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[Eteric Rice]

So the concept of re-releases in the future is also a rip off in the same sense, right?

I dunno. I guess I could see it oppositely from how Jonny sees it because I collect Biohazard games, which have a long history of milking through re-releases. Except, Capcom tries to label the initial releases as the definitive versions of the title only to employ a bit of trickery later on. Biohazard CODE: Veronica Incomplete, anyone?

Something like the new (basically the old) Rygar, or Guilty Gear where they just add something extra and charge full price is a rip off.

Now if they do a remake with a lot of effort put into it (FFIII, FFIV), it's not a rip off to me.

 

[dude]

You make Sony look like massive rip offs when you put it like that. :lol

200,000 give or take have bought the game in Japan, not including downloads and when it releases in EU I imagine it will be more of the same there. Sony are doing a real good job pf fucking everyone over here. :lol

Everybody does it in some form if it make you feel any better.

 

[apujanata]

Hmm, since the volume of content argument seems to be picking up some steam, let's look at it from another angle...

Ever heard of shareware? Where you download a product and you can use it as much as you want, often with full functionality, for a limited period of time? Or perhaps you are too young to remember, but when Doom was first released for PC, the entire first chapter was a free demo, and chapters 2 and 3 could be unlocked by purchasing the game. GT5 Prologue not looking like such a hot deal now, is it?

If every copy of Prologue came with a coupon that gave you discount off the final game, that would be perfect. The way it stands now is an absolute rip off. You'll end up paying close to $100 in total, for one game.

IMO, casual will just buy the GT5Prologue version, or just the GT5 version, but not both. Hardcore will buy both. By having both GT5P and GT5, Sony get more sales, compared to releasing just GT5.

As CVXFREAK pointed out, this situation is the same as FFXII and FFXII International Edition, or RE and REirector's Cut (since I am not too familiar with RE games, I might be wrong here). The difference between those versions are small (not too significant), feel more like port with addition, instead of remake. I believe the sama purchase pattern with casual and hardcore applied to that game.

The only difference is the "The Best" or "Platinum" series, which is same game, but with lowered MSRP, released one year or two years after the original, with almost zero enhancement. That version is bought by new market, both hardcore (who might not like that gametype so didn't purchase them at first) and casual (who didn't purchase it because it is too expensive, and not worth it at first).

 

[AnimeTheme]

you speak like people know all that stuff. Poeple don't know shit about anything, when they see FF4 on shelves, they have the same thought they had when they saw FF1 or 2 for PSP: " nice, a newer version of an old game ". we know extra stuff because we do our DAILY research on the internet but people don't care or know about voice acting, cutscenes, or high profile development team members (as commented by ethelred).

You make it sound like NO ONE gives a shit to TV commercials, game magazines or any game info from the Internet, especially when it is such a high-profile and well-known series like Final Fantasy, and the difference between FF4DS and the original FF4 is so great that even a still picture can almost tell you everything.

So explain to me again why FF IVr has so much stronger legs, even in light of Dragon-Questy competition FF IIIr never had, even though it looked like Japan would shun it, initially. Actually, save that explanation for the week when FF IVr passes FF IIIr's LTD sales. It won't be long. I'm not the one who has to be accepting anything here.

Enough stocks (unlike the case of FF3), words of mouth (this looks like an important factor in the case) and the sales pattern of holiday seasons give FF4 legs.

And.... do you seriously think FF4 LTD can pass FF3?

 

[Jonnyram]

So the concept of re-releases in the future is also a rip off in the same sense, right?

I dunno. I guess I could see it oppositely from how Jonny sees it because I collect Biohazard games, which have a long history of milking through re-releases. Except, Capcom tries to label the initial releases as the definitive versions of the title only to employ a bit of trickery later on. Biohazard CODE: Veronica Incomplete, anyone?

It's a thin line... you can't really accuse Capcom of withholding content deliberately right now. It might make good business sense in the long run to do this, but the original release is considered by all to be a full release in its own right. At least the people who buy it and then feel pissed off when the Director's Cut comes out are in the minority. Very few people buying GT5p believe it's the full game.

