Magnet_Man
Member
I always considered the "Tutorial" segment to be when you backtrack to where you fought
Rundas
It should've been more clear though.
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Metroid Prime Trilogy WiiU |OT| - Samus it Ever Was. Now with Ridleyculous low price!
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I always considered the "Tutorial" segment to be when you backtrack to where you fought
It should've been more clear though.
In addition to the grapple trick, the second segment drops
anti-phazon
If you're on Veteran (or normal), you can
use the screw attack to interrupt his charge and stun him
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
I knew about the ship missiles thing. Problem is, you can probably count the number of rooms you can use them in the entire game on one hand.
Another one sees the light. :')
TheSpaceBetween
Member
Sorry but it's a fact that Prime = Corruption > Echoes.
Anyways, I do love Echoes though. It has the best morphball puzzles, the best area in any Metroid game (Sanctuary), the best overall cast of bosses, the best lore, and is the most challenging and complex. However, it has the worst fetch quest. The level design and aesthetics of the dark world are the weakest in the series. The Temple Grounds is the least interesting area in the Prime series. And the Light Suit is overrated.
Anyways, I do love Echoes though. It has the best morphball puzzles, the best area in any Metroid game (Sanctuary), the best overall cast of bosses, the best lore, and is the most challenging and complex. However, it has the worst fetch quest. The level design and aesthetics of the dark world are the weakest in the series. The Temple Grounds is the least interesting area in the Prime series. And the Light Suit is overrated.
I admit it's a bit hidden but then what use would those ship missile expansions have?
I had no idea lol.
100% Echoes last night, took twice as long as Prime. Still as great as I remember it. <3
Now let's see how long it takes for me to 100% Corruption.
Well...this is something to keep in mind when I start 3 later. Lol.
Now let's see how long it takes for me to 100% Corruption.
Well...this is something to keep in mind when I start 3 later. Lol.
Sorry but it's a fact that Prime = Corruption > Echoes.
Anyways, I do love Echoes though. It has the best morphball puzzles, the best area in any Metroid game (Sanctuary), the best overall cast of bosses, the best lore, and is the most challenging and complex. However, it has the worst fetch quest. The level design and aesthetics of the dark world are the weakest in the series. The Temple Grounds is the least interesting area in the Prime series. And the Light Suit is overrated.
It was all fun and games until you said this.
Absolutely disgusting.
Reported.
The
in MP2 is really wonky. It's hard to get used to using it properly compared to, I think, Zero Mission (or it might be SM). I'm getting close to end, I believe, and right now, I'm trying to nail the rest of the Energy Tanks I need thanks to my trusty Player's Guide.
Screw Attack
Beat Echoes finally at 100% Completion and 100% Scans, clocking in at 16:30. Such a great game. The Key hunt at the end wasn't that bad. The world design is even tighter than Prime's with so many ways to get from point A to point B, from the multiple transports between the worlds to the Light Beam travel between the Temples, and with the Light Suit and Annihilator Beam traversing the Dark World is a cinch. By the time you get to the end you've likely found all the Key Holders in the light world anyway so getting the keys in the Dark World is no problem.
Started Corruption and the tone of the game is definitely different than Prime and especially Echoes. You dock with the Federation ship and are left to explore the place prior to shit hitting the fan. I can definitely see how people felt this was Retro trying to imitate Halo and such, and I do think they probably could have done it a bit better, as all the NPC's have pretty canned responses when you talk to them. In addition the Layout of the Olympus is standard linear FPS design and nothing real special. Things get a bit more interesting planet-side on Norion but even that design is pretty basic. But I guess these are the intro/tutorial levels so they are supposed to be this way I guess.
I feel like I'm the only one who likes all the "waggle" interactivity that Corruption did with the Wiimote, from turning locks to using the grapple beam to rip stuff off. I agree with someone else that the scanning feels a bit tuned down than Echoes especially. There are 3D Models of scans available by pointing to the Cube graphic, but not all objects have them. I also feel they definitely reduced the number of "ambient scans" overall, as I found computers which are banded together for one scan entry or duplicate scans for different objects. That definitely bums me out as the environments feel that they have a lot more interesting stuff to tell but I guess Retro didn't get the time or manpower to add more content.
