Why not draft?
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Magic: The Gathering |OT|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
- Status
Why not draft?
Oh god, is it morning?
I had an invasion block drafting binge on MTGO. I woke up 20 tix lighter and with a vindicate.
I'm pretty sure I drafted five times in one day. My head hurts >.>
Release promos have been fairly solid recently though; Restoration Angel is a good ~$12 for the foil promo.
I had an invasion block drafting binge on MTGO. I woke up 20 tix lighter and with a vindicate.
I'm pretty sure I drafted five times in one day. My head hurts >.>
Sadly the days of awesome Mythics for promos are over.
Release promos have been fairly solid recently though; Restoration Angel is a good ~$12 for the foil promo.
echoshifting
Banned
Well, I like the rule as a measure to protect people who just ended up with 5-6 copies of something via luck of the draw, but you'd have to go out of your way to end up with that mix in a draft, which just seems like it would lead to broken 40-card decks running say :cough: 6 copies of Thatcher Revolts or something like that!
You have no one but yourself to hold accountable for that scenario, in which case it's not a protective rule at all.I dunno, I've known about the rule for ten or fifteen minutes, I need more time to process. ;p
edit: on the other hand, if some scrub drafting group just handed you 6 TRs I say run with it
Well, I like the rule as a measure to protect people who just ended up with 5-6 copies of something via luck of the draw, but you'd have to go out of your way to end up with that mix in a draft, which just seems like it would lead to broken 40-card decks running say :cough: 6 copies of Thatcher Revolts or something like that!
I dunno, I've known about the rule for ten or fifteen minutes, I need more time to process. ;p
edit: on the other hand, if some scrub drafting group just handed you 6 TRs I say run with it
Haha, I can see your logic. I was just curious to your reasoning
Well, I like the rule as a measure to protect people who just ended up with 5-6 copies of something via luck of the draw, but you'd have to go out of your way to end up with that mix in a draft, which just seems like it would lead to broken 40-card decks running say :cough: 6 copies of Thatcher Revolts or something like that!
I dunno, I've known about the rule for ten or fifteen minutes, I need more time to process. ;p
edit: on the other hand, if some scrub drafting group just handed you 6 TRs I say run with it
Your edit is why the rule exists.
If a playgroup allows a degenerate deck to exist (IE, one with multiple copies of goldknight commander, kruin striker, and thatcher revolt,) it's their fault for not realizing that, say, kruin strikers were tabling.
It wouldn't make much sense for a player who's already picked up four mist ravens to have to pass their fifth because their playgroup is too bad to realize they're letting someone stack their deck.
I do understand your initial logic though, and believe me, the 5+ thatcher revolt deck with multiple goldknight commanders is among the most frustrating things to lose to ever -- it's entirely luck-based, and, honestly, a pretty terrible deck if there's anyone else at the table picking up kruin strikers (which they should be.) I believe the win % of red/white is around 40% at a high level of play; it's impossible to draft it consistently. The issue is, when the deck is enabled and drafted perfectly (which also has a damn high amount of luck involved), it can just blow people out with a good draw.
echoshifting
Banned
Yeah, I'm coming around on drafting. Asking someone to let the best card for their deck go by might actually be worse than just having a dead common in limited.
fifasnipe2224
Member
So for my limited seal pre release this Saturday... Blue is probibly not an option (unless I land Jace) same with red (unless I land Thndermaw Hellkite) So I am left with Green White and Black.
Between those three (G,W,B), what are you guys liking for M13 and why?
Between those three (G,W,B), what are you guys liking for M13 and why?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
White/Black is going to be very potent at pre-release I think. A lot of very efficient creatures.
Gf is out of town and most of my friends are split between 3 or so different stores at this point, so I probably won't be going to prerelease this weekend 
. Didn't to M12 either, now that I think about it. Ive gone to all of the prereleases since Eldrazi, but none of the core set ones. Lol
I love the flavor and top down design of the promo Gorgon, but yep. Not so great really, and not a fun promo. Great art though.
. Didn't to M12 either, now that I think about it. Ive gone to all of the prereleases since Eldrazi, but none of the core set ones. LolI love the flavor and top down design of the promo Gorgon, but yep. Not so great really, and not a fun promo. Great art though.
echoshifting
Banned
I'm still not sure what the hell that petrification counter is all about. Flavor, I guess? Clarity?
