SolidSnakex
Member
"Better than Mario Sunshine in what way? "
Better level design, platforming, and music. It's just a better game.
Better level design, platforming, and music. It's just a better game.
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Mario Sunshine > Mario 64
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golduck342
Member
My only beef with sunshine are the blue coin shines, there's too many of them, and hardly any indictaion as to where to find them. Everytime there's a topic on here it makes me want to play it, then I get turned off by the long cutscenes at the beginning.
Mayor McCheese
Member
You're comparing apples to oranges. That's like saying Tomb Raider is better than Pitfall because it has better level design. You have to look at them for what they were in their day. Mario 64 was the first platformer of it's kind and started a whole friggin genre. Mario Sunshine just did more of the same and added some gimmicks. I was bored shitless playing Mario 64 on the DS too, and would much rather play Sunshine. But when Mario 64 originally came out, I was all about it.
See, while I do believe that nostalgia overrates Mario 64 by a great deal, I think that you're giving SMS too much credit as well.
When I went back and replayed Mario 64 in the Summer of 2002 (Or around there, I think) I really can't say there was anything that jumped out at me as being fantastic anymore. I think that the game does repeat itself too often, some of the levels are simply too small and pointless to add anything to the game, while others are really quite good. On the whole, I just felt like some of the fun was sucked out of the game by some levels. I think that it's a good game, but I really don't think it's fantastic...more groundbreaking than fantastic, that's for sure.
SMS, though, has its own problems (I personally loved the camera). It lacked a compelling final boss and, really now, the Piantas are as generic as they could possibly be. The Blue Coins are terribly implemented and add absolutely no fun to grabbing the final Stars, and the final boss is a PIECE OF SHIT. It's a game that, while the parts are pretty good, the sum of those parts just doesn't come out as well. The Secret Levels, the Water Pak and a majority of the bosses in the main game seem well put-together, but there doesn't seem to be something that ties it all in together. The "story" doesn't have a real conclusion, never really goes anywhere, and on the whole doesn't do a good enough job of creating challenge and a fun gaming experience.
If I had to rank my enjoyment of each, I honestly can't answer the question. Both are flawed, but one was a huge success that created, if not invented, the 3D Platformer Genre. I don't think I can really argue with those who prefer that game to the one that's best qualities are a water pack and a throwback to past titles.
When I went back and replayed Mario 64 in the Summer of 2002 (Or around there, I think) I really can't say there was anything that jumped out at me as being fantastic anymore. I think that the game does repeat itself too often, some of the levels are simply too small and pointless to add anything to the game, while others are really quite good. On the whole, I just felt like some of the fun was sucked out of the game by some levels. I think that it's a good game, but I really don't think it's fantastic...more groundbreaking than fantastic, that's for sure.
SMS, though, has its own problems (I personally loved the camera). It lacked a compelling final boss and, really now, the Piantas are as generic as they could possibly be. The Blue Coins are terribly implemented and add absolutely no fun to grabbing the final Stars, and the final boss is a PIECE OF SHIT. It's a game that, while the parts are pretty good, the sum of those parts just doesn't come out as well. The Secret Levels, the Water Pak and a majority of the bosses in the main game seem well put-together, but there doesn't seem to be something that ties it all in together. The "story" doesn't have a real conclusion, never really goes anywhere, and on the whole doesn't do a good enough job of creating challenge and a fun gaming experience.
If I had to rank my enjoyment of each, I honestly can't answer the question. Both are flawed, but one was a huge success that created, if not invented, the 3D Platformer Genre. I don't think I can really argue with those who prefer that game to the one that's best qualities are a water pack and a throwback to past titles.
I was turned off by Sunshine because:
- i don't like the fucking stupid water machine and the gameplay with it. Bring me a Mario without crutches tks.
- Locales are "meh". Lead me into less immersion and the game more difficult to like.
To help those turn off there wasn't good songs or exceptional graphics. The only thing i was very fond of were those bonus level of mad platforming.
- i don't like the fucking stupid water machine and the gameplay with it. Bring me a Mario without crutches tks.
- Locales are "meh". Lead me into less immersion and the game more difficult to like.
To help those turn off there wasn't good songs or exceptional graphics. The only thing i was very fond of were those bonus level of mad platforming.
SolidSnakex
Member
Himuro said:
And there is where the problem is. Play Mario 64 where its meant to be played, on the N64. Not the version on the DS. I don't even like that and Mario 64 is my favorite platformer.
Himuro said:
Pretty much. Plus the platforming and wall jumping were tweaked noticably. The 64 DS revision, if it were on a console with analogue controls, would undisputably kick the shit out of the original Mario 64. As it stands, it still does.
Memles said:
There was analog via touchscreen.