Still, the technical presentation is the best it gets from visuals to sound and you can see that Retro's artists were still enjoying their craft building some great aesthetics and also pumping as much VFX into the scenes as they could.
I think it is clear that Corruption attempted, or at least was designed in ways to bring new people into the series or people who skipped Echoes (no doubt spurred by Echoes sad performance sales-wise). They definitely reduced the challenge as the Intro sections are easy as pie and there is a lot of streamlining that was put in.
Started Corruption and the tone of the game is definitely different than Prime and especially Echoes. You dock with the Federation ship and are left to explore the place prior to shit hitting the fan. I can definitely see how people felt this was Retro trying to imitate Halo and such, and I do think they probably could have done it a bit better, as all the NPC's have pretty canned responses when you talk to them. In addition the Layout of the Olympus is standard linear FPS design and nothing real special. Things get a bit more interesting planet-side on Norion but even that design is pretty basic. But I guess these are the intro/tutorial levels so they are supposed to be this way I guess.
I feel like I'm the only one who likes all the "waggle" interactivity that Corruption did with the Wiimote, from turning locks to using the grapple beam to rip stuff off. I agree with someone else that the scanning feels a bit tuned down than Echoes especially. There are 3D Models of scans available by pointing to the Cube graphic, but not all objects have them. I also feel they definitely reduced the number of "ambient scans" overall, as I found computers which are banded together for one scan entry or duplicate scans for different objects. That definitely bums me out as the environments feel that they have a lot more interesting stuff to tell but I guess Retro didn't get the time or manpower to add more content.
Still, the technical presentation is the best it gets from visuals to sound and you can see that Retro's artists were still enjoying their craft building some great aesthetics and also pumping as much VFX into the scenes as they could.
I think it is clear that Corruption attempted, or at least was designed in ways to bring new people into the series or people who skipped Echoes (no doubt spurred by Echoes sad performance sales-wise). They definitely reduced the challenge as the Intro sections are easy as pie and there is a lot of streamlining that was put in.
Just finished Prime for the first time. That was incredible. When I went back to console gaming again in 2013, I've played quite a few titles I had missed that had been hyped up like no other. Some of them have surpassed even their insane level of hype, like Xenoblade, Persona 4, Last of Us, etc... Metroid Prime demolishes it's hype. I knew it would be amazing, but holy cow. I think I just wasn't sure in the back of my mind how it would transition to 3D. Retro studios aren't human.
Favorite area of the game for me was Phendrana Drifts, and the only part I didn't really like were a couple sections in Phazon Mines.
The last 3 boss fights were incredible.
Gonna try to wait a bit before I start up Metroid Prime 2, but we'll see...
Favorite area of the game for me was Phendrana Drifts, and the only part I didn't really like were a couple sections in Phazon Mines.
The last 3 boss fights were incredible.
Gonna try to wait a bit before I start up Metroid Prime 2, but we'll see...
DragonKnight
Member
I was thinking about the Echoes key hunt the other night and I can totally get why it was designed the way it was. In Prime 1 it is possible to get all the artifacts except one before you get the final suit. If you found em that way you pretty much get zero time with the suit.
In echoes they completely locked all nine keys till the end of the game. But it makes sense because at least you actually get to be in the final suit for a while plus it makes you feel powerful and badass in a world/atmosphere that antagonized you for pretty much the entire game.
TL;DR: In echoes at least you get to do shit when you get the final suit; in Prime 1 depending on how you played, the game could be pretty much done by the time you got the final suit.
In echoes they completely locked all nine keys till the end of the game. But it makes sense because at least you actually get to be in the final suit for a while plus it makes you feel powerful and badass in a world/atmosphere that antagonized you for pretty much the entire game.
TL;DR: In echoes at least you get to do shit when you get the final suit; in Prime 1 depending on how you played, the game could be pretty much done by the time you got the final suit.
