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[PaintTinJr]

The FTC's case was shoddy as hell. It doesn't declaw the regulator. They've been able to shut down proposed mergers when their cases had merit.

Just last December 2024, they won and shut down the proposed $25 billion merger of Kroger and Albertsons. They were not 'declawed' then.

Their argument that MS was going to use the ABK purchase to harm PlayStation and diminish competition has ultimately been shown to be completely daft.

They hadn't made their full argument, the big business was able to stop them fully forming an opinion prior to the deal closing,

So their argument being shoddy as you put it is a complete strawman when they weren't ready to make their full argument.

Maybe their argument would have been that the deal would have resulted in lots of redundancies trigger an industry wide set of redundancies. They may have even argued that the deal would lead to Microsoft taking Xbox 3rd party and lowering competition in hardware resulting in widespread price rises on subs, games and hardware, but we'll never know because the FTC was declawed, and so declawed that in Europe and Britain the public would consider it way too powerless to do real regulation after that ruling.

Maybe Americans think that is the right solution, but I can't bend my head around it, and I'm pretty sure if a big company like Apple was buying someone like HP or IBM, or Intel, AMD, etc and they bypassed the FTC in the same way, Microsoft would regret that play that changed the burden of proof for the FTC to get an injunction.

 

[username12]

How would they unwind this deal after a year and a half?

 

[Shifty1897]

Congratulations, you played yourself.

 

[Ozriel]

They hadn't made their full argument, the big business was able to stop them fully forming an opinion prior to the deal closing,

So their argument being shoddy as you put it is a complete strawman when they weren't ready to make their full argument.

Maybe their argument would have been that the deal would have resulted in lots of redundancies trigger an industry wide set of redundancies. They may have even argued that the deal would lead to Microsoft taking Xbox 3rd party and lowering competition in hardware resulting in widespread price rises on subs, games and hardware, but we'll never know because the FTC was declawed, and so declawed that in Europe and Britain the public would consider it way too powerless to do real regulation after that ruling.

Nah. We all don't have amnesia. They spent days in court making their arguments. It was weak and they rightly lost.

Maybe Americans think that is the right solution, but I can't bend my head around it, and I'm pretty sure if a big company like Apple was buying someone like HP or IBM, or Intel, AMD, etc and they bypassed the FTC in the same way, Microsoft would regret that play that changed the burden of proof for the FTC to get an injunction.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what happened. They closed as soon as the EU and CMA approved, because they knew the FTC had pretty much no chance of winning their case. And the FTC's arguments looked even more stupid after the water tight concessions the CMA and EU extracted from them.

Your example doesn't work, because Apple would never take that risk, since there'd be a high chance of the FTC blocking it successfully, and they'd have to pay significant unwinding fines.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Nah. We all don't have amnesia. They spent days in court making their arguments. It was weak and they rightly lost.

You clearly do, they argued they weren't ready and the burden of proof of harm was - as the law was always understood prior to that - many times lower than what Microsoft got the court to demand of the FTC. The FTC had planned to investigate for a long period, as they explained at the time, so it wasn't an argument, but a last throw of the dice because Microsoft got the court to tell the FTC, it is now or never.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand what happened. They closed as soon as the EU and CMA approved, because they knew the FTC had pretty much no chance of winning their case. And the FTC's arguments looked even more stupid after the water tight concessions the CMA and EU extracted from them.

Your example doesn't work, because Apple would never take that risk, since there'd be a high chance of the FTC blocking it successfully, and they'd have to pay significant unwinding fines.

No I don't at all, American regulation is weak, very weak compared to regulation in the Eu and UK, and even saying the concession in the EU and UK made the FTC look stupid, when A they had been denied the time to bring their case, and B, the FTC - like the CMA in the UK - has a responsibility to the US, not the UK or EU, and assuming that one county's concession address another regulators main issues is another strawman.

The FTC should have got an injunction and been cleared to investigate the acquisition fully before bringing a case against it. That's sensible regulation, especially in a country that had a stock market crash just over 100years ago, making Die Hard 4.0's firesale look like nothing compared to the scenes depicting the US as a 3rd world country in the awarding winning Grapes of Wrath film.

But hey, if you think the FTC weren't declawed then who am I to convince you otherwise?

 

[bitbydeath]

The real winner of this whole debacle? PlayStation.

For $0 they keep all Activision, Bethesda, etc games on PS5 and also get Halo, Gears, Forza and any other previously Xbox exclusive games.

Ftfy.

All gamers won, even Xbox fans!
Who now get to experience the joys of playing games on a PlayStation or PC.

 

[Deerock71]

 

[AREYOUOKAY?]

Who cares they aren't fixing Activision or Blizzard.