Gorgon, turn to stone. That card is pretty much 100% flavor.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Woah, Red had burn, which kills critters! Red is always an option. (well, depending on what you pull of course) Otherwise, yeah, Black/White will probably be the killer colors.
If the Gorgon dies, the creature will still be locked down, thanks to the counter and last-known information. Similar to Rimescale Dragon.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Right, the counter is pretty much useless, but it sounds cool. I would have preferred it if they had added "as long as it has a petrification counter on it" to the end, but they might have been running up against typography issues.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Huh, guess I was wrong. Now I wonder if I'm also wrong about Rimescale Dragon...
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The Dragon specifically says that the effect only happens to "creatures with Ice counters on them"
Wrong on the dragon. The gorgon puts a stipulation on the counter as it is placed on the creature, but the dragon's ice counters are only affected by the dragon's static ability while it's in play.
If another card put a petrification counter on a creature the Gorgon wouldn't care, but if say a Rimefeather Owl placed an ice counter on a creature the dragon would. There's a pretty distinct difference between them.
I think you are, if Rimescale dies there no longer any condition saying "Creatures with ice counters do not untap during their owners' untap steps". This is where that layers article someone linked earlier would come in handy.
Keru_Shiri
Member
Thanks for the info guys. That would have been at least one game of Commander I could have won if we read Rimescale differently, haha.
echoshifting
Banned
I guess it really is strictly bookkeeping, then. That's what I thought. It just feels like one of those cards where they pushed way too hard for flavor and ended up with a janky card as a result. Jar of Eyeballs is another good recent example of this. Great flavor ain't worth awkward rulings and walls of text.
Eh, I don't think it's that awkward of a card. Of course, I'm massively in favor of top down design so I might be a bit biased in this regard.
I don't even think, besides Hex Parasite, there are any ways to remove the counter without bouncing the targeted creature anyway. So I can't think of many instances where a player might remove the counter, and then not know whether or not the creature maintains those properties. Because if the creature is bounced, then it loses the counters and the properties given it by the Gorgon. So the instance in which only the counter is removed but the creature maintains the properties are extreeeeemely slim right now (could change in RTR though, who knows really). Most people will likely assume that the counter creates those properties, never touch the counter because they can't in 99% of the time, and continue on in the game in harmless ignorance with an unusable creature. Or they bounce the creature.
I don't even think, besides Hex Parasite, there are any ways to remove the counter without bouncing the targeted creature anyway. So I can't think of many instances where a player might remove the counter, and then not know whether or not the creature maintains those properties. Because if the creature is bounced, then it loses the counters and the properties given it by the Gorgon. So the instance in which only the counter is removed but the creature maintains the properties are extreeeeemely slim right now (could change in RTR though, who knows really). Most people will likely assume that the counter creates those properties, never touch the counter because they can't in 99% of the time, and continue on in the game in harmless ignorance with an unusable creature. Or they bounce the creature.
echoshifting
Banned
I must confess I am still holding out hope for some awesome petrification counter shenanigans in RtR. That would be kinda awesome.
I guess it bothers me in part because of my own preference for top-down design and great flavor. From a flavor perspective, the disconnect between the counter and the card's ability makes no sense at all.
I guess it bothers me in part because of my own preference for top-down design and great flavor. From a flavor perspective, the disconnect between the counter and the card's ability makes no sense at all.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Doubling Season. Believe.
How'd you like your creatures getting Double Defender, huh?
Almost as much as I love Double-Double Strike when pairing Silverblade Paladin to Mirran Crusader.
If only.
echoshifting
Banned
I just realized I said it would be kinda awesome to get awesome shenanigans. Gonna leave that there to punish my adverbial ass.
echoshifting
Banned
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Super Trample would be like Tornado Elemental probably.
echoshifting
Banned
Yes and yes
Imagine my disgust when I found out Bloodthirst stacked.
The gf's vampire deck runs a few of these, and on several occasions they've entered the battlefield with bloodthirst 6 because there was already one on the field. Yeah.
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
A friend of mine who has flat out quit the game said he would come back if they reprinted that card. ^_^
OneEightZero
aka ThreeOneFour
So I've decided to take the plunge into Magic Online. I saw the tutorial posted a few months back, but I can't seem to locate it.
Any help/pointers in getting started? ^_^
Any help/pointers in getting started? ^_^
Hell, I was just writing a beginner's guide to MTGO. I'll post some of the choicer bits here:
1: Do not buy packs from the store.
