/2. I get 2 blocking their 3 attack with the extra 1 going to dmg my character AND I attack with my 2 verses 1 so his card dies and is sent to the graveyard at the end of the combat phase?
Yes. Both creatures damage each other.

Here's something to note: you only take the extra 1 damage if the opponent's creature has an ability called Trample. If their 3/1 did not have trample then you would take no extra damage.
 
The_Technomancer said:
Here's something to note: you only take the extra 1 damage if the opponent's creature has an ability called Trample. If their 3/1 did not have trample then you would take no extra damage.

Not to mention you can direct multiple damage.

Say that 3/1 is blocked by a 1/1 and a 2/2

3/1 deals 1 damage to 1/1 and 2 damage to 2/2
2/2 deals 2 damage to 3/1
1/1 deals 1 damage to 3/1

3/0 (doesn't matter the source) card death
2/0 (2 damage by 3/1) death.
1/0 (1 damage by 3/1) death.

All cards die.
 
Okay the edit made WAAAAAAYYYY more sense as the original posting by TheSeks was getting a big uhhhhh WTF from me. LOL

I seem to get that now. At least for one on one....

How do you determine shit if you have multiple cards blocking?
 
Brettison said:
Okay the edit made WAAAAAAYYYY more sense as the original posting by TheSeks was getting a big uhhhhh WTF from me. LOL

I seem to get that now. At least for one on one....

How do you determine shit if you have multiple cards blocking?
The person attacking gets to pick how the damage is dealt. I think that Duels actually screws this up by not letting you pick the amount, unless I've been playing wrong for the last two years.
 
Brettison said:
Okay the edit made WAAAAAAYYYY more sense as the original posting by TheSeks was getting a big uhhhhh WTF from me. LOL

I seem to get that now. At least for one on one....

How do you determine shit if you have multiple cards blocking?

Look above you just as I posted. :p

Trample in Techno's case means any additional damage would be hitting you.

Say that 3/1 has trample. You have a 1/1. You decide to block because you're stupid and don't know the rules (:p) and don't see the advantage of holding back that 1/1 next turn.

3/1 trample deals 1 damage to 1/1
1/1 deals 1 damage to 3/1

2/0 death, but 2 "rolls over" the 1/1 block. You lose 2 life. (20->18 in this case)
1/0 death.

Both cards die, but you lose 2 HP.
 
TheSeks said:
Look above you just as I posted. :p

Trample in Techno's case means any additional damage would be hitting you.

Say that 3/1 has trample. You have a 1/1. You decide to block because you're stupid and don't know the rules (:p) and don't see the advantage of holding back that 1/1 next turn.

3/1 trample deals 1 damage to 1/1
1/1 deals 1 damage to 3/1

2/0 death, but 2 "rolls over" the 1/1 block. You lose 2 life. (20->18 in this case)
1/0 death.

Both cards die, but you lose 2 HP.

BUT BUT... damn the game is all flashing BLOCK up in my business so I hate to not block... LOLOL
 
The_Technomancer said:
The person attacking gets to pick how the damage is dealt. I think that Duels actually screws this up by not letting you pick the amount, unless I've been playing wrong for the last two years.


Duel's goes by "can I deal enough to destroy it?" priority last I checked. Which makes it easy to use for beginners that don't know how to damage multiple people, but also makes it stupid in case you wanted destroy a lower cost creature as opposed to putting multiple damage on a higher level creature.

Like a 4/4 and a 2/2 blocks your 4/7 (giant growth, or whatever, just roll with it +0/+X instant spell)

4/4 if chosen gets the 4 damage. Otherwise 2/2 gets 2 damage, 4/4 gets 2 damage.

It's really stupid to have to micromanage that, but...

Brettison said:
BUT BUT... damn the game is all flashing BLOCK up in my business so I hate to not block... LOLOL

Blocking is useful and you should do it, but there is cases where it's better to take more/some damage and have the other person's card "tapped" because tapped cards CAN NOT BLOCK YOU.

So for instance, if you have like 40 HP and they have 20 HP (handicapped round), LET THE TRAMPLE THROUGH if you have a 2/1 haste goblin in the wings with your 1/1 goblin not summoned-sicknessed.

Because that next turn, you'd (theoretical) summon the 2/1 haste goblin.

Then attack round:

2/1 haste (no summon sickness, so can attack this turn)
1/1

2+1 = 3 damage that can't be blocked by the 3/1 trample card.

20->17 HP of the enemy.

