• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

May is the 2nd least deadly month of the Iraq war for US troops

Status
Not open for further replies.
First least deadly if you look at the daily rate (Feb. 2004 had 29 days, this month had 31)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080531...deaths_down;_ylt=ArDkuRuMeaagJfwFKLMFXHcUewgF

BAGHDAD - U.S. military deaths plunged in May to the lowest monthly level in more than four years and civilian casualties were down sharply, too, as Iraqi forces assumed the lead in offensives in three cities and a truce with Shiite extremists took hold.

But many Iraqis as well as U.S. officials and private security analysts are uncertain whether the current lull signals a long-term trend or is simply a breathing spell like so many others before.

U.S. commanders also warn the relative peace is fragile because no lasting political agreements have been reached among the Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish communities.

Talks on returning Sunnis to the government broke down this week, and tensions among rival Shiite parties remain high despite a May 11 truce that ended weeks of bloody fighting in Baghdad's Sadr City district.

Iraqis have experienced lulls in the past — notably after the January 2005 elections — only to see violence flare again.

"The security situation is much better than in the past three or four months, and I am making more money now," said Falih Radhi, who runs a food store in eastern Baghdad. "Despite this, I have a feeling that this positive situation won't last long and that violence may come back again."

Nevertheless, the figures for May are encouraging, especially coming as the United States continues withdrawing the nearly 30,000 reinforcements that President Bush sent to Iraq early last year to curb the wave of Shiite-Sunni slaughter.

All five of the "surge brigades" rushed to Iraq last year will be gone by July, lowering the troop strength to about 140,000, U.S. officials say. There are currently about 155,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

At least 21 American troopers were killed in May — four in non-hostile incidents. That's one more than the lowest monthly figure of the war set in February 2004.

Meanwhile, Iraqi deaths were down, too.

At least 522 Iraqi civilians and security troopers were killed during the month, according to figures compiled by The Associated Press from Iraqi police and military reports. That's down sharply from April's figure of 1,080 and the lowest monthly total this year, according to the AP count.


Last Sunday, military spokesman Rear Adm. Patrick Driscoll said the number of attacks in the previous week fell to a level "not seen since March 2004," although he did not give specific figures.

At the same time, Iraqi forces have taken the lead in offensives against the Sunni extremist al-Qaida in Iraq in the northern city of Mosul and against Shiite militiamen in Baghdad and Basra in the south.

U.S. and coalition forces assumed a support role in the three offensives, enabling them to avoid higher casualties which would have been expected had they been doing all the fighting.

With the trends looking positive, the top American commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, said in Washington last week that he is likely to recommend further troop cuts in Iraq but won't promise more details until fall — as the U.S. presidential election campaign is approaching its climax.

But U.S. officials and private security analysts warn against rapid withdrawals and optimistic forecasts.

Former Pentagon analyst Anthony Cordesman wrote this week that despite some improvements among Iraqi forces, both Iraqi and U.S. officials continue "to sharply exaggerate the real-world readiness" of the country's army and police.

Petraeus himself said it's unlikely that Iraqi security forces can take the lead in all 18 provinces this year, as was recently predicted by the Pentagon.

"The overall trend in Iraq is positive, but we should be skeptical about overly optimistic assessments that we've 'turned the corner' in Iraq," said Eric Rosenbach of the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs and a former staffer of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

"It's more appropriate to say that we have a long road ahead of us rather than we've turned the corner."

The reason for such caution is that many of the issues that contributed to the Iraq conflict remain unresolved — notably how the various ethnic and religious groups will share power.

Last August, the largest Sunni Arab political bloc pulled out of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's Cabinet, complaining it wasn't getting enough say in decision-making. Talks on a Sunni return broke down this week.

In the north, tensions between Arabs and Kurds are smoldering, especially in key cities such as Kirkuk and Mosul. Mohanad Hazim, a schoolteacher in Mosul, warned that the presence of Kurdish soldiers in his city "is a matter of great worry and concern" among his fellow Arabs.

Moreover, armed groups — including al-Qaida — have been bloodied but not crushed.