 

[cvxfreak]

It's a thin line... you can't really accuse Capcom of withholding content deliberately right now. It might make good business sense in the long run to do this, but the original release is considered by all to be a full release in its own right. At least the people who buy it and then feel pissed off when the Director's Cut comes out are in the minority. Very few people buying GT5p believe it's the full game.

Well, Capcom definitely did with CODE: Veronica (all for a bunch of cut-scenes only), and most likely RE4 as well.

Anyway, I see what you mean, and you raise a good point. My point only makes sense if GT5P can undeniably be considered a full game, and apparently it can't be except by die-hard fanboys.

 

[Cheesemeister]

Well, it's past my bedtime. Post the thread for me if the data goes live before I wake up. I can run the proggy later.

 

[Fafalada]

Paying for demo sucks. ... We're talking about it being a subset of the product they intend to release at a later date.

The problem with this reasoning is that every game with a sequel that incorporated old content, a port that added new content, or remakes with expanded graphics, content, gameplay and just about everything else - classifies as a demo.

Sure - some were demos of stuff that came out a decade later - but demos nonetheless (ie. subset of a product that was released at a later date).

I know lots of people view episodic content negatively, but ultimately that's what all the shenanigans with Concepts and Prologues is flirting with rather then trying to sell people demos.
And on that note where was the demo police when new Concepts were releasing like every 3 months...

 

[ethelred]

The problem with this reasoning is that every game with a sequel that incorporated old content, a port that added new content, or remakes with expanded graphics, content, gameplay and just about everything else - classifies as a demo.

Sure - some were demos of stuff that came out a decade later - but demos nonetheless (ie. subset of a product that was released at a later date).

The problem with this reasoning is that it's utterly divorced from reason.

 

[Luckyman]

PS3 discontinued in Japan.

Tokyo, January 10, 2008 - Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. (SCEI) today announced that it would discontinue shipment of both 20GB HDD and 60GB HDD configurations of PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3®) originally launched on November 11th 2006, in the Japanese market after the completion of the final shipment scheduled in January 2008. Upon termination of the shipment, the sales of both models will be limited to stock in the market.

Along with both the increased efforts to improve software development environment and the availability of a more extensive line-up of software titles for PS3, SCEI will vigorously promote the expansion of the PS3 platform by further concentrating on the 40GB HDD (CECHH00 Series) model introduced in November 2007, equipped with the core technology components that make PS3 the most advanced high-definition entertainment system while realizing lower power consumption.

 

[norinrad21]

The problem with this reasoning is that every game with a sequel that incorporated old content, a port that added new content, or remakes with expanded graphics, content, gameplay and just about everything else - classifies as a demo.

Sure - some were demos of stuff that came out a decade later - but demos nonetheless (ie. subset of a product that was released at a later date).

any chance you would port fafRacer to the 360/PS3 with some new cars and charge full price for it?

 

[Lobster]

PS3 discontinued in Japan.

Makes sense I guess. Producing different SKUs has got to have a toll on Sony..The 40GB is also touted as the best version isn't it?

Although if this happens anywhere outside of Japan..chances are slim I'll buy a Ps3 any time this gen..The backwards compatibility is the real deal for me.

 

[Fafalada]

any chance you would port fafRacer to the 360/PS3 with some new cars and charge full price for it?

No.

FFR2... maybe

 

[norinrad21]

No.

FFR2... maybe

Looking forward to it and please do not ignore the wii, you know we will come if you put effort into it

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Not seeing the problem with Prologue.

Sony are creating a product than people are willingly buying; they're not being forced into it. They know it's not a full GT:5, so what's the problem?

 

[Mithos Yggdrasill]

12/24 - 12/30 data is live now:
http://www.m-create.com/ranking/

DSL 218,876
PSP 161,370
Wii 152,209
PS3 52,706
PS2 25,569
Xbox360 8,304
GC 67
GBASP 61
GBM 58
DS 18
GBA 17

Notes:
DQIV passed 1 million
Wii Play passed 2 million
NSMB passed 5 million

It was time.

