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Michael Schiavo was right

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Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050615...ZjSdMus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

LARGO, Fla. - An autopsy on Terri Schiavo backed her husband's contention that she was in a persistent vegetative state, finding that she had massive and irreversible brain damage and was blind, the medical examiner's office said Wednesday. It also found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused.

But what caused her collapse 15 years remained a mystery. The autopsy and post-mortem investigation found no proof that she had an eating disorder, as was suspected at the time, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin said.

Autopsy results on the 41-year-old brain-damaged woman were made public Wednesday, more than two months after Schiavo's death March 31 ended an internationally watched right-to-die battle between her husband and parents that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country.

Thogmartin also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.

She died from dehydration, Thogmartin said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

He also said she was blind, because the "vision centers of her brain were dead."

Her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, had fought their son-in-law, Michael Schiavo, in court for seven years over her fate.

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain," he said. "This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

He said a review of hospital records of her 1990 showed she had a diminished potassium level in her blood. But he said that did not prove she had an eating disorder, because the emergency treatment she received at the time could have affected the potassium level.

The cause of her collapse has never been definitely proven, but testimony in a 1992 civil trial indicated that she probably was suffering from an eating disorder that led to a severe chemical imbalance.

The Schindlers, though, don't believe she had an eating disorder and have accused Michael Schiavo of abusing his wife, a charge he vehemently denied.

Speaking before the report was issued, Michael Schiavo's attorney, George Felos, said the Schindlers continue to engage in a "smear campaign against Michael to deflect the real issues in the case, which were Terri's wishes and her medical condition."

Bill Pellan, chief investigator for the medical examiner's office, said Tuesday that Thogmartin reviewed police reports, medical records and other documents in trying to determine the cause of her brain damage.

During the long legal battle, numerous abuse complaints made to state social workers were ruled unfounded.

Michael Schiavo convinced the courts his wife would not want to be kept alive artificially with no hope of recovery, contending that she made statements to that effect before her collapse.

Her parents doubt she had any such end-of-life wishes and also disputed that she was in a persistent vegetative state. They believed she could get better with therapy
 
Few people would want to go on in such a state (granted, if they were self-aware). Her parents are rotten bastards that needed to grow up and realize what was best for her.
 
Agent Icebeezy said:
But what caused her collapse 15 years remained a mystery. The autopsy and post-mortem investigation found no proof that she had an eating disorder, as was suspected at the time, Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin said.
Is it really possible to tell if someone had an eating disorder 15 years ago with an autopsy?

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain," he said. "This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."
Physically, how does this work? Parts of the brain damaged and dead, easy to understand. But if she was full-brained before, and half-brained now... did the rest just liquify?
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
omfg... she was blind????!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

well, there goes the argument that she "smiled when her parents entered the room" or whatever it was.. unfreaking real....
 

GLoK

Member
JoshuaJSlone said:
Physically, how does this work? Parts of the brain damaged and dead, easy to understand. But if she was full-brained before, and half-brained now... did the rest just liquify?

Well, I'm not a doctor or anything, but I think that's pretty much right.. yeah... I remember reading something to the effect of the dead portions of her brain more or less turning into spinal fluid.
 
The Experiment said:
Expect Sean Hannity to ignore this nugget of news tonight

There will be a lot of people who will ignore this news. Remember, there were people on both sides of the aisle that tried to use this story for politcal gain. Wasn't the vote in congress pretty much unanimous to keep the feeding tube inserted? It wasnt until the courts ruled on the case that it was removed.

I'm sure Mr. Schiavo feels some vindication that what he did was the correct thing to do, and that he had to stick to his guns for years to see it through to the end.

All I know is that I wouldn't want to live in the state she was in.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
JoshuaJSlone said:
Is it really possible to tell if someone had an eating disorder 15 years ago with an autopsy?

