Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
You haven't used both controls. Most of the rest of us have. How about we tell you whether it should be brought up or not?
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Mario Sunshine > Mario 64
- Thread starter U5230
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Mario 64 is a more polished and all-around better designed game, and I'll admit it holds a lot of nostalgic value to me. But Mario Sunshine simply had better controls, better platforming mechanics and (at times) the very best level design for sheer platforming in 3D ever.
Jonnyboy117
Member
Actually, I agree with the first poster in essence. I'm not a Mario 64 hater whatsoever, in fact I think it's one of the most innovative and influential games ever made. But Sunshine refines virtually everything about Mario 64 and puts the gameplay's focus back on platforming, while 64 had a lot of adventuring elements that I think were overdone. Both games have their problems, and have from the start, but I think Sunshine is more fun to play. It certainly hasn't had the same effect on the industry and the art, though.
Mama Smurf
My penis is still intact.
Alright, you've barely played it with those controls. Most people would agree that the DS controls are inferior to the N64 ones though, and you want to know why people find it better. So when we give one of the explanations, how about you don't tell us not to bring it up?
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
Haha, no. I call everyone a silly cunt, especially silly cunts who, by their own admission, are discounting the importance of something they never tried.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
How long did you play it, and how many years ago was it? Either your memory is faulty, or you have some kind of hand mutation that makes playing Mario 64 with a touchscreen superior to playing Mario 64 with an analog joystick.
jetpacks was yes
Member
OpinionatedCyborg said:
Totally agree with you. While Mario 64 may be the overall "better game" for various reasons, I'd much rather play Sunshine at any given moment. It's definitely a tighter game, with tighter controls, acrobatics, and overall platforming. And while Mario 64 is playable on the DS (though inferior to the n64 version), Sunshine would not be.
I'll also add that when comparing Mario64 to SMS and judging Sunshine as its own game, unlike some people here, I don't give a flying shit about the design of the NPCs and the tropical theme and the story and all that other bullshit. But that's just me.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
Well okay then. So we're back to your opinion on Mario 64's quality being completely invalid.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
No, you have to have played a non-butchered version of a game to have a valid opinion.
Also, this isn't AOL or 1994, so you can stop with the acronyms.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I will have to weigh in with the minority opinion here that I think Sunshine is an overall better game than Mario 64. Accusations of Sunshine not 'innovating' like Mario 64 are kind of moot to me - how could Mario 64 NOT "totally innovate" compared to past Mario games because it was 3D vs 2D? A total format change.
Judged strictly as two games, and not factoring in Nintendo 64 "shock and awe" nostalgia, Sunshine is more refined, more varied, and in some ways more balanced (such as the balance of exploratory missions vs the focused hardcore platforming of the warp world missions). Sunshine isn't perfect by any means, and it has little to do with the camera. It doesn't have what seems to be considered the required Mario charm in terms of level settings. It doesn't have as wide a variety of area themes as Mario 64. The final normal world, Pinta Village, is a very boring design and concept visually and in terms of level design - the worst area in the game. And the concept of a tropical resort ghost house is creative, but it just didn't work out in atmosphere and design. Finally, Sunshine could have stood a bigger payoff for 100% completion if it was going the route of a collect-a-thon - blue coins. HOWEVER, unlike most collect-a-thons, I found the blue coin and red coins in Sunshine to largely involve gameplay feats to display your skill and creativity - not unlike the medals in Kirby Canvas Curse for the NDS.
(Though in spite of its weakness in the area of level array and design, I think the concept of a cohesive and particular theme beyond the by-now very standard Mushroom World was conceptually great and very well done as a whole. It helps that the hub world city in the game is great and full of personality, tying the overall theme together between the various worlds.)
In the end, I personally gotta weigh in with Sunshine being the -overall- better 3D Mario game. It comes down to the desert island question: if stranded on a desert island, I'd take Sunshine over Mario 64 without hesitation.
Judged strictly as two games, and not factoring in Nintendo 64 "shock and awe" nostalgia, Sunshine is more refined, more varied, and in some ways more balanced (such as the balance of exploratory missions vs the focused hardcore platforming of the warp world missions). Sunshine isn't perfect by any means, and it has little to do with the camera. It doesn't have what seems to be considered the required Mario charm in terms of level settings. It doesn't have as wide a variety of area themes as Mario 64. The final normal world, Pinta Village, is a very boring design and concept visually and in terms of level design - the worst area in the game. And the concept of a tropical resort ghost house is creative, but it just didn't work out in atmosphere and design. Finally, Sunshine could have stood a bigger payoff for 100% completion if it was going the route of a collect-a-thon - blue coins. HOWEVER, unlike most collect-a-thons, I found the blue coin and red coins in Sunshine to largely involve gameplay feats to display your skill and creativity - not unlike the medals in Kirby Canvas Curse for the NDS.
