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[schuelma]

3rd party games aren't selling particularly well on anything in Japan.
.

Given the userbase I think its fair to say PS3 3rd party games have sold better than Wii 3rd party games. Of course a lot of that has to do with 3rd parties giving a far superior effort on PS3 and having big PS2 franchises appearing early on helping to cultivate some sort of userbase, but it is what it is.

 

[Captain Smoker]

Do you think that Wagamama Fasion could reach the million this year?

It has 735.000 units currently. :lol


Omg, that would be the 26th million seller for the NDS. xD xD


27th = Dragon Quest VI
28th = Dragon Quest IX
29th = ?



And Flash Focus managed 209.812 units last year [939.125 as of 12/28/2008], could also reach the million. xD

 

[markatisu]

Given the userbase I think its fair to say PS3 3rd party games have sold better than Wii 3rd party games. Of course a lot of that has to do with 3rd parties giving a far superior effort on PS3 and having big PS2 franchises appearing early on helping to cultivate some sort of userbase, but it is what it is.

By the same token couldnt that also be because there are not many (if any) 1st party PS3 games that sell very well?

 

[Spiegel]

Well, that's not correct. Wii games by Nintendo sell for 6.800 Yen including tax. That's for games like Zelda. Wii Sports is 4.800 Yen or 5.800 (Wario Ware). A Lot of third parties stick to this pricing scheme. 7140Yen is certainly expensive.

7140Y is expensive but it's also the usual price for non-budget third party games on PS2/Wii. Comparable games on 360/PS3 cost more.

Yes, first party games are cheaper. That's also the norm for all the consoles.

 

[SilverLunar]

7140Y is expensive but it's also the usual price for non-budget third party games on PS2/Wii. Comparable games on 360/PS3 cost more.

Yes, first party games are cheaper. That's also the norm for all the consoles.

If this is true then is completly the oppesite where i live.
1st party games sell for 65$ the norm 3rd party games are 60$, buying legit games here is a pain

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Given the userbase I think its fair to say PS3 3rd party games have sold better than Wii 3rd party games. Of course a lot of that has to do with 3rd parties giving a far superior effort on PS3 and having big PS2 franchises appearing early on helping to cultivate some sort of userbase, but it is what it is.

I agree with this but again as the bolded states you are comparing the Versus series (Tatsunoko vs Capcom) to the Street Fighter series (Street Fighter IV), Dynasty Warriors VI (a mainline of the Dynasty Warriors series) vs Samurai Warriors Katana (a spin-off of the spin-off series of Dynasty Warriors), etc.

It's just a really unfair comparison (though you have already stated this).

I'm sure if the Wii received the big games with as big as a marketing push as the PS3 then we'd see some nice sales as demostrated with Tatiko and the Tales of Symphonia spin-off (yeah it's a spin-off but a spin-off of one of the more popular Tales games).

 

[schuelma]

By the same token couldnt that also be because there are not many (if any) 1st party PS3 games that sell very well?

Absolutely. Don't think anyone is arguing that Sony 1st party sales/efforts are at all impressive.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Something interesting I didn't know about Tenchu IV is that the game is broken into linear sub-sections with a few enemies and it's not an "open ended" game like the previous Tenchu's. It's more like a Manhunt (killing ninjas in corridors) than a Tenchu.

Maybe this has something to do with the low sales of the Wii/PSP versions?

...only if you believe that this was a major turn-off for potential buyers, and that they were aware of it before the game launched. IIRC, the gamers who picked it up here at GAF quickly reported the change to the game structure, but no-one following the pre-launch info trickle realised it was going to be different, and I doubt the Japanese audience did either.

I'd imagine coming on the heels of system-hopping flops like Tenchu Z, Tenchu DS and the declining sales of the franchise over the past 5 years (250k to 140k for the last two PS2 games, then around 70k for Shinobi Taizen) has more to do with the poor sales of Tenchu 4.

 

[schuelma]

I'd imagine coming on the heels of system-hopping flops like Tenchu Z, Tenchu DS and the declining sales of the franchise over the past 5 years (250k to 140k for the last two PS2 games, then around 70k for Shinobi Taizen) has more to do with the poor sales of Tenchu 4.

Agree. Can we take this one off the "let's blame the Wii userbase for this 3rd party bomb" pile, or should we wait until Tenchu 5 bombs on 360.

