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Media Create Sales 5/21 - 5/27
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Eteric Rice
Member
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BrodiemanTTR
Member
lupin23rd said:
I'll take a legitimate entry in an established "gamer" franchise as a greater sign of support than B-team spinoffs and Chocobo's Bullshit Adventure while continuing to announce big games for bombing consoles.
Pureauthor
Member
BrodiemanTTR said:
Funny, since Chocobo's Mysterious Dungeon which you just poo-pooed over is an established 'gamers' franchise.
And remind me again what's so B-Team about Yuji Horii himself working on DQ:Swords? I dunno about FF:CC, but last I heard there were positive things being said about it.
Pureauthor
Member
acuul said:
You obviously haven't been around prior to 2005.
acuul said:
It will be quieter than most recent ones, especially if it's true that PS3 actually went UP
although it would be somewhat noisy if on that same note Forza 2 resulted in LOWER 360 sales
If these threads continue along the lines of "no developer should ever make an HD game again" maybe Cheese should just post the numbers and we lock it.
m
What's the benchmark for success? 1+ million sales in a single territory?Rancid Mildew said:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6483902&postcount=58Matt said:
Amused has access to NPD.
Eteric Rice
Member
Jokeropia said:
Well it at least it beat one of the other versions.
BrodiemanTTR
Member
Pureauthor said:
Established as crap. Woohoo.
I dunno, something about it being developed by 8ing and Genius Sonority? I'd really like to know the extent to which Horii is "working" on DQS. I suspect it's something similar to popping his head in every now and then and asking if everything's okay in here.
Kobun Heat
Member
The only thing wrong with it is that you put the punch lines before the setup, for some reason.AniHawk said:
To add my 2c to the non sales component of the thread...
The PS3 (and 360) have a number of 'horsepower' improvements that allow for all manner of things that can potentially allow for innovation in gameplay including but not limited to improved AI, more detailed physics simulations, more intelligent agents, more detailed environmental simulations, on the fly creation and manipulation of procedural content, larger play areas, improved streaming, user created content and content exchange, user customization, larger number of simultaneous online players, video streaming, image recognition, and voice recoginition etc.
Dead rising is an existing example of a game which couldn't be done on a less powerful platform, combining a high number of enemy agents with detailed environments and physics allowing for a wide range of weapons. Little Big Planet and Lair are examples of upcoming games that couldn't be done previously. Even Singstar PS3 is able to leverage the network, Store, large local storage, and video capture features afforded by the PS3 to enhance significantly an already proven formula.
Suggesting that the massive increase in horsepower and storage are irrelevant to gameplay and that only waggle can create new innovations in gameplay is pretty shortsighted. There may not be a lot of examples right now, but amazing, fun and innovative examples of gameplay which could not be done on Wii or older platforms will appear increasingly on PS3 and 360 over time.
Who wins? The gamer.
The PS3 (and 360) have a number of 'horsepower' improvements that allow for all manner of things that can potentially allow for innovation in gameplay including but not limited to improved AI, more detailed physics simulations, more intelligent agents, more detailed environmental simulations, on the fly creation and manipulation of procedural content, larger play areas, improved streaming, user created content and content exchange, user customization, larger number of simultaneous online players, video streaming, image recognition, and voice recoginition etc.
Dead rising is an existing example of a game which couldn't be done on a less powerful platform, combining a high number of enemy agents with detailed environments and physics allowing for a wide range of weapons. Little Big Planet and Lair are examples of upcoming games that couldn't be done previously. Even Singstar PS3 is able to leverage the network, Store, large local storage, and video capture features afforded by the PS3 to enhance significantly an already proven formula.
Suggesting that the massive increase in horsepower and storage are irrelevant to gameplay and that only waggle can create new innovations in gameplay is pretty shortsighted. There may not be a lot of examples right now, but amazing, fun and innovative examples of gameplay which could not be done on Wii or older platforms will appear increasingly on PS3 and 360 over time.
Who wins? The gamer.