The Xtortionist
Member
Yeah, by the time I get the Phazon Suit in Prime I usually only need the artifact in the morph ball section in Metroid Quarantine.
Very nice impressions! It's so nice to hear these from complete newcomers to the games or from people who maybe played some when it first released but never got around to finishing for one reason or another.
I know you wanted to wait before trying Prime 2, but from what I've experienced and reading from others, I actually think you appreciate Prime 2 more if you jump right in from Prime 1 as it was designed to be played by a veteran of the original. It's up to you of course.
So very true. As one who has just played the final section of the game I can attest to feeling that way. Again with the Light Suit and all the weapon upgrades you're pretty much an unstoppable force. Those pesky Dark Elite Pirates are mulch when Sunbursted, and the Hunter Ing are flies to a flame with the Annihilator Beam on a crystal. Going from place to place is actually very fast thanks to all the connections. I still think Echoes is a much better connected world than Prime 1 since there are so many ways to go from place to place.
In a way I definitely appreciated Echoes' endgame more than Prime since it gave you more to do and see areas of Dark Aether that were inaccessible due to the poison water or ingstorms. I think if even more time and content had been put into Dark Aether that would have made it all the more better.
I guess that's pretty good since the game only came out a month ago? You'd like to hope all the Metroid love from this to the Samus Amiibo would send Nintendo a sign. And that the rejection of Other M was not a rejection of the IP, but the way it was handled by Sakamoto.
Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I didn't think all of the keys in Echoes were locked until the end. In fact I'm pretty sure I got two or three while playing through the game normally. I mean there's definitely way more locked away than in Prime but you can still chip away at them a bit before you get the Light suit too.
You're right, they're all hard locked behind the Dark Visor and the Light Suit is just required for a few like the ones
where you take the light beam up to a different area or diving into dark water/miasma
It's very funny how my opinion on Echoes has changed. I played it for the first time ~4 years ago and thought it was absolutely abysmal, I'm talking a 5/10 game at best. But holy shit, after playing all 3 games back to back, it's become clear to me that Echoes >= Prime > Corruption. The planets in Corruption just don't feel as "lived-in" as Tallon IV or Aether. I also think the enemy designs pale in comparison. Is it just me, or are most of the enemies in Corruption just dinosaurs and robotic dinosaurs?
The Reptilicus and redesigned Space Pirates did blend into each other a little; and perhaps the armoured enemies like Berserker Knights and Warp Hounds were made too homogenous, but the Metroid variants were decent. And some of the creatures on Phaaze were notably alien. Elysia's steambots also largely worked, being visually distinct from the other robotic enemies seen in the series.
And the boss designs were all reasonably distinctive. Even discounting the hunters, Mogenar, Omega Ridley and Aurora Unit 313 were successful iterations on enemies from prior games; and Helios was fairly creative. Though Dark Samus did suffer massively in the transition.
Considering how strong her design was in Echoes, and the multiple interesting concepts that were produced for both games, I'm really surprised her final Corruption design was...that.
Man, that final boss fight in MP2 (
) is some serious BS.
Way to leave a bad impression after a great game.
dark samus
- No ammo replenish after the previous boss fight
- no way to save, so you have to do the 10 minutes long previous battle again
- freaking 8 minutes timer
- knowing that, as screw attack keeps bouncing off on the room after the Ing King fight, you'll already loose 1 or 2 minutes of that
- And Dark Samus is invunerable 99 % of the time. Which is pretty annoying when you only have 6 minutes to beat her, and no more ammo to do some serious damage
- no way to save, so you have to do the 10 minutes long previous battle again
- freaking 8 minutes timer
- knowing that, as screw attack keeps bouncing off on the room after the Ing King fight, you'll already loose 1 or 2 minutes of that
- And Dark Samus is invunerable 99 % of the time. Which is pretty annoying when you only have 6 minutes to beat her, and no more ammo to do some serious damage
Way to leave a bad impression after a great game.
