chaobreaker
Member
They call it a vocal minority for a reason.
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Mighty No.9 Kickstarter (PS4/XB1 & Vita/3DS are GO!) (Inafune/IC, $4M FUNDED)
- Thread starter Busaiku
- Start date
They call it a vocal minority for a reason.
Granted I'm sure minority in your dictionary means. "If I don't care, divide the amount of people by 100 and subtract 500".
There are probably a lot of people who don't even know what the hell had been going on and would care. I personally didn't until I found out she was lying and not a fan of the games and working on designs. Which makes a difference in working on something. I care not if someone who's not a fan funds the game.
Its like the difference between a cook who is passionate and a fucking school chef honestly. It baffles me that this needs a break down.
Uh, she's friends with the people there. That's how she got the job in the first place. There's not a chance of her being fired.
I thought it would be cool to recruit friends to work with me too. I realized it was a shitty idea when I was 18.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
So you're capable of learning? Fascinating. Let us know when you stop being a misogynist fuck.
chaobreaker
Member
The same could be said for all the people who do know what's going on and don't care enough to say anything.
I'm sorry, but what does previous experience with the Mega Man series affect your ability to be a community manager?
Has nothing to do with her being a woman. I don't even care about her being a feminist. It's the lying, and the general unprofessionalism. Stop fucking straw-manning.
She also has a hand in doing design concepts. Again I saw this update when it was first revealed via my phone and did not care until I noticed the lying. I hate the shit out of lies in the work place. I do not want someone who lies representing anybody.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
Stop being a stupid fuck.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
I don't want anything to do with this account or this industry any more. Rot in hell.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
I guess once you accept you're going to die alone and unloved you have a lot more time to dedicate to second-guessing Kickstarter community managers.
I'm actually happily married with a kid on the way. You need to chill out.
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
I'm trying to suicide by mod but they're just leaving me hanging. It's really awkward for both of us.
Uh, you are dumb and you probably look funny!!
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
[IMF]http://explicitpornography.com/horsecocks.gif[/IMG]
Howard Alan Treesong
Member
:-(
I see a lot about this person "lying" being a main concern, but I must have missed the details.
Has anyone presented:
A: the two contradicting messages that constitute the lie (exact quotes)
and
B: whatever explanation that the person offered for the contradiction?
Based on those, the questions would be:
1. If it's a misunderstanding, who cares?
2. If it's a blatant lie, is it about something that truly matters?
Has anyone presented:
A: the two contradicting messages that constitute the lie (exact quotes)
and
B: whatever explanation that the person offered for the contradiction?
Based on those, the questions would be:
1. If it's a misunderstanding, who cares?
2. If it's a blatant lie, is it about something that truly matters?
Oh hey, I didn't know there was a Japanese section in the forums as well. Anybody know what they're saying about Dina?
Either way, there's been an official response to the concerns
Maybe she is a great community manager, who knows? I don't really have an opinion on her but this was probably not the best way for her to start off. I also don't like her art.
Either way, there's been an official response to the concerns
Maybe she is a great community manager, who knows? I don't really have an opinion on her but this was probably not the best way for her to start off. I also don't like her art.
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
Okay, now we can get back on topic.
I understand the concerns about this person having a possible agenda, and it's weird that they aren't avid Mega Man fans, but I think we're all taking this a bit too far.
As posted above, they aren't taking over Mighty No. 9 and making everyone a super powerful girl entity. They are just a community manager who is supposed to be impartial. Maybe not playing Mega Man will help with that.
Give them a chance. Don't let one person become the reason you back out of the project--you're doing more harm backing out than this person could ever do.
Thank you for posting this as well! I posted it earlier on this page but nobody noticed.
I understand the concerns about this person having a possible agenda, and it's weird that they aren't avid Mega Man fans, but I think we're all taking this a bit too far.
As posted above, they aren't taking over Mighty No. 9 and making everyone a super powerful girl entity. They are just a community manager who is supposed to be impartial. Maybe not playing Mega Man will help with that.
Give them a chance. Don't let one person become the reason you back out of the project--you're doing more harm backing out than this person could ever do.
khaaan said:
Thank you for posting this as well! I posted it earlier on this page but nobody noticed.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
I dislike the tumblr wave of social fighters (because they seem to devolve in concerned trolls and bullies like the example above)... but, come on. Let the girl do her job.
Oh shoot, completely didn't see it. Though I'm sure plenty of people will gloss over a lot of the thread so reiterating can't hurt.
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
It's a pretty darn important message too. The more exposure the better!
We should probably clean up the greyed-out idiocy on this page. People like that are what make fanbases so abhorrent.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Is a nice summary for the people that didn't now about the mini shitstorm.
chaobreaker
Member
Does it even matter in the end? It's not like anything she designs won't be reviewed by a experienced Japanese developer. You could also argue that her lack of experience in the Mega Man series could give the team a additional perspective.