However, it was easier and more efficient to just use the D-Pad.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Mario Sunshine's warp levels alone are better than the whole of Mario 64.
Sadly, the rest of it has a lot of problems and drags it down.
Sadly, the rest of it has a lot of problems and drags it down.
GitarooMan
Member
Banjo-Kazooie > Rayman 2 > Mario 64 > Mario Sunshine
I just could never get into Mario Sunshine's level designs. The overworld was bland and one-note. Also, the character designs were just atrocious. Some parts were genius (I love that cliffs level) but that kind of design was few and far between.
Also, I entirely agree that you must play Mario 64 on the N64. The freakin analog control was created for that game, and then it was not available on the DS, making it clearly inferior
I just could never get into Mario Sunshine's level designs. The overworld was bland and one-note. Also, the character designs were just atrocious. Some parts were genius (I love that cliffs level) but that kind of design was few and far between.
Also, I entirely agree that you must play Mario 64 on the N64. The freakin analog control was created for that game, and then it was not available on the DS, making it clearly inferior
EternalDarko
Member
The insanity, look even peach is shocked at your statement.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
Mama Smurf said:
Seriously. And not too many games can pull levels like that off either -- only with extremely fun, precise controls can challenging, one-fall-and-you're-dead levels be enjoyable.
The story sucked, the tropical theme wore a little thin half-way through, and the NPC's were uninspired, disgusting blobs, but SMS's gameplay was brilliant as the warp levels demonstrated. Those levels alone level it with its Mario brethren. A worthy addition to the series, and, speaking entirely from a gameplay standpoint, a tighter game than Mario 64.
ToyMachine228
Member
If I play Super Mario 64 DS, and Super Mario Sunshine right after another, I would easily pick Sunshine over it. Super Mario 64 is a great game, no doubt about that. AMAZING for it's time. But I simply think that Sunshine's controls are a bit tighter, and the world if more charming.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
This pretty much invalidates your entire argument and thread. Mainly because Super Mario 64 DS sucks ass.
You wouldn't be saying that if you had played it with an analog stick.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Matlock said:No argument there, but D-Pad beats 'em both.
What the hell is wrong with you?
GitarooMan
Member
Kangu said:
I'll agree with that, but with 3D "platformers" I tend to care more about inventive level design and various interesting objectives, and I think BK is the king of that (just think of the board game ending as an example). Psychonauts is another good example
For hardcore traditional platforming, I think the warp levels in SMS are excellent, but I still say overall the game is lacking. Rayman 2 does have some excellent platforming segments, but on the whole is a little too easy.
Mario Sunshine is one of the few games this gen that I sold. It was a while ago, and I honestly don't remember why I didn't like it. I think my over all feeling was just, "blah." I did really, really enjoy the backpackless abstract stages, but everything else I just didn't care about.
I like Mario 64 better.
I like Mario 64 better.
Himuro said:
Allow me to throw in my two cents.
I practically got out of gaming for a few years (I started college in Fall '95) and I missed a lot, namely the entire N64 heyday. I got a PS in '98 or so with Symphony of the Night, and gradually got back into gaming to the point I'm back in now almost as heavily as before.
Needless to say, I missed Super Mario 64. I got a Cube for Metroid Prime, and as I started to get more and more games, I rented Super Mario Sunshine and really liked it. I eventually bought it and got everything, all blue coins too. That got me to thinking I should probably check out Mario 64, since it was the only true Mario platform game I hadn't played (I had also just finished Yoshi's Island, which I missed out on in '95). So I got a used N64 (Smoke, no less! Perfect shape though, box and all) and a copy of the "Player's Choice" Super Mario 64.
What an unbelievably awesome game. Loved loved loved loved loved it. About the best word I could use to describe the game overall is "charming". I was charmed by the music, by the character design (although it's a tad "fugly" by today's standards) and I played as much as I possibly could, staying up till 3 or 4 in the morning to play, and got all 120 stars in a week (I also work full time). I absolutely loved it, and this was last summer, 2004. Sunshine is great, but I really did have more fun playing Super Mario 64, and I played them out of order. The DS version admittedly has its problems, but I enjoyed it for the extra content. Do yourself a huge favor, and grab a cheap N64 and a copy of Super Mario 64. You can thank me later.
Mario Sunshine was a great game, that I cannot deny. But it didn't have the Mario-esque feel to it like Mario 64 did. Mario 64 had more diverse levels and magical powerups, and actually cool bosses. Mario Sunshine just had a water pack. Seriously, the only reason the game was made was to show that the GC could do amazing water effects, which it greatly accomplished.
And I'm not being blinded by the Nostalgia thing, so don't worry about that. I loved A Link to the Past, but I think Ocarina is (somewhat) a better game. If Mario Sunshine was a little more traditional, I would have happily handed the crown down to it.