 

[BishopLamont]

Do you think that Wagamama Fasion could reach the million this year?

It has 735.000 units currently. :lol


Omg, that would be the 26th million seller for the NDS. xD xD


27th = Dragon Quest VI
28th = Dragon Quest IX
29th = ?



And Flash Focus managed 209.812 units last year [939.125 as of 12/28/2008], could also reach the million. xD

Flash Focus is definitely going to pass the million mark, Wagamama should too since it's legs are pretty good, hell I'll even shoot for the sky and say it'll pass the 2 million mark.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Agree. Can we take this one off the "let's blame the Wii userbase for this 3rd party bomb" pile, or should we wait until Tenchu 5 bombs on 360.

Is Tenchu 5 actually coming to the 360? I thought that was another 2chan joke rumour posted for the benefit of over-eager GAFers?

 

[schuelma]

Is Tenchu 5 actually coming to the 360? I thought that was another 2chan joke rumour posted for the benefit of over-eager GAFers?

Yeah I was just jokin around.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Yeah I was just jokin around.

Heh. I wondered what that rush of air over my head was when I hit submit...

 

[markatisu]

Absolutely. Don't think anyone is arguing that Sony 1st party sales/efforts are at all impressive.

No but what i was getting at is there is an absence of 1st party games, which would imply that all people have to buy is 3rd party games = more 3rd party sales (better sales)

 

[Jonnyram]

I'm sure if the Wii received the big games with as big as a marketing push as the PS3 then we'd see some nice sales as demostrated with Tatiko and the Tales of Symphonia spin-off (yeah it's a spin-off but a spin-off of one of the more popular Tales games).

You are asking for the impossible.

PS3 & 360 are an evolution of hardware, and attract the mainline sequels. Wii is a sidestep--the same power as last gen hardware, but with a new control method.

What possible motivation would a publisher have to release a game on Wii rather than PS2? All the games you are comparing were released as spin-offs because they have new controls. Were a game to have the typical joypad control scheme, it would be far better to release it on the PS2 than Wii, as that has a proven installed userbase.

 

[Link]

You are asking for the impossible.

PS3 & 360 are an evolution of hardware, and attract the mainline sequels. Wii is a sidestep--the same power as last gen hardware, but with a new control method.

What possible motivation would a publisher have to release a game on Wii rather than PS2? All the games you are comparing were released as spin-offs because they have new controls. Were a game to have the typical joypad control scheme, it would be far better to release it on the PS2 than Wii, as that has a proven installed userbase.

Are you really arguing this? I mean, heck, using that logic, publishers should never move on to new hardware ever.

 

[HK-47]

You are asking for the impossible.

PS3 & 360 are an evolution of hardware, and attract the mainline sequels. Wii is a sidestep--the same power as last gen hardware, but with a new control method.

What possible motivation would a publisher have to release a game on Wii rather than PS2? All the games you are comparing were released as spin-offs because they have new controls. Were a game to have the typical joypad control scheme, it would be far better to release it on the PS2 than Wii, as that has a proven installed userbase.

True but PS2 is dying.

 

[Jonnyram]

Are you really arguing this? I mean, heck, using that logic, publishers should never move on to new hardware ever.

What!? Moving to new hardware is typically done because of jumps in hardware tech - better graphics, sound, storage. Why do you think FFXIII was moved to PS3? Moving from PS2/GC to Wii gives you a new control option, but graphics, sound and storage don't change.

True but PS2 is dying.

Hardware has reached saturation. It doesn't need to keep selling hardware in order to support new software. Look at sales of recent Atlus releases for evidence of this.

 

[Link]

What!? Moving to new hardware is typically done because of jumps in hardware tech - better graphics, sound, storage. Why do you think FFXIII was moved to PS3? Moving from PS2/GC to Wii gives you a new control option, but graphics, sound and storage don't change.

All that's really moot (as Wii sales prove). You need to move development to the next generation eventually.

 

[HK-47]

Are you really arguing this? I mean, heck, using that logic, publishers should never move on to new hardware ever.

He's also saying that not all franchises work well with the Wiimote, it doesnt have a built traditional control method that works well with the old standards, like the DS. So they send the spinoffs to Wii.

 

[Link]

He's also saying that not all franchises work well with the Wiimote, it doesnt have a built traditional control method that works well with the old standards, like the DS. So they send the spinoffs to Wii.

