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[Kleegamefan]

http://www.xbox.com/assets/en-us/downloads/xbox360/Xbox360Preparation.doc


Intresting....

 

[Reilly]

crap, I shouldn't have opened it, I can't find my office key so now that's just one less time I can open Word

 

[Nikashi]

This one particular line is interesting:

A game should have playable modes even if the detachable drive is removed.

Notice it didn't say the game had to be playable, just had to have playable MODES.

 

[raYne]

Nothing any developer shouldn't know unless they're a bunch of idiots... (see Activision).

 

[FallenOne666]

• Minimize load times. Console games don’t install to a hard drive—they run directly from the game disc, so using the game disc effectively is important. Plan to stream data from the disc throughout the game, plan to compress game data, and offload decompression to a separate thread. Consider replicating data to avoid unnecessary seeking.

• Don’t assume the console player has a memory unit or that the hard drive is always attached. A game should have playable modes even if the detachable drive is removed.

Uh oh... incoming trolls.

 

[polg]

This one particular line is interesting:




Notice it didn't say the game had to be playable, just had to have playable MODES.

PDZ The Minigame for the Retard pack!

 

[lips]

Multithread your game engine. Single-threaded games use only a third of the potential processing power of the system.

Here is a big whipping surprise. 3 threads not 6, microsoft? what happened? suddenly a single thread can tap full power of a cpu core? Direct from microsoft, they must not verify their facts across their different departments.

 

[Kleegamefan]

This one struck me as well:

Design for controller input, not for keyboard & mouse input. Console players press simple buttons—they don’t move the mouse or tap a keyboard.

I thought X360 was going to have a M/KB option??

 

[blackadde]

Not for games, AFAIK.

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

Here is a big whipping surprise. 3 threads not 6, microsoft? what happened? suddenly a single thread can tap full power of a cpu core? Direct from microsoft, they must not verify their facts across their different departments.

Three cores with each core having two hw threads -- no contradiction at all.

*begin edit*
On a side note, anyone know what scheduler policies are available on X360 OS?
*end edit*

 

[AndoCalrissian]

PDZ The Minigame for the Retard pack!

Recall that the original Perfect Dark only had ~30% available to players without the ram pak, iirc.

 

[lips]

Three cores with each core having two hw threads -- no contradiction at all.

really 3 cores x 2 threads > 3 threads in my book, but it doesn't really matter to me.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Nothing any developer shouldn't know unless they're a bunch of idiots... (see Activision).

Explain??

really 3 cores x 2 threads > 3 threads in my book, but it doesn't really matter to me.

There are 6 available HW threads in XeCPU AFAIK......XeCPU= three dual-threaded PPC cores....

 

[The Faceless Master]

• Be aware of the title-safe region on televisions—that is, avoid displaying critical UI elements or text in the outer edges of the screen.

:lol :lol :lol

man the sure do state some obvious stuff!

Explain??

have you seen tony hawk and gun pix?

 

[Kleegamefan]

:lol :lol :lol

man the sure do state some obvious stuff!

Remember, this is targeted towards dumbass PC devs (see Gabe)

 

[Kleegamefan]

have you seen tony hawk and gun pix?

Oh.....HAW, HAW......

 

[Mrbob]

This is where I think the PS3 has a huge advantage for using Blu Ray:

Minimize load times. Console games don’t install to a hard drive-they run directly from the game disc, so using the game disc effectively is important. Plan to stream data from the disc throughout the game, plan to compress game data, and offload decompression to a separate thread. Consider replicating data to avoid unnecessary seeking.

With the extra space in a Blu Ray disc replicating data for quicker seek times will be much more common. Xbox 360 DVD disc may fill up quick so you can't replicate data as much for quicker seek times.

 

[raYne]

I thought X360 was going to have a M/KB option??

Not a standalone KB, it's a mini KB that rests underneath the controller (between the lower section of the handles). A mouse was never planned as far as I know.

have you seen tony hawk and gun pix?

Pretty much what he said, just more eloquent.

 

[Kleegamefan]

This is where I think the PS3 has a huge advantage for using Blu Ray:



With the extra space in a Blu Ray disc replicating data for quicker seek times will be much more common. Xbox 360 DVD disc may fill up quick so you can't replicate data as much for quicker seek times.

Yeah, for those PS3 games that use the BRD-ROM format (how many ever there are) seek times and should be much better....not to mention you have more potential processing overhead on CELL for data compression...