About half the U.S. deaths in May occurred in Sunni areas, showing that Sunni insurgents remain active, even though thousands of Sunnis have agreed to work with the Shiite-dominated government.

Top leaders of Shiite militant groups that fought the Americans and Iraqis for weeks in Sadr City have escaped, the U.S. military says, presumably to regroup and fight again.

"If you look at it in terms of a video recorder, a lot of the groups have pushed pause, but that's not to say they can't push play again," said Nathan Freier, an analyst at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

That possibility is greatest within the major Shiite community, where anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is competing for power against parties that have worked with the United States while maintaining ties to Iran.

Al-Sadr declared a cease-fire last August which largely held until late March, when two rival Shiite parties encouraged the government to move against Shiite militias in Basra.

That triggered an uprising that spread across the Shiite south to Baghdad, where militiamen rocketed the U.S.-protected Green Zone daily.

Fighting ended after Shiite mediation, some facilitated by Iran. The deals enabled Iraqi security forces to extend control in former militia strongholds of both Baghdad and Basra.

But the March fighting broke out because al-Sadr believed his Shiite rivals were trying to weaken his movement before provincial elections this fall.

Those elections are now expected to slip one month to November, and already many Sadrists are complaining that their rivals are again using the truce to arrest and intimidate their followers.

"If some of these constituencies don't get what they want at a rate they find acceptable, they will increase resistance," Freier said. "This is a window of opportunity that will be squandered or capitalized on. And it's in the hands of the Iraqis to capitalize on it."
 
Tamanon said:
Is this really good news?

Yay for less casualties, can't wait until next year when they start coming home.

How is this not good news? The better the security situation, the sooner we can go home. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

Although we'll likely always keep a small contingent there (like we did in Europe after WW 2).
 

harSon

Banned
ComputerNerd said:
How is this not good news? The better the security situation, the sooner we can go home. Is it really that hard to comprehend?

Although we'll likely always keep a small contingent there (like we did in Europe after WW 2).

No, we aren't going to make an attempt to exit Iraq until Republicans leave the White House.
 
harSon said:
No, we aren't going to make an attempt to exit Iraq until Republicans leave the White House.

Well, we aren't going to get up and leave in one day. It'll be gradual, depending on the situation on the ground.

With the trends looking positive, the top American commander in Iraq, Gen. David Petraeus, said in Washington last week that he is likely to recommend further troop cuts in Iraq but won't promise more details until fall — as the U.S. presidential election campaign is approaching its climax.

You guys really do want Iraq to turn in a genocidal quagmire, don't you? That's what all these posts sound like. If you'd have had your way, we'd have left years ago, and millions would be dead.
 

Tamanon

Banned
ComputerNerd said:
Well, we aren't going to get up and leave in one day. It'll be gradual, depending on the situation on the ground.



You guys really do want Iraq to turn in a genocidal quagmire, don't you? That's what all these posts sound like. If you'd have had your way, we'd have left years ago, and millions would be dead.

So when can we leave? When will it not turn into a "genocidal quagmire" as you're so sure it would? What determines that they are safe?
 

Gaborn

Member
ComputerNerd said:
Well, we aren't going to get up and leave in one day. It'll be gradual, depending on the situation on the ground.

Like how much longer it takes to build our embassy?
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Iraqis have experienced lulls in the past — notably after the January 2005 elections — only to see violence flare again.
If this sustains itself, then it's good news, but I've seen plenty of months that were some kind of low point only for a following month to reach a high.
 
ComputerNerd said:
You guys really do want Iraq to turn in a genocidal quagmire, don't you? That's what all these posts sound like. If you'd have had your way, we'd have left years ago, and millions would be dead.

To be quite honest, I don't care what happens in Iraq. If we left the day after Mission Accomplished I wouldn't care if Iran invaded and took the shit hole over
 
Tamanon said:
So when can we leave? When will it not turn into a "genocidal quagmire" as you're so sure it would? What determines that they are safe?

