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[Moor-Angol]

the YoY comparisons begin again

you called it



Wii U vs. GC

week 107 - 2,074,356  /  2,461,742    -387,386
week 108 - 2,123,283  /  2,472,619    -349,336
week 109 - 2,166,297  /  2,481,951    -315,654

Things are going good for Wii U, this is the minimum gap from GC since I started (week 87).
For the following weeks GC will sell around 10-15k, but from week 113 winter holiday 2003 starts and sales will raise from 20k to more




PS3 vs. PS4

week 44 - 1,174,164  /   895,425    -278,379
week 45 - 1,186,463  /   925,570    -260,893
week 46 - 1,197,566  /   961,359    -236,207

Things are getting interesting here too, PS4 is getting closer to PS3 in the same way Wii U is doing with GC, but PS3 still have a long series of poor sales before week 53 (winter holiday 2007, average should be around 40-45k), but PS4 has an amazing line-up in Q1 2015, so let's prepare popcorn




PS4 vs. Wii U

week 44 -   895,425  /  1,075,155    -179,730
week 45 -   925,570  /  1,078,560    -152,990
week 46 -   961,359  /  1,081,643    -120,284

Here is just a question of time for PS4 crossing Wii U sales, Wii U just had from week 53 to 57 with solid sales (December 2013); we could already start predicting when PS4 will overpass Wii U, first time for a Sony home having higher LTD than the Nintendo's one since November 2006 (Wii LTD 371,936 (debut) / PS3 LTD 199,549)




numbers are from Famitsu, the one which does not change weekly sales from the previous week

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

you called it



Wii U vs. GC

week 107 - 2,074,356  /  2,461,742    -387,386
week 108 - 2,123,283  /  2,472,619    -349,336
week 109 - 2,166,297  /  2,481,951    -315,654

Things are going good for Wii U, this is the minimum gap from GC since I started (week 87).
For the following weeks GC will sell around 10-15k, but from week 113 winter holiday 2003 starts and sales will raise from 20k to more




PS3 vs. PS4

week 44 - 1,174,164  /   895,425    -278,379
week 45 - 1,186,463  /   925,570    -260,893
week 46 - 1,197,566  /   961,359    -236,207

Things are getting interesting here too, PS4 is getting closer to PS3 in the same way Wii U is doing with GC, but PS3 still have a long series of poor sales before week 53 (winter holiday 2007, average should be around 40-45k), but PS4 has an amazing line-up in Q1 2015, so let's prepare popcorn




PS4 vs. Wii U

week 44 -   895,425  /  1,075,155    -179,730
week 45 -   925,570  /  1,078,560    -152,990
week 46 -   961,359  /  1,081,643    -120,284

Here is just a question of time for PS4 crossing Wii U sales, Wii U just had from week 53 to 57 with solid sales (December 2013); we could already start predicting when PS4 will overpass Wii U, first time for a Sony home having higher LTD than the Nintendo's one since November 2006 (Wii LTD 371,936 (debut) / PS3 LTD 199,549)




numbers are from Famitsu, the one which does not change weekly sales from the previous week

shots fired. Still on Team MC.
Thanks for the comparisons.

 

[random25]

It's not a flop when a small budgeted, less marketed (as compared to other FF titles), new spin-off game sell as much and was sold out when other big titles cannot achieve as much numbers as FFEX did in a span of a month, and it did without even going to bomba price. It could be bigger, sure, but given how much risk SE have invested in the game, which is relatively small, it's already quite big of a reward. It could be something SE can produce more ala Theatrhythm.

 

[Nirolak]

I think it depends on how you look at it. Brand power isn't about blind trust or mindless consumers. People aren't that stupid as you said. I think the FF brand where it counts is still pretty strong. What I mean here would be that there is still a strong passionate fanbase for the series though, and this doesn't really mean "main titles", but rather, the type FF that people are excited for.

Dissidia wasn't popular because it had the FF name on the box, it was popular because it was a fun versus action game with actual FF characters, high production values, and lots of care put into the fanservice (sometimes overbearingly so). Everything from the music, the character choices, the art direction, and the actual polish in the game was exactly what long time FF fans (especially those who got into the series with FFVII onwards) would want in such a versus action game.

A hunting action game with a similar approach would be a very strong formula for success, even now. Simply putting the FF name on something isn't very effective, but making a game which dedicated FF fans would be excited about would certainly be very effective.

When companies take the Final Fantasy: Explorers approach it often confuses me.

Like I remember when Arkham Origins' multiplayer was unveiled and the developers were hyping up that you could play customizable versions of thugs from The Joker's or Bain's gangs and I was like "Who on earth wants to play as a generic thug in a superhero game?"

This is in comparison with Hearthstone where Blizzard wanted to use the nine original WoW classes as the classes for the card game, and instead of just making generic Priests or Rogues for hero portraits, they made the correct decision and went out and found a popular character that matched each class and had you play as them instead, including full voice work.

Generally speaking, regardless of what a product is, I agree with you that it should try and embrace what people like about the franchise if it's going to bear the name. Square even seemed to at least get who people would want to play as and fight against in Theatrhythm despite that being a large genre departure as well. That said I think they could have gone further in that series too, but it felt more on target at least.

 

[Moor-Angol]

shots fired. Still on Team MC.
Thanks for the comparisons.

my pleasure to add something to discuss in


if someone wants other comparisons feel free to ask

Spoiler

team Famitsu since Japan-Game Charts

 

[spliced]

Gundam Breaker? More like combo breaker.

 

[flatearthpandas]

What's the deal with PS4/Wii U in MC and Famitsu? Typo in one of them or just honestly tracked in opposite positions?

 

[small44]

Guys, for all of you "celebrating" PS4 over 1,000,000 in Japan (at least for Famitsu), you know it's still behind PS3 at the same time after release, right?

Also, don't know why people is surprised by Vita sales: Week 1 is usually more favourable to Sony hardware.

Many though it will not even do 1 million

 

[Oregano]

When companies take the Final Fantasy: Explorers approach it often confuses me.

Like I remember when Arkham Origins' multiplayer was unveiled and the developers were hyping up that you could play customizable versions of thugs from The Joker's or Bain's gangs and I was like "Who on earth wants to play as a generic thug in a superhero game?"

This is in comparison with Hearthstone where Blizzard wanted to use the nine original WoW classes as the classes for the card game, and instead of just making generic Priests or Rogues for hero portraits, they made the correct decision and went out and found a popular character that matched each class and had you play as them instead, including full voice work.

Generally speaking, regardless of what a product is, I agree with you that it should try and embrace what people like about the franchise if it's going to bear the name. Square even seemed to at least get who people would want to play as and fight against in Theatrhythm despite that being a large genre departure as well. That said I think they could have gone further in that series too, but it felt more on target at least.

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I actually think the whole "turn into classic FF characters" cheapens FF Explorers a bit. I feel it was definitely the right choice to have classic FF summons as the bosses though.

 

[Tripon]

What's the deal with PS4/Wii U in MC and Famitsu? Typo in one of them or just honestly tracked in opposite positions?

Short answer: they track different stores.

Longer answer: either tracker could be under or over tracking info.

 

[Phamit]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

 

[Orgen]

You expected wrong. New year's week is the otoshidama week. Parents give children money on new year, making it one of the biggest shopping weeks of the year.

I was aware about the Sony holds (or better numbers) but I expected at least worse numbers for Nintendo platforms... but seeing the 2014 numbers maybe I got the week wrong :|

Big drops will occur next week, not this one. I think it's always been like that.
yes, SW-wise Nintendo (and other publishers game on N console...ok, L5 ;p ) hold pretty well.

Yep, the drops will be next week then. My SW comment was about SW on Nintendo platforms, not only Nintendo SW

 

[Jigorath]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

Just staring at their Dragon Quest Heroes voucher.

 

[Salex_]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

PS+/downloadable titles/F2P?.....or putting the system in storage until February/March lol.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

next week xbox is gonna have a good surge of sold hw. did you guys posted the news about 50% off on all xbox hw in japanese stores?