This is a fairly obvious one. Packs are 3.99 in the MTGO store, and you can buy packs of any recent set for 3.5 tix or less from any bot, as they are the prizes for all constructed events; I recommend the cardboosterbot chain. You should only ever buy tix from the store.
2: Estimate payouts before you enter in a tournament.
This is fairly obvious. If the average payout is less than the entry fee, there's no need to enter; there's plenty of events like this, such as everything that pays out in M12 - the packs are worth approximately 2.33tix.
3:Do not draft expecting to break even.
I really hate to say this to new MTGO players, because online drafting is one of the most convenient and fun things you can do with an otherwise boring afternoon.
The issue is, it's an extremely expensive habit.
When speaking to friends and other Magic players at my college about MTGO, I always hear the same pile of bullshit: "Oh yeah, I draft a few times a week, I'm breaking even pretty much."
To avoid being rude, I'd never ask them to divulge their draft strategies, formats of choice, or even their limited rating, because I knew that was complete bullshit right from the start. The few times I've watched these people draft, they would make the same rookie mistakes: joining 4-3-2-2 queues, forcing poor color combinations, rare drafting, etc etc. They would simply value the cards they chose higher than they were worth, and the artificial price they assigned to the cards would convince them that they were breaking even, and, therefore, doing quite fell for themselves.
Let me beat this into your head:
IT IS INCREDIBLY UNLIKELY FOR ANYONE TO BREAK EVEN DRAFTING.
Let's assume you're a newer player with quite a bit of skill; you join an 8-4 Avacyn Restored queue, hoping to do well for yourself. By a miracle of nature, you manage to be on-par with the experienced drafters who run these queues all day, many of whom are longtime players with PTQ wins. You manage to have fifty percent win rate against these people. (Reality dictates a player unfamiliar with the format will be somewhere in the 30-40 area, but let's be generous.)
You will -STILL- lose an average of 4 tix for every draft you enter, with extremely high variance.
Let's look at the rares and mythics in avacyn restored:
The rest of the rares in the set are jank, being bought up by most bots at under a penny a piece, and the commons and uncommons add negligible value at -best-.
This means an average pack of avacyn restored, opened on MTGO, is worth 1.11.
An 8-player draft has an entry fee of 2 tix and three packs of AVR, which cost approximately 3.5 tix. They pay out a total of 12 packs. This means there's a pay-in, for all players, of approximately 100 tix: (3.5 * 8 * 3) + 16.
The prizes (12 packs) are worth approximately 42 tix.
Therefore, the cost to all players entering in a draft is around 58 tix, which boils down to 7.25 tix per entrant for their three opened packs.... Or 2.41 tix per opened pack, 1.3 above the estimated value.
tl;dr on this one: drafting is a massive money hole that even good players will lose money on. Do it when you need a distraction, but don't draft compulsively.
4: Constructed is amazing.
Ask yourself: are you good at Magic? Good enough to actually enter in a tournament that likely contains pro tour quality players?
No?
Neither was I when I started, and I -still- broke even on constructed events beating on the people of my skill level.
Daily events (4 round constructed events, located in scheduled events) are effectively free tix - that's why they only run a certain number of them daily. With only a six ticket entry fee, this is the prize structure:
4-0: 11 packs of the newest set, 3 QPs
3-1: 6 packs of the newest set, 1 QP
2-2 or less: Nothing.
Let's follow rule 2 and run estimated values on this event the easiest way possible, assuming a 32-person tournament:
At the end of round 1, there will be 16 people 1-0 and 16 0-1.
In round 2, the 1-0s will play each other, resulting in 8 2-0s and 8 1-1s. Also, the 0-1s will play each other, resulting in 8 1-1s and 8 0-2s; the standings going into round 3 look like this:
8 2-0
16 1-1
8 0-2 (who will almost certainly drop; let's ignore these people.)
At the end of round 3:
4 3-0
12 2-1
8 1-2 (drop)
And at the end of round 4:
2 4-0
8 3-1
This means that ten of the 32 entrants will win prize, which is a fairly hefty percentage. This also means that in a 32 person event, with 192 tickets taken in by WOTC in entry fees, a total of SIXTY PACKS WILL BE GIVEN OUT. With all major formats paying out in AVR, a 3.5 ticket pack, this means 210 tickets in prize (and 14 QPs) will be given out; higher than the total collected entry fees, and allowing for a below-average player to be able to compete at a high level of play, become skilled at Magic, and profit while doing it.