Famitsu 12/31 - 1/6

DSL 312000
Wii 243000
PSP 189000
PS3 70000
PS2 35000
360 13000

1. Mario Party DS　208000（1441000）
2. Wii Sports　127000（2592000）
3. Wii Play　103000（2093000）
4. Wii Fit　94000（912000）
5. Final Fantasy IV　80000（527000）
6. Mario & Sonic　74000（438000）
7. Dragon Quest IV　70000（1123000）
8. Mario Kart DS　68000（2764000）
9. Mario Party 8　68000（1122000）
10. Super Mario Galaxy　62000（810000）

11. Layton 2　59000（674000）
12. Rune Factory 2　56000 (NEW)
13. Star Ocean First Departure　46000（161000）
14. Pokemon MD2　46000（1302000）
15. SRT OG Gaiden　43000（242000）
16. New Super Marios Bros　43000（5038000）17. Powerful Pro-kun Pocket 10　42000（200000）
18. Monster Hunter Portable 2　42000（1532000）
19. Winning Eleven PS2　37000（582000）
20. ....
21. Animal Crossing　29000（4542000）22. Layton 1　26000（792000）
23. ....
24. Taiko Drum Master DS　24000（303000）
25. More Brain Training　24000（4807000）
26. Flash Focus Vision Training　23000（752000）
27. IE Institute's Kanji Training 2　23000（134000）
28. Ryu ga Gotoku 2 (The Best!)　23000（88000）
29. Resident Evil UC　21000（234000）
30. Gran Turismo 5 Prologue　21000（179000）

5 Mario's titles in the top 10. Holy shit.

With Mario & Sonic's sales this week, it knocks off MinGol5 as the 10th best selling next-gen game. The top ten next-gen games are now the top-ten Wii games.

In order:
1. Wii Sports (Wii)
2. Wii Play (Wii)
3. MP8 (Wii)
4. Wii Fit (Wii)
5. Galaxy (Wii)
6. Zelda (Wii)
7. WarioWare (Wii)
8. Super Paper Mario (Wii)
9. DQS (Wii)
10. Mario and Sonic (Wii)

11. MinGol 5 (PS3)
12. Pokemon Battle Revolution (Wii)
13. Gundam Musou (PS3)
14. DW6 PS3 (PS3)
15. RE:UC (Wii)
16. Big Brain Academy Wii (Wii)
17. PES 2008 (PS3)
18. Blue Dragon (X360)
19. DBZ: BT2 (Wii)
20. Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn (Wii)

Below this point the data starts getting kind of murky to the point that without a top500 yearly chart we won't be able to stratify properly past here, but I'm reasonably certain that the top 20 list is dead on minus a few potential order switches from 15th-20th place.

O_O

 

[.dmc]

5 Mario's titles in the top 10. Holy shit.

Huh. 5 Mario's, 3 Wii-branded titles, a Final Fantasy and a Dragon Quest.

Sucks to be anyone that isn't Nintendo or Squenix.

 

[gconsole]

Huh. 5 Mario's, 3 Wii-branded titles, a Final Fantasy and a Dragon Quest.

Sucks to be anyone that isn't Nintendo or Squenix.

Yes, Capcom should feel sorry for MHP2 that can only reach 20k this week after almost a full year of release!

 

[SovanJedi]

Yes, Capcom should feel sorry for MHP2 that can only reach 20k this week after almost a full year of release!

He was talking about the top 10 next-gen console game sales, which:
1) doesn't cover handheld games, and
B) doesn't deny the fact that other games have sold well in their lifetimes.

 

[.dmc]

i was talking about this weeks top10, which features 5 mario's, 3 'wii' titles and two SE titles..

yeah, I don't deny that everyone is doing pretty fuckin well, so no, it wouldn't 'suck' not to be Nintendo or SE. I just couldn't think of a pithier line

 

[James]

One question for people who know more about this then me, how can monster hunter 2 achieve such sales so long after release if the psp is so badly plagued by piracy?

 

[Lobster]

One question for people who know more about this then me, how can monster hunter 2 achieve such sales so long after release if the psp is so badly plagued by piracy?

Most people in Japan have the decency not to be fuckers.

 

[swerve]

The Piracy thing is a big myth, is why. Used software sales are surely a FAR bigger issue for PSP software, and if that wasn't the case Sony would be working much much harder to combat the pirates.

