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[marrec]

That was mostly due to speculation after it was unbanned and unrestircted in Legacy and Vintage. A better example might be Dark Depths or Flash. DD was a junk rare until Vampire Hexmage was printed, after which it shot up to be very playable in Legacy and Extended. And Flash was the same until it's power-level errata was changed (and promptly broke the format).

Or Splinter Twin which was a $1 card until Exarch was printed... though it's still T2.

Ya, it's a shame there was never an Urza card.

It wouldn't HAVE to be uber powerful. Just make Urza Badass-Adept or something and have Young Urza.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I would love a legit Urza planeswalker card. It would have to be insanely powerful to please the hardcore fans though. I was way more into the story back in the days of Invasion (and the surrounding blocks). I even went as far as to read a couple of the books back then. I was super excited to see Phyrexia make a return.

Ya, it's a shame there was never an Urza card.

Or Splinter Twin which was a $1 card until Exarch was printed... though it's still T2.



It wouldn't HAVE to be uber powerful. Just make Urza Badass-Adept or something and have Young Urza.

I still think it's hilarious that the foil splinter twins I bought for $1.50 are now being sold for $18.

 

[alternade]

Anyone have any suggestions for a Standard-legal aggro-control deck? I actually have a chance to play FNM for the next couple of months (normally I wind up working late-the curse of the 30-something magic player with a real job ) and was thinking about what deck to play.

Looked at the U/B control lists and they are way too much on the control end. The modern Caw-Blade lists are a bit more my style but there will be no end of tears from the other side of the table if I play that.

I'm a longtime player of Legacy stifle/wasteland/goyf tempo decks and am looking for something that does it like that, understanding that the mana curve will be a bit wilder due to the format. Maybe one day they will reprint Tarmogoyf and all will be right with the MTG world once again.

I'm thinking something that plays like Bant Mythic ( before the Conscription combo kill) or U/B Faeries-decks with control elements that had remarkably aggressive turn 3/4 plays. Does anything like this exist in Standard? The older RUG decks before they axed super Jace were about what I was looking for.

Me and a friend hae been building/playtesting a mid range G/W aggro-control deck for a couple weeks now. Its main base is:
Acidic Slime
Overgrown Battlement
Wall of Omens
Beast Within
Terastodon
Mold Shambler
Oblivion Ring(was Journey to nowhere, but this is leagues better)

The main idea is to ramp up to play Terastaodon and overrun them. The walls provide you with enough buffers and with Battlement a ton of mana. Once you get 4 land and 3-4 walls out start blowing up your lands with beast within.

I play a more aggro version with Baloths, baneslayer angel and wurmcoil engine. My friend plays more control with Gideon, and more walls, but both have made top eight consistenly.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Ya, it's a shame there was never an Urza card.

I like to pretend that Tolarian Academy is the "Urza" card. It's blue, whole heaps of busted, and has some of the most iconic artwork (and matching flavor text) in the game, IMO. Did I mention it taps for one million mana?

 

[Enordash]

I like to pretend that Tolarian Academy is the "Urza" card. It's blue, whole heaps of busted, and has some of the most iconic artwork (and matching flavor text) in the game, IMO. Did I mention it taps for one million mana?

There are still people who point out that Blind Seer was Urza in disguise so he technically has a card of his own (I think this was confirmed to be true?).

 

[marrec]

There are still people who point out that Blind Seer was Urza in disguise so he technically has a card of his own (I think this was confirmed to be true?).

I don't think it was ever confirmed... but according to http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Blind_Seer it is most definatly Urza.

But that is punk ass Urza.

I've got it, Planeswalker Card "Urza, Chief Artificer" and make him better than Tezz.

 

[Enordash]

I don't think it was ever confirmed... but according to http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Blind_Seer it is most definatly Urza.

But that is punk ass Urza.

I've got it, Planeswalker Card "Urza, Chief Artificer" and make him better than Tezz.