There are some crates you can shoot to replenish ammo in the circular room before fighting Dark Samus. Also, were you playing the GameCube version or Trilogy? I died to Dark Samus but I didn't have to redo the Emperor Ing battle in the Trilogy version.
Orochinagis
Member
I think thats the idea of that encounter, but there is some ammo refill around the battle and switch your scan devices to harm her
This is so very true -- getting around in Prime is a *bit* of a pain, but it was so easy in Echoes once you opened up the world. I really don't love the disjointed worlds on Corruption, but, eh.
You don't have to redo it, but you can't actually save, I believe.
The Xtortionist
Member
Scan her.
Well, I'm taking your advice. I thought I was going to be burnt out, but all I was thinking about this weekend was how I wanted to play some more Prime. Starting Prime 2 right now.
Blah the further I get into Echoes the more annoying it's getting.
First, when I got the Spider Ball, I spent nearly an hour going around trying to remember where I could use it that I hadn't used it yet. Finding the one blue door at the very bottom of the Torvus Bog with a magnet track was insanely frustrating because it's easy to miss when looking at the map. I only found it because I looked at a guide. I'm not ashamed whatsoever because it's such an arbitrarily hidden piece of level design.
Then, once I got Power Bombs, it was the same deal. I remember most areas I should go to, but the one key area inside of the large spherical chamber with the spinning gyro thingy was another pain in the ass. There was a lot of Echo equipment in that room so I just assumed I needed something else to disable that second spinning gyro. But nope! There were some conveniently placed Denzium barrels that I needed to destroy with a power bomb so that I could disable the second gyro.
Then I got the Screw Attack and same deal - should've been easy enough to find what I needed to do, but instead I got stuck in the Ing Hive Entrance trying to figure out what to do for 20 minutes, assuming there was a key to the temple in there. Took me forever to realize I missed the 3rd key right inside the dark spherical room.
Then quadraxis was cool to fight, so that's good I guess.
First, when I got the Spider Ball, I spent nearly an hour going around trying to remember where I could use it that I hadn't used it yet. Finding the one blue door at the very bottom of the Torvus Bog with a magnet track was insanely frustrating because it's easy to miss when looking at the map. I only found it because I looked at a guide. I'm not ashamed whatsoever because it's such an arbitrarily hidden piece of level design.
Then, once I got Power Bombs, it was the same deal. I remember most areas I should go to, but the one key area inside of the large spherical chamber with the spinning gyro thingy was another pain in the ass. There was a lot of Echo equipment in that room so I just assumed I needed something else to disable that second spinning gyro. But nope! There were some conveniently placed Denzium barrels that I needed to destroy with a power bomb so that I could disable the second gyro.
Then I got the Screw Attack and same deal - should've been easy enough to find what I needed to do, but instead I got stuck in the Ing Hive Entrance trying to figure out what to do for 20 minutes, assuming there was a key to the temple in there. Took me forever to realize I missed the 3rd key right inside the dark spherical room.
Then quadraxis was cool to fight, so that's good I guess.
Magnet_Man
Member
There is hint mode for that. If you turned it off because you wanted to explore and find things yourself then...I kinda think you forfeit your right to complain.
I do agree about not being able to tell that it was safe to walk on the dynamo when the second ring was still going, but scanning the first ring mentions that it is safe to walk on, IIRC.
I do agree about not being able to tell that it was safe to walk on the dynamo when the second ring was still going, but scanning the first ring mentions that it is safe to walk on, IIRC.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
Isn't hint mode on by default?
Magnet_Man
Member
Hint system is on by default regardless of difficulty setting but carries over between games so if you started with Prime and turned them off, they'll stay off when playing Prime 2.
You can turn it back on at any time in the pause menu.
You can turn it back on at any time in the pause menu.
So I am on Bryyo and I feel like I'm the only one who likes this place. The setting and lore and haunting music really suck you in and you get a good sense that this was an ancient civilization that was wracked by war. Although that only makes me a bit disappointed that Retro cut out a lot of Lore supposedly about the Culture and Religion of the Reptilicus, which may have better explained the great Schism between Science and Religion which tore their world apart. Even so, it's actually pretty depressing Lore, because like the Chozo, and Luminoth to an extent, these are events that are well in the past aside from the recent Leviathan impact and Phazon corruption. So there's nothing that you can do to help out really, aside from getting rid of the Leviathan.
