RT surface is using the same Tegra3 CPU as the nexus 7
Pro is using a ULV ivy bridge chip.
So theres no comparison in terms of value. Save your money for the pro.
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Microsoft Surface Tablet announced
- Thread starter Windu
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RT surface is using the same Tegra3 CPU as the nexus 7
Pro is using a ULV ivy bridge chip.
So theres no comparison in terms of value. Save your money for the pro.
elrechazado
Banned
....intellectually dishonest? wtf are you talking about?
Office and i'm sure there are some technical reasons.
Office, I'm assuming.
Well, not really. Microsoft designed Metro to work with touchpads and keyboards (and to a lesser extent, mice). It might not be the best but after using it for a while it actually works really well without touch, compared to Android at least. I could see a Windows RT laptop working just fine.
They really couldn't get Office to work without the desktop? I mean -- obviously not since it is the way it is, but I can't fathom how a huge company like Microsoft couldn't get something so simple in concept to come to fruition.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Has MS or anyone ever said why they're waiting with the pro? 3rd parties obviously seem ready to go with pro devices. So if I were to guess I come up with:
1) avoid surface confusion with RT/Pro during launch of windows 8/surface brand.
2) waiting for haswell (the dream)
3) lol microsoft that's why
4) build concerns
1) avoid surface confusion with RT/Pro during launch of windows 8/surface brand.
2) waiting for haswell (the dream)
3) lol microsoft that's why
4) build concerns
Haswell is coming out in March, right? I might wait for that, actually.
Yeah, but overloading people with extra details is not the best way to introduce a new product.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
who knows when MS will put it in surface Pros though
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
I believe it would be a rather massive undertaking.
As is their efforts to re-build office for iOS. But we'll have to wait and see even how full-featured that is.
Office is a product that is heavily tied into the Windows API. So they had a choice to make.. either take everything Office does API wise and create the ARM equivalent, then port over...
Or ground up Office for ARM.
Considering things like OLE, the fact that Office is also a development environment essentially, etc...
I think ground up Office for ARM that is missing huge chunks of Office's functionality would have been an even bigger effort than just porting the existing underlying pieces of the "Desktop" architecture over to ARM that Office needs.
They could have done that and then hacked it all into the Metro UI somehow.. but it seems like they just decided not too.
As early as Q1, so it could be available in some products as early as January I think. Probably won't be widely available until April-May.
Considering mobile is what Intel is focusing on as a business strategy, I'm betting we'll see it release in this order:
1. Laptops/tablets
2. Desktops.
...
...
3. Xeon.
Also have to consider the new app platform is still very new.... it likely doesn't have all the internal stuff necessary to run real office yet (just look at how the other base apps have been coming along and those are very simple compared to something like office)
That said I think the onenote mx app is how office in metro will be done (if you want to see what many consider an early basic preview). They will continue to iterate on that design and bring it to the rest of office for the next major version.
nVidiot_Whore
Banned
Yeah that's sort of what I was referring to with OLE and whatnot. It's an entirely different architecture for how applications execute. It has ties into all kinds of other underlying Microsoft technologies like ActiveX.
I think what they didn't want to do is just include all of that legacy stuff into the Metro portion of WinRT.
Instead it's more of a straight port of all aspects of Windows required for Office to function on ARM.
It's not just "not ready" it's also just not designed to be as complex as office is.. embedding objects that actually represent other applications that have to be loaded into memory, etc. isn't necessarily what they WANT out of the OS that they are having other developers target. Which is much more sandboxed and controlled and meant to encourage minimal and predictable usage of memory.
A full Metro version of Office + abandoning the RT desktop may be an end goal for sure.
I think it's the most awkward aspect of RT.. while also an extremely important part of it's value proposition in having "Full blown Office" that might have not been attainable without the awkward hacked in Desktop mode. (my opinion)
In general I wonder how much of the ARM porting was just a huge waste.
Will Intel reach parity with ARM on it's previous portable advantages? Power consumption, small form factor, and low(ish) price?
Seems like that's the big news this year.. not something MS would necessarily have known when they thought up RT.. but man.. seems like a year from now the entire reason for them to port to ARM might just get thrown out of the window.
