ChorizoPicozo
Member
no end to this PR Cluster Fuck
Something Wicked
Member
I suppose it may be time to dust off this old account…
Yep, studios being shut down and games being cancelled certainly sucks, though I hate to say, some of the particular projects from "this round" are not exactly surprising.
I think some people misread the tea leaves when came to The Initiative/Perfect Dark. That studio had major layoffs in early 2022, as I'm guessing Xbox leadership got worried they had another potential "343i-situation" on their hands. And later, it was announced that Crystal Dynamics would be also co-developing the game. But, I know, at one point, CD had stated that they wouldn't really work on Perfect Dark, until that Tomb Raider reboot was finished. So, before the studio shutdown, there was a good chance that Perfect Dark may not have been completed until 2029 or later, even under some ideal scenarios.
I know people are ragging on Phil and Co., but this round of layoffs, like one from 2 years ago, were mandated by MS upper management. Honestly, one could say they (Xbox) sort of keep underperforming/failing projects going- just so when a company-mandated layoff occurs ("You must fire 10% of your department, regardless of performance"), the potentially more successful projects are somewhat shielded.
As far with issues with "managing studios", I do feel that Xbox has sort of gone from one end of the spectrum to another in the last 15+ years or so. Initially, problems started long ago (2008?) when it was actually MS leadership having the galaxy-brain idea of "annual Halo games", which really soured relations with Bungie. Then, there was rushed development and release of Fable 3, which sort of began the end of Lionhead. There seemed to be tight deadlines with an almost religious belief of needing all 1st party games to release during the period of Sept. – Nov.
With Phil at the helm, it seem he has tried to change from that mindset, as studios seem to have been given a lot more flexibility when it comes to game production time and release dates. However, I think it's fair to say that Xbox leadership may have been a bit- too flexible. Years ago, I did not trust that 343i could a pull-off a more ambitious Halo game- and well, somehow things were even much worse than my low expectations. Structural issues within 343i needed to be identified, by Xbox leadership, much earlier in that game's development (granted, the truth is that there was no possible quick fix for that game/studio).
However, I suppose Xbox did learn that lesson with The Initiative and the layoffs in 2022. I guess the "fiscally less-risky" decision would have been to cancel Perfect Dark and shut down the whole studio then. Perhaps, Everwild should have been cancelled years ago too? And, we all know the lovely gaming community would have been fine with that then, as it would have saved Microsoft a few extra bucks (though Phil may have had to shut down a couple other studios/games last week instead).
But as a Gamepass subscriber over the last few years, there's certainly been a lot great titles published by MS. Ori 2 was awesome, Forza Horizon 5 still looks amazing, and MS Flight Simulator was probably the most technically impressive game this gen for me. I think I put over 300 hrs in Starfield. Machine Games absolutely nailed the Indy game and I really liked the somewhat faster-paced combat in Avowed (not a fan of turn-based RPGs, so it was nice there was something also for me this year).
I do hope MS corporate realizes that they do have a lot great studios making great games (and they need a lot of them). And, I think they're positioned relatively well for the 2030s, if they maintain the course… and don't gut too many studios. It seems they really intend for the Gamepass – XCloud combo to be the core of their gaming business in the future. It seems to be based around that:
A) Gaming hardware sales will decline, among casual gamers, due to rising hardware costs (I know this may rile up a lot of people)
B) Demographic changes- the % of gamers will increase a bit as the years go by; a higher % of Gen Z women are gamers vs. other generations, etc.
C) Declining interest in other forms of entertainment – gaming interest may exceed that of TV/movie streaming (Netflix may decline) in the 2030s; interest in North American sports leagues may decline (I think some people are really underestimating this one)
Also, I think MS really needs Gamepass for XCloud to be successful, so I hope they keep it going. I still think investing in the gaming industry bodes well in the coming decade(s). But, we will see...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, "too long"- shut up, haha.
Yep, studios being shut down and games being cancelled certainly sucks, though I hate to say, some of the particular projects from "this round" are not exactly surprising.
I think some people misread the tea leaves when came to The Initiative/Perfect Dark. That studio had major layoffs in early 2022, as I'm guessing Xbox leadership got worried they had another potential "343i-situation" on their hands. And later, it was announced that Crystal Dynamics would be also co-developing the game. But, I know, at one point, CD had stated that they wouldn't really work on Perfect Dark, until that Tomb Raider reboot was finished. So, before the studio shutdown, there was a good chance that Perfect Dark may not have been completed until 2029 or later, even under some ideal scenarios.
I know people are ragging on Phil and Co., but this round of layoffs, like one from 2 years ago, were mandated by MS upper management. Honestly, one could say they (Xbox) sort of keep underperforming/failing projects going- just so when a company-mandated layoff occurs ("You must fire 10% of your department, regardless of performance"), the potentially more successful projects are somewhat shielded.
As far with issues with "managing studios", I do feel that Xbox has sort of gone from one end of the spectrum to another in the last 15+ years or so. Initially, problems started long ago (2008?) when it was actually MS leadership having the galaxy-brain idea of "annual Halo games", which really soured relations with Bungie. Then, there was rushed development and release of Fable 3, which sort of began the end of Lionhead. There seemed to be tight deadlines with an almost religious belief of needing all 1st party games to release during the period of Sept. – Nov.
