My air is a 2.0 ghz i7 with 8 gb ram and 256 gb ssd hard drive (512 gb was an option). The specs for the pro were an i5 CPU with either 64 or 128 gb hard drive.
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Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
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I didn't mean they look the same. I mean in terms of making a polished well designed piece of hardware, rather than just throwing ports and screens together at random like a lot of OEMs seemingly does.
That's not really what OEMs do, they just have different focus, if they came out and did a presentation like MS did for surface there'd be a 20 minute section on how they reduced the metallic content on the case by 13% reducing overall unit cost by $9, and the Asus fanboys would w00p the place down.
The only apple thing about surface is that MS aren't trying to squeeze every last cent of profit out of it, and that's something you'll only ever get from first party hardware because they want you to keep the device as long as possible where OEMs are hoping you'll see it as a tool you need to replace every couple of years.
Saw this on here
http://www.tested.com/news/44834-microsofts-surface-is-more-than-just-an-ipad-competitor/
Microsoft's Mike Anguilo described the Windows 8 Pro (x86) version of the Surface with one line that resonates with me: "[it has] specs that rival those of the finest ultrabooks that have ever been announced."
like what is the best cpu/hdd/ram combo you can get for an ultrabook right now?
I gotta imagine that' "specs rival those of the finest ultrabooks" line is just marketing hyperbole.
You can get an 11" MacBook Air with a 2Ghz i7 processor, 128GB hard drive, and 8GB RAM for $1349. $2149 if you want to bump it up to a 512 GB SSD. There's an Apple tax on that to be sure but it doesn't come with a touchscreen display, 2 separate digitizers for touch/stylus, or the special digital ink stylus.
I seriously doubt that the Surface Pro is targeting the market for $1300+ laptops, but I suppose it's possible. If Microsoft comes out and announces a price that high, it will seriously take all the wind out of their sales. I imagine that they are aiming for the much more modest $900-$1000 range.
Mike Works
Member
I think the Touch Type definitely would be the one bundled with them, but the question is will any keyboard be bundled with them (as standard, not as a bundle bundle).If any keyboard is going to come bundled in the retail box, I suspect it will be the Touch Type one
Damon Bennet
Member
I didn't mean they look the same. I mean in terms of making a polished well designed piece of hardware, rather than just throwing ports and screens together at random like a lot of OEMs seemingly does.
Becausr good Hardware was Apples ifea
chickdigger802
Banned
I gotta imagine that' "specs rival those of the finest ultrabooks" line is just marketing hyperbole.
You can get an 11" MacBook Air with a 2Ghz i7 processor, 128GB hard drive, and 8GB RAM for $1349. $2149 if you want to bump it up to a 512 GB SSD. There's an Apple tax on that to be sure but it doesn't come with a touchscreen display, 2 separate digitizers for touch/styles use, or the special stylus.
I seriously doubt that the Surface Pro is targeting the market for $1300+ laptops, but I suppose it's possible. If Microsoft comes out and announces a price that high, it will seriously take all the wind out of their sales. I imagine that they are aiming for the much more modest $900-$1000 range.
I personally think that them trying to target the 'mass market' with the pro would be a poor decision. Let the pro be targeted mostly for IT or enterprise. Let it get as powerful/expensive as it can.
And psychological magic is in play. Sure it's 300 in difference, but If someone offers you the option between a 1k tablet and a 1.3k tablet with better specs which would you choose?
Better specs for 'only' $300 more! Well... that's what happened to me when I was laptop shopping lol.
I personally think that them trying to target the 'mass market' with the pro would be a poor decision. Let the pro be targeted mostly for IT or enterprise. Let it get as powerful/expensive as it can.
And psychological magic is in play. Sure it's 300 in difference, but If someone offers you the option between a 1k tablet and a 1.3k tablet with better specs which would you choose?
Better specs for 'only' $300 more! Well... that's what happened to me when I was laptop shopping lol.
Well we already know what the CPU and SSD is, and they are below the high-end ultra books on the market. They match the entry level specs for ultrabooks. So it is kinda too late for that wish.
chickdigger802
Banned
Well we already know what the CPU and SSD is, and they are below the high-end ultra books on the market. They match the entry level specs for ultrabooks. So it is kinda too late for that wish.
Link? Do we? All I see is 'intel i5' and '64gb 128gb' for storage. Nothing more specific on the front.
btw: what is the best i5 mobile you can get these days?
Link? Do we? All I see is 'intel i5' and '64gb 128gb' for storage. Nothing more specific on the front.
btw: what is the best i5 mobile you can get these days?