 

[ßig]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

The 3DS during the fall of 2011 was weirder. There were simply no games but like 60k people kept buying it week after week. This period is now coincidentally filled with big sellers.

 

[small44]

#teamdengeki

Gen 7 was a particularly long gen essentially out of necessity in order to recoup as much as possible, probably too long given the rapid last gen collapse being seen globally.

These devices however aren't really cutting edge loss leaders.

But Xbox360 was profitable yet x1 came after 8 years.
The reason i think this gen can't be shorter then this one is that 3rd party aren't ready for next gen look how we still get cross-gen games,longer gen would mean the reduction of the incrasing of games developement cost.

 

[L~A]

The Xbox One is the second highest year over year gain and one of only two platforms to even do so. #XboxOneChampion

I see Japan is embracing the Xbox One as its mai.... oh.

The 3DS during the fall of 2011 was weirder. There were simply no games but like 60k people kept buying it week after week. This period is now coincidentally filled with big sellers.

That's not weird. Monster Hunter 3G was coming, MH4 was just confirmed for 3DS, Mario Kart 7 and 3D Land were right around the corner, and 3rd-party support was there with games coming.

 

[Jigorath]

next week xbox is gonna have a good surge of sold hw. did you guys posted the news about 50% off on all xbox hw in japanese stores?

That happened in one store. So sales might go up by 5 or 6 units.

 

[Sage00]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

You can get games like Yakuza Ishin for under half the price used - why would anyone buy it new.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

That happened in one store. So sales might go up by 5 or 6 units.

ah i thought it was in general, thanks!

 

[Nirolak]

I'm not sure I completely agree with that. I actually think the whole "turn into classic FF characters" cheapens FF Explorers a bit. I feel it was definitely the right choice to have classic FF summons as the bosses though.

I do think there's an argument that with enough high end effort you could create new or customizable characters that people would embrace the same way you have to in an MMO where obviously you can't have everyone playing the main characters.

That said, I still feel that might end up with less appeal given we're talking about a project with fanservice elements unless they were really well done.

 

[Moor-Angol]

what are people playing on their PS4?

Dragon Quest Heros isn't released and only GTA 5 is in the top 20

they check if PSN is working or not

 

[Aostia]

what do you think guys about possible Zelda MMask sales?
Oot3D sold better than Links Between Worlds, right? could MM3D sell at least as much as LBW edspinte being a remaster?

 

[duckroll]

I do think there's an argument that with enough high end effort you could create new or customizable characters that people would embrace the same way you have to in an MMO where obviously you can't have everyone playing the main characters.

That said, I still feel that might end up with less appeal given we're talking about a project with fanservice elements unless they were really well done.

I don't think the core appeal has to be "I'm actually playing as Squall" or "I'm playing as Tidus" or whatever. That certainly works perfectly when it's a versus game since you select characters, but your first point there is spot on. You can have customizable characters, but they should match the tone and direction which the existing fanbase has come to expect. The direction they went with FF Explorers kinda pleases no one. On the other hand, if the game actually looked closer to FFXIV, I think it would be much more appealing.

This isn't a graphical thing, just an art direction thing. It obviously won't look as good as FFXIV, but the 3DS is certainly capable of having graphics at least comparable to Type-0. Adding to that a layer of customization on top of that which allows players to get equipment which resembles the characters they love would go a long way too. The best part of dress-up in games with visible equipment if having stuff which people actually want to dress-up in.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think the core appeal has to be "I'm actually playing as Squall" or "I'm playing as Tidus" or whatever. That certainly works perfectly when it's a versus game since you select characters, but your first point there is spot on. You can have customizable characters, but they should match the tone and direction which the existing fanbase has come to expect. The direction they went with FF Explorers kinda pleases no one. On the other hand, if the game actually looked closer to FFXIV, I think it would be much more appealing.

This isn't a graphical thing, just an art direction thing. It obviously won't look as good as FFXIV, but the 3DS is certainly capable of having graphics at least comparable to Type-0. Adding to that a layer of customization on top of that which allows players to get equipment which resembles the characters they love would go a long way too. The best part of dress-up in games with visible equipment if having stuff which people actually want to dress-up in.