 

[sonycowboy]

This is where I think the PS3 has a huge advantage for using Blu Ray:



With the extra space in a Blu Ray disc replicating data for quicker seek times will be much more common. Xbox 360 DVD disc may fill up quick so you can't replicate data as much for quicker seek times.

True, but there could be a trade-off if the Blu-Ray drive doesn't go more than 2x vs 12x DVD (72Mbs or 108Mbs, depending on who you ask vs 132Mbs on 12x DVD)

 

[PG2G]

IIRC, the keyboard will only be used for text input, not for controlling games.

 

[lips]

unless, ofcourse, we are talking about a quest game.

 

[Scott]

IIRC, the keyboard will only be used for text input, not for controlling games.

It may end up being the only case, but I'm willing to bet you'll be able to play Final Fantasy XI without a controller.

 

[mj1108]

It may end up being the only case, but I'm willing to bet you'll be able to play Final Fantasy XI without a controller.

I'd bet that as well since not everyone will have the keyboard attachment.

 

[PG2G]

I'd bet that as well since not everyone will have the keyboard attachment.

Why? It supports voice chat, so why do you need a keyboard?

 

[SuperPac]

Keyboard attachment? You mean you guys want to buy more accessories? No thank you for me, thanks.

 

[Kleegamefan]

True, but there could be a trade-off if the Blu-Ray drive doesn't go more than 2x vs 12x DVD (72Mbs or 108Mbs, depending on who you ask vs 132Mbs on 12x DVD)

Well, the thing is, there is not official word of how fast of the BRD-ROM drive will be in the PLAYSTATION 3....

In about 15 hours, I am heading up to Dolby Labs.....they are both the licensors of HDMI and the DD+/DDL codecs used in PS3 and perhaps someday the X360 as well.....I am crossing my fingers I will be able to get game related info on these issues.....

Back in December my contact at Dolby informed me about the 2nd HD-DVD X360 SKU and I will try to get further clearification of that as well...

 

[FiRez]

The controls comments almost confirms some rumors about the errors on the dev. and beta testing of H2.


"H3 controls:

Press L to lock-on, Press R to shoot"



"SBEAFM: Don't you know it? the purpose of the lock-on is too fight the lag"

"SPHFIM: -_-"

 

[Hurricane_Chris]

really 3 cores x 2 threads > 3 threads in my book, but it doesn't really matter to me.

There are 6 available HW threads in XeCPU AFAIK......XeCPU= three dual-threaded PPC cores....

Looking at specs and making blanket statements is the wrong thing to do. This is a complex issue and small details have a great influence on your final performance. Basically, most of the publicly announced specs by all hardware makers don't tell you anything about how the final system will behave in the hands of developers. You should keep this in mind when discussing hardware and the software that will be running on it.

I don't know how Microsoft has exposed their APIs to developers (is the finest level of granularity an abstracted thread? can you assign a thread to a core specifically? can you use a core in a "raw" mode?) but keeping the cores busy doing *something* productive seems to be the most relevant thing here. This is the one thing we can take from the announced X360 CPU specs.

A core capable of supporting multiple hardwre threads is just that -- a core capable of supporting multiple hardwre threads. A number of issues influence maximum theoretical performance. Running multiple threads on a core supporting multiple hw threads does not guarantee maximum performance. For instance having a single core supporting two hw threads will perform differently depending on what code is running on it; a single threaded app is completely capable of outperforming an app written using 2+ threads. You yourself can observe this behavior if you have an Intel HT processor.

 

[Kewk]

:lol :lol :lol

man the sure do state some obvious stuff!

have you seen tony hawk and gun pix?

There is a difference between a port and a full fledged Xbox 360 game. Have you not seen COD2? Easily the best looking launch title for the 360. Or Quake 4?


As to the OP... I don't know why anyone would fake this but a couple things stand out to me:

• Consider using a television as an output device during development. PC-to-TV video adaptors are widely available.

This implys that the adaptors are were not provided by MS when in fact all alpha hardware came with everything you could possibly need including this adapter.

References
Xbox 360 system specifications: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm
Xbox 360 consumer site: http://www.xbox360.com/
Visual Studio: http://msdn.microsoft.com/visualc/
DirectX Software Development Kit: http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/
XACT for Windows is currently in beta. You can apply for the beta at http://beta.microsoft.com/ using the Guest ID: XACTBeta.
OpenMP: http://www.openmp.org/

No mention what-so-ever of the actual Xbox site where you get every possible thing you need from.

Unpublished work. ©2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

I do not ever remember seeing MS use this type of header/footer in any documentation. I'll have to double check with the early alpha documentation though to be for sure.


Like I said I have no clue why anyone would fake this but it does seem odd.

 

[Chittagong]

I do not ever remember seeing MS use this type of header/footer in any documentation. I'll have to double check with the early alpha documentation though to be for sure.


Like I said I have no clue why anyone would fake this but it does seem odd.

Actually this will stun you - go and check out any PAL Xbox game disc (such as Forza) - each of them say in small print in the circle print area "Confidential Unpublished Work". Has always puzzled me.

 

[Mrbob]

You think Call of Duty 2 is the best looking X360 launch game...hmmm.

Kewk
Works for Activision

I see. Call of Duty 2 has a ton of characters on screen. The smoke effects are nice. I hope the lighting isn't finished though. Man, if CoD2 is the best looking X360 launch game I'm gonna be dissapointed with the supposed power of the X360. I'm expecting PD0 to trounce CoD2 graphically. CoD2 doesn't exactly scream next gen to me. It screams high res PC game. It looks like something that will run on my 9800 PRO. Same thing with Quake 4. If we are talking about Xbox 360 and PC games I'd say Oblivion is much easier on the eyes than Call of Duty 2.

 

[Amir0x]

I see. Call of Duty 2 has a ton of characters on screen. The smoke effects are nice. I hope the lighting isn't finished though. Man, if CoD2 is the best looking X360 launch game I'm gonna be dissapointed with the supposed power of the X360. I'm expecting PD0 to trounce CoD2 graphically. CoD2 doesn't exactly scream next gen to me. It screams high res PC game. It looks like something that will run on my 9800 PRO. If we are talking about Xbox 360 and PC games I'd say Oblivion is much easier on the eyes than Call of Duty 2.

CoD2 looks much better in motion, I'm sure you've seen. I doubt PD0 will look better than it, unless it's improved at least 30 or 40% since its unveiling. Oblivion and it are definitely among the top tier, imho. If Project Gotham Racing 3 makes it in the period, that's there too.

 

[gofreak]

Here is a big whipping surprise. 3 threads not 6, microsoft? what happened? suddenly a single thread can tap full power of a cpu core?

A single thread could, yeah. Dual threading isn't executing two threads at once, rather having one "ready" in standby if the other thread blocks, so you can easily switch to it. If a thread doesn't block, it could occupy a core on its own.

A simple architecture for multithreading on Xbox 360 uses one thread for world updates and another thread for graphics processing. An additional CPU core can be used for audio, decompression, geometry generation or other game tasks.

Avoid walking linked-lists or any other data structure that has nodes spread across memory. Avoid walking any large data structure more than once per frame. Prefer contiguous data structures, like arrays.

What happened to "general purpose" power?

This implys that the adaptors are were not provided by MS when in fact all alpha hardware came with everything you could possibly need including this adapter.

This doc is aimed at people without X360 dev hardware AFAIK, how to start developing with PCs.

 

[Mrbob]

CoD2 looks much better in motion, I'm sure you've seen. I doubt PD0 will look better than it, unless it's improved at least 30 or 40% since its unveiling. Oblivion and it are definitely among the top tier, imho. If Project Gotham Racing 3 makes it in the period, that's there too.

Yeah, it looks decent, and I'll get the game for the PC. But when I think about Xbox 360, I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a game that screams next gen is here.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, it looks decent, and I'll get the game for the PC. But when I think about Xbox 360, I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a game that screams next gen is here.

Oh, now I see what you mean. Duh, silly, that's because Xbox360 is a current gen videogame system. How can a current gen system scream that? If you wanted next gen, then just wait for PS3.

 

[Mrbob]

Yeah well I'm not getting the feeling of working harder.

From what I"ve been reading X360 and PS3 should be close in power. So I guess I better lower expectations for PLAYSTATION 3 as well.

 

[Kewk]

I'm not feeling PD0 what-so-ever /shrug

i wanted KI3 anyways

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah well I'm not getting the feeling of working harder.

From what I"ve been reading X360 and PS3 should be close in power. So I guess I better lower expectations for PLAYSTATION 3 as well.

What? Didn't you know? Every PS3 game = Killzone/Motorstorm quality. Minimum. Justification for 799.99 price tag.

 

[krypt0nian]

From what I"ve been reading X360 and PS3 should be close in power. So I guess I better lower expectations for PLAYSTATION 3 as well.

