• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Matrix Questions: Why did the machines use humans for energy?

Status
Not open for further replies.

acidviper

Banned
soundwave05 said:
It's the ultimate humilation for the human race. We were once masters of civilization, now we're nothing more than a battery. We've become to machines what machines were once to us.

Yes, but they created they created Neo situation where humans have the option to fuck everything up. Is the Oracle trying to fuck things up for the machines? Why would the macines leave that possibility up to human nature when they could have been in control the entire time?
 

Boogie

Member
soundwave05 said:
Kaijima --

Yup you got it. It's definitely a "McGuffin".

The other thing is with science fiction you have to give things a more emotional meaning, because you're now talking about a world and a terminology which does not exist in the real world -- and thus is means jack shit to Joe Public who's watching the movie on a Friday.

The "matrix" means nothing if there isn't an emotional idea.

If you want a clear example of that, look at The Phantom Menace, Qui-Gon gives little Anakin the "midichlorian" speech explaining the Force, which is all nuts n' blots exposition and probably makes more logical sense than the explaination Yoda gives in ESB (which is more of a spiritual/emotinal, but still vague response) ... but did anyone in the audience actually care about the Qui-Gon speech?

No.

It doesn't work.

It may make logical sense, but emotionally its a big "so what?". Yoda's explaination of the Force works because we understand it on a spiritual/emotional level.

And that's a huge problem with a lot of science fiction stories, sometimes they get so enamored about the terminology/universe. No one gives a crap about robots and virtual reality, that's never what a story can be about, there has to be a human meaning to those ideas that anyone can understand.

The Lord of the Rings is not about a Ring ... because who gives a shit about a ring? It's all about what the ring represents (power), and that's why that story works. We can understand that idea, even if logically LOTR is wonky at times, but most audiences/readers understand the idea, it's an age-old storytelling device.

Great examples.

Maharg is totally missing the fucking point.
 
acidviper said:
Yes, but they created they created Neo situation where humans have the option to fuck everything up. Is the Oracle trying to fuck things up for the machines? Why would the macines leave that possibility up to human nature when they could have been in control the entire time?


Well you can look at it that way ... but I'm pretty sure with Neo the Wachowskis were writing from a Gnostic/Buddhist perspective; a "messiah" type figure must liberate people from the "hell/suffering" of real life by achieving a transcendant state .... through kung fu of course ;)

To be honest, I really always thought of the Oracle as nothing more than a plot device ... not so much as a character. She's the classic "oracle" that we've seen dozens of times before in Greek mythology and other types of mythology (the hero gains some kind of knowledge or counsel of the future from some type of transcendant being/goddess).
 

mrkgoo

Member
I agree with Soundwave. Movies are a medium for expression. They are supposed to do a number of things, though not necessarily all, including: Communicate emotion; inform; entertain. Of course, every viewer has their own opinion on what is entertaining or inofrming or whatever. Some would find not having a coherent or logical story to be a hindrance, but others may see value outside of that. The arguement would extend depending on what the purpose of the film maker is, and whether inerpretations are going beyond the makers intentions. But whatever the purpose, successful films have to relate to the audience on some level, whther it be by shock, nostalgia, or familiarity. Plausibility is important for some, but others see theme as a higher priority in the enjoyment of film. i mean, Eraserhead -> ???

But I just want to chime in about the Midichlorians. They don't explain the force, merely the connection between the Force and those that are force-sensitive. The Force itself remains no less mystical to me. If anyhting, it's explaining why some people are more attuned to the Force, adn others aren't. I will admit, though, that even explaining this removes the whole notion of relating to the character. One reason why Luke succeeds as a protagonist in A New Hope is because he is a humble farmboy, who, under a number of consequences ends up saving the galaxy. That could've been me. It's somthing kids love to watch and dream - "I'm nobdy now, but I could be somebody!". Anakin in the PT fails, because he is the chosen one. He is Jesus from the very beginning, being immaculately conceived and pumped full of midichlorians. I'm normally against the whole fanboy notion of explaining things in sci-fi films on a technical level (a la Star Trek) - these kinds of things are against the point of real science fiction.

I liken my viewpoint of science fiction to Asimov and Philip K. Dick's. They viewed science fiction as separate from 'sci-fi', which was the modern action-adventure films, with spaceships, aliens and lasers and stuff. They saw a 'true' science fiction as something that was rooted much more in reality. In a science fiction world, typically, the world is the same, bar one major aspect - and this aspect is used as a tool to communicate an idea or theme inherent to humanity. Often it is something small that is exaggerated. It can make you consider your own world. Like in Gattaca, it was about the trial and triumph of an individual who had no reason to succeed - the difference in that world was the prejudice of genetically predisposed "invalids". In Bladerunner, it's the concept of the value of life - what if it's artifical life? And in the Matrix, it's the concept of reality that is altered - and this is used to make the audience question their own ide of perception, even though it has all the wire fu and fantastic action pieces.

Matrix is as science-fiction as you get (well atleast the first one). Star Wars is more of a fantasy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom