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[JDB]

http://www.newsweek.com/muslim-white-evangelical-gay-marriage-907627

"Opposition to same-sex marriage has decreased across a broad swath of religious groups in the United States, with white evangelical Christians one of the few movements for which a majority remains in opposition. Three years on from the Supreme Court ruling that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry, the findings from the Public Religion Research Institute’s 2017 American Values Atlas, published Tuesday, showed growing support for LGBT rights, including a majority of U.S. Muslims backing same-sex marriage for the first time."

https://www.prri.org/research/emerg...findings-from-the-2017-american-values-atlas/

"Most religious groups in the U.S. now support same-sex marriage, including overwhelming majorities of Unitarians (97%), Buddhists (80%), the religiously unaffiliated (80%), Jewish Americans (77%), and Hindus (75%). Roughly two-thirds of white mainline Protestants (67%), white Catholics (66%), Orthodox Christians (66%), and Hispanic Catholics (65%) also favor same-sex marriage. A slim majority of Muslims (51%) favor same-sex marriage, but only 34% are opposed; 15% offer no opinion on this issue. "

"Opposition to same-sex marriage is now confined to a few of the most conservative Christian religious traditions. Only about one-third (34%) of white evangelical Protestants support same-sex marriage today, while nearly six in ten (58%) are opposed, including 30% who are strongly opposed. And just 40% of Mormons support same-sex marriage, compared to 53% who are opposed. Jehovah’s Witnesses, a racially mixed religious group, are the exception. Just 13% support the policy, compared to 63% who oppose it. However, nearly one-quarter (24%) of Jehovah’s Witnesses express no opinion on this issue."

 

[Ke0]

Evangelical Christians have always been America's weakest link so this isn't surprising.

 

[Cato]

This is ban-worthy bait.

 

[SatansReverence]

This is ban-worthy bait.

Yeah nah it really isn't.

I'd wager that a vast majority of users would be in support of gay marriage.

 

[E-Cat]

This is ban-worthy bait.

Truth = ban-worthy bait?

 

[Cato]

deleted

 

[RokkanStoned]

Checked the methodology.

What the hell is this?

The selection of respondents within households was accomplished by randomly requesting to speak with the youngest adult male or female currently living in the household.

Usually you ask for the adult who last had birthday or something similar. Did they randomly request? If so, who did they request otherwise? None? Just asking the person taking the phone? I don't really see what they're thinking here.

Otherwise, there might be some issues due to the weighting, as elaborate weighting tends to run the danger schewing results to be non-representative. How were the interviews done? Standardized questions? How were the wording?

Interesting result if the validity checks out. I wonder if there's any socio economic reasons for it, or evangelicals and mormons as an institution are more resistant against change due to being an established force in the US.

 

[Cato]

Checked the methodology.

What the hell is this?



Usually you ask for the adult who last had birthday or something similar. Did they randomly request? If so, who did they request otherwise? None? Just asking the person taking the phone? I don't really see what they're thinking here.

Otherwise, there might be some issues due to the weighting, as elaborate weighting tends to run the danger schewing results to be non-representative. How were the interviews done? Standardized questions? How were the wording?

Interesting result if the validity checks out. I wonder if there's any socio economic reasons for it, or evangelicals and mormons as an institution are more resistant against change due to being an established force in the US.

The younger the person the more malleable they are and less likely to have strong opinions of their own. The easier to get the result you want.
I.e. "highly speculative" in the words me and friends would use for the results.

Like, if you are hired to do market research for how well the next 80k$+ Tesla will sell. Will you "randomly" interview random hobos near 9th and market in SanFran or will you select a random subset of "golfers at Augusta Golf Course". ?

 

[SatansReverence]

Muslims are wore welcoming to homos than the average westerner because Jehova Whitnesses are worse?

If you measure your moral compass against JV you are doing it wrong.
This is just a stupid comparasion trying to downplay the very serious problem we have in the muslim
subculture towards homosexuals.
(Of course we have this issue in JV too, but they are just so far gone that no one takes them seriously.
"JV are a good moral compass" - said no one sane, ever)


The way I read this is as silly as saying Richard Spencer is a good guy because Hitler was worse.
Both wrong and both despicable.

What in the actualness of fuckery are you rambling about?

Checked the methodology.

What the hell is this?



Usually you ask for the adult who last had birthday or something similar. Did they randomly request? If so, who did they request otherwise? None? Just asking the person taking the phone? I don't really see what they're thinking here.