In DotP on Braindead Easy or in some games of Normal, the AI WILL NOT attack you with 1/1 weenies, so you can basically let the 2+/0 powered cards through and then summon a bunch of 1/1 cards and attack freely because the AI is braindead and doesn't think "well, I can remove all his 1/1 weenies and have my 2+/0 cards have free access to his HP!"

There's a reason the loading screen for DotP advertises this:

"It's okay to be at 1 life point, as long as your opponent has 0!"

So long as you have the ability to ramp up damage, taking more damage in the short turn doesn't hurt. Because they can't attack you on your round. You could basically take 3 damage from 1/1's for two-three turns, then summon a 4/1 haste and suddenly be doing more damage than they are doing.

The enemy then has to either go "well, shit, do we want to let that 4/1 haste creature stay around, or block it the next turn and damage it?" (unless card removal spells are in their deck) This means: THEY WON'T ATTACK the next round because they'll prepare to block your 4/1, which is a good thing because then you have other methods (flying, lava axe, etc.) of dealing damage while making your opponent guess.

If you basically block willy-nilly and just go "well, I'll block the damage now" and you have NO CREATURES TO SUMMON AFTER, you basically give them free access to your HP pool to ramp up damage while you flounder with no ability to damage them yourself to at least turn the tide.
 
The_Technomancer said:
The person attacking gets to pick how the damage is dealt. I think that Duels actually screws this up by not letting you pick the amount, unless I've been playing wrong for the last two years.

For some reason, I thought they changed this in M10. The attacking player only gets to choose if the creature has Trample. Otherwise, it's assigned in an order of blockers determined by the blocking player. (Edit: This is actually not the case)

Example:

Attacking: 2/2
Blocking (in this order): 1/1, 2/2, 1/1

The first 1/1 would be killed, the 2/2 would recieve 1 point of damage, and the last 1/1 would take no damage. If the original 2/2 would have had trample, you could have either killed the 2/2 or both 1/1's. I honestly need to look this up. I don't know if I can get to the official rules at work, but I'll edit this post when I get a solid answer.

Also, how you described it was definitely how I learned it back in the day. For some reason I'm convinced it's different now. I only played briefly after they changed the combat rules.

Edit one: I am pretty sure Duels lets you choose if your creature has Trample. Can any one confirm?

Edit two: Ok, I'm going to leave my message in tact for discussion sake, but for the most part it is incorrect. The combat rules did change in this regard, but not as I had imagined them. The attacking player chooses a damage assignment order. So, in the example above, you could still choose 2/2, 1/1, 1/1 or 1/1, 1/1, 2/2 for maximum gain. This is slightly different than before. Long ago, if a 3/3 was blocked by three 2/2's you could, for whatever reason, assign 1 damage to each of them, killing none of them. This is not the case anymore. Now, "lethal" damage must be assigned to the first creature before moving on to the next one.

(With Deathtouch, "lethal" damage is always one, so in the case of the 3/3 and 2/2's, if the 3/3 had Deathtouch, they would all be assigned 1 damage and die)
 
Enordash said:
For some reason, I thought they changed this in M10. The attacking player only gets to choose if the creature has Trample. Otherwise, it's assigned in an order of blockers determined by the blocking player.

Example:

Attacking: 2/2
Blocking (in this order): 1/1, 2/2, 1/1

The first 1/1 would be killed, the 2/2 would recieve 1 point of damage, and the last 1/1 would take no damage. If the original 2/2 would have had trample, you could have either killed the 2/2 or both 1/1's. I honestly need to look this up. I don't know if I can get to the official rules at work, but I'll edit this post when I get a solid answer.

Also, how you described it was definitely how I learned it back in the day. For some reason I'm convinced it's different now. I only played briefly after they changed the combat rules.

Edit one: I am pretty sure Duels lets you choose if your creature has Trample. Can any one confirm?
Blocking order is determined by the attacker after blocks have been declared.
 
Yeah, being able to pick any amount of blocking damage is important for Deathtouch, like if your opponent (for some weird reason) blocked your 3/3 deathtouch with three 5/5s
 
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, being able to pick any amount of blocking damage is important for Deathtouch, like if your opponent (for some weird reason) blocked your 3/3 deathtouch with three 5/5s

I think I would concede to that person for having giant balls. (I wouldn't actually, but I would laugh myself into a fit of hysteria)
 
The_Technomancer said:
Yeah, being able to pick any amount of blocking damage is important for Deathtouch, like if your opponent (for some weird reason) blocked your 3/3 deathtouch with three 5/5s

Does damage to the attacking creature not resolve at the end of each block?

I've only been playing the Duels games for a few weeks now, but I was under the impression that if I had attacked in that scenario, the 3/3 deathtouch would be wiped out while killing the first 5/5 blocker, leaving the remaining two 5/5s on the field?

Have I been mistaken, or is this just some trick of the automatic damage assignment?

(This isn't even why I entered the thread, I was here to say I'd just got myself a Magic Online account because of how much I've loved the Duels games, and I think it's time to start working on playing the real game, albeit the online flavour due to there not being much to go about IRL where I live)
 
jigglywiggly said:
Does damage to the attacking creature not resolve at the end of each block?

I've only been playing the Duels games for a few weeks now, but I was under the impression that if I had attacked in that scenario, the 3/3 deathtouch would be wiped out while killing the first 5/5 blocker, leaving the remaining two 5/5s on the field?

Have I been mistaken, or is this just some trick of the automatic damage assignment?

(This isn't even why I entered the thread, I was here to say I'd just got myself a Magic Online account because of how much I've loved the Duels games, and I think it's time to start working on playing the real game, albeit the online flavour due to there not being much to go about IRL where I live)

Probably a trick of the game. You only have to assign lethal damage to a creature before you can deal damage to the next. Since your creature has deathtouch, however, lethal damage = 1 damage. As such, you could deal 1/1/1 damage to three 5/5, as 1 damage is enough to kill it in such case.

Dunno how the system works in DoTP though. Would be dumb if they didn't implement it.
 
So far last night I got a lot better and was doing really well against the comp players 1 on 1 in campaign. What was waaaayyyy harder were the challenge setups. They just throw you in, and I'm like WTF is going on here. Always ends up being some weird card ability, and I know to look for that. Yet it's always some weird timing issue of when to use it that throws me. Plus since it's a video game version there are timers and shit to make stuff move and flow. I think some of this might be easier to do in an actual physical game to be honest.
 
BTW, damage doesn't actually reduce toughness. I'm seeing that in a couple of explanations and it's not correct, and it does make a difference.

If a vanilla 2/2 blocks a vanilla 3/1, what happens is they both do damage to each other at the same time. The 3/1 has 2 damage assigned to it, and since that is greater than its toughness, it dies. The 2/2 has 3 damage assigned to it and dies for the same reason.

Suppose a 2/2 blocks a 5/5. The 2/2 gets 5 damage and dies, the 5/5 gets 2 damage and lives. It is still a 5/5 though. Why does this make a difference? If after combat I have 4 cards in my graveyard and cast Ghastly Demise on your 5/5, nothing will happen because it stil has 5 toughness. Even though it has 2 damage assigned to it, it is not a 5/3. A 5/3 would die to the Ghastly Demise.

There are any number of cards which care about a creature's toughness, like Condemn and Vendetta.
 
So after looking at the M12 stuff that was leaked I was all like "I'm going to skip this one. I do not need more cards. I am an adult, and I don't need to buy something just because it is new."

I bought a booster box today.

...I'm such a goddamn consumer whore.
 
Brettison said:
So far last night I got a lot better and was doing really well against the comp players 1 on 1 in campaign. What was waaaayyyy harder were the challenge setups. They just throw you in, and I'm like WTF is going on here. Always ends up being some weird card ability, and I know to look for that. Yet it's always some weird timing issue of when to use it that throws me. Plus since it's a video game version there are timers and shit to make stuff move and flow. I think some of this might be easier to do in an actual physical game to be honest.
Its actually a bit harder in the real game because most people skip right over most of the timing stuff since it doesn't come into play much, you have to actually go "wait wait stop, I do this"

The challenges are great for teaching you little tricks and aspects of the rules though.
 
FieryBalrog said:
BTW, damage doesn't actually reduce toughness. I'm seeing that in a couple of explanations and it's not correct, and it does make a difference.

If a vanilla 2/2 blocks a vanilla 3/1, what happens is they both do damage to each other at the same time. The 3/1 has 2 damage assigned to it, and since that is greater than its toughness, it dies. The 2/2 has 3 damage assigned to it and dies for the same reason.

Suppose a 2/2 blocks a 5/5. The 2/2 gets 5 damage and dies, the 5/5 gets 2 damage and lives. It is still a 5/5 though. Why does this make a difference? If after combat I have 4 cards in my graveyard and cast Ghastly Demise on your 5/5, nothing will happen because it stil has 5 toughness. Even though it has 2 damage assigned to it, it is not a 5/3. A 5/3 would die to the Ghastly Demise.