I love the onenote mx preview....the circular ribbon needs to become standard in all metro apps
LukasTaves
Member
I don't think Ms will completely remove the desktop on the RT version... On the contrary, i can see they expanding it in the future allowing certified applications to run. They said they had to hugely change the internals of office and the desktop itself to comply with the performance and battery requirements of arm... Having all the trouble to port all that just so they can ditch later sounds a lot less likely than in the future allowing selected partners to make the same adjustments to their existing software.
Steelyuhas
Member
alright, i'd say its a pretty good bet that Surface with Windows 8 Pro will be priced like this:
$799.00 - 64GB
$899.00 - 64GB with Black Touch Cover
$999.00 - 128GB with Black Touch Cover
that would fall in line with Surface with Windows RT which is:
$499.00 - 32GB
$599.00 - 32GB with Black Touch Cover
$699.00 - 64GB with Black Touch Cover
and lets say it releases January 26th.
$799.00 - 64GB
$899.00 - 64GB with Black Touch Cover
$999.00 - 128GB with Black Touch Cover
that would fall in line with Surface with Windows RT which is:
$499.00 - 32GB
$599.00 - 32GB with Black Touch Cover
$699.00 - 64GB with Black Touch Cover
and lets say it releases January 26th.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
That would be nice. Aka not happening.
Shogmaster
Member
Haha no. Samsung's ATIV Smart PC Pro price is indicative of Surface Pro's price: ~$1200 for 128GB.
hmm well we'll see
Shogmaster
Member
Already have one ban bet over this. I don't mind having more.
Do people really not know you work for Samsung?
jk ban bet him
Dreams-Visions
Member
you're in dreamland if you think Surface Pro will come out at $800 bro.
shit ain't happenin. but if it does, I'll be even happier. I'm ready to drop 1200.
Reminds me of how 72 hours ago people thought the SurfaceRT was going to be like $300-400 with the Touch Cover included in all models. What heady, bygone days those were!
If anything the RT model pricing should make you way less optimistic about the pricing on the Pro model. I'm guessing they will start at $999 (without a cover) and only go up from there.
Microsoft said that the RT would be comparably priced to other ARM tablets, then they matched the price of the iPad for RT. Microsoft said the Pro would be priced similar to ultrabooks, so they will probably match the price of the MacBook Air.
ok well its a best case scenario lol. you are probably right I guess on the 1200. Researching it more I guess it will be $999+. There are some $800 ultrabook, not sure how much the touch screen adds though.
I probably won't get Surface with Windows 8 Pro though, unless they say it works well in your lap (which I don't think it will) then I will get something else.
edit: and yeah I guess price matching the Air would fall in line with everything else Microsoft has done.
I probably won't get Surface with Windows 8 Pro though, unless they say it works well in your lap (which I don't think it will) then I will get something else.
edit: and yeah I guess price matching the Air would fall in line with everything else Microsoft has done.
Shogmaster
Member
LOL, I usually get accused of working for Wacom. Who will I be accused of working for next?
brotkasten
Member
who knows when MS will put it in surface Pros though
It's H1 2013 instead of Q1 2013 now. Haswell for the Pro is out of question and the spec page says 3rd gen i5, which is Ivy Bridge.
LOL, I usually get accused of working for Wacom. Who will I be accused of working for next?
Argosy U
Canis lupus
Member
The prices for RT are high, I was holding out for Surface Pro, but that will cost around or even more than 1000 euros, not paying that much for a tablet.
Wiktor
Member
Yeah. I can pay 1000 or more for real laptop hybrid, because it's still the same as buying a decent laptop plus a tablet, but that much for surface pro? Nope.
brotkasten
Member
People should stop seeing the Surface Pro as "a tablet". It's an Ultrabook without the keyboard. That's why it's going to be that expensive.
There will be enough cheap Atom tablets.
So choice time:
I cannot get both and RT and Pro now - that is just a waste of money.