(Though in spite of its weakness in the area of level array and design, I think the concept of a cohesive and particular theme beyond the by-now very standard Mushroom World was conceptually great and very well done as a whole. It helps that the hub world city in the game is great and full of personality, tying the overall theme together between the various worlds.)
In the end, I personally gotta weigh in with Sunshine being the -overall- better 3D Mario game. It comes down to the desert island question: if stranded on a desert island, I'd take Sunshine over Mario 64 without hesitation.
Nintendo Ate My Children
Member
You did play it on an N64, right?
Red Scarlet
Member
I'd try it on the N64 instead for better comparisons, Himu.
I never really got into Mario Sunshine, i just beat the game and never bothered to get all 120 stars. But I played through and got everything in Mario 64.
What really bothered me were inconstancies in the Mario sunshine game world. Why's it when i leave an item somewhere, when i get back its disapeared? Why's it when riding yoshi when i touch water yoshi disapears?
I also didnt like the fact that the refined controls made it too easy to do the back flip by mistake. Leading to many accidential deaths when fighting bosses. And the camera the SMS camera has a habit of moving back to the same bad angles even when you change it. Like on the secret levels many times you have to do the platform jumping whilst, moving the camera simulataneously.
What really bothered me were inconstancies in the Mario sunshine game world. Why's it when i leave an item somewhere, when i get back its disapeared? Why's it when riding yoshi when i touch water yoshi disapears?
I also didnt like the fact that the refined controls made it too easy to do the back flip by mistake. Leading to many accidential deaths when fighting bosses. And the camera the SMS camera has a habit of moving back to the same bad angles even when you change it. Like on the secret levels many times you have to do the platform jumping whilst, moving the camera simulataneously.
I'm tempted to agree.
When I sit back at look at it, while Mario 64 does some things better (setting + music), I think a lot of us, including myself, are a little biased because of the original experience Mario 64 gave us. It was something very new.
Sunshine isn't new. But if you ignore the setting and music and look at the gameplay, it's much more varied and fun than Mario 64.
I'm gonna have to go with equal.
When I sit back at look at it, while Mario 64 does some things better (setting + music), I think a lot of us, including myself, are a little biased because of the original experience Mario 64 gave us. It was something very new.
Sunshine isn't new. But if you ignore the setting and music and look at the gameplay, it's much more varied and fun than Mario 64.
I'm gonna have to go with equal.
I happen to be a staunch supporter of Mario 64 and even on DS I still think its more fun then Mario Sunshine. Mario 64 has an even good quality throughout, there wasn't ever a level I really disliked and neither was there a stage I absolutly love... although the first 3 stages are a bit better then the others I guess. Mario Sunshine has a bunch of stuff in it I like more then 64 - having more then 4 or 5 boss battles for one , I loved th efact sunshine pitted bosses against me a couple times a level, and some of those bosses were really inventive- the giant manta ray shadow for example or the eel with the dirty teeth.
Unfortunatly they drilled the resort town theme into the ground and I felt there just wasn't enough variety between one stage to the next. That and the camera got really bad in the last couple stages, the aforementioned eel boss for example was just about unplayable becuase of the camera issues that and the lack of proper underwater controls. I thought the final boss was cool although with good timing you could beat it in about 30 seconds, if you managed to run and nail each of the hot tubs pegs.
Ultimatly I just dont find the enjoyment in picking up mario sunshine and playing it like I did with mario 64, it could be nostalgia but I mean even sunshine is 3 years old now and I'd still rather pick up 64 and play it for 20 minutes then do the same for sunshine.
Unfortunatly they drilled the resort town theme into the ground and I felt there just wasn't enough variety between one stage to the next. That and the camera got really bad in the last couple stages, the aforementioned eel boss for example was just about unplayable becuase of the camera issues that and the lack of proper underwater controls. I thought the final boss was cool although with good timing you could beat it in about 30 seconds, if you managed to run and nail each of the hot tubs pegs.
Ultimatly I just dont find the enjoyment in picking up mario sunshine and playing it like I did with mario 64, it could be nostalgia but I mean even sunshine is 3 years old now and I'd still rather pick up 64 and play it for 20 minutes then do the same for sunshine.
Error Macro
Member
Idioteque said:
répété pour l'emphase
Instigator
Banned
SMS will no doubt be seen by future generations as the Super Mario Bros 2 USA in 3D.