Right, I was just using FFXIV since I feel it really nailed having player made FF characters with equippable armor that still felt like FF:

Or if the game had a class based approach:

 

[Oregano]

I do think there's an argument that with enough high end effort you could create new or customizable characters that people would embrace the same way you have to in an MMO where obviously you can't have everyone playing the main characters.

That said, I still feel that might end up with less appeal given we're talking about a project with fanservice elements unless they were really well done.

Judging from the popularity of FFXI NPCs I definitely think they could have pulled it off if they put their mind to it.

Not to mention that using the classic FF jobs as the basis for customising your character is a massive fanservice element that wouldn't be possible if they wanted to use many of the major characters.

 

[Nirolak]

Judging from the popularity of FFXI NPCs I definitely think they could have pulled it off if they put their mind to it.

Not to mention that using the classic FF jobs as the basis for customising your character is a massive fanservice element that wouldn't be possible if they wanted to use many of the major characters.

Right, I guess what I was more imagining is that... to go back to the Arkham Origins example, I don't think people want to be a generic thug because generic thugs aren't cool, but they'd be fine with a newly invented supervillain or someone who at least looked as cool as one.

 

[duckroll]

Right, I guess what I was more imagining is that... to go back to the Arkham Origins example, I don't think people want to be a generic thug because generic thugs aren't cool, but they'd be fine with a newly invented supervillain or someone who at least looked as cool as one.

Isn't Arkham Origins a bad example since the multiplayer is an optional component of the game which is largely an afterthought? I doubt anyone said "damn, I'm not buying this because the multiplayer doesn't have supervillains in it!" lol.

 

[Nirolak]

Isn't Arkham Origins a bad example since the multiplayer is an optional component of the game which is largely an afterthought? I doubt anyone said "damn, I'm not buying this because the multiplayer doesn't have supervillains in it!" lol.

Right, I just wanted to use it as an example of a bad thought process by the devs instead of a sales impact example.

They hired Splash Damage for like two years to make it so presumably they decided to spend a fair amount of money on it and then this is what they came up with.

 

[duckroll]

Right, I just wanted to use it as an example of a bad thought process by the devs instead of a sales impact example.

They hired Splash Damage for like two years to make it so presumably they decided to spend a fair amount of money on it and then this is what they came up with.

Damn. Splash Damage just can't catch any breaks.

 

[Pennywise83]

That's not weird. Monster Hunter 3G was coming, MH4 was just confirmed for 3DS, Mario Kart 7 and 3D Land were right around the corner, and 3rd-party support was there with games coming.

Also, price cut was recent.

 

[unapersson]

The fact that the Wii U is on track to sell ~4M instead suggests the opposite; the PS4 should be outselling the PS3 by a significant margin, to compensate for the collapse of Nintendo's home console. But it's not, which makes the PS4's sales seem particularly unfortunate for the console market in general.

Are you sure that reality actually works like that? There is no "should". That implies there's some natural equilibrium around which the consoles circle, historical trends mean little in the face of actual events. PS4 will pick up if and only if the demand is there.

 

[Oregano]

I feel it's notable that apart from Theatrhythm SE's FF projects on Nintendo systems seem to try to appeal to fans of the pre-FFVII games exclusively.

It might be that they're actually under the impression that they haven't played the Playstation games.

The Ivalice games kind of go against that theory admittedly though.

EDIT: In particular they showed FFV footage before the first FFEX trailer and gave away the first FF to pre-orders.

 

[duckroll]

The Ivalice games kind of go against that theory admittedly though.

How so? FFTA and FFTA are kidified versions of FFT, stripped of all serious politics and intrigue. FFXIIRW is a hilarious SDified fanfiction sequel to FFXII using the characters and world in the same way James Bond Jr uses the James Bond franchise.

 

[Nirolak]

Are you sure that reality actually works like that? There is no "should". That implies there's some natural equilibrium around which the consoles circle, historical trends mean little in the face of actual events. PS4 will pick up if and only if the demand is there.

By should I think he means that in order for the console market to be asserted as stable or growing, the PS4 would have to be sucking the air out of the other systems.