We'll see what Patreaus says this Fall. The goal is to not let the security gains disappear.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
It's hard to be that jubilant when the article repeately emphasizes that this is only the calm before the storm :/
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
To be quite honest, I don't care what happens in Iraq. If we left the day after Mission Accomplished I wouldn't care if Iran invaded and took the shit hole over

Oh yeah, that would have really helped our security situation in the Middle East.
 
grandjedi6 said:
It's hard to be that jubilant when the article repeately emphasizes that this is only the calm before the storm :/

It's the article writer's bias to turn everything positive about the war into a negative. It's really easy to see that in this article.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
ComputerNerd said:
Oh yeah, that would have really helped our security situation in the Middle East.

Well invading Iraq in the first place pretty much fucked ourselves over anyway

ComputerNerd said:
It's the article writer's bias to turn everything positive about the war into a negative. It's really easy to see that in this article.

I know that, but its also the government's bias to turn any amount of deaths into a positive. The truth is likely inbetween
 

Gaborn

Member
ComputerNerd said:
Oh yeah, that would have really helped our security situation in the Middle East.

Considering the large Shia population of Iraq how exactly do you propose to prevent Iran from getting closer and closer to Iraq when we eventually do pull out?
 
only reason there are less casualties is because they are using more air power. there is still plenty of violence in the country and, millions displaced. mahdy army is still around and so is the badr corps and so is the peshmerga.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Gaborn said:
Considering the large Shia population of Iraq how exactly do you propose to prevent Iran from getting closer and closer to Iraq when we eventually do pull out?

Democracy is actually probably the worst thing we could try and install there. Break the Shield of the Arabs then let a sectarian group influence elections.
 
grandjedi6 said:
Well invading Iraq in the first place pretty much fucked ourselves over anyway



I know that, but its also the government's bias to turn any amount of deaths into a positive. The truth is likely inbetween

The government assessments on Iraq when the insurgency was at its highest wasn't positive at all. The military even called Anbar Province "lost".

Luckily they were wrong.
 
Well this thread went down hill pretty fast. :S

Well what can people say that is not the following:

"Gee, errr, lets hope we see a general downward trend in violence over the coming months and some political roadblocks dismantled, so we can begin drawing up plans for a lasting peace and stable government. PS we should not be there in the first place kthxbye."

@ComputerNerd: Your second post and fourth in the thread are just plain baiting you naughty boy.


I wonder what the Iranian response to a drastic lowering of troop numbers over the coming years will be if we achieve a lasting peace / stable government. Even if we do not I wonder how it is all going to pan out, especially wrt Iran and her interests within the region.
 
ComputerNerd said:
Oh yeah, that would have really helped our security situation in the Middle East.

what would have helped is not invade in the first place. that really would have helped. it wouldnt have fractured the middle east like it is today.
 

Gaborn

Member
Tamanon said:
Democracy is actually probably the worst thing we could try and install there. Break the Shield of the Arabs then let a sectarian group influence elections.

Absolutely, in national security terms all we're doing is making it much easier for Iran, and for Iran to do it in such a way that we just end up looking worse and they get portrayed as the great saviors of the country.
 
ComputerNerd said:
The government assessments on Iraq when the insurgency was at its highest wasn't positive at all. The military even called Anbar Province "lost".

Luckily they were wrong.

Meh, we would have regained control at some point it was just a matter of time and casualties IMO.
 
evil solrac v3.0 said:
only reason there are less casualties is because they are using more air power. there is still plenty of violence in the country and, millions displaced. mahdy army is still around and so is the badr corps and so is the peshmerga.

Well, if we want to get technical, one major factor in the decline in US troop deaths is the Iraqi military taking the front lines. They took the front lines in the offensives in Basra, Sadr City, and Mosul. And the security situation in all 3 areas are much better than they were last month. Iraqi troop deaths also have declined to about a quarter of what they were.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
We've already given the middle east evidence that everything al-qaeda says is right and a whole generation of middle easterns have a horrible view of the US. The best thing we can do now is get out of there asap. The longer we stay in the Middle East, the worse our relations get with the area. If we leave, start providing aid for the area and attempt to repair our standing, maybe we can try again with the next generation
 

Tamanon

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
We've already given the middle east evidence that everything al-qaeda says is right and a whole generation of middle easterns have a horrible view of the US. The best thing we can do now is get out of there asap. The longer we stay in the Middle East, the worse our relations get with the area. If we leave, start providing aid for the area and attempt to repair our standing, maybe we can try again with the next generation

Gitmo and Abu Graib ruined our reputation over there on top of the invasion. Probably set us back decades in relations.
 