Urza, Chief Artificer

Cardtype: Planeswalker

Subtype: Urza

Loyalty: 4

Casting Cost: 1UUU

Card Text: +1: Search your library for an artifact with converted mana cost 4 or less and put it onto the battlefield.
0: Put a copy of target artifact onto the battlefield under your control.
-6: Destroy X target permanents where X is the number of artifacts you control.

 

[V_Arnold]

Urza, Chief Artificer

Cardtype: Planeswalker

Subtype: Urza

Loyalty: 4

Casting Cost: 1UUU

Card Text: +1: Search your library for an artifact with converted mana cost 4 or less and put it onto the battlefield.
0: Put a copy of target artifact onto the battlefield under your control.
-6: Destroy X target permanents where X is the number of artifacts you control.

Haha. Haha. Haaaha. Hahaaaaaaa.
Haha.

*repeat*
Yeah, this combines Jace's self-defense (almost) with the Mystic's tutoring that made Batterskull insanely strong. Sword out on the turn this gets put down? Hah.

The ultimate is insane. The artifact search (Mox Opal!!) is iiiinsane!

EDIT: Funny thing is, Wizards would actually be able to print something like this again... and then apologize a year later.

 

[Enordash]

Haha. Haha. Haaaha. Hahaaaaaaa.
Haha.

*repeat*
Yeah, this combines Jace's self-defense (almost) with the Mystic's tutoring that made Batterskull insanely strong. Sword out on the turn this gets put down? Hah.

The ultimate is insane. The artifact search (Mox Opal!!) is iiiinsane!

EDIT: Funny thing is, Wizards would actually be able to print something like this again... and then apologize a year later.

The insanity was the point of it, lol.

Edit: Yea, I didn't want it to be completely unrealistic, but it was definitely supposed to be unprintable.

 

[marrec]

EDIT: Funny thing is, Wizards would actually be able to print something like this again... and then apologize a year later.

"Sorry guys, we didn't forsee people abusing this, we have now banned it... After it's price reached $160."

 

[Enordash]

"Sorry guys, we didn't forsee people abusing this, we have now banned it... After it's price reached $160."

Lol! Let's rally to get this thing printed

 

[The Technomancer]

"Sorry guys, we didn't forsee people abusing this, we have now banned it... After it's price reached $160."

Man there are some lessons that just need to be learned. Anything that messes with the core balancing systems has the potential to be broken and needs to be treated with extreme caution. Bypassing mana costs and converting resources in particular, and tutoring to a lesser extent.

 

[WanderingWind]

Man there are some lessons that just need to be learned. Anything that messes with the core balancing systems has the potential to be broken and needs to be treated with extreme caution. Bypassing mana costs and converting resources in particular, and tutoring to a lesser extent.

Or, make it common enough so that it's not restricted to only the richest of players.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Or, make it common enough so that it's not restricted to only the richest of players.

Well that only happened because it was so powerful that worldwake sold out really quick. It was just a side effect of the ridiculously high demand.

 

[WanderingWind]

Well that only happened because it was so powerful that worldwake sold out really quick. It was just a side effect of the ridiculously high demand.

Well, it started as a mythic rare, right? Meaning less were printed? Or is that incorrect?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Well, it started as a mythic rare, right? Meaning less were printed? Or is that incorrect?

Ah, that's what you meant. There will never be a planeswalker that isn't mythic unless they go back to not having mythics.

 

[An-Det]

Ah, that's what you meant. There will never be a planeswalker that isn't mythic unless they go back to not having mythics.

Or do a Kamigawa-like block where there are a shitton of planeswalkers at all rarities.

 

[Rokam]

With Adaptive Automoton do you have to be specific like Human Knight or can you just say Human?

 

[The Technomancer]

With Adaptive Automoton do you have to be specific like Human Knight or can you just say Human?

You can just say Human. Each word in a creatures subtype is its own type.

 

[WanderingWind]

Ouch. Just learned that red sucks with enchantment removal.