So, from what I can understand from all this, is that she got off the wrong foot by saying some stupid stuff and then some of the MN9 form readers caught wind of her doing social warrior stuff on the side and got concerned that they'd get screwed out of what they put cash down on (which, from all indication would never happen) and then everything went to Tropes vs Women in Video Games?
That about where we at with this?
That about where we at with this?
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much. But hey, the internet always needs something to argue about.
Thanks for the clear up. Yeah. There might be something to talk about in all this but it's been lost in both sides making a bit of a hash of it to say the least.
She really shouldn't have deleted her posts about not being a Megaman fan, that's like deleting posts saying you're not into Mario because you're a Sonic community manager, but the attacks on her were not on and we've lost the debate of her ability to manage the MN9 community (put in doubt due to above) to the utterly galling rabble of gender issues where Lady Sarkesian's dark word is law.
The vast majority of hires are made through some kind of social connection.
Wait that's the longest sentence. Are you actually making Sarkeesian out as some kind of witchy puppetmaster or are you making a joke about dingbats always reacting like she is every time.
Metallix87
Member
I have a serious question for all the people voicing their "disgust" at the backers / fan base and their alleged overreaction: How do you feel about individuals boycotting and/or complaining about Chik-Fil-A? I view the situations as VERY similar.
Why? Some are saying that we should, essentially, take the end product and judge it at face value. Well, if that's the case, wouldn't you all say that Chik-Fil-A deserves your money if their sandwiches taste great, regardless of the beliefs of the individual running the company? If anything, that situation is less egregious than this one, in a sense, since this person is involved in the game's design to some extent, despite potentially being a non-fan of the Mega Man series with little-to-no experience with the franchise. She's pushing radical agendas, some of which may upset backers because of their own beliefs. At least the dude running Chik-Fil-A clearly knows a good chicken sandwich from a bad one.
Now, I'm not here to say that the angry backers are in the right. That's not my stance on this matter. I'm actually not completely sure how I feel about it (yet), though I do lean to agreeing that the end product is what matters most, but I do feel that if said backers feel so strongly about this, they have every right to voice their concerns, and shouldn't be berated because you may not agree with them. Be thankful, though, that so far her influence hasn't resulted in a major change. Just imagine the shit storms that will come if / when her push to make Beck a female character come to fruition.
Why? Some are saying that we should, essentially, take the end product and judge it at face value. Well, if that's the case, wouldn't you all say that Chik-Fil-A deserves your money if their sandwiches taste great, regardless of the beliefs of the individual running the company? If anything, that situation is less egregious than this one, in a sense, since this person is involved in the game's design to some extent, despite potentially being a non-fan of the Mega Man series with little-to-no experience with the franchise. She's pushing radical agendas, some of which may upset backers because of their own beliefs. At least the dude running Chik-Fil-A clearly knows a good chicken sandwich from a bad one.
Now, I'm not here to say that the angry backers are in the right. That's not my stance on this matter. I'm actually not completely sure how I feel about it (yet), though I do lean to agreeing that the end product is what matters most, but I do feel that if said backers feel so strongly about this, they have every right to voice their concerns, and shouldn't be berated because you may not agree with them. Be thankful, though, that so far her influence hasn't resulted in a major change. Just imagine the shit storms that will come if / when her push to make Beck a female character come to fruition.
Right you are. I'm the only one in my department besides my boss that didn't have at least one friend in said department when they got hired. We all work really well together and none of us are dead weight though - very few people will stick their neck out for a friend if they will suck at the job and make them look bad.
Dina could have managed the initial rollout better, but every job has a learning curve if you've never done it before. I'm certainly not going to demand a refund over it. If they changed the existing "official" Mighty Nos just to please a small number of backers? I'd consider it. No. 7 can always be turned female if they want to listen to (some of) us and make a second female boss as it's not a final design. I was a little disappointed when I read that No. 8 was planed to be female, but his design is pretty badass as is and I can see why they kept it.
This will all die down on the 19th when the Call vote starts - and it'll start right back up again when the fans of the losing Calls see the results - especially if F loses.
Metallix87
Member
No, her beliefs and comments on Twitter are pushing radical agendas. The female protagonist push is just those agendas creeping out into her workplace.
I don't feel like the situation is the same at all.
She's a minor contributor to the Mighty No.9 team whereas Chik-Fil-A uproar was because the CEO made terrible comments and also donated to anti-gay hate groups.
Also, I haven't seen anything yet that defines her as a "radical"? Wanting more diverse representation in media isn't a very radical position. Even so, she is not in a position to make drastic changes to the game.
EDIT. Where are these "radical" twitter comments? I don't know how to navigate twitter at all.
Metallix87
Member
I would describe applauding Sweden dropping male and female pronouns to be a radical position.
Also, her comments on Twitter prove she's ignorant to the franchise, which to me is more damning than donating money to a cause I don't believe in, as was the case for Chik-Fil-A.