Like if we look at the West, the PS4 and Xbox One are at least doing better than their previous incarnations, which helps make up the drop from the Wii.

How so? FFTA and FFTA are kidified versions of FFT, stripped of all serious politics and intrigue. FFXIIRW is a hilarious SDified fanfiction sequel to FFXII using the characters and world in the same way James Bond Jr uses the James Bond franchise.

Come now, FFTA is clearly a game about social darwinism and how those unfortunate in life should just be stuck with their lot instead of living in a world where they can succeed.

 

[Oregano]

How so? FFTA and FFTA are kidified versions of FFT, stripped of all serious politics and intrigue. FFXIIRW is a hilarious SDified fanfiction sequel to FFXII using the characters and world in the same way James Bond Jr uses the James Bond franchise.

That's very true, I was just thinking that Revenant Wings and the cameos in FFTA2 must have assumed that DS owners were at the very least fans of FFXII. Then again it was Vaan and Penelo which no FFXII fans likes so probably not.

 

[Nirolak]

That's very true, I was just thinking that Revenant Wings and the cameos in FFTA2 must have assumed that DS owners were at the very least fans of FFXII. Then again it was Vaan and Penelo which no FFXII fans likes so probably not.

Vaan and Penelo are notably the youngest main characters in FFXII, so on paper they fit the attempt at appealing to a young audience best.

Like a game about Balthier and Fran going sky pirating instead or Ashe and Basch trying to run a kingdom would be things that seem more on target if you're going for FFXII's audience in a more straightforward way.

 

[Pennywise83]

That's very true, I was just thinking that Revenant Wings and the cameos in FFTA2 must have assumed that DS owners were at the very least fans of FFXII. Then again it was Vaan and Penelo which no FFXII fans likes so probably not.

The cheap fanfiction RTS still sold 524.000 units. At the time, though, SQEX was basically developing everything on DS.

 

[unapersson]

By should I think he means that in order for the console market to be asserted as stable or growing, the PS4 would have to be sucking the air out of the other systems.

Like if we look at the West, the PS4 and Xbox One are at least doing better than their previous incarnations, which helps make up the drop from the Wii.

I'd say for it to be stable or growing it would need to do better again this year than it did last year, so we can either rush to judgement now or wait and see. I was under the impression that those kind of transitions take longer in Japan than in the west. I'm not a big believer in the narrative convention of "generations", so still see the market in terms of total yearly console sales and total yearly handheld sales.

It looks like the handheld market is facing more or a drop in the face of mobile so it'll be interesting to see if that stabilises or if something (*cough* Nintendo) can come along to turn that around this year.

 

[sörine]

I also think that PS Nova did decently as FFEX, looking at Vita's potential, compared to the PSP golden hunting-games era.

No way. Nova undershot even the most pessimistic of expectations while Explorers did better than nearly everyone expected. Nova was also a project that was greenlit projecting 500k, it's really one of the larger bombs last year.

 

[Oregano]

Vaan and Penelo are notably the youngest main characters in FFXII, so on paper they fit the attempt at appealing to a young audience best.

Like a game about Balthier and Fran going sky pirating instead or Ashe and Basch trying to run a kingdom would be things that seem more on target if you're going for FFXII's audience in a more straightforward way.

Good point. I guess it's notable that for KHDD they decided to include TWEWY characters rather than FF characters.

Also is it true that Dragon Quest VII is the only time they've brought a Playstation game to a Nintendo platform?

The cheap fanfiction RTS still sold 524.000 units. At the time, though, SQEX was basically developing everything on DS.

I didn't know RW did that much. I personally didn't enjoy it but I was still buying everything with the FF name back then.

 

[Hellraider]

I also think that PS Nova did decently as FFEX, looking at Vita's potential, compared to the PSP golden hunting-games era.

God Eater 2 did 400k and another 200k on PSP. Freedom Wars did 330k.Toukiden did 230k. Freaking Soul Sacrifice with a niche as fuck art direction did 190k, a number that PSN may or may not reach.

Original official expectations were 500k. There is no way to twist it. PSN was a huge bomb. It flopped. Hard.