I do get the complaints of the colors of the level, and the Reptilicus, being drab, but given it's a war-torn world with lots of lava-like Fuel Gel it makes sense. I do wish there may have been a little more color in the Reptilicus since their desaturated look makes them blend in to the background, which I suppose is the point, even though it's not the best look IMO.
That said, I think one of the big weaknesses of the level design was relying upon the ship for all transport, particularly on Bryyo where I don't believe you can access the three areas inter connectedly. I would imagine they did this to try and diversify the environments more, but I'd have settled for the traditional "transport" method, as it is an extra User Experience level to transport yourself via the ship and having to navigate that way. So then you end up with very small sections (comparatively to the previous games) of levels. It's certainly not "bad" by any stretch, but it's something that would need more refinement.
I think using the ship to fly to different worlds is fine to shake up variety and make environments even more diverse, but using it to fly from point A to point B within those worlds is too much. If there ever is a "Prime 4" I'd hope they find a better balance of this travel method.
I do get the complaints of the colors of the level, and the Reptilicus, being drab, but given it's a war-torn world with lots of lava-like Fuel Gel it makes sense. I do wish there may have been a little more color in the Reptilicus since their desaturated look makes them blend in to the background, which I suppose is the point, even though it's not the best look IMO.
That said, I think one of the big weaknesses of the level design was relying upon the ship for all transport, particularly on Bryyo where I don't believe you can access the three areas inter connectedly. I would imagine they did this to try and diversify the environments more, but I'd have settled for the traditional "transport" method, as it is an extra User Experience level to transport yourself via the ship and having to navigate that way. So then you end up with very small sections (comparatively to the previous games) of levels. It's certainly not "bad" by any stretch, but it's something that would need more refinement.
I think using the ship to fly to different worlds is fine to shake up variety and make environments even more diverse, but using it to fly from point A to point B within those worlds is too much. If there ever is a "Prime 4" I'd hope they find a better balance of this travel method.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
I love Bryyo. It was obviously inspired by volcanic environments, a prehistoric emphasis on using stone as a building material, and dinosaurs. What's not to love?
I waffle on whether I like it or Elysia more.
The Xtortionist
Member
I enjoy Bryyo quite a bit for its individual sections, but it feels more segmented than the other worlds. IIRC, Bryyo Fire can only be reached by flying to it, and Thorn Jungle only connects to the first area later into the game. By contrast, I believe the whole of Elysia and Pirate Homeworld are eventually explorable without using the ship.
Wreck-It Ralph
Member
I like Bryyo. It just isn't nearly as cool as the other two planets in Corruption.
Yeah I liked the Dinosaur theme and the Reptilicus and wish they had gone further in depth with them. Obviously since we had to split up the game into different planets we sadly couldn't devote the kind of depth that was given to the Luminoth in Echoes. I also liked how all the "tech" on the planet was old and dated fitting for a world which regressed after the Science Lords were executed and lots of war. But even their "high tech" stuff like the Golems were built with mainly stone as you noted.
I do have to say it's still so much better than the Chozo Lore of Prime 1. I'd argue that was definitely the weakest Lore in the series. It's so disjointed and the writing is kind of "meh" with how "enlightened" they are and how disconnected their musings are from the disaster that is enveloping them.
The Luminoth Lore is probably the best in the series though. With Bryyo behind and various Pirate Lore among them
It definitely is the most segmented world and I think maybe that was a mistake to have that as the first world since that left the first impression. Even though Elysia and the other planet are more aesthetically pleasing and have better level design. I think it's also tough because you're flying between The Fire Temple, the Cliffside a lot at first and then to the Thorn Jungle so you're doing a lot of transport with the ship rather than Elevators, and I could also see that putting off players.
At least as you noted, they made the other two worlds with better interconnectivity.