Yeah and that is enough to know it isn't high end, higher end ultrabooks like the Air go up to the i7 in CPU and allow 256-512 gb SSD's. With the entry level CPU and entry level SSD options the RAM will likely be 4 GB rather than 8 GB like the Air can go up to as well.
I think the Touch Type definitely would be the one bundled with them, but the question is will any keyboard be bundled with them (as standard, not as a bundle bundle).
At this point it seems difficult to say. With 4 different versions of the tablet and potentially 7-14 different versions of the cover, including a cover at the retail level may be difficult. Maybe they'll have a something like a $500 retail version that comes with no cover, and a slightly more expensive online version that includes your choice of cover.
Maybe they're just waiting to gauge reaction to see whether or not they want to bundle it. They do say that "Surface comes with an integrated Kickstand and a revolutionary, 3mm thin, pressure sensitive cover"......so that seems pretty definitive.
Link? Do we? All I see is 'intel i5' and '64gb 128gb' for storage. Nothing more specific on the front.
Go to the Apple Store and actually click on the links for MacBook Air. It will take you to a configuration screen that lets you select an i7, more RAM, and a larger SSD. If Microsoft has already committed to the i5 and the 64/128GB SSDs, then they can't really say their specs rival the finest ultrabooks....which is not necessarily a downside since it lets them have a more competitive price.
Do IT/Enterprise companies want to pay for $1300-$1500 laptops? Some people here say no, others say that it's possible.
chickdigger802
Banned
ah, ok. For some reason I kept seeing i7 as i5 from the posts above lol.
hmmm... the current ux31 (with similar specs to surface info) i have has a 50w/hr battery compare to the 42 on the spec sheet. I get about 4-5 hrs of internet/word/twitter/ usage.
I suspect we can expect at the very least 4 hrs out of the pro?
did MS mention OS optimizations for better battery life of win 7 to win 8?
hmmm... the current ux31 (with similar specs to surface info) i have has a 50w/hr battery compare to the 42 on the spec sheet. I get about 4-5 hrs of internet/word/twitter/ usage.
I suspect we can expect at the very least 4 hrs out of the pro?
did MS mention OS optimizations for better battery life of win 7 to win 8?
ah, ok. For some reason I kept seeing i7 as i5 from the posts above lol.
Yeah, the specs shown for pro match the $1,000 ultrabooks. My i7/8 GB RAM/256 GB SSD Air cost me $1,544.
did MS mention OS optimizations for better battery life of win 7 to win 8?
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2011/11/08/building-a-power-smart-general-purpose-windows.aspx
Yeah and that is enough to know it isn't high end, higher end ultrabooks like the Air go up to the i7 in CPU and allow 256-512 gb SSD's. With the entry level CPU and entry level SSD options the RAM will likely be 4 GB rather than 8 GB like the Air can go up to as well.
This analysis leaves out the superior screen and additional input methods (pen and touch).
Cause it's not a launch it's a reveal. Not revealing the key points cause's people to discuss it, which is probably what they want.
I do feel that there's a possibility that they don't want to release it now and then get undercut by its competition as not everything is lined up yet, eg. Win 8 itself, or production capacity et al.
Quite excited for the Pro, but it is a first-gen Microsoft product and I'd usually like to wait till at least the second/third revision - quite tempting to get the first up version though.
Except he was asking about CPU, ram, and hard drive space point blank? That has nothing to do with anything. Not to mention if it did then iPad would win in a walk since its screen is far far better than any device out there or on the horizon which is a silly notion.This analysis leaves out the superior screen and additional input methods (pen and touch).
Except he was asking about CPU, ram, and hard drive space point blank? That has nothing to do with anythig. Not to mention if it did then iPad would win in a walk since its screen is far far better than any device out there or on the horizon which is a silly notion.
I would think when one is classifying a product as high end one would consider all of these things.
Your iPad reference is similarly cherry picking certain aspects without consideration of the whole package.
One or a certain subset of factors is not determinative.
Well he was asking about the internal specs, the CPU ram and hard drive. And they from what Microsoft has shown are entry level ultrabooks specs. He didn't ask about the screen so it's not like we left that out. I don't see what your problem is with people replying with CPU, ram, and ssd specs when those were the three things directly asked about. That isn't cherry picking. It would be odd to reply with screen resolution when that's not what what was asked. You are looking for some kind of nefarious goal when there wasn't any.I would think when one is classifying a product as high end one would consider all of these things.
