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Manual or Automatic? Which are better drivers?
- Thread starter MrAngryFace
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Manual drivers do speed, take turns faster, and drive more liberally -- they probably end up having more accidents to. As a result, they learn the limits of their cars and are therefore better drivers. I would rather drive with a manual driver in a hatchback that's in a rush versus a soccer mom in an SUV that's in a rush.
Foreign Jackass
Member
missAran said:
Uh huh. More accidents = better drivers. You know, murderers end up being very good people too, cause they learn the value of life by killing people. After ten murders or so, you tend to know the pain it causes, and then you learn to be a kind person. It has been proven repeatedly in the past.
Error Macro
Member
missAran said:
Yes, but in a gigantic SUV, you could fly off an overpass, and bounce to safety off of the roofs of other cars.
Tiny hatchback + flying off of overpass =
lachesis
Member
I suck at real-life driving, so I stick with auto. I only drive manual and drive like a maniac in videogames - because it's okay to hit the "wall" or crash in videogames - but more I practice my crazy skills, I shy away from real-life crazyness. Weird, isn't it?
However, I do occasionally enjoy the feeling of accelation with my VR6 Jetta. Leaves majority of cars far behind within seconds.... and I am proud that I haven't got a ticket or even got caught by the cop for past 10+ years, so I guess it's okay to be a sucky, overly defensive driver in some way.
lachesis
However, I do occasionally enjoy the feeling of accelation with my VR6 Jetta.
Leaves majority of cars far behind within seconds.... and I am proud that I haven't got a ticket or even got caught by the cop for past 10+ years, so I guess it's okay to be a sucky, overly defensive driver in some way. lachesis
MrAngryFace said:
Actually, I have a question about this.
I'm an auto-tranny driver and I would like to learn manny-tranny for my next car.
But as far as automatic goes, I know there are certain situations (inclines, towing) where I would use 2nd or 3rd gear instead of D. That's fine.
But I've also been advised that replacing brakes is far less costly than replacing the transmission in an automatic. I've also been told that the transmission in automatics break down easier than manual if you shift yourself. So if this is the case, is there anything wrong with riding the brakes, if it's the better cost-effective option?
....
I also have questions about shifting in general:
1) In a manual if you're driving 60 mph and are on 5th gear, and downshift it to 4th gear at that speed, does it harm your transmission?
2) What if you downshift it to 3rd gear at 60mph? What about 2nd?
3) I've also heard the concept of "matching revs" in manual shifting cars. What does this mean, and what does it accomplish?
4) Do cars with auto-tranmissions follow the same rules as the answers to 1-3?
The downshift question depends on a few factors. First the age of the car newer cars will restrict you from doing harmfull downshifts. It is very damaging to a car to down shift to low gears at high speed. I've seen it done to a rental car, I didnt expect it to shift into first at 100K but it went in like butter. Drop the clutch and bang! Blew the engine in spectacular fashion. Pieces of engine all over the road. Dropping a single gear is normal though.
This is bad logic. For the same reason that NASCAR drivers, who crash often in their sport, are better drivers than old grandfathers who drive slowly on the freeway, manual drivers are better drivers. This mainly applies to the ones who know when to speed (backroads, by themselves), but still get in accidents. When you know your limits and your cars limits, you are the better driver.Foreign Jackass said:
When I drove automatic was pretty lazy and didnt pay as much attention as I do now that i drive stick.
Now, shifting is subconscious for me like someone said, but i feel much more apart of the process of driving instead of just a passanger like when I was driving automatic.
What made me switch is driving with someone who knew how to use manual transmission and I saw how much more control he had over the car and well, that driving could be fun and not just going form "point a to point b".
Aside from all that, I think driving stick is an essential skill that eveyone should know. You never know if and when you will be in a siutation that requires you to drive a manual transmission.
So anyway, id say those who drive stick are better drivers becuase they are probably a bit more aware about what is going on around them than someone who drive automatic.
Now, shifting is subconscious for me like someone said, but i feel much more apart of the process of driving instead of just a passanger like when I was driving automatic.
What made me switch is driving with someone who knew how to use manual transmission and I saw how much more control he had over the car and well, that driving could be fun and not just going form "point a to point b".
Aside from all that, I think driving stick is an essential skill that eveyone should know. You never know if and when you will be in a siutation that requires you to drive a manual transmission.
So anyway, id say those who drive stick are better drivers becuase they are probably a bit more aware about what is going on around them than someone who drive automatic.
Fresh Prince
Banned
MAF what we would do without you!
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
MrAngryFace said:
Manual, this is mandated by Jesus, Mohmaad, and Lucifer. It's the only thing they can agree on.