And I'm not being blinded by the Nostalgia thing, so don't worry about that. I loved A Link to the Past, but I think Ocarina is (somewhat) a better game. If Mario Sunshine was a little more traditional, I would have happily handed the crown down to it.
SMS just didn't feel complete, it didn't hang together as a whole - ironically the warp levels which were arguably it's best feature just added to that feeling.
It had some really good ideas in it (the tightropes were genius), and was definitely more of a challenge, but it just didn't have the magic Mario64 had. It didn't have the same exploration factor, the variety, or the rewards
And some things in SMS, like the hotel level, that pissing manta ray, the way Yoshi was implemented, and boat bit and final boss, really left a bad taste. It felt rough in places, which is something I never found with Mario64.
It had some really good ideas in it (the tightropes were genius), and was definitely more of a challenge, but it just didn't have the magic Mario64 had. It didn't have the same exploration factor, the variety, or the rewards
And some things in SMS, like the hotel level, that pissing manta ray, the way Yoshi was implemented, and boat bit and final boss, really left a bad taste. It felt rough in places, which is something I never found with Mario64.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
SM 64 on the N64 is one of the best games of all time, IMO...
Its much better than Sunshine (the 1st ever dissapointing Mario game, IMO).....hell even Sly Cooper was better and more enjoyable than Sunshine and there were alot of people on the forum that agreed with this when both games came out...
Its much better than Sunshine (the 1st ever dissapointing Mario game, IMO).....hell even Sly Cooper was better and more enjoyable than Sunshine and there were alot of people on the forum that agreed with this when both games came out...
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Level variety. Moves like long jump. Lack of poor voice acting. Ability to go into a level and have there be a variety of stars you can possibly obtain rather than a specific one. But mostly because while they're both well-made 3D platformers, such a thing is much more impressive for a 1996 game than a 2002 game. Sure if most of us hadn't played SM64 until 2004 or later we'd think very differently of it.Himuro said:
As opposed to racing down slides, riding a magic carpet, bringing a baby penguin to its mother, bringing a snowman its head, or raising sunken ships.
GitarooMan
Member
Himuro said:
For one, playing on a TV versus playing on a 4-inch handheld screen makes a big difference. The scope of the worlds is just more impressive when they are larger.
Also, I must stress again that the N64 controller was designed specifically for the game. The camera controls are more convenient (hence the c-buttons), and the analog stick makes a big difference. Having to press y to run with the d-pad on the DS or using that ridiculous touch screen control really reduces the amount of precision that having the N64 controller allows.
CajoleJuice
Member
Seriously, that's what Nintendo should do. But keep the "fall to your death scenario," that'd make it just like the classics. Add in classic enemies and powerups to the levels, and ta-da, you have an awesome game. I loved those Bowser levels in SM64. Something in that nature, just with all the different themes.Fight for Freeform said:
Make an entire game based on this (but without the fall to your death scenario) and it would be awesome. That's what platformers are all about.
SM64 > Sunshine, because of the level design, the variety in the levels, and the music.
And yea, I played SM64 when it came out, and I was 10, so it had a huge effect on me.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
That's because you haven't played it with (good) analog control, you silly cunt.
"I don't see why sex is so great. Granted, I've never had it, but still. I'm not convinced"
Himuro said:
Dude, it just felt better. The controller, the sound out of your TV or sound system, the image size, filtering on textures, etc.... there's alot of small details that makes it better and also there's an unrational part or hard to grasp one related with the times and the perception we had of games at that time. Mario 64 felt great, complete, rewarding, controlled nice and was fun. Each of those things were toned down in the DS version because of many factors, prolly even more than the ones i mentionned.
Mario 64 on DS feels so "not as nice" that i would say it's even NORMAL you prefer Sunshine.
Himuro said:
Well, in order to get all 150 stars (they added 30 to the DS version) you have to use all 4 characters. They all have different moves, but I really only liked using Mario. I just did not enjoy playing as Yoshi or Wario. The controls, as others have mentioned, are quite different when using the D-pad versus the analog stick. The best example I can think of is the backflip. It's practically effortless with the stick, but the D-pad takes some getting used to. The stick really does feel lots better, I played the games only 5 months apart. I also prefer consoles to handhelds, for obvious reasons like the screen size. The graphics are definitely better on the DS version, but the N64 version has more charm to it, IMO. They also slightly changed some music in the DS version, not a huge deal, but I felt it unnecessary, and prefer the original's.
As a side note, lots of people really blow the control thing out of the water. It's definitely doable on the DS, but it's not nearly as bad as some folks make it out to be. The N64's setup is much more fluid though, without a doubt.
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