Your iPad reference is similarly cherry picking certain aspects without consideration of the whole package.
One or a certain subset of factors is not determinative.
Touch Cover comes in five vibrant colors. Type Cover offers classic typing experience for those who prefer a more traditional keyboard. Pick the one that best meets your needs and represents your sense of style.
Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of that. Does the Touch Cover come in the box? Does the Type cover come in the box? Does either? "Pick the one" makes it sound like it's either a separate purchase or you receive some kind of voucher that lets you get whichever color/type you want.
Seems strange that there hasn't been any clarification......surely some of the journalists at the event must have asked.
Not even sure why we're even debating whether a cover comes with it. They didn't confirm it, not reported as included on most tech sites and it's a tablet whose primary interface is touch. I can't even name at the top of my head of any other tablets that include a cover. So I would just safely bet on the fact that it simply isn't included.
I mean, it's hard to see how they will be able to price the tablet competitively without one. So if they toss a mechanical keyboard cover in there – there's no way they can price it competitively at all. They need to make a profit on these machines too.
IVB is not that chip (Intel's ARM competition is Pine Trail, Medfield, etc), and you bet they're charging a good price for it, as the case is with any 22nm chip they sell. The differentiator between Intel and ARM is already there on the pro: full blown Windows. You are also completely discounting the cost of a good IPS screen + added wacom digitizer.
Apple can keep costs down because they sell tens of millions units of hardware every year. MS doesn't, the most mass produced MS hardware, Xbox 360, is about 10-15M units a year and it's definitely not high quality hardware since it does not include precision crafted parts like a quality LCD screen or metal chassis. MS has no experience mass producing quality hardware by the millions. Since the pro is not going to sell in the tens of millions like the iPad, it's definitely going to be in the $999+ range.
except we already have ultrabooks with i5's in them for $800 bucks. IN another 9 months when this product releases we will see even lower prices.
HP ENY Pro ULtrabook i5 1.7ghz 14 inch screen 4 gigs of ran and 320GB hardrive
you know this because you work at every company ever?Almost no enterprise market will be rolling out surface pros either. What company will give their employees thousand dollar tablets when the vast majority only give cheap dell laptops?
It is downright delusional to think the pro will be big in enterprise. It is way out of the price market CIO's are willing to spend.
The market for thousand dollar laptops/tablets is extremely small. Very few spend that kind of money. Windows pc sales in both the consumer market and enterprise is dominated by laptops that cost far closer to 500 than 1000.
A very cheap dell enterprise focused tablet could take off in the enterprise market but the surface pro is a consumer niche product at best. No one spends that kind of money on hardware.
I am convinced those here and the bloggers who think the pro will be a hit in enterprise have never worked a day in the business side of a IT department in a big corporation.
We just ordered over 130 laptops, with SSDs, i5 processors, each around 1300-1500 after our not for profit and charitable discounts.
I could totally see us getting surface pro's for our people. We tried netbooks, but they didnt like them because they were slow and the keyboards too small. We get asked routinely if they can use ipads, but all of our web base apps, which there are at least 10-15 of only support IE.
Crazymoogle
Member
except we already have ultrabooks with i5's in them for $800 bucks. IN another 9 months when this product releases we will see even lower prices.
HP ENY Pro ULtrabook i5 1.7ghz 14 inch screen 4 gigs of ran and 320GB hardrive
That...is not an Ultrabook by any view except by marketing. 14" and a spinning hard drive blows the weight budget and size budget that defines the dominant Ultrabooks in the marketplace (Macbook Air, Samsung S7, IdeaPad, etc.)
I'm guessing 1099 USD for the bottom-barrel x86 model if Microsoft wants to be price-aggressive, and 1299 if they want to only cater to business.
That...is not an Ultrabook by any view except by marketing. 14" and a spinning hard drive blows the weight budget and size budget that defines the dominant Ultrabooks in the marketplace (Macbook Air, Samsung S7, IdeaPad, etc.)
I'm guessing 1099 USD for the bottom-barrel x86 model if Microsoft wants to be price-aggressive, and 1299 if they want to only cater to business.
It hardly matters
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/321957-321957-64295-5228908-5228906-5271157.html?dnr=1
Here is the same thing with no spinning disc
pcmall.com has it listed at 1,099
It hardly matters
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/321957-321957-64295-5228908-5228906-5271157.html?dnr=1
Here is the same thing with no spinning disc
pcmall.com has it listed at 1,099
The display is still garbage.
Well he was asking about the internal specs, the CPU ram and hard drive. And they from what Microsoft has shown are entry level ultrabooks specs. He didn't ask about the screen so it's not like we left that out. I don't see what your problem is with people replying with CPU, ram, and ssd specs when those were the three things directly asked about. That isn't cherry picking. It would be odd to reply with screen resolution when that's not what what was asked. You are looking for some kind of nefarious goal when there wasn't any.
The quote in question called out the Microsoft person's claim of "specs that rival the finest ultrabooks." From that statement the poster narrowed it to CPU, RAM, and storage as though they are the only specs that are relevant.
Sure there are devices available with faster processors and more storage, but isn't that just half the story in the Post-PC narrative?The Surface Pro screen is, on paper, equal to the best available on ultrabooks as are the input capabilities. I'd guess the product dimensions and weight are at or near the top as well.
If you want to quibble about the internals, have at it. However, classifying the product as 'not high end' seems intellectually dishonest.
Except on paper the specs given are a good deal less than the best available ultrabooks on the market like the MacBook air and the Asus Zenbook Prime though. That is still a very important point that can't be pushed aside. But it doesn't matter. Microsoft isn't going to push it as a top of the line ultrabooks, if you want powerful specs get a ultrabook not a surface.The Surface Pro screen is, on paper, equal to the best available on ultrabooks as are the input capabilities. .
Except on paper the specs given are a good deal less than the best available ultrabooks on the market like the MacBook air and the Asus Zenbook Prime though. That is still a very important point that can't be pushed aside. But it doesn't matter. Microsoft isn't going to push it as a top of the line ultrabooks, if you want powerful specs get a ultrabook not a surface.
On paper, the specs of the Mac Book Air's screen show roughly half the number of pixels and an inferior panel technology. The Prime matches the Surface.
Both the Air and the Prime lack pen and touch support.
These are device specs, too, and shouldn't be pushed aside.
Edit: I'd say if you want powerful specs you shouldn't look at Ultrabooks at all.
Crazymoogle
Member
It hardly matters
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/321957-321957-64295-5228908-5228906-5271157.html?dnr=1
Here is the same thing with no spinning disc
pcmall.com has it listed at 1,099
Great? You just linked a 13" laptop that is basically a heavier Macbook Air with the same price? That's in the same price realm I just suggested?
Except on paper the specs given are a good deal less than the best available ultrabooks on the market like the MacBook air and the Asus Zenbook Prime though. That is still a very important point that can't be pushed aside. But it doesn't matter. Microsoft isn't going to push it as a top of the line ultrabooks, if you want powerful specs get a ultrabook not a surface.
Considering it's not an ultrabook, why would they push it as an ultrabook?
They compared it to an ultrabook at the event as its pricing tierConsidering it's not an ultrabook, why would they push it as an ultrabook?
Dreams-Visions
Member
ah, ok. For some reason I kept seeing i7 as i5 from the posts above lol.
hmmm... the current ux31 (with similar specs to surface info) i have has a 50w/hr battery compare to the 42 on the spec sheet. I get about 4-5 hrs of internet/word/twitter/ usage.
I suspect we can expect at the very least 4 hrs out of the pro?
did MS mention OS optimizations for better battery life of win 7 to win 8?
Just because it needs to be said: 4 hours of battery life is not acceptable in the tablet market in 2012/2013.
If it's not clocking in at 6 hours or more under normal use, people will be very unhappy. People will want to know why they're not getting the 8-10 hours of battery life that tablets have been getting for the last few years and I don't know if everyone will accept the technical answer.
4-5 hour battery is a deal-breaker in my book.
They compared it to an ultrabook at the event as its pricing tier
My sandwich costs as much as a slice of pizza. Sandwiches are now pizza.
0.04 kg heavierGreat? You just linked a 13" laptop that is basically a heavier Macbook Air with the same price? That's in the same price realm I just suggested?
Crazymoogle
Member
0.04 kg heavier
yep?
So...HP has a similarly priced laptop! Which doesn't change my pricing guess
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
My sandwich costs as must as a slice of pizza. Sandwiches are now pizza.
wow i never knew that was a secret metaphor. and here i was thinking is was a rough price estimation. well fuck M$, from now on i am gonna over analyze everything like an uninformed ass.
it isnt much, nothing i would notice to be honestyep?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Just because it needs to be said: 4 hours of battery life is not acceptable in the tablet market in 2012/2013.
If it's not clocking in at 6 hours or more under normal use, people will be very unhappy. People will want to know why they're not getting the 8-10 hours of battery life that tablets have been getting for the last few years and I don't know if everyone will accept the technical answer.