 

[adamsapple]

Maybe Americans think that is the right solution, but I can't bend my head around it, and I'm pretty sure if a big company like Apple was buying someone like HP or IBM, or Intel, AMD, etc and they bypassed the FTC in the same way, Microsoft would regret that play that changed the burden of proof for the FTC to get an injunction.

????

The merger was approved globally.

What are you even talking about in your bizarre posts?

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Hope Microsoft buys out the company and give us a great high budget single player Starcraft Ghost game with a multiplayer mode. Maybe a single player AAA Warcraft game too.

 

[ReBurn]

????

The merger was approved globally.

What are you even talking about in your bizarre posts?

I think he's just doesn't understand how US regulation works and that the FTC doesn't have unilateral power to halt mergers, but actually has to prove in court that a merger would result in an illegal entity in order to halt it. The burden of proof was always on the FTC.

 

[ArtHands]

It was pretty obvious that they were going to lose anyway. Even Sony gave up fighting it midway back then

 

[poppabk]

In the end this ruling wasn't about ATVI, and more about the power of the FTC, and this ruling basically makes them powerless in the US compared to the CMA in the UK.

The outcome IIRC now means they can't get an injunction on a trade deal before it closes without proving in full their case against a merger. A little bit like needing to be ready to prove a case against a criminal in full to send them to jail just to get a search warrant.

I fail to see how anyone outside the US would consider this a good outcome, because it declaws regulators completely against the biggest companies IMO,

I mean if the regulators are dumb and try to regulate stuff that doesn't need regulating - then them getting their ass handed to them is a good thing.

 

[ArtHands]

FTC framed their argument around "but what about Sony!?"

I be shock if they win.

 

[Puscifer]

The real winner of this whole debacle? PlayStation.

For $0 they keep all Activision, Bethesda, etc games on PS5 and also get Halo, Gears, Forza and any other previously Xbox exclusive games.

No shit, I can't lie it really seemed bleak when they acquired them but lol when console sales didn't move an inch.

 

[PaintTinJr]

????

The merger was approved globally.

What are you even talking about in your bizarre posts?

It was approved by 2 of the 3 main regulators with different caveats that Microsoft were forced to accept. Only in the US did the regulator get beaten in court - but not on the common sense view that the merger was likely to be bad for business and the games industry - and were left so declawed by the change to how they could get an injunction that they had zero power to get any concessions like the other two major regulators.

That isn't globally approved when one is still against it but powerless, is it?

 

[PaintTinJr]

I mean if the regulators are dumb and try to regulate stuff that doesn't need regulating - then them getting their ass handed to them is a good thing.

So the presumably 50-100k jobs lost in gaming triggered by the redundancies started by Microsoft following the buyout would have been a nothing bugger and not worth regulating against?

 

[Hudo]

In the end sony won.

We all lost, tbh.

 

[Mattyp]

Bro, Sony and Nintendo both outpace Microsoft in revenue even after ABK closed. Both are significantly more profitable too.

3P players generally don't make as much as successful 1P ones in this industry.

Microsoft has been ahead of Nintendo for years even before ABK in revenue, they're only behind Sony and closed the gap with ABK.

Sony $10 Billion
Xbox $6 Billion

Per quarter.

Nintendo for all of last years 4 quarters was just over $10 billion.

Impressive when you consider Xbox has 1/4 the install base compared to either of these apparently…

 

[Drell]

In the end this ruling wasn't about ATVI, and more about the power of the FTC, and this ruling basically makes them powerless in the US compared to the CMA in the UK.

The outcome IIRC now means they can't get an injunction on a trade deal before it closes without proving in full their case against a merger. A little bit like needing to be ready to prove a case against a criminal in full to send them to jail just to get a search warrant.

I fail to see how anyone outside the US would consider this a good outcome, because it declaws regulators completely against the biggest companies IMO,

Yeah people are rejoicing over the consquence of MS strategy changing to going third party but forget the elephant in the room:

This lawsuit made the FTC looking absolutely powerless, EU regulators were a bunch of clowns unrolling the red carpet to their american "saviors" day one and the CMA were the only ones standing their grounds but gave up in the end.

I'm sure Microsoft saw this as a sign that it might become even easier to buy anything they want witvout resistance. And now they just have the new excuse of giving their games to everyone.

 

[AJUMP23]

This was Biden administration anti business garbage.

 

[Orbital2060]

No surprise, and the new FTC chair is not going to stand in the way of further acquisitions either.

Andrew N. Ferguson Takes Over as FTC Chairman

Andrew N. Ferguson was officially designated as Chairman of the Federal Trade Commission by President Trump on Monday, January 20, 2025.

www.ftc.gov

 

[Astray]

Microsoft has been ahead of Nintendo for years even before ABK in revenue, they're only behind Sony and closed the gap with ABK.

Sony $10 Billion
Xbox $6 Billion

Per quarter.