If you're going to be playing a lot (upwards of one event a day), I recommend Standard, as there's less experienced players in the format, although the barrier to entry is incredibly high (every competitive deck is upwards of 200tix.)
If you're going to be playing seldomly, say, one event a week or less, I STRONGLY recommend modern. You can build competitive, easy to pilot decks for 100tix or less, and make that back in a month or two of 4-round events.
If you need more help or suggestions, let me know
I'm on MODO way more than I should be, but considering that my internship this summer has me in a boring town in Maine 24-7, I have no idea what else I'm supposed to do >.>;; My username is mookiedude2002.give me any tips about this deck that I should try?
1 Champion of the Parish (want 3 more)
4 Elite Inquisitor
3 Riot Ringleader
4 Thatcher Revolt
1 Sharpened Pitchfork
2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
1 Bonds of Faith (somehow only have 1 of these, wanna get more)
4 Kessig Malcontents
3 Unruly Mob
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Accorder Paladin
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
10 Mountains
11 Plains
Need to still work on my sideboard (pacifism, Oblivion Rings, Grim Lavamancer, and a few others)
any tips guys
1 Champion of the Parish (want 3 more)
4 Elite Inquisitor
3 Riot Ringleader
4 Thatcher Revolt
1 Sharpened Pitchfork
2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
1 Bonds of Faith (somehow only have 1 of these, wanna get more)
4 Kessig Malcontents
3 Unruly Mob
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Elite Vanguard
4 Accorder Paladin
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
10 Mountains
11 Plains
Need to still work on my sideboard (pacifism, Oblivion Rings, Grim Lavamancer, and a few others)
any tips guys
echoshifting
Banned
-Unruly Mob is much weaker in standard constructed than it might seem, scrap it. Anything that completely relies on counters sucks in the current play environment.
-Deck needs more control/removal
-Does not seem like enough land, especially without duals, add at least a couple more
-Deck needs more control/removal
-Does not seem like enough land, especially without duals, add at least a couple more
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Start by adding 3-4 more plains. You also have too many mountains for so little red. You don't have any creature removal outside of Bonds
i'll be getting some more oblivion rings and pacifism and some bonds of faith, any other good creature removals
I'll prolly replace those unruly mobs with Champions of the Parish once I get them, but the'yre one of the many cards that has great function with Thatcher Revolt.
Im also keeping the mana the way it is right, I know probability speaking it would make sense to have more plains then mountains, but deck wise, this is the only combo of cards that has left me with not getting screwed/flooded.
I'll prolly replace those unruly mobs with Champions of the Parish once I get them, but the'yre one of the many cards that has great function with Thatcher Revolt.
Im also keeping the mana the way it is right, I know probability speaking it would make sense to have more plains then mountains, but deck wise, this is the only combo of cards that has left me with not getting screwed/flooded.
Gonna sort it by converted mana cost so you can see what your curve looks like right now:
4 Elite Vanguard
2 Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 Champion of the Parish
2 Silver-Inlaid Dagger
4 Elite Inquisitor
3 Unruly Mob
1 Sharpened Pitchfork
1 Bonds of Faith
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Accorder Paladin
4 Thatcher Revolt
4 Kessig Malcontents
The first thing that stands out to me is that you have very few creatures capable of enabling Stormblood Berserker; ideally, you want at least 4 more 1-drop creatures to make the most of that card.
As far as Unruly Mob; I realize there's synergy with mob at Thatcher Revolt, but it's simply too slow and unreliable to be able to depend on. I'd much prefer something like Kruin Striker to Unruly Mob; even if it's not "enabled", it's a Goblin Piker.... And after you pop a thatcher revolt, it's a 5/1 trampler.
Another note: you have too few lands. I realize your curve ends at 3, but you still will occasionally need 4 mana if you want to, say, play malcontents and tap with lawkeeper in the same turn. Consider adding at least one more land.
On the subject of your mana, you probably want to cut Elite Inquisitor as well; without mana fixing, it's just too unreliable at WW.
Aside from that, great deck. Props on the malcontents, I love that card!
I fell in love with malcontents in one of the Avacyn drafts I did with my friends
Also, im gonna keep unruly mob until I get my champions, I love the flavor of the card, and want use it succesfully once :3
Anyone know the cheapest champions I can get, or should I try trading my shit rares for it
Also, im gonna keep unruly mob until I get my champions, I love the flavor of the card, and want use it succesfully once :3
Anyone know the cheapest champions I can get, or should I try trading my shit rares for it
- Status