With Phil at the helm, it seem he has tried to change from that mindset, as studios seem to have been given a lot more flexibility when it comes to game production time and release dates. However, I think it's fair to say that Xbox leadership may have been a bit- too flexible. Years ago, I did not trust that 343i could a pull-off a more ambitious Halo game- and well, somehow things were even much worse than my low expectations. Structural issues within 343i needed to be identified, by Xbox leadership, much earlier in that game's development (granted, the truth is that there was no possible quick fix for that game/studio).
However, I suppose Xbox did learn that lesson with The Initiative and the layoffs in 2022. I guess the "fiscally less-risky" decision would have been to cancel Perfect Dark and shut down the whole studio then. Perhaps, Everwild should have been cancelled years ago too? And, we all know the lovely gaming community would have been fine with that then, as it would have saved Microsoft a few extra bucks (though Phil may have had to shut down a couple other studios/games last week instead).
But as a Gamepass subscriber over the last few years, there's certainly been a lot great titles published by MS. Ori 2 was awesome, Forza Horizon 5 still looks amazing, and MS Flight Simulator was probably the most technically impressive game this gen for me. I think I put over 300 hrs in Starfield. Machine Games absolutely nailed the Indy game and I really liked the somewhat faster-paced combat in Avowed (not a fan of turn-based RPGs, so it was nice there was something also for me this year).
I do hope MS corporate realizes that they do have a lot great studios making great games (and they need a lot of them). And, I think they're positioned relatively well for the 2030s, if they maintain the course… and don't gut too many studios. It seems they really intend for the Gamepass – XCloud combo to be the core of their gaming business in the future. It seems to be based around that:
A) Gaming hardware sales will decline, among casual gamers, due to rising hardware costs (I know this may rile up a lot of people)
B) Demographic changes- the % of gamers will increase a bit as the years go by; a higher % of Gen Z women are gamers vs. other generations, etc.
C) Declining interest in other forms of entertainment – gaming interest may exceed that of TV/movie streaming (Netflix may decline) in the 2030s; interest in North American sports leagues may decline (I think some people are really underestimating this one)
Also, I think MS really needs Gamepass for XCloud to be successful, so I hope they keep it going. I still think investing in the gaming industry bodes well in the coming decade(s). But, we will see...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, "too long"- shut up, haha.
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NickFire
Member
They don't have to kill it. Just announce not all games will be day 1 after a certain date. Then scale back how many day 1 occur. Have media friendliest talk about it still being a great service - they have all those CODs if u didn't know, boil that frog and keep lots of revenue.
Moridianae
Member
saintjules
Member
Darkness_Arises
Member
To John's credit, he was not one of the game 'journalists' cheerleading these acquisitions.
RetroGamingUK
Member
We can already see this playing out, a lot of franchises that gained prominence during the Xbox 360 days seem to be dying off. My missis was complaining about the lack of new Bioshock games and I had to explain the develop had gone bust.
Seems like in Japan the old stalwarts like Capcom, Sega and Namco are going to be around for a long time where as a lot of big name American studios are going to go bust.
Looking at the positives, there's possibly big rewards for western indies once this blows over.
Topher
Identifies as young
Someone posted a shot of him saying he had no problem with the acquisition back when all that was going on. Think it was in this thread. If I come across it I'll repost it. Not exactly cheerleading, but his attitude about it has changed dramatically.
KloetenQuetsche
Member
I can't understand that rage against ms.
If AI is the cause of these cuts it's just a more step of evolution.
See it positive. Maybe some useful jobs get done due to many people available.
If AI is the cause of these cuts it's just a more step of evolution.
See it positive. Maybe some useful jobs get done due to many people available.
Topher
Identifies as young
It is a cost-cutting measure to benefit stock holders. It isn't "evolution".
Would you see it as a positive if it were your job being cut?
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RetroGamingUK
Member
AI isn't replacing the developers and artists (hence the game cancellations)
Investment in AI is replacing the investment in gaming.
HYDE
Member
Oh no! Anyways.gif
To clarify…nothing great was lost. Western studios and their games for the most part suck compared to Japanese ones imo.
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RetroGamingUK
Member
I think the only time this wasn't the case was the PS360 generation where there was an influx of previously PC exclusive western developers on console.
Those big names like BioWare and Bethesda have gone to shit since then.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
NeoGaf's favorite and actual gaming journalist
RetroGamingUK
Member
//DEVIL//
Member
To tell the truth, because we were hoping this would give MS a fighting power against Sony. as in to have enough exclusives and big studios to actually push sony into real competition instead of just playing dirty by securing third party games exclusive to their system and locking the xbox out.
no one knew MS would go full retard and fold like a bish spreading her legs wide open and releasing all their games on PlayStation. like what the fuck is that all about.
RetroGamingUK
Member
Unknown?
Member
Sorry, but AI isn't anywhere near what the marketing wants you to believe. It adds almost zero value to humanity. Something's may get done quicker, but the benefit is not there for much of anything.
It's the calculator equivalent to things other than math. Quick and requires no thought.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
The first top comment got me pretty good:
"There's a little nothing for everyone"
bender
What time is it?
laynelane
Member
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