I think so. She was rumored to have bulimia. All that stomach acid can do some major damage to esophageal tissues. I watched a news story one time about a male bulimic who made himself vomit so much that the acid wore a hole in his espohagus and he eventually died from complications. They probably determined that she had an eating disorder by examining her espohagus.
 
It does beg the question though on how they didn't know she was blind before this. If she didn't react to changes in light and darkness, movement, etc., even in her vegitative state, that would tell me that either she is blind, or she really isn't cognizant of the things going on around her. Very interesting results to say the least.
 
Time to start calling Bill Frist's office again so I can a diagnosis on what's troubling me:

Bill Frist (R-Tenn.), a renowned heart surgeon before becoming Senate majority leader, went to the floor late Thursday night for the second time in 12 hours to argue that Florida doctors had erred in saying Terri Schiavo is in a "persistent vegetative state."

"I question it based on a review of the video footage which I spent an hour or so looking at last night in my office," he said in a lengthy speech in which he quoted medical texts and standards. "She certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli."

I wonder what his diagnosis would be if I sent in a video of my middle-finger?
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
There will be a lot of people who will ignore this news. Remember, there were people on both sides of the aisle that tried to use this story for politcal gain.

Certainly no Democrats. They all ran and hid for fear of being labled "Unpassionate Killers!!" .
 
Incognito said:
Certainly no Democrats. They all ran and hid for fear of being labled "Unpassionate Killers!!" .

According to this article, the ruling was "unanimously passed" by the Senate. That pretty much means that both Republicans and Democrats had a hand in the "political thuggery" as some were calling it at the time.
 

Justin Bailey

------ ------
The Experiment said:
Expect Sean Hannity to ignore this nugget of news tonight
Nah, all he has to do is go on a smear campaign against the doctor that performed the autopsy. Just prove that he's a democrat or find out he smoked pot in college and there ya go, he's done.
 
Justin Bailey said:
Nah, all he has to do is go on a smear campaign against the doctor that performed the autopsy. Just prove that he's a democrat or find out he smoked pot in college and there ya go, he's done.

I'd laugh if your assesment wasn't deadly accurate.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
According to this article, the ruling was "unanimously passed" by the Senate. That pretty much means that both Republicans and Democrats had a hand in the "political thuggery" as some were calling it at the time.

Well, in the US House, 53 Democrats were against any intervention. However, 47 were for the replacement of the feeding tube. I'm trying to find the roll call numbers for the US Senate, so when I find 'em, I'll post.

But mainly I was talking about the lack of Democrat spine duing the whole political theater. They weren't anywhere to be found for three weeks. Meanwhile, Republicans were controlling the debate and bellowing out ridiculous assertions unchecked by the media.
 
Kung Fu Jedi said:
According to this article, the ruling was "unanimously passed" by the Senate. That pretty much means that both Republicans and Democrats had a hand in the "political thuggery" as some were calling it at the time.
And who was actually on the news trying to have Schiavo still connected? Right. Delay, Santorum and Frist. The Democrats hid to get rid of the mess.

Reading some articles, I remembered a biggie: Jeb Bush. He's been playing this issue for years.
 

Baron Aloha

A Shining Example
Incognito said:
But mainly I was talking about the lack of Democrat spine duing the whole political theater. They weren't anywhere to be found for three weeks. Meanwhile, Republicans were controlling the debate and bellowing out ridiculous assertions unchecked by the media.

I actually think it was a smart move on their behalf to stay hidden and not say a word about it. If they would have seriously gotten involved they probably would have been dragged down with the republicans. Even though they were on the opposite side of the issue it would have been sort of like guilt by association. Not only that but the republican spin-machine would have found a way to turn this whole thing around on them.

They did the right thing. Come 2006 they can throw this entire debacle in the republicans faces. The republican party is supposed to want to limit government involvement in people's lives and they went and took some very extreme measures to do the exact opposite thing.

Thankfully this whole thing worked out for the best in the end and Terri was finally given peace.
 