Tommie Hu$tle
Member
Tsubaki said:
To be honest with you advancements transmission technology have made the differences between manual and automatic negligable.
....
I also have questions about shifting in general:
How many gears do you have. I'm assuming 5 gears either way no shifting down from 5 to 4 will not harm your car. Think of 5th gear as a overdrive gear.Tsubaki said:
3rd is going to give you acceleration. 3rd gear is your money gear.Tsubaki said:
2nd depends on your car and what your max RPMs are. In general you want to be in 3rd when you are hitting 60th. Shifting down to 2nd at 60 you are probably looking as replacing your tranmission. Now then sports cars (RX-8) can handle going up to 60 in 2nd gear. You don't want to shift down to 60.
Pretty much.
Thanks for your answers guys.
Actually I have a standard 4-speed automatic on my Corolla. Nothing special. So basically in terms of that, if I want to downshift, I should go from D to overdrive-off instead of D to 2.
I was just a little worried overall because if you're going 60 mph, and then I turn overdrive off, then engine braking cuts my speed to about 40-50 mph. I'm just not sure if that's harmful for the transmission or if I should brake to about 40-50 mph before downshifting.
Actually I have a standard 4-speed automatic on my Corolla. Nothing special. So basically in terms of that, if I want to downshift, I should go from D to overdrive-off instead of D to 2.
I was just a little worried overall because if you're going 60 mph, and then I turn overdrive off, then engine braking cuts my speed to about 40-50 mph. I'm just not sure if that's harmful for the transmission or if I should brake to about 40-50 mph before downshifting.
For regular commuting, I drop the car into neutral instead of downshifting. But if you want to push, you have to downshift. Nothing like being in the right gear at the right revs at the right time.darscot said:
Anyway, there are idiots that drive both. I think more skilled drivers clearly take to stick though. I got one out of curiosity (and being a gearhead). I worried I would hate it, b/c I do love the convenience of an auto. But once you take control, you don't really want to let it go. It may be more uncomfortable for long trips, or in gridlock, but it's so rewarding when you actually open it up for some fun. I mean, you can't match it with an automatic.
Triptronics are neat, but most of them are just autos or CVTs with manually-assisted gear shifts. Note that most have all sorts of computer adjustments, so it's not a real semi-auto. The Spyder has an awsome semi-auto tranny. There's actually a clutch that engages and disengages. It's just all computer-controlled. The downshifts were perfect, and even good drivers will never replicate its speed and precision on downshifts. But the upshifts have some stupid lag built-in. Very unnerving. So I passed on it. If upshifts were quick, I'd have gone with it.
True sequential trannies are the best. Well, those that have electronic clutches. It's the only way to combine the control of a manual with the convenience and precision of an automatic. I'd take one anyday. PEACE.
Sort of off topic, but -1 Ford focus and Ford in general.
There was a Ford Focus commercial with a Honda Accord and Toyota Camry in a repair shop, and the ad was about how the Focus had some bullshit limited warranty. Whoever made the ad must have been sarcastic, because the Accord and Camry the cream of the crop in sedan reliability, whereas Ford has been crappy-so so.
And then like a couple weeks ago the Ford Focus 2005 was recalled.
I also hate Ford in general along with other brands like Dodge. Their commercials are so condescending. They're like "OMG FACT!!!!! BULSHIT!......FACT!!!!! MORE BULLSHIT!".
You know those people that type in all caps in games. Yeah, they remind me of those people.
There was a Ford Focus commercial with a Honda Accord and Toyota Camry in a repair shop, and the ad was about how the Focus had some bullshit limited warranty. Whoever made the ad must have been sarcastic, because the Accord and Camry the cream of the crop in sedan reliability, whereas Ford has been crappy-so so.
And then like a couple weeks ago the Ford Focus 2005 was recalled.
I also hate Ford in general along with other brands like Dodge. Their commercials are so condescending. They're like "OMG FACT!!!!! BULSHIT!......FACT!!!!! MORE BULLSHIT!".
You know those people that type in all caps in games. Yeah, they remind me of those people.
Tsubaki said:
1. This will more than likely not be an issue, unless you are close to redline in 5th, meaning your going pretty freaking fast.
2. The answer to this depends on a few factors like what your redline is and the gearing (including ratio I believe, but don't quote me) of your car. Some cars can handle dropping to 3 from 5th (or 6th) at 60 mph. Usually the high revving, high redline cars can and love to do this. However, if you aren't careful, you can end up overrevving and blowing your engine. Never good.
3. Rev matching - if I recall correctly, this is something you want to do when your downshifting to make your shifts smoother and ease the stress on the on the transmission (the synchros - however, most cars nowadays do not require this, especially those with triple cone synchros, but it does make your shifts much smoother). This goes hand in hand with double clutching and heel and toeing. Essentially you want to match your engine speed in the middle of your shift to what it will be when you complete the downshift.
4. Not really
Hope this helps, also here's a site that may help you learn more about driving a manual:
http://www.standardshift.com/faq.html There are also some links to instructional videos on that page.
Also, you can look up how a manual transmission works on www.howstuffworks.com which seems to help those that want to learn how to drive one. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm
Also, since somebody mentioned the RX8, the car I really wanted a while back but have become disillusioned with it because of the numerous issues with the engine and it's power production, here's a link on how rotaries work: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/rotary-engine.htm Quite interesting
Oh and yeah, I agree that *typically* those that know how to drive stick are *usually* better drivers.
Oh and the DSG is quite the achievement, I can't wait until they perfect it. Unfortunately, when they do that will be the end of the old fashioned manual.
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
goddam, manual transmission snobs are just as bad as mac snobs..\
btw, i own a mac, know how to handle manual transmission very well, and enjoy both very much... i just hate it when people get all elitists about shit.
there are good drivers, and there are bad drivers. mix and match transmissions, it really doesnt matter.
btw, i own a mac, know how to handle manual transmission very well, and enjoy both very much... i just hate it when people get all elitists about shit.
there are good drivers, and there are bad drivers. mix and match transmissions, it really doesnt matter.
IIRC there was some research done 5 or so years ago by one of the car company's that showed when people had more to do when driving (manual shift etc.), their attention to what was around them increased as well as their reaction times. So there for Manual drivers are better .
Tsubaki:
1. At that type of speed I doubt it'd make any difference in any car.
2. As the others have said it all depends on the gearing of the car, but you won't do much damage to the gearbox from doing this. The larger risk is of either compression locking the engine and having the drive tyres lock up for a little bit or as darscot had done when the rpm's from the tyres multipied by the gear ratio is well over the redline of the engine and things go bang.
3. Matching revs, you'll find you can change up and down gears without using the clutch at all , and without grinding into gear either. A useful skill to have if you have a clutch cable snaps. Basically it's getting the right RPM at the engine as the RPM of the gear you are shifting to is spinning or close enough.
.Tsubaki:
1. At that type of speed I doubt it'd make any difference in any car.
2. As the others have said it all depends on the gearing of the car, but you won't do much damage to the gearbox from doing this. The larger risk is of either compression locking the engine and having the drive tyres lock up for a little bit or as darscot had done when the rpm's from the tyres multipied by the gear ratio is well over the redline of the engine and things go bang.
3. Matching revs, you'll find you can change up and down gears without using the clutch at all , and without grinding into gear either. A useful skill to have if you have a clutch cable snaps. Basically it's getting the right RPM at the engine as the RPM of the gear you are shifting to is spinning or close enough.
Since we're talking about manuals, what was your driving level at when you learned to drive one? And how long did it take?
i've been "shadow driving" a manual in preparation of possibly getting one as my next car. Obviously it's not the same thing, but i'm trying to make the concept of manual switching gears a little less foreign. Seems simple enough, but when i read pages like http://www.standardshift.com/faq.html, it seems like it's learning to drive all over again, which i guess it is.
i've been "shadow driving" a manual in preparation of possibly getting one as my next car. Obviously it's not the same thing, but i'm trying to make the concept of manual switching gears a little less foreign. Seems simple enough, but when i read pages like http://www.standardshift.com/faq.html, it seems like it's learning to drive all over again, which i guess it is.
BuckRobotron
Member
Manual, all other things being equal.
TheOMan said:
Thanks for all the comments. I think I've learned a bit about driving a manual.
I guess back to my original line of thought:
What is the proper way to get use out of manually shifting in Automatic transmissions? I know there's an article on TCC shifting automatics, but I'm sorta unclear about some of the concepts.
Like, why would I go around town in 2nd gear (25mph @ 2000 rpms), when I can just stick it in Drive and use up less gas? Or maybe that was the point of the article... performance & speed vs economic fueling.