Fuzz Rez

Banned
Hopefully this is going to last but in the end US can't leave Iraq in a while. They disturped things there so badly that it will cause more damage if they leave now. It's sad but it really seems that troops have to stay there a lot longer (Maybe even 10 years).
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Tamanon said:
Gitmo and Abu Graib ruined our reputation over there on top of the invasion. Probably set us back decades in relations.

I'm dumbfounded on how the Bush adminstration knew exactly what al-qaeda propaganted and yet still played right into their hands

Fuzz Rez said:
Hopefully this is going to last but in the end US can't leave Iraq in a while. They disturped things there so badly that it will cause more damage if they leave now. It's sad but it really seems that troops have to stay there a lot longer (Maybe even 10 years).

Just staying there messes up more things than anything else we could do. We have stained hands now and the more we touch the middle east, the more we mess up.

We've been trying to play this little game of "Fix the middle east" for decades now, but the only result is the situation getting worse and worse. Plus our constant use of military means only hurts our ability as a 3rd party negotiator
 
grandjedi6 said:
I'm dumbfounded on how the Bush adminstration knew exactly what al-qaeda propaganted and yet still played right into their hands

It looks like plain arrogance to me. It's no mystery.
 
grandjedi6 said:
We've already given the middle east evidence that everything al-qaeda says is right and a whole generation of middle easterns have a horrible view of the US. The best thing we can do now is get out of there asap. The longer we stay in the Middle East, the worse our relations get with the area. If we leave, start providing aid for the area and attempt to repair our standing, maybe we can try again with the next generation

Middle Easterners don't like Al Queda.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24885150/

U.S. cites gains against bin Laden's movement
Al-Qaeda is facing setbacks globally, according to CIA chief

Less than a year after his agency warned of new threats from a resurgent al-Qaeda, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden now portrays the terrorist movement as essentially defeated in Iraq and Saudi Arabia and on the defensive throughout much of the rest of the world, including in its presumed haven along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

In a strikingly upbeat assessment, the CIA chief cited major gains against al-Qaeda's allies in the Middle East and an increasingly successful campaign to destabilize the group's core leadership.

While cautioning that al-Qaeda remains a serious threat, Hayden said Osama bin Laden is losing the battle for hearts and minds in the Islamic world and has largely forfeited his ability to exploit the Iraq war to recruit adherents. Two years ago, a CIA study concluded that the U.S.-led war had become a propaganda and marketing bonanza for al-Qaeda, generating cash donations and legions of volunteers.

All that has changed, Hayden said in an interview with The Washington Post this week that coincided with the start of his third year at the helm of the CIA.


"On balance, we are doing pretty well," he said, ticking down a list of accomplishments: "Near strategic defeat of al-Qaeda in Iraq. Near strategic defeat for al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia. Significant setbacks for al-Qaeda globally — and here I'm going to use the word 'ideologically' — as a lot of the Islamic world pushes back on their form of Islam," he said.

'Own worst enemy'
The sense of shifting tides in the terrorism fight is shared by a number of terrorism experts, though some caution that it is too early to tell whether the gains are permanent. Some credit Hayden and other U.S. intelligence leaders for going on the offensive against al-Qaeda in the area along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, where the tempo of Predator strikes has dramatically increased from previous years. But analysts say the United States has caught some breaks in the past year, benefiting from improved conditions in Iraq, as well as strategic blunders by al-Qaeda that have cut into its support base.