Yeah, how's that working out for them?

 

[schuelma]

You are asking for the impossible.

PS3 & 360 are an evolution of hardware, and attract the mainline sequels. Wii is a sidestep--the same power as last gen hardware, but with a new control method.
.

Is this logic really true in Japan though?

I mean, I think you're pretty much spot on when talking about Western development, but in Japan you have DS getting DQ9 for goodness sakes. You have DS/PSP getting the majority of announcements week after week. You have Wii getting Monster Hunter 3 and Samurai Warriors 3.

I see the big franchises that sell well worldwide staying on PS3/360 (stuff like DMC4), but for Japanese centric franchises it seems likely to me they will be going to an underpowered system of some sort, whether its Wii, PSP, or DS.

 

[HK-47]

Yeah, how's that working out for them?

Probably the same as if they shoehorned in the Wiimote. These companies would have been struggling this gen whether the Wii existed or not

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

What!? Moving to new hardware is typically done because of jumps in hardware tech - better graphics, sound, storage. Why do you think FFXIII was moved to PS3? Moving from PS2/GC to Wii gives you a new control option, but graphics, sound and storage don't change.

Uh, no. Moving to new hardware is typically done because of a migrating audience. In the past, you followed the audience that followed the new first party games or (in the case of launch games) you pre-empted their move by moving yourself.

That's what pubs were expecting to happen this gen via PS2 -> PS3. But it didn't exactly happen this way.

 

[HK-47]

Is this logic really true in Japan though?

I mean, I think you're pretty much spot on when talking about Western development, but in Japan you have DS getting DQ9 for goodness sakes. You have DS/PSP getting the majority of announcements week after week. You have Wii getting Monster Hunter 3 and Samurai Warriors 3.

I see the big franchises that sell well worldwide staying on PS3/360 (stuff like DMC4), but for Japanese centric franchises it seems likely to me they will be going to an underpowered system of some sort, whether its Wii, PSP, or DS.

More like just the handhelds. Monster Hunter is a safe risk cause the PSP version will eat any failure of the Wii version. Mainline DQ will sell no matter the system. Has Wii shown the positive growth of traditional Japanese genres like the RPG that the DS has? I really dont think so. And I thinks thats because the controls on DS are more flexible. Touch controls are nice but there is no push toward needing them. Same with the dual screen.

 

[schuelma]

More like just the handhelds. Monster Hunter is a safe risk cause the PSP version will eat any failure of the Wii version. .

Ok, but by Jonnyram's logic Capcom would have just released it on PS2, right?

Has Wii shown the positive growth of traditional Japanese genres like the RPG that the DS has? I really dont think so. And I thinks thats because the controls on DS are more flexible. Touch controls are nice but there is no push toward needing them. Same with the dual screen.

Ehh, I think it has more to do with 3rd parties, namely SE, just building a RPG market. No one has really tried on the Wii. I don't think controls have much to do with it. Wii can play RPG's just fine.

 

[Jonnyram]

Ok, but by Jonnyram's logic Capcom would have just released it on PS2, right?

Well the Wii's control scheme offers benefits to Monster Hunter gameplay. And the Wii certainly has a more organised online plan than the PS2. But I am certain the game will sell nowhere near as much as the PSP version either way.

The popularity of handhelds is nothing new in Japan, but these days, thanks to improved tech, it is becoming more apparent.

Uh, no. Moving to new hardware is typically done because of a migrating audience. In the past, you followed the audience that followed the new first party games or (in the case of launch games) you pre-empted their move by moving yourself.

That doesn't explain why FFXIII moved to PS3. The audience has not migrated, after all.

 

[schuelma]

Well the Wii's control scheme offers benefits to Monster Hunter gameplay..

Really? My impression was that waggle was very limited and is definitely not the main selling point of the game. Hell the MH G port is all Classic Controller.

 

[EDarkness]

Probably the same as if they shoehorned in the Wiimote. These companies would have been struggling this gen whether the Wii existed or not

I don't buy that. The Wii can play those games just fine. New control or no. The problem is no one is even trying to make those games. If there were crazy amounts of big name blockbusters announced for the Wii...same as was done with the PS2 and to some extent the PS3, then I think there would be a big enough "core" userbase to do something there. But when the all but dead 360 is getting big name RPGs and such while the Wii (market leader) is getting shovelware and overall low quality games, something is seriously wrong.