I got my license at 17, but didn't really drive much until I got my first car @ 19. My first car was a Hyundai Excel, which was auto. That was fun and easy to do stuff in, but it's nothing like owning a manual. My 2nd car was manual, that was the Corolla I bought in 1999. I guess you could call me an expert in that I was used to driving 80-100mph on the highway, and I'd I easily 3-wheeled this old Caprice Classic I'd rented for a few weeks. But I'd never driven stick until I got the Rolla, so how good you can really be with just a gas and brake is questionable. With most FWD cars, you don't even get car-control skills.aoi tsuki said:
When I got my Corolla, I'd driven stick all of three times. The first time, my friend let me stall his car a few dozen times in a parking lot one night, and I only really learned how a clutch feels, I didn't really learn how to engage/disengage is properly. The second time, I sober drove my friend's old econobox back from a bar. I wasn't all that sober and don't really know how we not only made it home, but also dropped off a bunch of people and swung by the woods. The third time, I'd gone to a dealership, flashed my IBM badge and asked to test drive a Protege. I told him I didn't know how to drive stick, but he told me it was easy if I knew the concept. He then tossed me the keys and let me take it on a country road by myself. Yup...that IBM badge carries a lot of weight. I guess he figured I was good for any damages. What he didn't know was that I was just an intern. :lol
So when I got my first manual car, I kinda knew what I was doing, but I was really, really bad at it. Test driving the Corolla, I stalled it a bunch of times on a hill. I almost balked on the purchase at that point to get an automatic Firebird. But the insurance rate convinced me to get the Corolla, and I've not been disappointed since. Learning to drive the car properly took me two days. Of course, I made it a point each of those nights to take the car to the bottom of the hill my apartment was on, and learn to start that way. If you can get going on a hill, everything else is easy. I didn't get "good" with a stick for a couple months. I was grinding gears on a weekly basis for the first few months. I didn't learn how to drive a stick hard until a couple years ago, so about 4 years. I'd never really revved to redline except by accident, and I didn't really know how to downshift (rev-matching). I used to just drop into neutral, take my turn, then put it back into gear. At that point, I started leaning on the car pretty hard, pretty regularly. Unsuprisingly, the clutch went soon after that. Not the actual clutch, but the master cylinder did go. But thanks to the sacrifices made by my Corolla, I am not quite proficient with a manual, and I'd never give it up except for a quality semi-auto or dogbox. PEACE.
the only thing i can really say for those who want to learn stick is, don't do what duane and i did and learn on a new car. if you do, make sure you can afford the clutch job on top of the purchase price.
you can take your standard slushbox to the limit with a little finessing too. it's all in the driver, not the transmission.
I agree entirely. But guys who drive manuals tend to be the ones who care about performance and want to drive better. To them, driving isn't about going from point A to be point B, it's about having fun while doing it. I just don't experience the same enjoyment from an auto.fart said:
BTW, what do you drive?
i tend to ride it a lot, and i make the usual newbie mistakes. i guess you missed the thread, but i bought a new rsx-s in december with the intent of learning stick on it. so, the clutch wasn't broken in very well, among other things. new driver + high revving sport compact = poor car
it's a lot of fun when i'm nailing it though.
it's a lot of fun when i'm nailing it though.
I learned stick on an old MkII GTI, now I have a MkIII GTI and I love it. VR6 powering the front wheels; I'm sure your car is faster and handles better, but I like mine a lot. I'm in Philly right now, so SEPTA's my transportation. My baby is just sitting at home.fart said:i tend to ride it a lot, and i make the usual newbie mistakes. i guess you missed the thread, but i bought a new rsx-s in december with the intent of learning stick on it. so, the clutch wasn't broken in very well, among other things. new driver + high revving sport compact = poor car
it's a lot of fun when i'm nailing it though.
New driver? How old are you?
yeah, the only way to really learn manual is just to drive it every day.... when i was about to get my car, i practiced on my friend's toyota and nailed it easily. let me tell you however, german cars are a whole different deal, and soon i was stalling all over the place. thankfully, audis come with strong clutches (30k miles later and all is still well)
That reminds me, I did 40k+ miles worth of damage to my clutch before the master cylinder went. The clutch itself is in fine condition even with 130+k miles on the odometer. And the clutch is the original one that came with the car AFAIK, b/c I bought it certified preowned. It was a 95 and I bought it in 99. It still runs, but going from my Spyder to the Corolla is unbearable. There's a ton less travel in the pedal, and the clutch engages awful high. Pedal effort is also quite high in comparison. I didn't know what a good clutch felt like until I got my most recent car. So as fart mentioned, try to learn stick on a used car or a beater. You can do it fine on a new car, but you'll worry more about it, and you'll inevitably do more damage. But it's not like you'll do irrepairable damage. The most is a new clutch or tranny in the absolute worst case. And that's like 5 years down the road or so. PEACE.golem said:
aoi tsuki said:
My Mini, which I got in November '03, was my first manual car. I had been driving automatics for about 10 years at that time, and had never touched a manual transmission. I mostly practiced on weekends, and it took about 3 weeks (6-8 hours total) before I felt comfortable on most roads, and about another week of practice for starts on steep hills.
It sounds funny, but I now find it "difficult" to drive automatics. It really does feel like you have less control. Plus my left foot keeps trying to slam the imaginary clutch whenever I start.
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