Manabarbs is annoying to play against!

 

[Utako]

Got Magic 2012 off of Steam.

Haven't played magic in at least 10 years. It's really fun, and has only changed slightly.

The videogame itself is ... effective. I was expecting something closer to a Strategy RPG and less like Monopoly. You know, something you couldn't simply do with Magic Online.

Well, it was only $25!

 

[Enordash]

Ouch. Just learned that red sucks with enchantment removal.

Manabarbs is annoying to play against!

I have a friend that is using Manabarbs + Personal Sanctuary. The deck uses small creatures to keep some pressure on the opponent and board sweepers like Day of Judgement so they have no choice but to play cards or lose. It's an interesting concept, but it hasn't been fully playtested yet. It should probably be able to win regardless of getting the combo on the board.

 

[WanderingWind]

I have a friend that is using Manabarbs + Personal Sanctuary. The deck uses small creatures to keep some pressure on the opponent and board sweepers like Day of Judgement so they have no choice but to play cards or lose. It's an interesting concept, but it hasn't been fully playtested yet. It should probably be able to win regardless of getting the combo on the board.

Damn, manabarbs plus Day of Judgement, plus small cast creatures? Brilliant against red. Terrible against green though. Or vampires.

 

[marrec]

Damn, manabarbs plus Day of Judgement, plus small cast creatures? Brilliant against red. Terrible against green though. Or vampires.

I don't see where Manabarbs is that harsh against RDW or Gobos. The damage to mana ratio is crazy in turns 1-4 and even if you get Barbs down on Turn 2 or 3 they will keep happily tapping because they aren't racing you yet.

I can't imagine a situation while playing my K-Red deck that I'd be scared to see Manabarbs drop.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Ya, for a red deck, you should have enough aggro which is all small drops to not give a shit about mana barbs. Plus you should have enough aggro to be swinging early that by a turn 4 day of judgment doesn't do much since your creatures probably can't get through by then. Black doesn't have any removal like that either and they get screwed hard when like a feast and famine or other pro black thing makes it way out unless they can get a black sun off. Manabarbs is good for red since you're always paying 1 or 2 and they're probably paying more depending on the deck.

 

[Orayn]

Ya, it's a shame there was never an Urza card.

Can't be done, really. Urza is a classic planeswalker, usually represented in-game by players. Karn and Bolas were like this as well, but they had some crazy depowering stuff happen to them in the aftermax of that whole Time Spiral debacle.

 

[marrec]

Ya, for a red deck, you should have enough aggro which is all small drops to not give a shit about mana barbs. Plus you should have enough aggro to be swinging early that by a turn 4 day of judgment doesn't do much since your creatures probably can't get through by then. Black doesn't have any removal like that either and they get screwed hard when like a feast and famine or other pro black thing makes it way out unless they can get a black sun off. Manabarbs is good for red since you're always paying 1 or 2 and they're probably paying more depending on the deck.

Right, I've been considering adding Manabarbs to my SB for control decks, it'd be nice to have some shots to the head regardless of creature situation. Though being as I'm testing K-Red right now, if I slow down enough to be able to cast Manabarbs then I'm probably dead anyway.

 

[Enordash]

Right, I've been considering adding Manabarbs to my SB for control decks, it'd be nice to have some shots to the head regardless of creature situation. Though being as I'm testing K-Red right now, if I slow down enough to be able to cast Manabarbs then I'm probably dead anyway.

How has K-Red done lately in the tournament scene? I recall reading that everyone was spooked of K-Red so there was a ton of hate against it and therefore it bombed pretty hard. I bet it could make a mighty come back when people start adjusting sideboards away from it.

I've personally always liked the idea of Manabarbs but could never find a good use for it. From my experience, against anything other than control, it's really only worth about 5-7points of damage when it's all said and done. You'd be far better off with something like Shrine of Burning Rage in my opinion (if you are playing sligh and trying to put the game away).