You'd have to go back to Nov 2012, when she was applauding Sweden for dropping "him" and "her" from school language.
A new prounon is radical now? Sweden made the gender neutral pronoun official in response to intersex/gender fluid individuals desiring recognition. There's nothing wrong with that. Using gender neutral pronouns to teach kids is a pretty good idea too.
Someone not knowing about a video game franchise is worse than Chik-Fil-A donating to groups like the Family Research Council which is pretty much a hate group against LGBT individuals? Ridiculous.
Metallix87
Member
That's all a perspective issue, though. I think everyone is entitled to believe whatever the hell they want to believe, but I think condemning people because they're shocked and appalled both by her lack of knowledge of Mega Man and also at least some of her beliefs being very far left, is just a little silly. To me, at least.
To me, the latter is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, since I just want a chicken sandwich. I don't agree with his views or the group's views, but that's his money to do with whatever he likes. I'm paying for his product, not joining in his backwards agenda. Just like if this woman were to donate some of her money to some feminist groups, it would be her money to do freely with. That being said, to me, lack of knowledge of the franchise to which you are developing the spiritual successor IS important, because it can effect the end product in some way, albeit very little since her roll is so minor.
It's insane anybody ever says "feminazi" out loud at all.
Chik-fil-A dude stood for enshrining in law the idea that some people are less than others. This lady thinks it's cool Sweden is pushing against the gender binary in a bid to bring more harmony to the world. So, you know, those aren't really similar at all.
Metallix87
Member
And yet people disagree with one or both of those. The point is, to me, that's all irrelevant, as long as the end product is good. Her lack of knowledge of Megaman, in turn, could have affected that end product quality if she were in a more major position.
The only people who would describe her as "radical" are people that are deeply entrenched in backwards social attitudes to begin with.
Her role is minor- the uproar is completely uncalled for. Threatening to pull your money because of one low-level person on an otherwise very experienced and talented team is a crazy overreaction.
Metallix87
Member
I don't think you have to be "deeply entrenched in conservatism" to think that dropping the pronouns "him" and "her" in favor of "friend" in school is radical, but that's besides the point. My point was, if people want to be upset about it, they have every right to be, just like the Chik-Fil-A protesters. And, mind you, I'm saying this while disagreeing with both of those groups. I believe in her right to be a feminist, to whatever degree she is one, and I also think that if the CEO of CFA wants to donate his money to some nutjob anti-gay group, well that's his right, too, and as long as you enjoy the end product, how they spend their time and money should be of little-to-no concern to anyone.
As for your later point, to them, it's clearly not. They feel it's justified, and again, that's a perspective issue.
Either way, this is getting nowhere, so I'm out. I just wanted to try to explain how perspective is key here, and that their perspective on the matter is their's, and shouldn't be just dismissed, ridiculed, and trashed because you disagree.
Except Sweden doesn't use the pronouns "him" and "her" because they speak Swedish- not English- which has a different set of rules, history, connotations, etc. so what seems radical and weird in English obviously wouldn't seem that way in another.
And there's a difference between honest opinions and hateful beliefs which have no basis in reality.
Drinky Crow
Banned
omg, all of this because someone wants megaman mk. 2 to be a girl? you sad nostalgic fucks. gtfo my hobby.
NO NOSTALGIA FUTURE. BAN ALL CANON.
NO NOSTALGIA FUTURE. BAN ALL CANON.
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
That was a quick ban! We're losing spammers left and right today!
They're not similar. Chik-Fil-A was actively donating millions of dollars to anti-gay organizations. They even had a vice president help start one of those organizations.
Let's not pretend that any part of this girl's opinions , "agenda" or involvement with the game project is in any way as alarming and objectively offensive as a corporation actively donating millions of dollars to the effect of undermining the civil rights of others.
Even if we say those two are equally bad, the truth is that giving money to Chik-Fil-A is (or at least, was) a much surer way of having our money end up going towards objectionable organizations, as the Kickstarter was made to fund a game, not to donate to organizations, and one Community Manager (even with modest creative input) is not going to derail the game into something you're going to hate. If the game's creative team was that easy to sway, this game would probably doomed no matter what.
I would say that being this troubled over what a girl knows about Megaman, more so than being troubled by a large corporation supporting anti-rights organizations, is the radical position.
Drinky Crow
Banned
i can't believe that this folderol is ENTIRELY over the nostalgia of entitled white male 30-something nerds.
if i were rich, i would give comcept X million bucks to make mega man v2.0 a transgendered robot that battles dr. colonialist wily. defeat a boss, collect that robot's genitals and self-install for PRIVILEGE POWERS
if i were rich, i would give comcept X million bucks to make mega man v2.0 a transgendered robot that battles dr. colonialist wily. defeat a boss, collect that robot's genitals and self-install for PRIVILEGE POWERS
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
You don't know who Drinky is, do you?
D
Diggeh
Unconfirmed Member
I do now! Jumped the gun a bit on that one. Heh.