I agree mostly, JC. Still, it would have been nice to a Democratic spokesman out there or something to counteract the amount of pure drivel being shat out by these idiots. But who knows, maybe the Democrats actually thought this through and decided to give the Republicans all the rope they needed to hang themselves? I doubt it.

The general election of 2004 scared the shit out of them because it seemed as if they were losing their moral touch so they hid in the bushes when push came to shove. What is funny, though, is that more Americans side with Democrats on the poll of moral issues than Republicans. Hopefully, we'll see that turned into some sort of classic Republican wedge-issue for election 2006.
 
JoshuaJSlone said:
Physically, how does this work? Parts of the brain damaged and dead, easy to understand. But if she was full-brained before, and half-brained now... did the rest just liquify?


In gross anatomy lab, I had to dissect out the brain of someone who had an intracerebral hemorrhage, but survived for a while. Basically, dude had a blood vessel burst on the right side of his brain so that pretty much his entire front and side brain on the right were just mush; there was a thin layer of tissue and then just this bloody goo on the inside. After the brain stopped getting blood from that main artery that burst, the brain just atrophied and liquified. However, his brainstem was unaffected so that he was still able to live with simplistic functions (breathing, digesting, etc.)
 

Zaptruder

Banned
Just imagine the things that goes through the head of someone like Bill Frist...

the guy goes and checks so very briefly, and for show only the condition of this dead woman and then comes out and announces regardless of what he knows, that this woman still has a chance to live, ignoring the smearing of reputations that occurs, ignoring the wishes of the dead woman, ignoring the feelings of her husband and even her parents; knowingly dragging this all out for the sole purpose of political grandstanding.

That he doesn't care at all about the fate of the woman but knows that he can manipulate public opinion, polarizing it, ultimately knowing that, in a do or die situation, the many christians in the country will stand behind a superficially christian party, despite the many differences in opinions on how they think things should be run, issues should be handled, etc...

If it wasn't so chillingly haunting, that the guy seems to ignore principles, ethics, morals, effects, for the pursuit of power, it would almost be sinisterly brilliant.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Suprise, suprise.

Oh wait, it was completely obvious.
 
Yeah, you guys do have a point, it was pretty much Republican's out in the front on this one. But the Dems still could have, and should have, voted against this. Congress should never have gotten involved on any level, and the courts eventually let them know that. It's a shame that something like this has to become a political issue. Many of the people involved were just trying to get a photo-op, imho.
 

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
They will not let this die

http://www.earnedmedia.org/pfl0615.htm

WASHINGTON, June 15 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Fr. Frank Pavone, who was with Terri Schiavo in the final hours and moments of her life and has called her death a murder, issued the following statement upon today’s release of her autopsy report:

“No details of this autopsy change the moral evaluation of what happened to Terri. Her physical injuries and disabilities never made her less of a person. No amount of brain injury ever justifies denying a person proper humane care. That includes food and water.

“A person with a 'profoundly atrophied' brain needs profound care and love. Terri did not die from an atrophied brain. She died from an atrophy of compassion on the part of her estranged husband and those who helped him to have her deliberately killed.”

Priests for Life is an Association of the Faithful recognized under the Canon Law of the Catholic Church, and is a 501(c)3 tax- exempt organization. Its mission is to assist the Church and all people of good will to protect human life from abortion and euthanasia.
 

pollo

Banned
http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=april_fools05

so terri schiavo died today

here is a pyramid of grief i made to show solidarity with terris family:


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i hope that earns me some eprops (proper recognition in an electronic form lol) LOL LOL LOL!!!

LOL LOL LOL!!!


in case u dont know who treri si, shes the girl who was suffering from a disease called bulemia.

:lol :lol
 

mrmyth

Member
Agent Icebeezy said:
They will not let this die

http://www.earnedmedia.org/pfl0615.htm

WASHINGTON, June 15 /Christian Wire Service/ -- Fr. Frank Pavone, who was with Terri Schiavo in the final hours and moments of her life and has called her death a murder, issued the following statement upon today’s release of her autopsy report:

“No details of this autopsy change the moral evaluation of what happened to Terri. Her physical injuries and disabilities never made her less of a person. No amount of brain injury ever justifies denying a person proper humane care. That includes food and water.