Nintendo for all of last years 4 quarters was just over $10 billion.

Impressive when you consider Xbox has 1/4 the install base compared to either of these apparently…

Revenue is vanity
Profit is sanity.

Post MS gaming profits if you have them please.. Who gives a shit about revenue when the trading entity is potentially loss-making?

 

[adamsapple]

It was approved by 2 of the 3 main regulators with different caveats that Microsoft were forced to accept. Only in the US did the regulator get beaten in court - but not on the common sense view that the merger was likely to be bad for business and the games industry - and were left so declawed by the change to how they could get an injunction that they had zero power to get any concessions like the other two major regulators.

That isn't globally approved when one is still against it but powerless, is it?

Yes, it is globally approved. FTC brought the lawsuit, the onus was on them to prove their argument in the court.

They failed.

End of.

 

[ReBurn]

Yeah people are rejoicing over the consquence of MS strategy changing to going third party but forget the elephant in the room:

This lawsuit made the FTC looking absolutely powerless, EU regulators were a bunch of clowns unrolling the red carpet to their american "saviors" day one and the CMA were the only ones standing their grounds but gave up in the end.

I'm sure Microsoft saw this as a sign that it might become even easier to buy anything they want witvout resistance. And now they just have the new excuse of giving their games to everyone.

The FTC looked powerless because they aren't supposed to have independent authority to regulate trade as the commission sees fit, they have to regulate according to the law. They can be challenged in federal courts and the courts can deem any actions based on the outcome of their internal administrative proceedings unlawful and unenforceable. Right or wrong, it's long been determined in the US that corporations have the right to due process under the law. It doesn't mean that Microsoft's purchase of Activision was good, moral or ethical. But at the end of the day the FTC couldn't prove it wasn't legal, which is why they lost.

 

[PaintTinJr]

The FTC looked powerless because they aren't supposed to have independent authority to regulate trade as the commission sees fit, they have to regulate according to the law. They can be challenged in federal courts and the courts can deem any actions based on the outcome of their internal administrative proceedings unlawful and unenforceable. Right or wrong, it's long been determined in the US that corporations have the right to due process under the law. It doesn't mean that Microsoft's purchase of Activision was good, moral or ethical. But at the end of the day the FTC couldn't prove it wasn't legal, which is why they lost.

I know that, and even in the EU and UK that is still the case too, but the regulators in the UK and EU are rightfully (IMO) held at a higher levels like a Police detective and given ample latitude and time to gather evidence without the accused calling the shots like it is (now) in the US following MS successful legal challenge of the FTC's right to get an automatic "temporary" injunction.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Yeah people are rejoicing over the consquence of MS strategy changing to going third party but forget the elephant in the room:

This lawsuit made the FTC looking absolutely powerless, EU regulators were a bunch of clowns unrolling the red carpet to their american "saviors" day one and the CMA were the only ones standing their grounds but gave up in the end.

I'm sure Microsoft saw this as a sign that it might become even easier to buy anything they want witvout resistance. And now they just have the new excuse of giving their games to everyone.

I wonder if the CMA would have acted differently had they known in advance the FTC would be unable to get an injunction to investigate, and if in future the CMA do the job for both.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

Congrats! Couldn't have happened to a nicer multi billion dollar mega corporation!

 

[DeepEnigma]

Hope Microsoft buys out the company and give us a great high budget single player Starcraft Ghost game with a multiplayer mode. Maybe a single player AAA Warcraft game too.

Yeah, just after their other massive vault of IPs they have not, and will not do shit with.

 

[mckmas8808]

Come on FTC

Seriously, it's over.

 

[Drell]

The FTC looked powerless because they aren't supposed to have independent authority to regulate trade as the commission sees fit, they have to regulate according to the law. They can be challenged in federal courts and the courts can deem any actions based on the outcome of their internal administrative proceedings unlawful and unenforceable. Right or wrong, it's long been determined in the US that corporations have the right to due process under the law. It doesn't mean that Microsoft's purchase of Activision was good, moral or ethical. But at the end of the day the FTC couldn't prove it wasn't legal, which is why they lost.

Well obviously it was legal since they were given the right to do it in the end. But you don't have to be a genius to realize that one of the richest company in the world buying the biggest publisher for an astronomical price that only them could pay is unethical and anti-competitve. The fact the FRC couldn't prove it was illegal is beyond the point and just shows that the legal system is just there to be manipulated as you wish when you're the richest.

 

[Mattyp]

Revenue is vanity
Profit is sanity.

Post MS gaming profits if you have them please.. Who gives a shit about revenue when the trading entity is potentially loss-making?

There's no way Xbox gaming is posting a loss unless you think their operating costs are over $20 billion a year.

So 200 AAA games produced per year. Their profit margin would be close to that of Sonys they operate very similar most likely better as they're not relying on hardware and the majority is software revenue.