4-5 hour battery is a deal-breaker in my book.
For the Pro? I doubt that. People will be comparing it to the laptop they just ditched, not to the iPad that they found as not quite matching their needs (or they would have one already).
except there is another 8 to 9 months till release of this projectyep?
So...HP has a similarly priced laptop! Which doesn't change my pricing guess
Complex Shadow
Cudi Lame
it isnt much, nothing i would notice to be honest
no, your wrong, don't you see?! its heavy!! that 0.04 kg is like a fucking ton. we need to go lighter, i won't be satisfied until its lighter than helium.
Dreams-Visions
Member
For the Pro? I doubt that. People will be comparing it to the laptop they just ditched, not to the iPad that they found as not quite matching their needs (or they would have one already).
Then that's an even worse proposition, considering several laptops with this sort of power get better than 8 hours of battery life. Acer Timeline series, for example. I don't expect that the masses will want to jump to a machine that has no better battery life than their more powerful laptops and that sacrifices the replaceable battery.
Sorry, but 4-5 hours of battery life for a tablet device in 2012 is a joke. That's what my 2008 TabletPC gets. I've moved on and my expectations are higher to match. It's not acceptable. Hopefully Microsoft is more reasonable than you on this point.
Why wouldn't it get 8-10 hour life ? Ultra books are getting that with the same size battery and Ms has a smaller screen and have made optimisations to reduce battery drainThen that's an even worse proposition, considering several laptops with this sort of power get better than 8 hours of battery life. Acer Timeline series, for example. I don't expect that the masses will want to jump to a machine that has no better battery life than their more powerful laptops and that sacrifices the replaceable battery.
o
Sorry, but 4-5 hours of battery life for a tablet device in 2012 is a joke. That's what my 2008 TabletPC gets. I've moved on and my expectations are higher to match. It's not acceptable. Hopefully Microsoft is more reasonable than you on this point.
Crazymoogle
Member
except there is another 8 to 9 months till release of this project
Haven't seen anything in Ultrabook pricing lately to say the price would take a steep dip in that timeframe. If anything it just puts them closer to the window for the next Intel part.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I think people value weight over battery life. I know I do.
4-5 is plenty for most people, even travelling.
4-5 is plenty for most people, even travelling.
By which time the Apple App Store will have over 1 million apps, iPad 4 will come out, and the iPhone 5 craze will be in full force. Not to mention the transition of more macs to retina displays and iOS 7 beta will be out with even more features. Who knows, there's even talk of a $299 7" iPad as well.except there is another 8 to 9 months till release of this project
which is when Intel chips are at its cheapest. Ssd rice's are also falling too. 128 gig is predicted to drop under $100 and 256 drives are going to be at sub $180 pricesHaven't seen anything in Ultrabook pricing lately to say the price would take a steep dip in that timeframe. If anything it just puts them closer to the window for the next Intel part.
and who cares ? Someone buying the pro won't be interested in that stuffBy which time the Apple App Store will have over 1 million apps, iPad 4 will come out, and the iPhone 5 craze will be in full force. Not to mention the transition of more macs to retina displays and iOS 7 beta will be out with even more features. Who knows, there's even talk of a $299 7" iPad as well.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself.I think people value weight over battery life. I know I do.
4-5 is plenty for most people, even travelling.
4-5 hours is not good enough for me. Especially when travelling.
The difference between 4 hours and 8-12 hours is having to worry about how much battery life I have. It's the difference between having to find space for a charger in my bag and not...having to buy bigger bags....and accounting for the additional weight. It means not being as compact as I want to be. It means feeling like I need to be tethered to the wall. It means watching the battery life bar constantly.
I certainly hope that it does. I'm just commenting on people's suggestion that 4-5 hours is enough. It's not.Why wouldn't it get 8-10 hour life ? Ultra books are getting that with the same size battery and Ms has a smaller screen and have made optimisations to reduce battery drain
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Don't presume to speak for anyone but yourself.
4-5 hours is not good enough for me. Especially when travelling.
...
I certainly hope that it does. I'm just commenting on people's suggestion that 4-5 hours is enough. It's not.
Then don't do the same. That's why I said "I think." You are posting your opinion like it's a law of the market.
4 hours of battery life is not acceptable in the tablet market in 2012/2013.
If it's not clocking in at 6 hours or more under normal use, people will be very unhappy. People will want to know why they're not getting the 8-10 hours of battery life that tablets have been getting for the last few years and I don't know if everyone will accept the technical answer.
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