I could understand publishers and game makers if this strategy was working, but it isn't. All it's doing is really fragmenting the userbase even more than it already is. Unfortunately for Nintendo, the lack of a solid "core" Wii user, bad third party support, no blockbuster announcements, and a building bad reputation of the Wii with those audiences is hurting.

That doesn't explain why FFXIII moved to PS3. The audience has not migrated, after all.

That's an easy answer. Square (and the rest of the world for that matter) figured people would migrate to the PS3 just as they moved from the PS1. The precedent was there, but that's not how it worked out in practice. They bet the PS3 would win, but as we know now, they bet on the wrong horse.

Well the Wii's control scheme offers benefits to Monster Hunter gameplay.

Not really. The game doesn't really benefit at all being on the Wii. And in my opinion, this is so they can port it easier if something happens.

 

[t3nmilez]

Aye, the classic controller also gives the Wii a comfortable home for traditional games. Yeah, not everyone owns a CC, which is why there are other (usually worse) control modes for those with just the Wiimote. It worked for the PS2 ports and games like TvC...

Actually, does anyone think there is a relation to why games sell worse like that? Maybe people don't want to buy the CC so they don't bother buying the game?

That doesn't explain why FFXIII moved to PS3. The audience has not migrated, after all.

FF13 was announced so long ago though where it made sense to continue the series on the PS3. Perhaps if we had the foresight to know where this gen would end up, things would have been different.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

That doesn't explain why FFXIII moved to PS3. The audience has not migrated, after all.

Yes it does. Square Enix expected their audience to migrate to PS3 and pre-emptively moved their development there. The audience didn't migrate there, for the most part, hence the game going multi plat outside of Japan (there wouldn't have been any point doing so in Japan, the Xbox brand being what it is).

 

[HK-47]

Ok, but by Jonnyram's logic Capcom would have just released it on PS2, right?


Ehh, I think it has more to do with 3rd parties, namely SE, just building a RPG market. No one has really tried on the Wii. I don't think controls have much to do with it. Wii can play RPG's just fine.

Yes but why? Cause devs are just more at ease with the DS. They can use the new stuff but they can also just go GBA style if they want too.

 

[Pureauthor]

Well the Wii's control scheme offers benefits to Monster Hunter gameplay.

What. The day MHThWii was announced the MH players on this site were having aneurysms over the fact that the Wiimote simply could not support the Monster Hunter control scheme.

 

[HK-47]

Ok, but by Jonnyram's logic Capcom would have just released it on PS2, right?

I didnt agree with his PS2 idea. It cant be relied upon. Only the DS can

 

[schuelma]

Yes but why? Cause devs are just more at ease with the DS. They can use the new stuff but they can also just go GBA style if they want too.

I still disagree. Between the CC and the buttons offered by the Wiimote+Nunchuck I think devs wanting traditional controls have more than enough options on the Wii.

 

[Jonnyram]

What. The day MHThWii was announced the MH players on this site were having aneurysms over the fact that the Wiimote simply could not support the Monster Hunter control scheme.

Wiimote control should be better for the ranged weapons at the very least. Maybe other jobs should stick to the CC?

 

[HK-47]

I still disagree. Between the CC and the buttons offered by the Wiimote+Nunchuck I think devs wanting traditional controls have more than enough options on the Wii.

Maybe I'd believe that if the CC was bundled.

 

[markatisu]

Maybe I'd believe that if the CC was bundled.

Well at least for Monter Hunter G for Wii the CC is being bundled as an option, I would suspect MH3 Wii will also have a classic controller bundle as well

 

[HK-47]

Well at least for Monter Hunter G for Wii the CC is being bundled as an option, I would suspect MH3 Wii will also have a classic controller bundle as well

To be honest it should be bundled with the system. A lot of the skepticism about the control scheme would be defeated if it was in your hands from the get go. I actually think Nintendo is making the situation worse with M+. Or they are greedy, which is probably the case. It just remind me a lot of the confusion caused by the multiple SKUs the HD systems push

 

[markatisu]

To be honest it should be bundled with the system. A lot of the skepticism about the control scheme would be defeated if it was in your hands from the get go. I actually think Nintendo is making the situation worse with M+. Or they are greedy, which is probably the case. It just remind me a lot of the confusion caused by the multiple SKUs the HD systems push

Yeah I think they should have bundled a classic controller and 1000 Wii Points that way people could get introduced to Wii Ware and the VC out of the box.