Otherwise, there might be some issues due to the weighting, as elaborate weighting tends to run the danger schewing results to be non-representative. How were the interviews done? Standardized questions? How were the wording?

Interesting result if the validity checks out. I wonder if there's any socio economic reasons for it, or evangelicals and mormons as an institution are more resistant against change due to being an established force in the US.

That seems like specifically biased sampling to ensure a certain outcome really. So in this thread we learn that opinion statistics are easily manipulated to push an agenda.

 

[Cato]

What in the actualness of fuckery are you rambling about?

I spoke clumsily. For that I apologize.

Still, this reads like some excuseatory piece "foo is not bad, because bar is worse".


I read it the same as if someone would write a post that "Richard Spencers is not bad", because Hitler was worse.
You can never excuse bad behavior by saying "someone else was worse".
Bigoted and bad behavior is bad, always. And you do not need some awfullness-relative theories to make bad things seem less bad.

If it is bad and/or homophobic then it is. Sure the JV folks are even worse, that does not mean that anyone less fucked up than JV are automatically
good.


You can never excuse bad behavior by saying "someone else is worse".

 

[Texas Pride]

What in the actualness of fuckery are you rambling about?



That seems like specifically biased sampling to ensure a certain outcome really. So in this thread we learn that opinion statistics are easily manipulated to push an agenda.

The young are easily manipulated to achieve the desired result. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

 

[-Minsc-]

I'm commenting specifically on the thread title.

"Majority of U.S. Muslims Now Support Gay Marriage, While White Evangelical Christians Remain Opposed"

In my mind this statement reads in a way to tear down white evangelical Christians and force them to submit to acknowledging gay marriage. As long as they don't go overboard and kill people over this then there's no issue in them voicing opposition. Whether their view is in the majority or minority is a none issue. This is the same for all groups and views. It's easy for myself and everyone else to lose sight of this.

 

[strange headache]

To be quite frank, the poll results do a poor job of reflecting reality because they fail to correlate between same sex marriage and religious belief. As usual PEW gives a much better representation of the situation (here & here). First of all let's have a look at religious groups who are most opposed to same sex marriage. As we can see, the results reflect those of the study mentioned above:

But if we take into account the influence of religious beliefs on individual views and how strongly somebody believes in his religion (i.e. how resolute said person is in his faith), we can easily see that religion has a major impact on views about gay marriage:

This means that the more influence Muslim faith has on a person, the more likely said person is opposed to same sex marriage. These results are underlined by the fact that second generation immigrants, who grew up in a more secular environment and are more used to western values, are much less opposed to same sex marriage:

If we take into account the importance of belief, it is not surprising that Jehovah's Witnesses are the most opposed to same sex marriage, since their cult like theocratic organization doesn't really allow for moderate positions to flourish.

What these results tell us, is not that Muslim faith is becoming more accepting of same sex marriage, but that Muslims who are more open to same sex marriage are becoming more agnostic and/or take their religion much less serious. That's a big difference and something that is conveniently swept under the rug by the results presented by the OP.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

This is ban-worthy bait.

Indeed.

It's not really a news story that Evangelical Christians oppose gay marriage when the Bible states that homosexuality is sin, specifically categorized under sexual morality.

This is orthodoxy. Any outrage to come of this is fake, or a gross display of ignorance concerning what scripture actually says.

The most that the opposition to this population could hope for from a moral standpoint (for that is all that remains, as SCOTUS had definitively addressed the legal one), is holding Christians accountable for their sexual immorality--premarital sex, adultery, frivolous divorce, usage or pornography--the things that seem to be socially acceptable, yet the Bible teaches against it; this would be most effective in garnering personal conviction among them.

In other words, demonstrate how they have planks in their eyes while worrying about the splinter in their brother's eye.

 

[Dunki]

I will be honest here. Most of US Muslims have already been westernized and they barely have anything to do anymore with European or other Muslims around the world. They are basically Role Model Muslims which in the end is great. But it should not mean we should stop criticizing the actual Islam or Muslims for their believes. If you look at these kind of statistics here

http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/

One of these reasons is also because Mosques in the US are not being radicalized and politicized by foreign countries like Turkey or Saudi Arabia. In the End the Islam needs to strive to become more like US Muslims except people like Linda Sarasour of course.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Indeed.

It's not really a news story that Evangelical Christians oppose gay marriage when the Bible states that homosexuality is sin, specifically categorized under sexual morality.

This is orthodoxy. Any outrage to come of this is fake, or a gross display of ignorance concerning what scripture actually says.