 

[allan-bh]

numbers are from Famitsu, the one which does not change weekly sales from the previous week

When others trackers did that?

 

[duckroll]

The cheap fanfiction RTS still sold 524.000 units. At the time, though, SQEX was basically developing everything on DS.

I don't see what the sales have to do with anything. We're not discussing about the game as a failure, but rather as yet another example of S-E being unwilling or afraid to put serious FF games on Nintendo platforms, for one reason or other. It definitely is misguided.

If you want to expand that to sales prospects, then in the same year as FFXIIRW, S-E also released Crisis Core on the PSP, and it sold over 800k. A year after that they put Dissidia on the PSP, and it sold over 900k.

Why are there no S-E games on Nintendo platforms which adopt a similar art direction and character style? It's certainly the most popular style the company has to offer with FF, yet they shy away from it. It's a discussion worth having.

Edit: To add to this, here's another example of this strange disparity between DS and PSP - in 2007 S-E released FFTA2 on DS and FFT on PSP. The former is a brand new game, but again, with a much more childish art style for younger audiences. The latter is a (bad) port of the original game with added FMV cutscenes and some minor additional content. FFTA2 sold ~280k on the DS, and FFT sold 300k on the PSP. Clearly that shows what people prefer I think.

 

[Pennywise83]

I don't see what the sales have to do with anything. We're not discussing about the game as a failure, but rather as yet another example of S-E being unwilling or afraid to put serious FF games on Nintendo platforms, for one reason or other. It definitely is misguided.

If you want to expand that to sales prospects, then in the same year as FFXIIRW, S-E also released Crisis Core on the PSP, and it sold over 800k. A year after that they put Dissidia on the PSP, and it sold over 900k.

Why are there no S-E games on Nintendo platforms which adopt a similar art direction and character style? It's certainly the most popular style the company has to offer with FF, yet they shy away from it. It's a discussion worth having.

True; perhaps it's because they saw that with SD characters could sell a lot without putting much effort. After all, FFIII sold 1m and FFIV 700k; and FFXII:RW sold 500k+ units; the first CC game on DS also sold close to 400k. In my opinion, those games were successful for a different reason but maybe SQEX doesn't think so.

Edit: those numbers maybe show that the original FFT was still a well regarded game (it sold 1,2m on PS1), while FFTA was not beloved as much, and FFTA2 reflected this.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

In Japan, The Vita Has More Upcoming Games Than Any Other Console

Not sure how to interpret this. And holy shit at Wii U

 

[duckroll]

True; perhaps it's because they saw that with SD characters could sell a lot without putting much effort. After all, FFIII sold 1m and FFIV 700k; and FFXII:RW sold 500k+ units; the first CC game on DS also sold close to 400k. In my opinion, those games were successful for a different reason but maybe SQEX doesn't think so.

Edit: those numbers maybe show that the original FFT was still a well regarded game (it sold 1,2m on PS1), while FFTA was not beloved as much, and FFTA2 reflected this.

I agree. FF3 DS sold very well because a) the DS was a system everyone had, b) it was the first remake of FF3 ever, and the first major remake of a classic title on a brand new portable system. It wasn't because people particularly preferred it looking like that. As we can see, attempts to ape that success with FF4 DS and later with 4WoL resulted in lower and lower sales.

Obviously the company views different platforms with certain perceptions, and that's the thing which I feel is hurting them with some of these releases now.

 

[Brazil]

The 3DS during the fall of 2011 was weirder. There were simply no games but like 60k people kept buying it week after week. This period is now coincidentally filled with big sellers.

At least the 3DS had backwards compatibility.

People were probably buying them then to play DS games and to be ready for future releases.

 

[DarkLordMalik]

I agree. FF3 DS sold very well because a) the DS was a system everyone had, b) it was the first remake of FF3 ever, and the first major remake of a classic title on a brand new portable system. It wasn't because people particularly preferred it looking like that. As we can see, attempts to ape that success with FF4 DS and later with 4WoL resulted in lower and lower sales.

Obviously the company views different platforms with certain perceptions, and that's the thing which I feel is hurting them with some of these releases now.

This makes all the more sense with the announcement of Saga for the Vita.