I also agree that Aurora 242's frequent communique's are a bit much. I suppose it's nice to give more backstory with the "hint system" which is what she is, but I feel it could have been done better and some of her messages could have been truncated and without voice acting or having to press a button to continue them.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
Yeah, I replayed MP1 a few months ago and the Chozo lore is...not awesome. It's fun on a first time through because it's the story and it gives context to the world you're in, but there's a bunch of word salad in it. They were trying so hard to sound "enlightened," but it has no anchor, no unifying base, just a vague notion of "yay spirituality," so they end up saying a lot of nonsense.
Shuggananas
Banned
Metroid prime 2 would be perfect if the fetch quest was a bit less shit, and if the two times you have to backtrack there was some kind of hinting at it.
Like you're in
and at a point you get fucking stuck. Oh but you have to go back to
!
And then later you're stuck in
and you have to go back to
to some obscure area, like.. really ?
These two bits are just so random, the rest of the game is rather linear as in you explore one area fully, complete it, move on to the next one, but not these two times.
Like you're in
torvus bog
temple grounds
And then later you're stuck in
the citadel
torvus
These two bits are just so random, the rest of the game is rather linear as in you explore one area fully, complete it, move on to the next one, but not these two times.
Yeah it was much more interesting the first time around, but subsequent playthroughs and how Retro vastly improved the lore with the Luminoth shows its shortcomings.
IIRC I think that one of those was going back for the Power Bomb once you got the Spider Ball. I forget what the other was, but those were indeed a bit of a backtrack since you had to go back through the Sanctuary Fortress. At least they threw some new enemies your way with the Ingsmashers.
Finally beat Metroid Prime 2 last night!
I had zero shame in using a guide to find the Sky Temple keys. It was either do that or stop playing the game altogether.
The final boss had (I think) some very smart design. I was extremely close to dying during one of its forms, and super pissed that I'd have to start it all over again, but then it did an attack which resulted in me getting a bunch of items which let me survive just long enough to kill it off. Yay!
Now that I've beaten the two Prime games I already played a decade ago, it's finally time to jump into Corruption for the first time ever!
I had zero shame in using a guide to find the Sky Temple keys. It was either do that or stop playing the game altogether.
The final boss had (I think) some very smart design. I was extremely close to dying during one of its forms, and super pissed that I'd have to start it all over again, but then it did an attack which resulted in me getting a bunch of items which let me survive just long enough to kill it off. Yay!
Now that I've beaten the two Prime games I already played a decade ago, it's finally time to jump into Corruption for the first time ever!
Magnet_Man
Member
Yeah, the Sky Temple keys are pretty rough to find if you aren't OCD with scanning or take extended breaks between sessions.
Corruption handles the "collect n items before you can get to final area" INFINITELY better and in a much more compelling fashion than both Prime 1 and 2. Also you won't need to worry too much about missing items in Corruption after a certain event. It's a lot more streamlined with more of a focus on action than exploration, IMO. But when you get to an isolation / exploration section, holy shit, do they knock it out of the park!
I scanned pretty much everything. I just take issue with the fact that most are literally impossible to get until you get the Light Suit, since they're buried under dark water or the asinine "light beam" at the Ing Hive entrance.
The first Metroid Prime handled it pretty well since the clues were easy to find in that outdoor area in the Tallon Overworld, and they were easier to reference later in the UI.
In Metroid Prime 2 though, firstly it's a total pain in the ass to get to the Sky Temple entrance due to the placements of the portals which get you there, tons of traversal, and secondly even after scanning all the clues the UI made it a pain to re-reference those clues on the fly to figure out what rooms each key was in.
The first Metroid Prime handled it pretty well since the clues were easy to find in that outdoor area in the Tallon Overworld, and they were easier to reference later in the UI.
In Metroid Prime 2 though, firstly it's a total pain in the ass to get to the Sky Temple entrance due to the placements of the portals which get you there, tons of traversal, and secondly even after scanning all the clues the UI made it a pain to re-reference those clues on the fly to figure out what rooms each key was in.