"One of the lessons we can draw from the past two years is that al-Qaeda is its own worst enemy," said Robert Grenier, a former top CIA counterterrorism official who is now managing director of Kroll, a risk consulting firm. "Where they have succeeded initially, they very quickly discredit themselves."

Others warned that al-Qaeda remains capable of catastrophic attacks and may be even more determined to stage a major strike to prove its relevance. "Al-Qaeda's obituary has been written far too often in the past few years for anyone to declare victory," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University. "I agree that there has been progress. But we're indisputably up against a very resilient and implacable enemy."

A landmark study last August by the 16 U.S. intelligence agencies described the Afghanistan-Pakistan border area as a de facto al-Qaeda haven in which terrorist leaders were reorganizing for attacks against the West. But Hayden said counterterrorism successes extend even to that lawless region. Although he would not discuss CIA operations in the area, U.S. intelligence agencies have carried out several attacks there since January, using unmanned Predator aircraft for surgical strikes against al-Qaeda and Taliban safe houses.

But terrorism experts note the lack of success in the U.S. effort to capture bin Laden and his top deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri. Intelligence officials say they think both are living in the Pakistan-Afghanistan tribal area in locations known only to a few top aides. Hayden said capturing or killing the pair remains a top priority, though he noted the difficulties in finding them in a rugged, remote region where the U.S. military is officially forbidden to operate.

Apprehension
The Bush administration has been watching political developments in Pakistan with apprehension, worried that the country's newly elected leadership will not be as tolerant of occasional unilateral U.S. strikes against al-Qaeda as was the government of President Pervez Musharraf, a close ally in the U.S. fight against terrorism.

Hayden declined to discuss what agreements, if any, have been brokered with Pakistan's new leaders, but he said, "We're comfortable with the authorities we have."

Since the start of the year, he said, al-Qaeda's global leadership has lost three senior officers, including two who succumbed "to violence," an apparent reference to Predator strikes that killed terrorist leaders Abu Laith al-Libi and Abu Sulayman al-Jazairi in Pakistan. He also cited a successful blow against "training activity" in the region but offered no details. "Those are the kinds of things that delay and disrupt al-Qaeda's planning," Hayden said.

Growing complacency?
Despite the optimistic outlook, he said he is concerned that the progress against al-Qaeda could be halted or reversed because of what he considers growing complacency and a return to the mind-set that existed before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

"We remain worried, and frankly, I wonder why some other people aren't worried, too," he said. His concern stems in part from improved intelligence-gathering that has bolstered the CIA's understanding of al-Qaeda's intent, he said.

"The fact that we have kept [Americans] safe for pushing seven years now has got them back into the state of mind where 'safe' is normal," he said. "Our view is: Safe is hard-won, every 24 hours."

Hayden, who has previously highlighted a gulf between Washington and its European allies on how to battle terrorism, said he is troubled that Congress and many in the media are "focused less on the threat and more on the tactics the nation has chosen to deal with the threat" — a reference to controversial CIA interrogation techniques approved by Hayden's predecessors.

"The center line of the national discussion has moved, and in our business, our center line is more shaped by the reality of the threat," Hayden said.

On Iraq, he said he is encouraged not only by U.S. success against al-Qaeda's affiliates there, but also by what he described as the steadily rising competence of the Iraqi military and a growing popular antipathy toward jihadism.

"Despite this 'cause célebrè' phenomenon, fundamentally no one really liked al-Qaeda's vision of the future," Hayden said. As a result, the insurgency is viewed locally as "more and more a war of al-Qaeda against Iraqis," he said. Hayden specifically cited the recent writings of prominent Sunni clerics — including some who used to support al-Qaeda — criticizing the group for its indiscriminant killing of Muslim civilians.

Iranian interference
While al-Qaeda misplayed its hand with gruesome attacks on Iraqi civilians, Hayden said, U.S. military commanders and intelligence officials deserve some of the credit for the shift, because they "created the circumstances" for it by building strategic alliances with Sunni and Shiite factions, he said.

Hayden warned, however, that progress in Iraq is being undermined by increasing interference by Iran, which he accused of supplying weapons, training and financial assistance to anti-U.S. insurgents. While declining to endorse any particular strategy for dealing with Iran, he described the threat in stark terms.