The most that the opposition to this population could hope for from a moral standpoint (for that is all that remains, as SCOTUS had definitively addressed the legal one), is holding Christians accountable for their sexual immorality--premarital sex, adultery, frivolous divorce, usage or pornography--the things that seem to be socially acceptable, yet the Bible teaches against it; this would be most effective in garnering personal conviction among them.

In other words, demonstrate how they have planks in their eyes while worrying about the splinter in their brother's eye.

Even beyond all that, there's the simple hypocrisy of believing in a government specifically founded to allow personal freedom, and then to suggest that we ignore that fact for this situation or that situation between two consenting adults.

If you're a conservative and/or republican who doesn't support homosexuality being fully accepted by The United States on religious grounds, then shouldn't we also make an exception to our freedom of speech that outlaws taking the Lord's name in vain? I don't think most conservative republicans would agree with the latter, so why would they agree with the former?

This is ban-worthy bait.

I very much disagree. Conservatives are every bit as worthy of criticism as Liberals.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Even beyond all that, there's the simple hypocrisy of believing in a government specifically founded to allow personal freedom, and then to suggest that we ignore that fact for this situation or that situation between two consenting adults.

If you're a conservative and/or republican who doesn't support homosexuality being fully accepted by The United States on religious grounds, then shouldn't we also make an exception to our freedom of speech that outlaws taking the Lord's name in vain? I don't think most conservative republicans would agree with the latter, so why would they agree with the former?



I very much disagree. Conservatives are every bit as worthy of criticism as Liberals.

I have much to say about his alleged freedom. That was a myth. Ask Indigenous people, women, people of African descent....

I'll say this: they low-key desire a totalitarian theocracy. But that's not sexy to admit out loud.


By ban bait, it's really not possible for someone to be like "Yeah, I'm one of those people who would have marked 'I oppose gay rights' in that poll!" without being banned.

 

[MrRogers]

Muslims in USA are the most "progressive" minded individuals of their religion in the entire world. In Europe its a completely different situation where the majority of muslims in countries like the UK, Sweden and Germany believe homosexuality should be outlawed. Being Gay in those countries in twenty years hence will be an occupational hazard if it isn't already.

 

[the.acl]

Does it matter if you support or oppose?

Everyone wants to know your opinion on something so that they can judge you for it.

Opinions are only that.

 

[Bolivar687]

Does it matter if you support or oppose?

Everyone wants to know your opinion on something so that they can judge you for it.

Opinions are only that.

Agreed, and I find it highly dubious that we continue to relitigate an issue that's been resolved for years at this point. Why? It suggests that its purpose is no longer tethered to actually achieving equality.

It's also problematic that this piece only serves to denigrate Americans of targeted racial and religious groups while elevating others. I'm personally exhausted by the media's best efforts to continually divide us a part from each other, especially on issues which no longer have future contest. Are we only capable of including Muslim Americans by denigrating Christians?

Along those lines of political expediency and engineered racial-religous division, I think its deceptive the way these questions on marriage and abortion are always framed. With cohabitation and sodomy laws being struck down by the Supreme Court, the issue was never really about allowing someone to do something on their own. If these issues are really as universal as these polls construe them to be, why did we not allow this to be openly debated in the public square and through the representative democratic process? These family issues are consistently imposed on the states by a one-vote Supreme Court majority. It's not ideal to change culture through the courts and bar associations, and then justify them after the fact through misleading polls with suspect methodologies.

 

[TrainedRage]

I'm pretty sure margin of error is a thing. 51% is not the majority.

 

[bucyou]

I'd wager a polling of muslims worldwide would fetch a much different result

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm commenting specifically on the thread title.

"Majority of U.S. Muslims Now Support Gay Marriage, While White Evangelical Christians Remain Opposed"

In my mind this statement reads in a way to tear down white evangelical Christians and force them to submit to acknowledging gay marriage. As long as they don't go overboard and kill people over this then there's no issue in them voicing opposition. Whether their view is in the majority or minority is a none issue. This is the same for all groups and views. It's easy for myself and everyone else to lose sight of this.

That title doesn't tear anybody down. It's just stating a data point that this poll found. That title has no judgement.

 

[Bolivar687]

That title doesn't tear anybody down. It's just stating a data point that this poll found. That title has no judgement.

Of course it does.

 

[mckmas8808]

Of course it does.

How does it tear them down? If someone is opposed to marriage equality, then why would they have an issue with that title?

 

[Jon Neu]

Why is christianism divided in subgroups but islam isn't? Rhetorical question, obviously.

Another thing to take into account is how muslims react to gays. I don't know much christians that would happily throw gays from a building for their sin of being gay, but there's literally millions of muslims that find that reasonable.

 

[the.acl]

How does it tear them down? If someone is opposed to marriage equality, then why would they have an issue with that title?

"Opposed to marriage equality" is a jab in and of itself.

So me for example, I'm a Conservative/Traditionalist and a Christian. I believe marriage is sacred, and anything other than a man and a woman is unnatural. But that's my opinion, and part of my religious beliefs.

I don't impose my beliefs on anyone. I understand that not everyone is Christian. But that's my beliefs.

Why do liberals want to know what other people's beliefs are? If they're the tolerant ones, why are they so quick to hate on people that don't agree with them, and label them as "Intolerant"?

It's almost as if they wanna know if you agree with them, as if you have to.

 

[mckmas8808]

"Opposed to marriage equality" is jab in and of itself.

So me for example, I'm a Conservative/Traditionalist and a Christian. I believe marriage is sacred, and anything other than a man and a woman is unnatural. But that's my opinion, and part of my religious beliefs.

I don't impose my beliefs on anyone. I understand that not everyone is Christian. But that's my beliefs.

Why do liberals want to know what other people's beliefs are? If they're the tolerant ones, why are they so quick to hate on people that don't agree with them, and label them as "Intolerant"?

It's almost as if they wanna know if you agree with them, as if you have to.

You have to acknowledge that a lot of people that share your beliefs were/are trying to fight through governmental legislation and different White Houses to keep gay people marrying the person of their same gender right? It sounds like you keep your beliefs to yourself, but there are millions that literally voted to make sure gay marriage is illegal. This happened in 1996.

 

[Dunki]

I'd wager a polling of muslims worldwide would fetch a much different result

i posted such a thing and it more like 80 percent who are strictly against homosexuality

 

[the.acl]

You have to acknowledge that a lot of people that share your beliefs were/are trying to fight through governmental legislation and different White Houses to keep gay people marrying the person of their same gender right? It sounds like you keep your beliefs to yourself, but there are millions that literally voted to make sure gay marriage is illegal. This happened in 1996.

Not that I keep my beliefs to myself, I often share my beliefs in conversation with others.

Where I do draw the line is if you're gonna call yourself a Christian, there's certain statutes and standards that we have to follow. It's not a buffet where you get to pick and choose what you want and what you don't.

Why is christianism divided in subgroups but islam isn't? Rhetorical question, obviously.

Another thing to take into account is how muslims react to gays. I don't know much christians that would happily throw gays from a building for their sin of being gay, but there's literally millions of muslims that find that reasonable.

And yeah dude, here in America we mostly deal with being butthurt if someone doesn't agree with you. But in the Middle East it's life and death.

 

[the.acl]

Reading some statistics, there's approximately 3.3 million Muslims living in America. There's approximately 1.8 billion Muslims world wide. Compared to 2.2 billion Christians worldwide.

Islam is growing more rapidly than any other religion in the world, according to a new report by the Pew Research Center that says the religion will nearly equal Christianity by 2050 before eclipsing it around 2070, if current trends continue.

Kinda alarming because most Muslims aren't as tolerant as "Westernized" U.S. Muslims. So who knows what this means.

(No disrespect to any of my Muslim brothers on here, I love Halal food.)

 

[Codes 208]

Kinda alarming because most Muslims aren't as tolerant as "Westernized" U.S. Muslims. So who knows what this means.

(No disrespect to any of my Muslim brothers on here, I love Halal food.)

This honestly reads like "Im not racist, one of my friends is black!"

 

[krazen]

Of course.

Evangelical Christians are basically bigotry incarnate. Me and my sister were having a chuckle at how a large amount on my father's side of the family went nuts and went that way; recently they were trying to pray the devil off of her so she could find a good man even though she's happy and single.

The irony is that that for a group that's so afraid of Satan they pretty much do his work for him (if he actually existed that is). They are a fucking cancer.

 

[the.acl]

This honestly reads like "Im not racist, one of my friends is black!"

Did I say anything racist? lol

 

[King of Foxes]

This could also be shown that Americas immigration procedures WORK*, screening, vetting and admitting tolerant peoples vs Germany just throwing open the fucking door and setting Europe up for ruin the 2nd time in less than 100 years.

*edit* work in the sense that muslims cant just walk across a border and act entitled to full perks of citizenship

 

[Dad.]