Tf53 said:
No problems - I'll do that tonight (UK time). I would have done it last night but as I wanted to put the 53rd week of sales on the graphs I have to redo them both anyway (I'll just save over the old one for a ninja edit). Posting graphs at 3am my time (when Media create appears) isn't healthly but making them then would have just been asking for trouble.
Also if I can get hold of the info (and the GF is so engrossed in her novel I can play with graphs undisturbed) I'll see what kind of correlation BT2 and the DS hardware has to the NSMB sales.
We seem to have 2 Media Create threads this week - the on topic one and the off topic one. It does amuse me when people complain about certain posters thus reigniting the arguments. You guys are the trailers to Cheeses numbers and Panther/JJ's charts and analysis. <popcorn.gif etc.>
Eteric Rice
Member
Mario said:
Lair and LBP could probably be done... But boy it wouldn't be as pretty.
I'll give you Dead Rising. Though, as I said before, there was a game from the last generation that boasted the ability to display 170 enemies on screen at once.
Then again, I don't know if they really were able to.
*shrugs*
Eteric Rice said:
If you are going to suggest that Lair and LBP could be done with the only hit being graphics and gameplay not being affected, then I would argue that most Wii titles could be replicated on a PS2 with a Dual Shock controller. You could simulate the controls "but boy it wouldn't be as pretty".
The examples I picked could have had some basic, graphically inferior version made, but the gameplay would be similarly basic. Ultimately the combination of the expanse of the playfield, physics, large number of agents, and superior connectivity and content sharing provide experiences in gameplay which could not be replicated on older hardware.
Mario said:
Well, then let's just leave the Wii out of this reasoning and say that most PS3 games could be done on PS2 but less pretty-looking: in my opinion it would still be reasonable. I mean, I think that, even if PS2 is quite old, it could still offer room for not-horrible-looking games with original ideas; seeing as it's still selling well, I wouldn't see any reason to phase it out anytime soon (if it wasn't for Wii's success gathering support in certain regions).
Also, I wouldn't forget that the Wii does have a couple advantages over PS2 (centralized online services, internal memory, user-friendly pointer-based interface) that would certainly make it stand out in other ways.
Mario said:
Little Big Planet is a shitty example. About the only aspects of that game that the Wii couldn't reproduce is the motion blur & fields of grass. You probably could make an uglier version of Lair on Wii as well, although perhaps you'd only be able to run over 100s of soliders instead of 10x1000s of them, a fact that would be of concern to perhaps 5% of the overall gaming population.
titiklabingapat
Member
Yup, LBP would be quite easy to implement on the Wii. It's in a relatively closed and small space and elebits demonstrated that the Wii can do great physics(and the level creation and sharing aspect). Nintendo might even have a clone in the works in case LBP takes off :lol
Pureauthor
Member
BrodiemanTTR said:
...And yet you're perfectly willing to let Rygar slide? Rygar is/was a piece.
You obviously know nothing about the development of Dragon Quest games in general. Go do some research first.
The "least" you would get is content creation aspect castrated to hell, and hefty limitations on size of user created levels.titiklabingapat said:
I'm not gonna debate the physics aspect because people apply the same reasoning as to graphics (oh simplify this and that and it would work "the same") by which logic LPB would still work exactly the "same" on a GBA.
Exactly what does DeadRising do that Lair doesn't (and it does it on a larger scale as well)? Or is this one of those - oh, it does more stuff that can't work, so it'd be easier to downgrade.Eteric Rice said:
test_account
XP-39C²
ITA84 said:
I doubt the PS2 got enough power to run the Euphoria Physics Engine. If you mean the visuals, then every Wii, 360 and PS3 game could be done on even a 200MMX, it would just look worse. Its more to the games than just visuals.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
The Wii can't be directly compared to the PS1, as the PS1 had support before it's competitor released, and therefore had the ball rolling already. Tie that in with the Apathy for Nintendo's Strong-Arm practices of the day and you have a rolling success.
The Wii will take a little longer to gain footing, as 3rd parties were literally caught off-guard with it's success. 3rd Party devs have only started warming to Wii in the past few months.
Konami may say one thing, but with a market shift of this magnitude their bottom line will speak for them.
The Wii will take a little longer to gain footing, as 3rd parties were literally caught off-guard with it's success. 3rd Party devs have only started warming to Wii in the past few months.
Konami may say one thing, but with a market shift of this magnitude their bottom line will speak for them.
test_account said:
I was just trying to generalize the argument. Of course there are games that take advantage of the additional power, but a lot can still be done on last-gen hardware. Each generation can do everything the previous one can, so ideas add up: the PS2 (maybe even the Dreamcast) has reached a point where there are so many possibilities that could, in my opinion, make it last longer as a development console than its predecessors.
Realistic physics are nice, but is it worth it to make such a big jump in technology in order to include them? Of course, there might be even more applications in the future that could benefit from such power, but I think there's still so much left in last gen consoles.
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.dmc said:
The Wii also couldn't support the same level of customisation, connectivity, and content sharing. It would be a total downgraded gameplay experience.
This would make it a completely different game.
Fafalada got to the crux of the matter. There is a double standard here where people seem happy to write off gameplay improvements afforded by more powerful AI, physics, graphics, large scale, higher environmental complexity, connectivity, and storage, suggesting that scaled down versions would be "the same". If you are going to do that, I don't see any reason why the same logic can't be applied to the Wii controller (which was where I originally weighed in).
PS3, 360, and Wii all have improvements over the last generation that will allow for new gaming experiences which could not be replicated on older platforms. Don't let platforms biases blind you to the possibilities.
Heck, imagine the opportunity of a distant future where raw horsepower and waggle combine (Star Wars Unleashed + waggle = O face?).
Haunted
Member
Only 4 pages in and the sales-age discussion has already transformed into a 'what can and what cannot be done on Wii?' meh.
Some of those animu titles in the TOP 10 are terrifying. Not my style at all. hm, what else? PSP holding up the Sony fort, I see. Well, 'fort' - more like a tiny island in a sea of raging Nintendomination. or something. >_> <_<
...
Yeah, I'll let you go back to your graphics/power/downgrade discussion.
Some of those animu titles in the TOP 10 are terrifying. Not my style at all. hm, what else? PSP holding up the Sony fort, I see. Well, 'fort' - more like a tiny island in a sea of raging Nintendomination. or something. >_> <_<
...
Yeah, I'll let you go back to your graphics/power/downgrade discussion.
test_account
XP-39C²
ITA84 said:
Can you give examples on what could be done on the previous generation consoles compared to this generation consoles?
ITA84 said:
They dont make new consoles just so they can have better physics and visuals, they make them because people want new stuff. At one point people get tired of the current consoles and want some new stuff. I wouldnt mind to see NES games still being produced activly today, but in general there is hardly any marked to profit big from it, unfortunatly.
Masklinn said:
One of the limits is the space. 312MB of free space isnt exactly too much.
Any self-respecting PC gamer knows that only these two are influential.Mario said:
Raw horsepower doesn't give you better AIs, AI research does and few improvements have been made there since the 90s, apart (maybe) from genetic/evolutionary algorithms.
Graphics don't give you a better gameplay. Better game experience? Sure. Better gameplay? Please...
The "large scales" have a minimal impact on gameplay too, and they were available for a long time if you only tried.
The only thing huge storage gives you is the ability to load the whole game on the HDD for lower loading time. Woot... Once again, better gaming experience, no gameplay improvement.
And the higher environmental complexity is extremely debatable.
In the end, the only things in your list that affect the gameplay are clearly connectivity, where the Wii has as much potential as the PS3 (and doesn't come close to the 360), and potentially the physics even though their impact right now is fairly minimal beyond eye candy (woot I can destroy crates!). The only places where I saw actual physics being useful were 3D "realistic" RTS and RTTs such as Total Annihilation, and even then the physics was only interesting to the hardcore.
Eteric Rice said:
Yep, spartan total warrior can display those troops, and they move around and fight intelligently too. All managed on the humble PS2, large environment with no loading outside of loading between the levels.