It's a clumsy, broken, experimental game, the kind that Nintendo often refers to in interviews, but claim they will only release it when it's perfect. They made an exception for SMS and released it anyway. They did it for Yoshi Safari too. WR:BS as well...
It's a clumsy, broken, experimental game, the kind that Nintendo often refers to in interviews, but claim they will only release it when it's perfect. They made an exception for SMS and released it anyway. They did it for Yoshi Safari too. WR:BS as well...
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Nintendo Ate My Children said:You did play it on an N64, right?
On launch day buster
Didn't stop till I had every star. Played SMS on release day and didn't stop till I had every shine Excess Poo Flakes
Banned
Loki bay in Sunshine beats anything in 64, but 64 is overall a beter game.
Sunshine had an interesting final boss I thought. The difficulty for him was about on par with other Mario games. (No one saw that boss coming!)
Mario 64's final boss was Bowser, for the third time. You beat him using the same strategy you used on him during the first encounter.
Sunshine final boss > Mario 64 final boss.
Mario 64's final boss was Bowser, for the third time. You beat him using the same strategy you used on him during the first encounter.
Sunshine final boss > Mario 64 final boss.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Instigator said:SMS will no doubt be seen by future generations as the Super Mario Bros 2 USA in 3D.
It's a clumsy, broken, experimental game, the kind that Nintendo often refers to in interviews, but claim they will only release it when it's perfect. They made an exception for SMS and released it anyway. They did it for Yoshi Safari too. WR:BS as well...
You need to improve your contrarian-meta-trolling-gung-fu, young one.
SMB2u is generally regarded as a bright move for Nintendo to have released in the US and wasn't an experimental, or broken, game as most seem to see agree. You're stretching the definition of 'experimental' by simply the fact that they pasted in different character sprites and tweaked a few elements and art. If anything, the 'real' Super Mario Bros. 2, is seen by many as a broken, poorly designed game with at times almost unreasonable mechanics and expectations of the player. Oops.
Instigator
Banned
Kaijima said:
So you're saying they released a less worse Mario instead of the cheap sequel Japan got? I'd agree with that. SMB2 (USA) is bad in any case. As some people are accusing SM64 fans of being too nostalgic, I'd say the same thing about SMB2 fans. There's a good reason Nintendo never again replicated the slow gameplay of SMB2 in any sequel... because it sucks.
Taichu said:
Umm, huh? Its been a while since a beat the game but iirc Sunshines last boss was just
Bowser in a humoungous hot-tub
Anyway I loved the world of Sunshine until the 7 and very final world which really dissapointed me in design and the fact that it was the LAST stage. Mario 64 had 15 stages and the Boo's Haunted house was much superior to the "haunted resort". I recently played Mario 64 on the N64 and it was magic all over again. It felt Complete unlike the Cube Mario. Waterpack made platforming 10x easier too which took all the challenge away. I will admit that the warp levels were awsome though yet again too easy with the waterpack.
Mario 64 does some things better, Mario Sunshine does other things better...
...but imho, SMS is the better of the two. I love Mario 64, but I think Super Mario Sunshine was just ultra refined (stupid hotel and crappy ending segment aside). And it did bring things new to the genre. The water pack, man, I love that thing. A lot of people think it distracted from the experience, and I loved the packless segments as well. But the thing just made an absolute fucking super acrobat out of Mario. The stunts you could perform on it were brilliant and I loved every minute of it. Imho, the best platformer this gen.
...but imho, SMS is the better of the two. I love Mario 64, but I think Super Mario Sunshine was just ultra refined (stupid hotel and crappy ending segment aside). And it did bring things new to the genre. The water pack, man, I love that thing. A lot of people think it distracted from the experience, and I loved the packless segments as well. But the thing just made an absolute fucking super acrobat out of Mario. The stunts you could perform on it were brilliant and I loved every minute of it. Imho, the best platformer this gen.
iced lightning
Member
how long did sms take to beat? It was the first mario game that I didn't feel compelled to finish. Seemed so dull for a mario title.
D
Deleted member 284
Unconfirmed Member
Took my wife about a good two months without any Faqs.iced lightning said:
Edit: I meant two weeks
SMS' final boss was, plainly, a piece of shit. In theory, the boss is laughable, but in its execution it suffered huge amounts of slowdown, seemed to require no real strategy and instead requires blind luck and the use of the one nozzle that you have almost no control over.