“A person with a 'profoundly atrophied' brain needs profound care and love. Terri did not die from an atrophied brain. She died from an atrophy of compassion on the part of her estranged husband and those who helped him to have her deliberately killed.”

Priests for Life is an Association of the Faithful recognized under the Canon Law of the Catholic Church, and is a 501(c)3 tax- exempt organization. Its mission is to assist the Church and all people of good will to protect human life from abortion and euthanasia.


Good goddamm these people piss me off. She was being kept alive by unnatural means, you dipshits. When we went natural, she naturally died. So which is it - 'its unnatural to torture a human blah blah blah' or 'God's will blah blah blah'. You can't have it both ways.

Can't wait to hear the drivel that pours out of her parents' oral cavities.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
mrmyth said:
Good goddamm these people piss me off. She was being kept alive by unnatural means, you dipshits. When we went natural, she naturally died. So which is it - 'its unnatural to torture a human blah blah blah' or 'God's will blah blah blah'. You can't have it both ways.

Can't wait to hear the drivel that pours out of her parents' oral cavities.
Yeah, that REALLY pisses me off.

Sticking a big old tube down someone's throat and forcing them to eat when they can't even chew and swallow is NOT natural. It's an unnatural, artificial life-support system procured by, gasp, SCIENCE!!!!!
 

human5892

Queen of Denmark
Huh, she was born in -- and will have her ashes buried in, apparently -- the county in which I now live. Hopefully I'll encounter some craaaazy protestors around here when she is buried so that I can throw vegetables at them.
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Her parents really aren't letting this die, and at this point I think it's a fair question to ask whether or not their denial is starting to erode any claims of love they have for their daughter.

The entire article can be found here:
http://www.channel3000.com/news/4608901/detail.html

The attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents said they continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, despite the results of the autopsy.

David Gibbs said Bob and Mary Schindler plan to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and may take some unspecified legal action. The Schindlers fought their son-in-law in court over their daughter's fate for nearly seven years.

Schiavo's family has accused Michael Schiavo of abusing her, which he denies. They also said she was minimally conscious, but the autopsy backed up the contention of Schiavo's husband that she was in a persistent vegetative state.

The medical examiner found no evidence that she was strangled or otherwise abused. The autopsy autopsy concluded that Schiavo did not suffer any trauma before her 1990 collapse when she lapsed into a vegetative state after her heart stopped beating for several minutes.

But what caused the collapse of the woman who became the focus of a right-to-die dispute remains a mystery.
 

Willco

Hollywood Square
The attorney for Terri Schiavo's parents said they continue to believe their daughter was not in a persistent vegetative state, and furthermore, is still alive, despite the results of the autopsy.

"Although some doctor has reportedly backed up Michael Schiavo's claims, Bob and Mary Schindler are confident that Terri will respond to therapy postmortem."

David Gibbs said Bob and Mary Schindler plan to discuss the autopsy with other medical experts and are hoping than an intense session of E-Meter therapy will cleanse her of damaging body thetans, as well as prevent necrosis.

L Ron Hubbard could not be reached for comment.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
My parents, being more religious than me, were against pulling the plug. Odd thing is our Church's peacher was for it (or at least against the Federal Government interfering).

Anyway, I sent an email basically saying that I was right and that Bill Frist is a bastard that doesn't adhere to real conservative values like states' rights and sanctity of marriage.
 

DarienA

The black man everyone at Activision can agree on
Agent Icebeezy said:
“No details of this autopsy change the moral evaluation of what happened to Terri. Her physical injuries and disabilities never made her less of a person. No amount of brain injury ever justifies denying a person proper humane care. That includes food and water.

Umm actually yes her disabilities did make her less of a person... there was so much brain damage that the person was gone... a long time ago.
 
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