"It is the policy of the Iranian government, approved at the highest levels of that government, to facilitate the killing of American and other coalition forces in Iraq. Period," he said.
 

Fuzz Rez

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Just staying there messes up more things than anything else we could do. We have stained hands now and the more we touch the middle east, the more we mess up.

I dunno, Iraq is only few steps away from "civil war" and US-army presence is keeping things in some kind of order down there.

If US leaves Iraq and civil war breaks out the outcome will be millions of corpses. And everyone will blame US of that.

Stay or leave, either way there is now love for US.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Fuzz Rez said:
I dunno, Iraq is only few steps away from "civil war" and US-army presence is keeping things in some kind of order down there.

If US leaves Iraq and civil war breaks out the outcome will be millions of corpses. And every one will blame US of that.

Stay or leave, either way there is now love for US.

Just by being there we are pissing off the rest of the region. Just like when we were pissing off people by just having a base in Saudi Arabia. I don't expect us to simply leave in one day but we are not the ones who can help this situation anymore. Give Iraq to a UN group, to Iraq themselves or to some other coilition. None of those choices are ideal but neither is us staying there for too much longer
 
grandjedi6 said:
Well the majority of Middle Easterners have never like al-qaeda and Saudi Arabia turned their back on them years ago. But that doesn't change the fact that we played into their hands and we critically hurt our own reputation there

I don't really see our reputation being hurt in the Middle East by staying there longer. If there's another Abu Ghraib, sure. But just by staying in Iraq I don't think would hurt things more than they currently are.
 

Fuzz Rez

Banned
grandjedi6 said:
Just by being there we are pissing off the rest of the region. Just like when we were pissing off people by just having a base in Saudi Arabia. I don't expect us to simply leave in one day but we are not the ones who can help this situation anymore. Give Iraq to a UN group, to Iraq themselves or to some other coilition. None of those choices are ideal but neither is us staying there for too much longer

UN won't send troops there to die :( And Iraq is not ready to handel the situation down there.

Even if UN would send troops there it wouldn't change anything. Well except that dead soliders would be from Europe and not from US.

I know US can't stay there forever but at the moment it's the only force that can keep things calm as they are now (not very calm, I know).
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
ComputerNerd said:
I don't really see our reputation being hurt in the Middle East by staying there longer. If there's another Abu Ghraib, sure. But just by staying in Iraq I don't think would hurt things more than they currently are.

They don't like us, we invaded Iraq which essentially played into other's fears that we would invade them too, Iraq civilians are still dying by large numbers (even if its not our fault we'll get the blame), we can't negotiate properly with other middle eastern counties as long as we occupy Iraq, and finally, Iraq themselves want us out. We are the unwanted guest who won't get the hint that the party ended 5 hours ago. Even though we might be holding the ceiling up that still doesn't mean the occupants want us to
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Fuzz Rez said:
UN won't send troops there to die :( And Iraq is not ready to handel the situation down there.

Even if UN would send troops there it wouldn't change anything. Well except that dead soliders would be from Europe and not from US.

I know US can't stay there forever but at the moment it's the only force that can keep things calm as they are now (not very calm, I know).

I know, I know. There is no good decision in this situation. The second we invaded Iraq we were stuck in the trap for a good long time :/

But still, even if we have to stay there for a while longer, it can't be indefinite. By claiming that we can/need to stay there for an undesinated time we're just playing into fears of infinite control. Timetables would help even if we don't remove all the troops, but of course.... :/
 
grandjedi6 said:
They don't like us, we invaded Iraq which essentially played into other's fears that we would invade them too, Iraq civilians are still dying by large numbers (even if its not our fault we'll get the blame), we can't negotiate properly with other middle eastern counties as long as we occupy Iraq, and finally, Iraq themselves want us out. We are the unwanted guest who won't get the hint that the party ended 5 hours ago. Even though we might be holding the ceiling up that still doesn't mean the occupants want us to

Iraq has not indicated they want us out.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom