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[perfectchaos007]

I'm sad that endless ocean bomba. I hope it does better in the states.

( I'm not keeping my hopes up )

 

[titiklabingapat]

Oh jesus fucking christ, lance.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Oh jesus fucking christ, lance.

You guys wanted to keep him.

 

[Sharp]

Well when it was first out in it's upcoming months it was STRUGGLING to do 350k. This was the time where this massively hyped game was supposed to usher in the Wii age, and the first time Nintendo launched with a Zelda title. It was supposed to sell millions.

It struggles for 350k, and a lot of people say it's a bomb, and a lot of people justified its sales. It was 50/50 I think. I was disappointed if it mattered. All this in the face of Wii Sports and Wii Play outselling it week after week. Embarssaing it.

They were just laughing an dmocking, mocking and laughing at Zelda, as it ate their dust. Now he'll never be launched with a Nintendo sysem again. He had a chance to prove his worth as Mario has done so many times and as Luigi proved for the Gamecube. And he disappointed.

Outrageous, scandolous, disgusting.

But now it's crawled it's way to a very respectable 500k. Considering it was supposed to sell a million or more it's still a disappointment, not a bomb. But I'm happy with it now, because half a million is still good for Japan only, considering how the market is right now: obsessed with non-traditional games

Nobody rational expected TP to sell a million in Japan. Hell, few people even expected ZeldaH to sell a million in Japan until its legs started showing. But in any case just looking at Japan you'd probably argue that Halo 2 was a bomb as well, which shows just how blind that whole viewpoint is. If anything, Zelda has proven that real games can and do sell on the Wii, and in large numbers at that. But whatever, GAF is starting to piss me off tonight as it usually does after I read it too long. Time to go play Super Metroid.

 

[LanceStern]

Yeah, didn't see that coming...

I expect Nintendo's market cap to keep doubling over the next few years as long as they can get some people here to keep twisting themselves into a ball like this.

Well one, like my disclaimer said, I dont fully support the whole argument, but it's grounded with a good example.

So how about this serious question.

If showed anyone in the real world a video of Wii Sports, or even had them play Wii Sports, and then asked them "is this a game" what percentage of them do you think would say yes?

And alternatively, how many people in Japan do you think bought Wii Sports because they thought it wasn't a game?

That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

While we, the true gamers, the informed gamers, the ones that supported third-parties and indies, and lesser-name developers and sleeper hits, starve. Us, the true gamers, who sit and argue over sales numbers and which company is better and which game uses more high-technology and self-shadowing more efficiently. Us true gamers who talk negatively about the games more than we play them, suffer.

It's like Tales of Symphonia and the two kingdoms. As one basks in the Tree of Mana, the other is sapped into a withering, dilapidated, disgusting creature, starving for just a drip of succulent juices from the fruit of the tree of life.

Darn those non-gamers

 

[KINGMOKU]

I'm sad that endless ocean bomba. I hope it does better in the states.

( I'm not keeping my hopes up )

What the hell is going on today.

The game DID NOT BOMB.


IT DID NOT BOMB. IT DID NOT BOMB.

 

[Bo130]

WTF is Face Training.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ds/ykoj/index.html?link=jpg

 

[Oblivion]

Holy SHIT. Please tell me your joking.


PLEASE.

Like I mentioned above, I'm not going to go crazy and say that Nintendo will axe all future console Zeldas altogether. But really, do you think after 4 years of development, paying the salaries of nearly 100 people for work on just ONE game, and finding it to underperform in Japan, Nintendo will risk doing something on that scope and scale again? I'm sure they'll probably be happy with another WW level game, something they can crank out in 2 years, without worrying too much about any extra few million sales.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

You guys wanted to keep him.

What? There must be some kind of mistake.

 

[FitzOfRage]

Wait, wait, are we really back to calling Wii sports and Wii play non games?

Yes, because the fact that Wii Play/Sports has outsold Zelda is irrelevant. Zelda is far and away the best selling Wii game, and clearly the most bankable title so far. That mini game/ free controller crap doesn't count - unless you want to point out how Nintendo is destroying gaming.

Then the fact that Zelda has outsold all other examples of so called "non-games' is irrelevant. The fact that Wii Play/Sports has outsold it is all that matters.

 

[Pachael]

The tide has turned. Nobody's talking about PS3 v X360 anymore. It's all Wii all the way.

So what's new, guys?

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Isn't Endless Ocean the spiritual sequel to a series that didn't sell well to begin with? What were people expecting?

 

[LanceStern]

WHOA WHOA WHOA, I didn't know I was starting to upset people here.

I see I've crossed the line between "entertainment" and "annoyance".

I won't say anything else!!! Don't hurt me please Dragona

 

[norinrad21]

You guys wanted to keep him.

I don't remember this

 

[KINGMOKU]

Like I mentioned above, I'm not going to go crazy and say that Nintendo will axe all future console Zeldas altogether. But really, do you think after 4 years of development, paying the salaries of nearly 100 people for work on just ONE game, and finding it to underperform in Japan, Nintendo will risk doing something on that scope and scale again? I'm sure they'll probably be happy with another WW level game, something they can crank out in 2 years, without worrying too much about any extra few million sales.

Good grief.

So what your saying is that after years of making money, and making sweeping, epic games, Nintendo, within 9months of launching a new system, wont attempt games of TP magnitude?

Never mind the fact that it has sold GREAT worldwide.

Your saying becuase Zelda TP sold "okay" in Japan, Nintendo wont attempt games like that ever again.


You have GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME.


No offense meant, I just cannot fathom how you came to this conslusion.

 

[AceBandage]

Like I mentioned above, I'm not going to go crazy and say that Nintendo will axe all future console Zeldas altogether. But really, do you think after 4 years of development, paying the salaries of nearly 100 people for work on just ONE game, and finding it to underperform in Japan, Nintendo will risk doing something on that scope and scale again? I'm sure they'll probably be happy with another WW level game, something they can crank out in 2 years, without worrying too much about any extra few million sales.

So, you're saying that, based SOLELY on TP's Japan sales, they'll stop making games with huge budgets and development time, DESPITE the fact that it sold MILLIONS world wide?

Objection, your Honor! My client is an idiot! ~ Eric Sevareid

 

[super funk]

Well this thread went to the dumps particularly early. Its not even Thursday for Segatas sake!

 

[Colonel Mustard]

That mini game/ free controller crap doesn't count - unless you want to point out how Nintendo is destroying gaming.

They're destorying gaming by making software that actually sells? Instead, wouldn't they be invigorating the industry by putting out profitable, high-selling software?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

words

 

[TheGreatDave]

That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

OH MY FUCKING GOD

 

[Evlar]

They're destorying gaming by making software that actually sells? Instead, wouldn't they be invigorating the industry by putting out profitable, high-selling software?

No dude. We need more games that cost more to make than the entire Star Wars film franchise and will sell 250,000 copies worldwide.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

In TP's defense, as a launch title it was left in the shadow of Wii Sports, and since sales in Japan tend to be very front-loaded, it was left trying to get as many sales as possible to an anemic userbase.

There could be many reasons, absolutely. At the end of the day, however, the game isn't performing all that well per most people's expectations IN JAPAN (that's not for you RiskyChris, but some people are having trouble with that). Does this mean the end of Zelda? I highly fucking doubt it. Does this mean the end of gaming as we know it? I highly fucking doubt it. Does this mean the Windwaker art style could have another shot sometime? Who knows, maybe?

The following has little to do with RiskyChris, but I think it ought to be said.

This hysteria over what is or isn't a game (Clue folks: they're all games, whether you like it or not) and whether or not game x selling will destroy the industry as we know it is getting so old it's nearly idiotic to tow the line. Maybe the entire industry *will* change for a while. OH NO. THAT NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE.

If gamers we all be, then let's try to be open-minded and see where the market takes us. Surely we must be open to interesting new ideas, wherever they pop up? Surely we want something *new*, don't we?

Given the wide spectrum of entertainment methods our hobby covers, surely we must already be open-minded folks. Look at all the different games out there. Look at all the different games in your collection. Are you saying adding a few more types of games is really going to ruin the hobby? Really? What are you all so scared of? God, shmups even still come out now and then and that genre was killed fucking dead by the Playstation Generation. The games you enjoy now will still come.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Holy shit I am done with this thread. The arguments make zero sense, and were back to the non-game bullshit.


"Nintendo's done making games that involve teams over 10people even though they have been doing it for a quarter of a fucking century, gaming is dead! Wiisports is like reading a book! It's a non-video-video-game!!!!!"

 

[Stormbringer]

Yeah, I saw that. Hence why I'm sad that it's doing poorly for a DQ game.

*cue Dragon Quest spin-off sales chart...*

Actually, for a DQ spin-off, it appears to be doing pretty well.

[edit] Found it. Credits to ethelred :

Game Name:		Sys:	1st Week:	2nd Week:	3rd Week:	LTD:
DQ Monsters		GB	333,114  	117,937  	59,360  	1,911,107  
DQ Monsters Joker	NDS	633,084 	247,558 	47,689 		1,357,408 
DQ Monsters 2: Cobi	GB	501,081 	159,625 	116,802 	1,253,013
DQ Monsters 3		GBA	210,427 	107,719 	64,354 		593,812
DQ Monsters 2: Tara	GB	133,723 	34,882 		31,065 		480,582 
DQ Swords		Wii	302,066		66,720				368,790
DQ Slime Morimori	GBA	67,797 		33,451 		23,754 		346,299 
DQ: Young Yangus	PS2 	151,570 	58,648 		39,463 		301,755
DQ Monsters 1+2		PSX	132,479 	38,927 		22,847 		294,758 
DQH: Rocket Slime	NDS	43,995 		31,979 		31,509 		293,970

The DQS exact numbers are not up to date, but we know that it should be at +400k right now. If it tops 500k, or even 550k LTD, that should be indeed pretty good for a series spin-off, especially one that is not a DQ Monsters game.

 

[Branduil]

Well one, like my disclaimer said, I dont fully support the whole argument, but it's grounded with a good example.



That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

While we, the true gamers, the informed gamers, the ones that supported third-parties and indies, and lesser-name developers and sleeper hits, starve. Us, the true gamers, who sit and argue over sales numbers and which company is better and which game uses more high-technology and self-shadowing more efficiently. Us true gamers who talk negatively about the games more than we play them, suffer.

It's like Tales of Symphonia and the two kingdoms. As one basks in the Tree of Mana, the other is sapped into a withering, dilapidated, disgusting creature, starving for just a drip of succulent juices from the fruit of the tree of life.

Darn those non-gamers

 

[Saitou]

You guys wanted to keep him.

We have learned the error of our ways. We humbly submit ourselves to your infinite wisdom and better judgment.



I am imploring you.

 

[Oblivion]

Good grief.

So what your saying is that after years of making money, and making sweeping, epic games, Nintendo, within 9months of launching a new system, wont attempt games of TP magnitude?

Never mind the fact that it has sold GREAT worldwide.

Your saying becuase Zelda TP sold "okay" in Japan, Nintendo wont attempt games like that ever again.


You have GOT TO BE FUCKING KIDDING ME.


No offense meant, I just cannot fathom how you came to this conslusion.

So, you're saying that, based SOLELY on TP's Japan sales, they'll stop making games with huge budgets and development time, DESPITE the fact that it sold MILLIONS world wide?

Objection, your Honor! My client is an idiot! ~ Eric Sevareid

Guys, in TP's case, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Nintendo thinks. And judging by Miyamoto's reaction, they're not as happy as you'd think.

Now, I suppose we might get lucky and get another TP level Zelda maybe another 8-10 years from now. Hell, even look after OoT. We got 2 games afterwards that didn't require as much effort.

 

[LanceStern]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

Once again I apologize, apologize apologize (both publically and privately) to titikabling and you GreatDave.

I didn't mean for that to sound so serious, that's a JOKE argument guys, I don't believe that. I'm sorry again for that if it upset you guys, I had it riddiled with sarcastic excalmation marks and jpegs, but I edited it to make it sound serious.

If I had known people would take it like that, call for my banning AND blaspheme God's name, I wouldn't have done it.

I'm sorry, sorry again, I apologize. I won't post anymore. Still learning this thin line of "entertainment" and "annoyance".

 

[mutsu]

That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

Since when do people care about buying games to support the industry???

People play games to have FUN! That's the whole point right?

i.e. you watch a movie to support the industry? You drink coke to support the industry?

 

[titiklabingapat]

Nah, John Harker's post was really the culprit(and his super secret E3 all access). But lance agreeing with him just did it for me :lol

I still want to keep him.

 

[KINGMOKU]

Guys, in TP's case, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Nintendo thinks. And judging by Miyamoto's reaction, they're not as happy as you'd think.

Now, I suppose we might get lucky and get another TP level Zelda maybe another 8-10 years from now. Hell, even look after OoT. We got 2 games afterwards that didn't require as much effort.

I'm done. You get a thumbs up from shiggy.

 

[Innotech]

Well one, like my disclaimer said, I dont fully support the whole argument, but it's grounded with a good example.



That's just the thing. Nintendo has convinced them that they are games. The casuals and lapsed gamers don't know any better: They are buying these things and killing the industry from within.. but they don't care about supporting the industry, they just care about having fun, which is what the non-traditional games provide, while at the same time destroying our world.

While we, the true gamers, the informed gamers, the ones that supported third-parties and indies, and lesser-name developers and sleeper hits, starve. Us, the true gamers, who sit and argue over sales numbers and which company is better and which game uses more high-technology and self-shadowing more efficiently. Us true gamers who talk negatively about the games more than we play them, suffer.

It's like Tales of Symphonia and the two kingdoms. As one basks in the Tree of Mana, the other is sapped into a withering, dilapidated, disgusting creature, starving for just a drip of succulent juices from the fruit of the tree of life.

Darn those non-gamers

Wii sports and Wii play are games for fuck sakes. Do you think they are tax applications or something?
Is monopoly suddenly not a game either? What previously bleieved games are now nongames because of Lance Sterns brilliant analysis?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I still want to keep him.

Are you fucking kidding me?

 

[Tideas]

Good week. Seems like HSG5 has some legs. I wonder how the hardware wil play out, if the PS3 gets another 35k+ weak.

So it's apparent that HSG5 has a 1:5 attached rate. Not bad

 

[titiklabingapat]

Are you fucking kidding me?

You get Wollan and the others posting here and I'll agree with you. :lol

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

You get Wollan and the others posting here and I'll agree with you. :lol

There's enough insanity going on already.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

You get Wollan and the others posting here and I'll agree with you. :lol

Wollan already posted in this thread, third or 4th post I think.

 

[Mgoblue201]

I think it's pretty much safe to conclude Nintendo will never attempt a TP level project ever again.

Only if Nintendo cares that much about Japan. Any sales that PH gains over TP in Japan probably won't offset how much TP out sells PH throughout the rest of the world.

As great as TP was though, cutting future Zelda games down wouldn't be such a horrible thing. TP was so long because it had so many scenarios to go through. It was fun, but it's not exactly necessary. Development on that game must have been an abomination. They had to alter it originally because it was cell shaded. A year and a half after WW came out at E3 2004 there still wasn't much of a game there. And still most of that stuff we saw didn't even show up in the final product (including the one dungeon we saw). GDC 05 actually began to look like a game, and even though we started to see the final version during that E3, it still was hugely altered in the final product. The twilight realm wasn't even colored. Then they changed the storyline. Then they had to add Wii controls. A Zelda game that ambitious shouldn't have taken half that long. If they ever do it again, they should have a better plan right from the start that they stick to. If they're that worried about things like cost, then don't up end the tea table every six months. Find something that works from the start.

 

[AniHawk]

Guys, in TP's case, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what Nintendo thinks. And judging by Miyamoto's reaction, they're not as happy as you'd think.

Now, I suppose we might get lucky and get another TP level Zelda maybe another 8-10 years from now. Hell, even look after OoT. We got 2 games afterwards that didn't require as much effort.

They're going to Phantom Hourglassify console Zeldas. That doesn't mean we're not going to see any more. That's just drunk-talk.

 

[Lightning]

Damn, I was hoping that HSG5 has some legs, I hope it continues to hold in there for a few more weeks to gather some more sales.

That was quite the drop...

I hope the hardware didn't fall back to 13k again.... that would be immensely disappointing.

 

[Innotech]

They're going to Phantom Hourglassify console Zeldas. That doesn't mean we're not going to see any more. That's just drunk-talk.

honestly, Idl ove to see a PH-like Zelda on wii. Something that really puts the wiimote to a non-traditional use and gives motion sensing a workout without seeming contrived like the swinging in TP.

 

[Taurus]

Good week. Seems like HSG5 has some legs. I wonder how the hardware wil play out, if the PS3 gets another 35k+ weak.

So it's apparent that HSG5 has a 1:5 attached rate. Not bad

I guess you mean week instead of weak but anyway. No, not going to happen. And what is actually the "first" 35k+ week if you are waiting for "another"?

Last week PS3 did 28k.

 

[Oblivion]

They're going to Phantom Hourglassify console Zeldas. That doesn't mean we're not going to see any more. That's just drunk-talk.

But that's not what I said at all. We'll still see Zeldas just..not huge-TP type Zeldas.

 

[AniHawk]

honestly, Idl ove to see a PH-like Zelda on wii. Something that really puts the wiimote to a non-traditional use and gives motion sensing a workout without seeming contrived like the swinging in TP.

They already said they were going to do that months (hell, maybe it was a year) before TP launched.

 

[titiklabingapat]

not huge-TP type Zeldas.

Well, another one so soon(in 4 years) will make the franchise stale. I expect another one in 10 year or so.

 

[GrimReaper]

Still learning this thin line of "entertainment" and "annoyance".

:lol

 

[RiskyChris]

Holy crap @ this thread, what's going on?

Thanks for the reply Segata, it's good to see you posting again.

 

[mj1108]

Lance, please do us all a favor and just stop. PLEASE?

STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP

 

[AniHawk]

But that's not what I said at all. We'll still see Zeldas just..not huge-TP type Zeldas.

Uh-huh. I doubt that. It's the second-best selling Wii game right now, and combined with the GC release, it's sold well over 4m copies in a very short span of time. I can see Metroid getting that sort of treatment, but not Zelda.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

I still want to keep him.

Then you better do a better job of feeding, walking and cleaning up after him.