There are any number of cards which care about a creature's toughness, like Condemn and Vendetta.
Technically yes, but its important to note that its toughness doesn't change, but damage does remain on it until the end of the turn (119.6)
So a 5/5 that blocks a 3/3 can then be killed with Arc Trail in Main Phase 2

(also, Duels does actually depict it as a change in toughness, which I think is yet another one of their "new player concessions")
 
Brettison said:
BUT BUT... damn the game is all flashing BLOCK up in my business so I hate to not block... LOLOL

A good rule of thumb is to never block unless your block will kill the attacking creature, or you're going to die.


The_Technomancer said:
Yes and no. Its toughness doesn't change, but damage does remain on it until the end of the turn (119.6)
So a 5/5 that blocks a 3/3 can then be killed with Arc Trail in Main Phase 2

Yea, I know that :p
 
jigglywiggly said:
Does damage to the attacking creature not resolve at the end of each block?

I've only been playing the Duels games for a few weeks now, but I was under the impression that if I had attacked in that scenario, the 3/3 deathtouch would be wiped out while killing the first 5/5 blocker, leaving the remaining two 5/5s on the field?

Have I been mistaken, or is this just some trick of the automatic damage assignment?

(This isn't even why I entered the thread, I was here to say I'd just got myself a Magic Online account because of how much I've loved the Duels games, and I think it's time to start working on playing the real game, albeit the online flavour due to there not being much to go about IRL where I live)

All combat damage is done simultaneously. The trick here is how damage is assigned. You have to choose an order of assignment, then deal lethal damage to them in the assigned order before you can move onto the next creature.

In this example, the 3/3 with Deathtouch attacks and three 5/5's block it. The order of assignment in this instance is actually irrelevant. Now, you assign lethal damage to the first 5/5 (1 point) then move to the second 5/5 (1 point) and finally the last remaining 5/5. Each 5/5 assigns its 5 damage to the 3/3.

Now, combat damage is dealt. The 3/3 is dealt 15 damage at the same time each 5/5 is dealt 1 damage. Therefor, all four creatures die.

Edit: This explanation might have been unnecessary if that question was already resolved, lol.
 
FieryBalrog said:
A good rule of thumb is to never block unless your block will kill the attacking creature, or you're going to die.

You might want to make a couple notes on Defenders and chump blockers there. That rule of thumb seems a little too wide open to exceptions for me.

Edit: Crap, sorry about the double post...
 
Enordash said:
You might want to make a couple notes on Defenders and chump blockers there. That rule of thumb seems a little too wide open to exceptions for me.

Edit: Crap, sorry about the double post...

Yea, just for newbies. New players tend to chump block wayyy too often. You should rarely be chumping.

Of course, I should've said it's fine to block if your creature won't die in the process.

Magic is all about exceptions, so there are of course 1000 exceptions to the rule and different abilities that modify combat. If you have a token generator, or you really don't want the creature to hit you because it's equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice, or whatever. Still, "don't chump block unless you're going to die" is a fairly useful starting point.
 
Okay, bought an M12 fat pack anyway.

Result: one r/b mana, some crap rares, an Automaton, a Birds of Paradise, 2 Grave Titans, and a foil Frost Titan.
 
Brettison said:
So far last night I got a lot better and was doing really well against the comp players 1 on 1 in campaign. What was waaaayyyy harder were the challenge setups. They just throw you in, and I'm like WTF is going on here. Always ends up being some weird card ability, and I know to look for that. Yet it's always some weird timing issue of when to use it that throws me. Plus since it's a video game version there are timers and shit to make stuff move and flow. I think some of this might be easier to do in an actual physical game to be honest.

What challenges, you mean the "Magic: The Puzzeling" bits? Those are puzzles, they're meant for advance more-than-beginner players. Ignore those right now while you learn the rules and abilities.
 
So my box contained
Jace (foil)
Jace (reg)
Chandra
Frost Titan
Inferno Titan
Sun Titan
Grim x 2
Worldslayer
All the mages
Gob
Chandra's Phoenix (foil)
Primordal Hydra
Adaptive Automaton
Pentavus
Quicksilver Amulet

Cards I didn't get but wanted
Angelic Destiny
 
Quick question about MTGO:

Are the Planeswalker cards just there to be a sort of taster for new people? The game seems to throw boatloads of them at you for very little money, but I haven't seen a single Planeswalker game be played outside the New Players room.

I should just ignore these and concentrate on the Standard cards, right?
 