My family household contains:
- Ivy Bridge custom desktop running windows 8 [communal]
- iPad 2 [communal]
- A 5 year old core 2 duo laptop running windows 8 [personal]
I suppose my choices now are:
- Wait for Surface Pro, effectively replacing the laptop
- Get a Surface RT now, and wait for a Surface Pro vNext with Haswell and 3G/4G
- Not get anything
Any advice?
I cannot get both and RT and Pro now - that is just a waste of money.
My family household contains:
- Ivy Bridge custom desktop running windows 8 [communal]
- iPad 2 [communal]
- A 5 year old core 2 duo laptop running windows 8 [personal]
I suppose my choices now are:
- Wait for Surface Pro, effectively replacing the laptop
- Get a Surface RT now, and wait for a Surface Pro vNext with Haswell and 3G/4G
- Not get anything
Any advice?
4th option - buy one of the other kajillion windows 8 and RT machines coming to market
None of the others interest me in the way that the Surface does. I especially am fond of the kickstand, touch cover and VapourMg case.
Wiktor
Member
The problem is..it's not really that. It's just a tablet with good specs.
Penguins&PolarBears
Member
It is a tablet though and the question is whether there will be a market for $1,000 tablets yet. Ideally like laptops there would be a tablet market that ranges from $200-$2,000 and there would be plenty of choice for consumers that run the gamut.
There's this dumb idea right now that a tablet has to be this sub $600 device since it's limited in functionality. But Windows 8 is trying real hard to break this perception of a tablet as a limited purpose computer. The reality I believe is that the tablet is just the computer of the future, or the evolution of the personal computer in all it's forms. It's merely a question of how long it's going to take for OEMs to stop making old fashioned laptops and start primarily making evolved versions with removable touch screens.
It's only recently that smartphones have started outselling feature phones. The same will happen eventually with tablets/hybrids versus old style PCs. I wonder though if the process will be accelerated because Windows 8 and more importantly Windows 8 apps have been designed in a way to make you feel like you're missing something by not having a touch screen. Right now Surface is just a curiosity; something that people want to try out to see if they like it. But when we get a million apps deep into WinRT this won't be a curiosity anymore, this will start to feel like a necessity. And once it's a necessity then the obsession becomes that of performance and suddenly $1,000 doesn't seem very unreasonable.
storafötter
Member
The price of the RT tablet is very disappointing. It only indicates that Surface Pro will be at least 1200 dollars. I am uncertain if I want to get Slate 7, but the price is making me lean more towards Slate 5. I mean these things wont yet be able to play high end games anyways despite their increase in power. Battery life, portability, wacom pen and windows opportunities matters more to me in the end.
Putting aside the issue of the current "definition" of a tablet, how is it not an Ultrabook? The specifications are similar and it can do more things than most Ultraboooks can.
storafötter;43332196 said:
They can at least play games. The Atom in the Slate 5 probably won't be able to run Half-life 2, much less any modern game.
The pitfall of Ivy Bridge-based devices is that they don't support Connected Standby like ARM and Atom do, so you won't receive notifications and background processes won't run whilst the device is locked.
edit: After doing a bit more research I think they can (and do) perform background tasks, but the battery life will be a lot lower. Microsoft says the Surface RT can idle (whilst recieving notifications, etc) for 1-2 weeks,
storafötter
Member
Of course that is a good point. However I do remember someone on youtube playing Starcraft 2 on a slate but I suppose it was an older 7 model. As long as a slate 5 can play Windows 8 store games, GOG and low tech indie games on steam I am more than satisfied. I am actually using an ancient old laptop right now as we speak with a pitiful 2GB ram.
brotkasten
Member
storafötter;43332697 said:
The Samsung ATIV/SmartPC/Slate/WHATEVER has only 2 GB RAM.
That's why I don't trust these x86 tablets. As if the Atom doesn't sound weak enough, they all come with only 2 GB RAM. What is this? 2004?
Frustrated_me
Member
I'm on the complete purchase screen and having this error on microsoft.com "Sorry! Something went wrong. While we're fixing it, please try using the back button or refresh the page and try again."
:-/
:-/
You got me all excited, but Anand says June
The more I see of this lineup the more I want to wait for this time next year.
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