Can't be done, really. Urza is a classic planeswalker, usually represented in-game by players. Karn and Bolas were like this as well, but they had some crazy depowering stuff happen to them in the aftermax of that whole Time Spiral debacle.

I would say it can't be done because Urza is dead.

EDIT: That being said though, IIRC, both Urza and Gerrard were resurrected countless times by one of the Phyrexians so they could continuously duel to the death (in Apocalypse). Now that Phyrexia has made a comeback...

 

[marrec]

How has K-Red done lately in the tournament scene? I recall reading that everyone was spooked of K-Red so there was a ton of hate against it and therefore it bombed pretty hard. I bet it could make a mighty come back when people start adjusting sideboards away from it.

I've personally always liked the idea of Manabarbs but could never find a good use for it. From my experience, against anything other than control, it's really only worth about 5-7points of damage when it's all said and done. You'd be far better off with something like Shrine of Burning Rage in my opinion (if you are playing sligh and trying to put the game away).

I haven’t played in anything but FNM/Play-Testing with it, but it’s been having fantastic Game 1s. The SB games are all about pacing and trying to figure out what your opponent has Boarded in. Timely Reinforcements is such a beast against RDW and K-Red that if you see two of them in any one game you are probably going to lose. The worst match-ups for K-Red are Valakut and U/W control, Valakut is more of a 50-50 proposition, and U/W control is harsh as hell after game 1. If people stop filling up half their Boards with Red-Hate then it will see a big comeback and there are PTQ results coming in that show Goblins having some strong finishes. None of those decks were K-Red decks though. I’ve been thinking about dropping a Wurmcoil in just as a non-red fatty… but playing K-Red they’ll board in some Artifact hate too.

What I really want is in Innistrad to get some kind of little RR creature that hates on Blue White. Our own Kor Firewalker if you will. Would be nice.

And ya, Barbs seems like a losing proposition for an Aggro deck. If you were playing Big Red Control then I can see it being a nice little addition, but there isn’t enough Red Control running around to have a Tier 1 BRC deck.

 

[WanderingWind]

You know what? I read manabarbs incorrectly! I thought it was for opponents only...I got hosed, man. Hosed!

 

[Enordash]

This is purely based on what I have read and feel so don't take it to heart and feel free to add or refute information: Innistrad seems to be leaning heavily toward a tribal feel. I suppose I don't have too much information to support this, but like I said, for some reason it just feels that way to me. It is generally accepted that black will have vampires (since Sorin is back). Does that seem weird to anyone else since vamps were so heavy in Zendikar. I suppose it is a full block between, and "vampire" is one of the most prolific black creature types. If they are going tribal, what do you think the other tribes will be? I've already heard speculation for green (glad to get away from elves for a while if it's true). Will blue be Merfolk and bring Kiora in (she's generally believed to be U/G, Duels makes a very strong case for that argument)? I've heard that Innistrad is the plane where Serra originates, so we should have Angels in white. Any thoughts on Red? I'd like to see a deviation from Goblins, but with the Grenade back in M12, I could live with it.

It would have been really neat (but perhaps ridiculous) if they had a classic monster movie feel.

Spoiler

Black - Vampires
Green - Werewolves
White - Mummies maybe?
Blue - Phantoms... Merfolk I guess kinda work too
Red - Monster hunters maybe? Gargoyles? Vlad the Impaler seems red...
Something has to make more sense for Red, I just can't come up with it.

EDIT: There was probably no real need to spoiler that information, lol.

 

[WanderingWind]

This is purely based on what I have read and feel so don't take it to heart and feel free to add or refute information: Innistrad seems to be leaning heavily toward a tribal feel. I suppose I don't have too much information to support this, but like I said, for some reason it just feels that way to me. It is generally accepted that black will have vampires (since Sorin is back). Does that seem weird to anyone else since vamps were so heavy in Zendikar. I suppose it is a full block between, and "vampire" is one of the most prolific black creature types. If they are going tribal, what do you think the other tribes will be? I've already heard speculation for green (glad to get away from elves for a while if it's true). Will blue be Merfolk and bring Kiora in (she's generally believed to be U/G, Duels makes a very strong case for that argument)? I've heard that Innistrad is the plane where Serra originates, so we should have Angels in white. Any thoughts on Red? I'd like to see a deviation from Goblins, but with the Grenade back in M12, I could live with it.