 

[stilgar]

The Piracy thing is a big myth, is why. Used software sales are surely a FAR bigger issue for PSP software, and if that wasn't the case Sony would be working much much harder to combat the pirates.

No. Piracy is easy, so easy, and it doesn't prevent the product to sell.

 

[antiloop]

You might argue that GT5p has more content - it doesn't matter. We're talking about it being a subset of the product they intend to release at a later date.

Prologue.

 

[Obaid]

did we decide to call wii nextgen or just part of the new consoles?

 

[swerve]

No. Piracy is easy, so easy, and it doesn't prevent the product to sell.

Yes, it's easy. Here in Japan we even have magazines available in every convenience store about how easy.

But I'd comfortably wager that less than 10% of PSP owners in Japan have ever pirated anything on the system. Whereas I reckon, as with other systems, the vast majority of users will have bought used games for it (which don't count towards weekly software sales).

The used market here is tremendously destructive to games that target the 'core gamer' group, which is the reason that PS2, PS3, and PSP games all have very predictable sales curves. First week big spike as the otaku buy them, then the otaku resell them to the stores from 2-10 days later, and the next week sales drop substantially as less enthusiastic gamers buy a mix of new/used version, and then the title drops from view as used titles become the most prominent games in stores.

Nintendo games (and MHP2) have bucked the trend by both offering a great deal of personalisation, and by appealing to groups who don't sell their games back in because they don't chew through games as quickly as the super-core user.

 

[test_account]

Ever heard of shareware? Where you download a product and you can use it as much as you want, often with full functionality, for a limited period of time? Or perhaps you are too young to remember, but when Doom was first released for PC, the entire first chapter was a free demo, and chapters 2 and 3 could be unlocked by purchasing the game. GT5 Prologue not looking like such a hot deal now, is it?

If every copy of Prologue came with a coupon that gave you discount off the final game, that would be perfect. The way it stands now is an absolute rip off. You'll end up paying close to $100 in total, for one game.

The shareware days were great, i miss those days I still have some shareware CDs I particular remember the shareware version of Bio Menace for PC. It was a fair amout of levels you got to play until you got the 5-6 pages of "this is what you get when you buy the full version!" and so on.

But to be fair i wouldnt compare shareware from back then to GT5 today on the same line. Back then it wasnt unusual that only 5-10 people worked on a game so the developement costs were much cheaper. 100+ people were/are working on GT5. The release of Doom 1 and 2 were only about 1 year apart, while GT4 and GT5 were 3-4 years apart, so the development also takes longer time now. Making a game back then wasnt as expencive as it is today.

GT5 is indeed a demo of GT5, but by today's demo "standards" its a huge demo. It has 37 cars, 5 (?) tracks and online multiplayer. Other driving games would maybe have like 2-3 cars, only 1, max 2 tracks and just maybe online multiplayer. By the way, there was a demo of GT5 that was totally free

As long as its clearly stated on the box (or in the store etc.) what you get when you buy GT5 i wouldnt call it a ripoff. If there is no confusion and people know what they get for their money then its their choice to make if they want to buy it or not. However, if the info about what GT5 contains isnt stated clearly enough and people think they think that this is the full GT5, then i would agree that they might feel ripped off.

I also think that GT5 cost abit much compared to what the retail game will cost (i assume it will cost the same as any other PS3 game) and all the extra cars and tracks you get in the retail version. GT4 was 2700 or 2900 yen at launch afaik. Development for GT4 might have been cheaper though, maybe thats why it was cheaper. I agree that including a coupon in GT5 that gives you like $10 of GT5 would be a great idea

 

[farnham]

WOW @ mariokart DS....
and NSMB

 

[Terrell]

WHOA... Chocobo am bomba. So much for Square Enix Wii titles subsidizing FFXIII development costs, I guess.

 

[nli10]

Nintendo games (and MHP2) have bucked the trend by both offering a great deal of personalisation, and by appealing to groups who don't sell their games back in because they don't chew through games as quickly as the super-core user.

I agree, trading in generic driving game 42 was a lot easier psychologically than trading in my Nintendog Roddy...