SM64's trio of Bowser battles kept a game that was generally quite open-ended grounded in three consecutive battles, each one getting slightly more difficult. That way, when you beat the final one, you feel as if your skills have improved and that the challenge of the game had ramped up. In the case of the game, it had, since the final few stages are by far the toughest. It seemed like you progressed...
In SMS, it felt like you had reached an arbritrary number of shines and suddenly had to navigate a shitty-ass rowboat across completely unexplained Lava until you reached a shitty-ass final boss battle. Yippee?
That said, I agree...I'd rather play SMS than SM64, but I'd rather finish the latter.
SM64's trio of Bowser battles kept a game that was generally quite open-ended grounded in three consecutive battles, each one getting slightly more difficult. That way, when you beat the final one, you feel as if your skills have improved and that the challenge of the game had ramped up. In the case of the game, it had, since the final few stages are by far the toughest. It seemed like you progressed...
In SMS, it felt like you had reached an arbritrary number of shines and suddenly had to navigate a shitty-ass rowboat across completely unexplained Lava until you reached a shitty-ass final boss battle. Yippee?
That said, I agree...I'd rather play SMS than SM64, but I'd rather finish the latter.
I loved Super Mario 64 on the N64, but I couldn't stand SMS. I dunno, maybe SM64 was novel in its time, and I'm just bored by the gameplay now.
BTW, I didn't play much of SMS, but don't you have to tackle the challenges in order, while in SM64 you had far more flexibility in what challenges to do in a given level?
BTW, I didn't play much of SMS, but don't you have to tackle the challenges in order, while in SM64 you had far more flexibility in what challenges to do in a given level?
The water level music in Mario 64 is the the only part of Mario 64 I can safely say destroys Mario Sunshine
Mario Sunshine seems to be enjoyed more by those who didn't get hypnotized by the Mario 64 nastalgia
also: Mario 64 > Mario 64 DS (despite the DS version having an infinately better camera)
Mario Sunshine seems to be enjoyed more by those who didn't get hypnotized by the Mario 64 nastalgia
also: Mario 64 > Mario 64 DS (despite the DS version having an infinately better camera)
Mario Sunshine wasn't nearly as legendary as it should've been for a 'Mario' title ... But I'll play it over Mario64 any day.
Back in its days Mario64 was entirely new ---- but now, there's something isolating, lonely, and depressing feeling when playing it ... I can't describe.
But Mario Sunshine is very relaxing and really feels beachy
Back in its days Mario64 was entirely new ---- but now, there's something isolating, lonely, and depressing feeling when playing it ... I can't describe.
But Mario Sunshine is very relaxing and really feels beachy
Virgin Wii
Banned
EternalDarko said:
Yeah, Himuro set himself up for that. :lol
Personally, I feel that Mario 64 is leaps and bounds above Sunshine. While, I did enjoy Sunshine, and as I have stated before, the FLUDD-less levels are easily some of the best pure platforming to be found this generation, Mario 64 still comes out ahead. Main reason is that the first time I played Mario 64, back when it first came out, I was amazed. I hadn't played anything like it before. However, I did not have this same feeling with Sunshine, but then again, I didn't exactly expect to. Sunshine refined 64's formula in a sense, but did nothing to expand on it. Also, the music and areas in 64 are much better than Sunshine's and I am a big fan of Sunshine's music. Sunshine was also extremely easy, except for a few of the FLUDD-less levels that really put your platforming skills to the test. The final stage + boss of Sunshine are rather pathetic IMO. The final boss was far too easy, and there should have much, much more platforming in place of the damn boat. It's all these factors that lead me to feel that Mario 64 > Sunshine.
I thought both games were kind of boring and frustrating in the end...I guess free-roaming platforming just isn't for me (I prefer a game like Klonoa 2 for example). The whole "adventure" aspect is just bothersome...having to be thrown out of the stage everytime you die...and running around in the "main hub" just to enter a new stage...a complete waste of time IMO. Just use a map instead.
SpoonyBard
Banned
I liked Sunshine more, the level design was better, controls were improved and the gameplay was more varied. Mario 64 did some things better though, it had more levels and the "gimmick" levels were great (big-small world, the clock level and the one with the changing water level). The ratio of FUDD-less levels and normal levels was about right in Sunshine, but it just needed more both kind of levels.
The hub level was also much better in Sunshine, the castle was nice at first but got old pretty quickly. I'd say Mario Sunshine is the best 3D platformer of all time, and Mario 64 is also pretty close to the top.
The hub level was also much better in Sunshine, the castle was nice at first but got old pretty quickly. I'd say Mario Sunshine is the best 3D platformer of all time, and Mario 64 is also pretty close to the top.
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