There is also ikuzagami or something which claims it can do 65k enemies per level, but from the video they are your classic stand still waiting to die dynasty warrior fodder.
test_account
XP-39C²
Masklinn said:
Unfortunatly you cannot expand the internal memory with a SD cart (yet). So far its only being used for backup and picture/music/movie viewing etc. I've heard that Nintendo is working on a way to expand the storage space tho, but dunno when that is comming out. Ye, i think you can include your own textures in LBP.
Masklinn said:
The Wii online system as I understand it does not support mass connectivity and content transfer with strangers outside of high level Nintendo developed applications such as Everybody Votes. (policy driven though that limitation might be).
Levels could also not be created to the same level of complexity and detail due to graphics and physics limitations which would make certain types of puzzles, and therefore certain types of gameplay, not possible on a Wii version.
Masklinn said:
I disagree with just about every sentence in this post, and it seems you aren't even trying to think creatively. Some quick counter arguments for those points you disagree with
- more enemies could be running detailed AI providing much more realistic crowd dynamics e.g. Assassin's Creed where getting spotted running across a rooftop by someone in the crowd below can scuttle your approach to a target, or handle the massive armies of Supreme Commander.
- higher fidelity graphics allow you to use more subtle environmental cues, see further into the distance opening up forward planning and strategy, or enable new styles of gameplay e.g. the gameplay innovation of Splinter Cell was centred around the better graphics (light/shadow technology) that Xbox was able to provide.
- large scale environments allow for higher speed travel, and consideration and management of a much wider range of resources e.g. Lair has the scale to allow for a large raging air conflict as well as simultaneous massive land based battles and assaults, both of which you can participate in and influence.
- large capacity storage allows for improved streaming, high levels of downloaded content and user generated content, caching of procedural content, or saving of massive simulations alongs the lines of a very detailed Sim City e.g. even a 20GB PS3 is probably going to have the ability to download and store thousands of LBP levels.
- higher environmental complexity allows for multiple puzzle solutions and experimentation, more interesting exploration, the combining of resources in unique and interesting ways e.g. Star Wars Unleashed looks like you could get past a squad of enemies by trying to light saber your way through, pull down those building materials on top of them, or try to sneak your way past.
Each of these things seperately has gameplay improvement potential. In combination, there is even greater potential (see crazy recently announced FPS with ability to alter the playfield on the fly for something scratching the surface).
It looks that this Mario guy is going to be the Monorojo of this weeks' MC thread :lol . All of those supposed "technological advantages" of having more processing power won't matter if there isn't money to be made. The original Xbox trounced the PS2, technically speaking, it had games that looked almost next gen (Riddick Chronicles, SC3), and only a few cared about that.
Pureauthor
Member
Loonz said:
*sigh*
Mario isn't saying devs will remain on the X360/PS3 because they have POWAAA, but he's stating (quite correctly) that there are gameplay things the X360/PS3 could do that the Wii simply can't.
Next time read before making such half-assed statements.
Magicpaint
Member
I was wondering how this thread got to 7 pages withouth hardware numbers...now I know why.
Loonz said:
As Pureauthor notes, my comments were only to point out that the ability to innovate in gameplay is not limited to Wii as the 'horsepower' approach of Sony and Microsoft does actually afford their consoles the ability to new things that other consoles can't.
As it happens, my studio is currently developing titles for PSP, PS2, PS3, 360, Wii, and PC (with a smattering of DS soon to be thrown in). I'm fortunate enough that I get to think about the possibilities of each of the platforms every day at work, and I prefer to stay optimistic and open minded.
MasterMFauli
Banned
Wow, this thread has been totally overrun by lbp-fanboys. :-/
Do we have any hardware-numbers yet?
Slow software week.
Do we have any hardware-numbers yet?
Slow software week.
Mario said:
But are these things that Uncle Tom, Grandma Betty, little Tina, Soccer Mom Cathy, and Retired Postman Patrick, and Pep Squad Josie care for, or even want to pay considerably more for?
The Wii isn't for hardcore gamers. Yes, it has games geared toward the hardcore. But Nintendo has made it clear that they are out to tap a new market of mainstream consumers. Non-gamers could care less about the list of things you mentioned.