It would have been really neat (but perhaps ridiculous) if they had a classic monster movie feel.

Spoiler

Black - Vampires
Green - Werewolves
White - Mummies maybe?
Blue - Phantoms... Merfolk I guess kinda work too
Red - Monster hunters maybe? Gargoyles? Vlad the Impaler seems red...
Something has to make more sense for Red, I just can't come up with it.

Green better have some goddamn elves. That is all.

 

[marrec]

If they don't print some nice Gobos in Innsitrad I'll be livid. Give Red Grenade again then print a bunch of Giants in the next set.

Actually that sounds like something Wizards would do.

Reprint Squee. DO IT!

 

[Enordash]

If they don't print some nice Gobos in Innsitrad I'll be livid. Give Red Grenade again then print a bunch of Giants in the next set.

Actually that sounds like something Wizards would do.

I feel like giants have always sucked too. I would much rather see goblins than giants anyday. Bring Goblin Piledriver back! Woo!

Also, I'm more sick of elves than goblins. This is probably only because my friend exclusively plays an Elfball deck in Vintage.

EDIT: I was just about to complain about Sengir Vampire still being rare, and it turns out he's back to uncommon. Wizards, you actually make sense sometimes.

 

[Kurtofan]

Maro confirmed UB zombies, RG werewolves and RB vampires. No words on the WG and WU tribes yet.
I think it's probably a subtheme in preparation of the rumoured Return to Ravnica block.

 

[Enordash]

Maro confirmed UB zombies, RG werewolves and RB vampires. No words on the WG and WU tribes yet.
I think it's probably a subtheme in preparation of the rumoured Return to Ravnica block.

So we have a good amount of gold to look forward to? I'm still burnt out on gold after the Alara block. Alara Reborn, I'm looking at you!

 

[Keru_Shiri]

I am really hoping the Return to Ravnica rumors our founded. I hate that I missed out Invasion, Ravnica, Lorywyn, AND came on the tail end of Alara. I always wanted to play in multicolored blocks.

That said, I'm loving everything I've seen so far art and flavor-wise, in Innistrad. Looks like Homelands, or The Dark done right.

 

[rexor0717]

Maro confirmed UB zombies, RG werewolves and RB vampires. No words on the WG and WU tribes yet.
I think it's probably a subtheme in preparation of the rumoured Return to Ravnica block.

I think WU spritits would make sense.

 

[Kurtofan]

So we have a good amount of gold to look forward to? I'm still burnt out on gold after the Alara block. Alara Reborn, I'm looking at you!

Maybe not in Innistrad but if the Rav rumours are true, that's a possibility.

Might as well post maro's tweets:

Innistrad is what I'm calling fantasy horror with a gothic feel. More Universal Monster Movies and less modern horror movies (i.e. Saw)

One of the challenges of Innistrad's design was not putting everything in black. We worked hard to find reasons to put horror in every color

Vampires, zombies & werewolves are just part of the set. There are many different horror tropes to be found. I was just giving a taste

Black zombies are traditional "Dawn of the Dead" zombies. Blue zombies are Frankenstein-like zombies. Undead creatures built by science.

Innistrad has a horror theme with a tribal component; it's not a tribal set. You can choose to draft a tribe but you will not be forced to

 

[Enordash]

I hate that I missed Zendikar. It seemed like a step toward returning to suicide black (ok, the only thing I can think of that fits this is Vampire Lacerator). I would love to see that in full force in Innistrad. "Horror lurks within" is a really good sign!