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Its pretty amusing to see PS3 60GB being sold at a mark-up (by a reseller) in amazon, its at 64800Y. Most PSP models are also suffering the same fate.

Btw, just saw a cover there and I find it really good...

bonus artwork...

The screenshots look pretty good even if they are 3D...someone must pick up Flight-Plan stuff please

 

[Jonnyram]

Huh. 5 Mario's, 3 Wii-branded titles, a Final Fantasy and a Dragon Quest.

Sucks to be anyone that isn't Nintendo or Squenix.

I dunno, Hudson must be pretty happy with the #1 and #9 spots for the busiest week of the year. Also, Sega did alright at #6 too.

 

[gconsole]

He was talking about the top 10 next-gen console game sales, which:
1) doesn't cover handheld games, and .

What next gen console square enix game that is on that top 10 ?

 

[donny2112]

how can monster hunter 2 achieve such sales so long after release if the psp is so badly plagued by piracy?

Isn't wireless play with pirated PSP games kind of iffy? MHP2's longevity could be coming from its multi-player aspect, so if pirated copies don't handle that part of the experience well, retail copies become a much better buy.

 

[Jacobi]

Most people in Japan have the decency not to be fuckers.

Yeah, the people in Japan have honor!

 

[Soule]

I agree, trading in generic driving game 42 was a lot easier psychologically than trading in my Nintendog Roddy...

Yeah but you still traded in little Roddy didn't you? DIDN'T YOU!!... you make me sick.

 

[Yoshi]

What next gen console square enix game that is on that top 10 ?

DQS

 

[Spiegel]

Isn't wireless play with pirated PSP games kind of iffy?

No

 

[Lobster]

WHOA... Chocobo am bomba. So much for Square Enix Wii titles subsidizing FFXIII development costs, I guess.

Its probably hit 100k..man that game bombed hard after its first week..for a 50k start you'd except atleast 150k LTD.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

I dunno, Hudson must be pretty happy with the #1 and #9 spots for the busiest week of the year. Also, Sega did alright at #6 too.

I think they will be happier when they manage to publish one of their actual games to that success instead of being associated through Nintendo in a first-party game.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Huh. 5 Mario's, 3 Wii-branded titles, a Final Fantasy and a Dragon Quest.

Sucks to be anyone that isn't Nintendo or Squenix.

Or Sega, Or Hudson...

Also, funny people were saying the same things about the DS in '04. Funny how the people who are putting effort into their titles are reaping benefit.

 

[test_account]

I wonder if Hudson gets payed pr. copy sold or if they got a fixed amount of money.

 

[Gamecocks625]

Just curious, why hasn't Zelda: PH done as well in Japan? I didn't see it in the charts.

 

[HK-47]

Just curious, why hasn't Zelda: PH done as well in Japan? I didn't see it in the charts.

Best selling Zelda since OoT says it has. Japan isnt big on Zelda

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Just curious, why hasn't Zelda: PH done as well in Japan? I didn't see it in the charts.

It's done something like 800-900k so far and will likely crawl to a million. That's pretty damn good for Zelda, let alone handheld Zelda.

 

[Phife Dawg]

PS3 discontinued in Japan.

Man, that probably means no BC PS3 in Europe as well. Prices for used 60G will skyrocket now as well . Maybe I'll have to look into importing a 80G.

did we decide to call wii nextgen or just part of the new consoles?

Who is "we"? Wii is as current gen as PS3 and 360.

 

[donny2112]

Just curious, why hasn't Zelda: PH done as well in Japan? I didn't see it in the charts.

It came out in Japan quite a few months before it came out in the U.S. As others have pointed out, it has done well, in general, and top-tier for a Zelda game in Japan.

 

[donny2112]

I don't know if it's a mistake or not, but the Famitsu Top 30 for Dec 17-23 is up. I wasn't expecting to see that week by itself. Hardware, too.

 

[HK-47]

I don't know if it's a mistake or not, but the Famitsu Top 30 for Dec 17-23 is up. I wasn't expecting to see that week by itself. Hardware, too.

I get forbidden...how do you make famitsu work again?