This is ban-worthy bait.

Helpfulness is bannable?

 

[JDB]

This honestly reads like "Im not racist, one of my friends is black!"

I love kebab!

 

[zumphry]

Does it matter if you support or oppose?

Everyone wants to know your opinion on something so that they can judge you for it.

Opinions are only that.

because people who oppose it aren't just not getting gay married, they tried to make it so that nobody could get gay married. surprise! beliefs matter!

I will be honest here. Most of US Muslims have already been westernized and they barely have anything to do anymore with European or other Muslims around the world. They are basically Role Model Muslims which in the end is great. But it should not mean we should stop criticizing the actual Islam or Muslims for their believes.

Muslims in America are 'actual' Muslims. Hope this helps.

 

[BANGS]

Surveys and polls only matter if they support your narrative... otherwise they're just random meaningless data...

 

[NickFire]

Checked the methodology.

What the hell is this?



Usually you ask for the adult who last had birthday or something similar. Did they randomly request? If so, who did they request otherwise? None? Just asking the person taking the phone? I don't really see what they're thinking here.

Otherwise, there might be some issues due to the weighting, as elaborate weighting tends to run the danger schewing results to be non-representative. How were the interviews done? Standardized questions? How were the wording?

Interesting result if the validity checks out. I wonder if there's any socio economic reasons for it, or evangelicals and mormons as an institution are more resistant against change due to being an established force in the US.

If their methodology was to speak with the youngest adults then they might as well toss the polling results in the trash. The youngest adults views are not going to be a fair representation of the religion's views in the US. In free societies, its almost an expected right of passage for the youngest adult's views to be completely opposite to their parents' views.

 

[rokkerkory]

Speaking as a Christian, why the heck would I judge who another person loves? That's not what Jesus taught and how he lived. This is one area in which I am extremely disappointed with my fellow Christians.

 

[BANGS]

Speaking as a Christian, why the heck would I judge who another person loves? That's not what Jesus taught and how he lived. This is one area in which I am extremely disappointed with my fellow Christians.

Christians come is a wide variety. There are actually gay churches in some areas. It really has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with culture...

 

[NickFire]

Speaking as a Christian, why the heck would I judge who another person loves? That's not what Jesus taught and how he lived. This is one area in which I am extremely disappointed with my fellow Christians.

In my view, sometimes it seems that fellow Christians rely too much on the old testament and leave themselves somewhat blind to the Gospels.

 

[manfestival]

Why does this article say the majority of muslims support something while singling out white evangelicals to bring home an unfair point? This article just strikes me as bait.

 

[luigimario]

i posted such a thing and it more like 80 percent who are strictly against homosexuality

I'm pretty sure you would get similar numbers polling christians around the world, especially in south/central america, africa, eastern europe/russia, india, east asia, etc etc

 

[Dad.]

Why does this article say the majority of muslims support something while singling out white evangelicals to bring home an unfair point? This article just strikes me as bait.

It is helpful to find out what groups are the most anti equality and want discrimination.

 

[camelCase]

Straw man bull crap. I've known religious people all my life mostly Presbyterian but some protestant and evangelicals and they weren't anti gay except for the odd really old one. this writer is pushing an agenda like it's his job

 

[LordPezix]

Could someone educate me if white christian is different than an Evangelical one? I'm assuming so but I just wanted to be sure if it wasn't a puffer word added in? I don't traverse the religious realms of today so I apologize if it is common knowledge.

 

[Liberty4all]

Could someone educate me if white christian is different than an Evangelical one? I'm assuming so but I just wanted to be sure if it wasn't a puffer word added in? I don't traverse the religious realms of today so I apologize if it is common knowledge.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism

 

[Sakura Doritos]

It is helpful to find out what groups are the most anti equality and want discrimination.

Except in Christianity the text it is founded on, The New Testament, says to reach out to sinners and love them as if they were Christ. And to not do that is to not do it to Christ. So what you see in America is a bunch of people who fit the classification of the Sadducees and would not be considered fundamental Christians according to the faith itself.

The juxtaposition with Islam is that the fundamental Islamist could advocate killing a gay person if they would not stop their sin according to sharia law.

Fundamentalist Christians in America tend to be blanket words used by the secular media to really paint a picture of stupid people who refute science and believe the world is 2000 years old, possibly flat, and vote to hide sin from the public all the while waiting to point out their hypocrisy when exposed.

Westernized Muslims in America tend to be held up as whataboutisms when people criticize the Islam societies for numerous reasons by the same media.