Let's see a new Dark Ritual. It can be rare and make you lose 3 life for all I care. Also, they should bring back Phyrexian Negator: change his name and make him cost 1B. I only say this because of how insane Phyrexian Obliterator is.

Edit: Thank you, Kurtofan. That clears a lot up. I was actually looking at the Universal monsters when I was speculating earlier. Also, it seems that gold (hopefully) won't be a big thing, so that's sweet.

 

[The Technomancer]

Hm, glad to hear its not heavily tribal or heavily multicolor, hopefully with just splashes of both.

The current vibe I'm really getting is "Castlevania: the set"

 

[rexor0717]

I hate that I missed Zendikar. It seemed like a step toward returning to suicide black (ok, the only thing I can think of that fits this is Vampire Lacerator). I would love to see that in full force in Innistrad. "Horror lurks within" is a really good sign!

Let's see a new Dark Ritual. It can be rare and make you lose 3 life for all I care. Also, they should bring back Phyrexian Negator: change his name and make him cost 1B. I only say this because of how insane Phyrexian Obliterator is.

Edit: Thank you, Kurtofan. That clears a lot up. I was actually looking at the Universal monsters when I was speculating earlier. Also, it seems that gold (hopefully) won't be a big thing, so that's sweet.

Death's Shadow was suicide like. It got stronger with the less life you had.

 

[marrec]

So white will be Ghosts then? What was that damn creature type that phased in and out back during Tempest days, they were White and ugly.

Red should be Devils obviously.

 

[Enordash]

So white will be Ghosts then? What was that damn creature type that phased in and out back during Tempest days, they were White and ugly.

Red should be Devils obviously.

The Soltari were ugly white creatures, but they had Shadow, not Phasing, so maybe you are talking about something else. The return of Shadow would be freakin' crazy though.

Side note: The art for the Innistrad card Creepy Doll is floating around out there. I would link it, but I can't get to it at work, and I don't remember where I found it.

 

[The Technomancer]

The Soltari were ugly white creatures, but they had Shadow, not Phasing, so maybe you are talking about something else. The return of Shadow would be freakin' crazy though.

Side note: The art for the Innistrad card Creepy Doll is floating around out there. I would link it, but I can't get to it at work, and I don't remember where I found it.

Nah, pretty sure Shadow isn't coming back. It made a nostalgia appearance in Time Spiral but they regard it as a poor mechanic because it removes combat interaction (or more accuratly just splits your combat field in two)

 

[marrec]

Shadow! That's what it was called. Ya I don't think they'd be bringing Shadow or the Soltari back, but a Ghost tribal in Innistrad would remind me of the Soltari.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

The multicolor blocks always look like so much fun to play, but usually seem to draw a lot of ire from people on the boards, and such. Especially Alara. Honest question, were they really that bad? I wasn't playing heavily when these blocks were in their heyday.

 

[Enordash]

Nah, pretty sure Shadow isn't coming back. It made a nostalgia appearance in Time Spiral but they regard it as a poor mechanic because it removes combat interaction (or more accuratly just splits your combat field in two)

Yea, I personally don't want Shadow to come back. I agree that it is a poor mechanic. What old mechanic would people like to see again? I would vote for Vanishing first, then perhaps Echo.

 

[The Technomancer]

The multicolor blocks always look like so much fun to play, but usually seem to draw a lot of ire from people on the boards, and such. Especially Alara. Honest question, were they really that bad? I wasn't playing heavily when these blocks were in their heyday.

Ravnica is my personal favorite set of all time, FWIW. Alara...eh...its hard for me to remember Alara. It felt underwhelming, although a lot of people I know loved playing with it.

 

[marrec]

Yea, I personally don't want Shadow to come back. I agree that it is a poor mechanic. What old mechanic would people like to see again? I would vote for Vanishing first, then perhaps Echo.

That was like Fading right?

I want Fading to come back so I can play Blastoderm again. Then reprint Fleetfoot Panther while you're at it.