I know so many people who do not realize the Wii even has wireless, much less the fact they can buy old games and new games online

Motion + I think will be fine because people will see it as an evolution of Wii Play and Wii Sports and so a large part of the install base will end up with the adapters

 

[EDarkness]

To be honest it should be bundled with the system. A lot of the skepticism about the control scheme would be defeated if it was in your hands from the get go. I actually think Nintendo is making the situation worse with M+. Or they are greedy, which is probably the case. It just remind me a lot of the confusion caused by the multiple SKUs the HD systems push

Doesn't make any sense. The whole reason people buy the system is because of the motion controls. Now you're saying that uncreative developers should get a pass because they can't figure out how to use them in a way that works? In my opinion, the whole "classic controller" business is just companies being lazy. The whole reason I purchased a Wii was for creative use of motion controls and IR. This is the reason I think Monster Hunter Tri should have simply gone to the PS3. Capcom really isn't doing anything special with it in the way of controls...and that's a shame.

 

[markatisu]

Capcom really isn't doing anything special with it in the way of controls...and that's a shame.

I don't know, the wiimote controls (motion to slam your sword) seems intuitive, I think you should reserve comment till the game actually ships and we can see if they just slapped wiimote controls on

 

[EDarkness]

I don't know, the wiimote controls (motion to slam your sword) seems intuitive, I think you should reserve comment till the game actually ships and we can see if they just slapped wiimote controls on

I'm not disputing this, but from checking it out at TGS last year and the information on the website, I don't see much to be excited about. I guess I wanted a serious use of the remote and more IR control.

 

[Tenbatsu]

I'm not disputing this, but from checking it out at TGS last year and the information on the website, I don't see much to be excited about. I guess I wanted a serious use of the remote and more IR control.

I'm on your side on this. Was pretty happy at first when they put the franchise on the Wii as its opens up new gameplay/controls options. But in order to please the hardcore fans, Capcom rather take the safe route which is a shame. Except for the controls, the new ecosystem feature is rather promising.

 

[test_account]

I haven't seen any price increases on this game in retail or online. At least not in Japan. Maybe for import stores.

Then again it didn't price collapse either which is what a lot of people thought would happen after first week sales were announced.

Seems Capcom shipped the right amount.

Ah ok, thanks for the info! It is good to hear that it seems that Capcom shipped the right amount as you say, so the stores might not end up having to do a price collapse on the game

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

What possible motivation would a publisher have to release a game on Wii rather than PS2?

Increasing Wii software sales, decreasing PS2 software sales--though this is more the case in the west. Of course, multiplatform gets the advantage of both. This leads to the logical conclusion: multiplatform PS2/PSP/PS3/X360 Musou releases?

 

[Jokeropia]

In my eyes, there is very little difference in terms of traditional control methods between the Wiimote + nunchuck combo and a traditional controller split in two. The Wiimote + nunchuck provides you with 10 accessible buttons (A, B, +, -, Z, C and 4 d-pad directions) and a left thumbstick, plus the motion sensor and pointer that can be mapped to actions where they make sense. (The pointer for example fills in for the lack of a right thumbstick for some genres.)

This is supported IMO by the fact that both Twilight Princess and Resident Evil 4, with control schemes made for the Gamecube, have better controls on Wii. RE4 goes without saying, but for TP I prefer the Wii due to pointer slingshot/bow/hookshot aiming and an extra quickmap item button, which outweighs the lack of complete camera control. (It might not have done so had it not been possible to autocenter the camera and toggle free look.) Motion sword swinging is neither better or worse; sometimes it's annoying and sometimes it's satisfying.)

 

[cvxfreak]

I actually prefer the overall feel of the Wiimote + Nunchuck when playing RE0/REmake as well. Capcom really made those work out.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This isn't Japan-specific, but since this series of threads is the most continuous overall sales discussion and the data it comes from is months-old news I'll put it here.

I didn't think to look at sums before, but I now notice that as of the quarter ending September 2008, Nintendo passed shipment of 200 million home consoles worldwide. As of the quarter ending December 2008, they're just shy of 300 million portable consoles. Put together, the quarter ending December 2008 sees them passing a combined 500 million consoles.

 

[Jokeropia]

Neat.