PS3 may create the hugest eat crow thread ever. That is for those who go on believing the sun rises and sets in its majesty. The difference is going to turn out to be closer to the xbox/gamecube level than people will admit now.

I know Ami is just funnin with us, though.. =)

 

[Mrbob]

Naw, I'm not expecting Killzone quality. I am expecting more than what I've seen out of most launch X360 titles, though. Don't let me down TGS!

Also, I'm looking at upgrading my video card for upcoming PC games, like Age of Empires 3, FEAR, etc. I guess as a PC gamer this is where some of my partial struggles come with the X360. I can get a lot of the X360 launch games I'm interested in on my PC: Condemned, Quake 4, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion.

PS3 may create the hugest eat crow thread ever. That is for those who go on believing the sun rises and sets in its majesty. The difference is going to turn out to be closer to the xbox/gamecube level than people will admit now.

Perhaps. Graphically, I think they'll be close. But non graphic items like physics the PS3 may have a huge advantage.

 

[Amir0x]

PS3 may create the hugest eat crow thread ever. That is for those who go on believing the sun rises and sets in its majesty. The difference is going to turn out to be closer to the xbox/gamecube level than people will admit now.

I know Ami is just funnin with us, though.. =)

Man, please. You're just jealous about the PS3s eye-opening power. Wait until you see it, for upon its first hands-on unveiling people will speak wonders about the boomerang controller, write books about the first time they saw the white light of Gundam: Game 2000 Version Bot Eighty Undeniable Cooljet Edition.

A world will be changed soon. Upon the foreheads of all, the blazing mark of "MGS4."

 

[krypt0nian]

Man, please. You're just jealous about the PS3s eye-opening power. Wait until you see it, for upon its first hands-on unveiling people will speak wonders about the boomerang controller, write books about the first time they saw the white light of Gundam: Game 2000 Version Bot Eighty Undeniable Cooljet Edition.

A world will be changed soon. Upon the foreheads of all, "MGS4."

You're right to have seen though my weakness. Please punish me now.

 

[Amir0x]

You're right to have seen though my weakness. Please punish me now.

Punish you in...in that special way?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

PS3 may create the hugest eat crow thread ever. That is for those who go on believing the sun rises and sets in its majesty. The difference is going to turn out to be closer to the xbox/gamecube level than people will admit now.

People will just brush it off and tell people to wait for the real next-gen stuff still in development...it's gonna be this way for both X360 and PS3, no doubt about it. There will certainly be outstanding real next-gen stuff for both out of the gates, but the majority is going to seem kind of underwhelming...moreso if you've been sold on the prerendered footage at Sony's E3 presentation.

 

[Kewk]

I dunno, it just doesn't seem like a game that screams next gen is here.

Current Gen

Next Gen and I quote... "bitches"

If this is not next gen enough for you... man there really is no hope.

 

[Mrbob]

^^^

Maybe that is a more current build, but the models on the X360 OXM CoD2 video did not look nearly as nice.

Lets face it, the main reason many X360 games look so underwhelming is that the 360 is the only next gen game in town at the moment. Once the PS3 hits then more next gen looking titles will hit.

 

[The Faceless Master]

There is a difference between a port and a full fledged Xbox 360 game. Have you not seen COD2? Easily the best looking launch title for the 360. Or Quake 4?

calm down there buddy, i was merely explaining rayne's comment to klee...

btw, what kind of substance do you have to (ab)use to think COD2 is even close to being a contender for best looking?

*reads tag*

oh.. i see... :lol :lol :lol

 

[Kewk]

^^^

Maybe that is a more current build, but the models on the X360 OXM CoD2 video did not look nearly as nice.

The models in the oxm video looks exactly the same. The difference is compression and lighting. OXM video was done on Du Hoc in the day time and extreme compression on the videos. Seriously think about it the OXM video was what 150MB? Think about that for a second 150MB for a high def movie that was 12min long? I can't recall the actual length. I know we recorded several versions of it but im pretty sure it was 12min. That video uncompressed was over 4GB. 4GB to 150MB THEN to 50MB from various sites that leeched it from OXM.

 

[Mrbob]

I'll take your word for it. I'm watching the OXM video again right now and there is no way the models look as detailed as the one on the right. It must be a compression issue then like you mentioned.

If the final version looks closer to the screenshot you posted then I'll be impressed. But I'll be a little cautious until I see the final version. If the X360 version looks like that I may bypass the PC upgrade and get a 360 instead.