Yeah it's some kind of alternative format that noone plays. They introduced it recently I think. I didn't open the Planeswalkers format cards pack cos I did't want it polluting the rest of my collection.
 
Went to my LGS's Release event today. I slept through my alarm so I missed the main draft, so I chilled and played some Vintage and Standard until we started an 9-person Sealed event. I went 2-2 with a decent UGr deck (red for 2 Fireballs). My first loss was round 1 before I added the Fireballs, and the second was round 3 in a very close match. Fun times, but no prize.

After that I played some Legacy and then started in an 8-man team draft (4v4). Some of the picks were embarrassing on both sides: 4th pick Pentavus, one person getting passed 2 Overrun, getting passed an Inferno Titan. We rocked that shit during the first round of matches, after which 2 people on the other team left for Mohegan Sun and so we won the draft.

Headed up to my home town tomororow for a Standard tournament for a sealed box of Worldwake. They suck there, so I'm hoping for an easy win.
 
Went 3-2, lost my last match to the best limited player in the state. Pretty much par for the course for me. 3-2 might as well be stamped on my forhead as I seem to get that record every goddamn draft and end up either in 9th just missing top 8, or just barely making top 8 if the field is weaker. This is how it goes, I show up drunk, lose my first match because I put together a shitty drunk deck. Change my deck up to something better, win three in a row, and then lose my last match against some other strong player because I've been hitting the bar next door all night and by the fifth round I am shitty drunk again.
 
WanderingWind said:
So my box contained
Jace (foil)
Jace (reg)
Chandra
Frost Titan
Inferno Titan
Sun Titan
Grim x 2
Worldslayer
All the mages
Gob
Chandra's Phoenix (foil)
Primordal Hydra
Adaptive Automaton
Pentavus
Quicksilver Amulet

Cards I didn't get but wanted
Angelic Destiny

That was a damn good box! Ill trade you my soul for foil jace :p
 
Got a box of M12:

Jace, Memory Adept
Inferno Titan
Primeval Titan
Sorin Markov

and I've yet to open 6 packs. 6 of us got a case together and we're all saving our last 6 packs to do a draft.

I'm pretty happy with my box, a few of the better rares plus I have a Grave Titan, Furyborn Hellkite and Bloodlord of Vaasgoth from the pre-release draft last weekend. Can't wait to see more of the next expansion already though.
 
The_Technomancer said:
So a friend of mine is going to buy an M12 box and then six of us are going to do $15 dollar Sealed. To which I replied "$15 Sealed? Hell yes!"
:O Thats a good deal. I wanna do sealed again. I like all the packs.
 
someone in the wall thread mentioned the idea of someone explaining it all to a newbie, i think this is an awesome idea and should be added to the OP, comprehensive-style. ight make me take it up. i played pokemon cards in gradeschool 10 years ago, but thats it.
 
I've never played Archenemy "mode"/gametype. Does DotP 2012 explain it at all? I just unlocked it and there is no tutorial level as far as I can tell for it.
 
manipulate said:
Yeah it's some kind of alternative format that noone plays. They introduced it recently I think. I didn't open the Planeswalkers format cards pack cos I did't want it polluting the rest of my collection.

I wish I'd have done that now. Every time I go to construct a new deck now I keep forgetting to put the filter on, and I'm usually 30 or so cards in before I spot that half of them are gold-bordered.

Anyway, I played a lot over the weekend. I still can't construct for shit, though. It usually takes 4 or 5 heavy defeats and re-tuning sessions before I can start to actually get somewhere, and even then it's usually luck of the draw. I played with a pure red deck for a while before switching to pure green, and then going for a green/black deck that has only ever given me long, drawn-out games that last over an hour.

Some of the opponents had really interesting decks. This one guy was using pure blue, and only played to deplete my library. Made for a really fun game.

But about 75% of my opponents were pure black, and every time I saw them play nothing but Infect cards I wanted to reach through the screen and punch them in the face. Is there any way to remove poison counters from yourself?
 
jigglywiggly said:
But about 75% of my opponents were pure black, and every time I saw them play nothing but Infect cards I wanted to reach through the screen and punch them in the face. Is there any way to remove poison counters from yourself?

One old card : Leeches

Other than that, no.
 
What actually triggers a creature with Trample to have it's remaining power go through to the player as damage? Is it destroying the blocking creature or putting out enough damage to kill the blocking creature?

Aka, would a blocking 2/2 creature with "Prevent all damage to this creature" absorb all the damage from something with trample or would it only reduce that damage by 2?
 
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