Would you rather a company turning over $200 billion in revenue and $10 million profit or one turning over $50 million and $20 million in profit?

 

[StueyDuck]

Gaming would have been even worse if there hadn't been any blowback to MS.

but damn the FTC tryna milk it hey

 

[Goalus]

War is over.

 

[sendit]

War is over.

FTC probably saw no reason beating a dead horse. Within the past two years, Microsoft has gone full third party.

 

[Baemono]

War is over.

Pyrrhic victory

 

[Fahdis]

The real winner of this whole debacle? PlayStation.

For $0 they keep all Activision, Bethesda, etc games on PS5 and also get Halo, Gears, Forza and any other previously Xbox exclusive games.

The deal is only for 10 years.

 

[Baemono]

The deal is only for 10 years.

I'm sure they'll stop putting CoD on PS after 10 years

 

[JaxarGT]

We all lost, tbh.

As the owner of a PS5 Pro, I disagree.

 

[jm89]

The deal is only for 10 years.

That deal is mostly meaningless lol.

MS are tripping over themselves to put all their stuff on playstation, regardless of any deals.

I guess one benefit for sony is MS can't do any exclsuive content, i do remember that being mentioned as part of the deal.

 

[Elios83]

Microsoft went full third party like Sega so most of the arguments FTC had don't have a ground to stand on anymore.
The appeal was infact based just on the fact that the previous judge was applying a wrong legal standard requiring them to prove that an anti-competitive plan was in place and that competitors would be forced to close shop after the acquisition, which was not happening anyway.
Now the only thing left would be that less competition among publishers means higher prices for both services and games but everyone is increasing prices so it's impossible to blame this on the acquisition.

In the end the acquisition had the opposite effect of what MS fanboys were hoping for

 

[nani17]

The FTC has officially dropped its legal case against Microsoft following the American tech giant's aquisition of Activision Blizzard in 2023. Microsoft is now free from scrutiny, and can now proceed with all manner of business shenanigans with Activision Blizzard in tow without worrying about the courts.

This legal battle, which has been raging for roughly the past two years, concluded as the FTC filed an order to dismiss its case. This comes now as the FTC recently had its appeal for an injunction on the aquisition declined, meaning in simple terms the FTC didn't really have any more cards left to play.Brad Smith, Microsoft Vice Chair, responded to the announcement gleefully in social media, posting: "Today's decision is a victory for players across the country and for common sense in Washington, D.C. We are grateful to the FTC for today's announcement."

The FTC, in its filing to withdraw from this legal battle, conceeding the clash with the following statement: "The Commission has determined that the public interest is best served by dismissing the administrative litigation in this case. Accordingly, IT IS HEREBY ORDERED that the Complaint in this matter be, and it hereby is, DISMISSED."

So that's that. The end of a saga of great legal consequence for the video game industry. Now, Microsoft is free to spread the wings it has recently bought and strapped on, and fly out in pursuit of large sums of money unimpeded. Whether or not the FTC's fears were well placed, and Microsoft will start leaning on the large market share it now has, is something video game fans will have to keep an eye out for.

 

[Gaiff]

War is over.

War is over indeed. Microsoft has dropped out of the fight against Sony.

 

[Karim]

 

[Fahdis]

I'm sure they'll stop putting CoD on PS after 10 years

Depends on where PlayStation is at in 10 years or if Xbox brand still exists. Also, isn't it Sony Pidgeons to the Green Rats: "EXCLUSIVES MATTER?"

That deal is mostly meaningless lol.

MS are tripping over themselves to put all their stuff on playstation, regardless of any deals.

I guess one benefit for sony is MS can't do any exclsuive content, i do remember that being mentioned as part of the deal.

Yes they can't, its been what 2 years now? Tick tock.

 

[DenchDeckard]

So, can we expect anything good out of this result? Is MS free to release more games now across all platforms?

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

Microsoft has won nothing, infact they lost....al theyr exlusive games....that has and is hurting the selling of theyr hardware....going third party was the only choice possible, they have to earn al that money they spend back...and not in 10-15 years..

 

[jm89]

Yes they can't, its been what 2 years now? Tick tock.

Tick tock indeed, but for who?

 

[DenchDeckard]

We wake up tomorrow and suddenly everything isnt an Xbox......

 

[Killjoy-NL]

That deal is mostly meaningless lol.

MS are tripping over themselves to put all their stuff on playstation, regardless of any deals.

I guess one benefit for sony is MS can't do any exclsuive content, i do remember that being mentioned as part of the deal.

I'd MS likely hoped to make COD exclusive and turn things around, but the 10-year deal Jim Ryan secured prevented that and ended up being the final push for Xbox to go 3rd party.

It was Jim Ryan's mic drop moment to end his career with.