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[VGEsoterica]

Obviously I make no money off anyone buying a MiSTer...so I am no shill...but damn it everyone should seriously own one of these things if they even had a remote interest in retro gaming.

Every console basically from the 80s and 90s, multiple PC cores including Sharp X68000 (saved myself a couple grand not buying one) and a metric CRAP TON of arcade cores...its wild just how much MiSTer really does via FPGA

It's the swiss army knife of retro gaming...except less stabby (I mean if you really tried I am sure you could use it to stab...but its not a proper use case scenario at all)

What's the ownership of a MiSTer here on Gaf? Curious who has one...and what you are playing on it / what you want to see come to it? Because I am working on a "what MiSTer needs" video and having opinions that arent just my own is always fun

 

[Lasha]

I echo your sentiment. I started selling my old consoles because MiSTer makes them redundant. The release of the Neo Geo core was especially helpful. I love my AES collection but I wasn't playing with it much because I didn't want to risk damaging games worth thousands of dollars. I have since sold off the console and I play all of my Neo Geo with the original controllers going into the MiSTER. The CPS2 cores are also a godsend. I have a fully consolized CPS2. It plays perfectly but takes up a shitload of space and is loud. MiSTer is vastly easier to play with. My sleeper favorite are the GBA cores. Especially the cores that simulate a link cable for split screen.

 

[VGEsoterica]

I echo your sentiment. I started selling my old consoles because MiSTer makes them redundant. The release of the Neo Geo core was especially helpful. I love my AES collection but I wasn't playing with it much because I didn't want to risk damaging games worth thousands of dollars. I have since sold off the console and I play all of my Neo Geo with the original controllers going into the MiSTER. The CPS2 cores are also a godsend. I have a fully consolized CPS2. It plays perfectly but takes up a shitload of space and is loud. MiSTer is vastly easier to play with. My sleeper favorite are the GBA cores. Especially the cores that simulate a link cable for split screen.

I wouldn't sell my OG stuff...but you 100% can. Honestly I SHOULD sell my AES collection...buy a fast car and wrap it around a tree or something

 

[PhaseJump]

"MiSTer sucks."

 

[VGEsoterica]

"MiSTer sucks."

KISS can't suck. It's KISS

 

[Lasha]

I wouldn't sell my OG stuff...but you 100% can. Honestly I SHOULD sell my AES collection...buy a fast car and wrap it around a tree or something

I keep the games and extra controllers. I sell the consoles themselves. Most of the value of AES stuff is tied to the games anyways.

 

[ShirAhava]

Does the MiSTer FPGA support PC-FX or FM Towns? Those two are all I care about really

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I keep the games and extra controllers. I sell the consoles themselves. Most of the value of AES stuff is tied to the games anyways.

This is true. As the owner of modest collections for the Saturn and the Super Famicom, the value is in the games. Consoles themselves are relatively cheap (unless you're going for a CIB or some sort of limited edition console)

 

[oldergamer]

What this over just using a raspberry pi or one of the other mini boards?

 

[InfiniteCombo]

What this over just using a raspberry pi or one of the other mini boards?

Isn't Raspberry Pi ultimately just software-based emulation, whereas the MiSTer is FPGA-based?

 

[Lasha]

What this over just using a raspberry pi or one of the other mini boards?

FPGA implementation and native analog output are two benefits. Raspberry Pi is probably fine if you don't care enough about the systems to notice the difference between emulation and FPGA.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Does the MiSTer FPGA support PC-FX or FM Towns? Those two are all I care about really

a person after my own heart as I own both...FM Towns is in the works. Nothing for PC-FX yet

 

[oldergamer]

FPGA implementation and native analog output are two benefits. Raspberry Pi is probably fine if you don't care enough about the systems to notice the difference between emulation and FPGA.

It's a programmable array. Is this technically just emulation at a different level? Can you elaborate on the analog output?

 

[Manji Uzuki]

Thanks a lot for the review video. I thinking the Mister project is super interesting and eventually I plan to jump in. For now I'm happy with my Pi but I know the FPGA emulation is much more accurate. Probably the day Saturn fully works on the MiSTer will be the final push for me to get it, and seems to be getting there. Hope there is CPSIII support one day as well

 

[fart town usa]

I want a mister but I'm not really sure how they work.

Lots of videos I see has people building them. I probably could but don't want to put in the time/research.

Any they available to buy preassembled? I haven't really seen anything via google.

Also, VGEsoterica is one of Gaf's best assets. Love your videos dude.

 

[Lasha]

It's a programmable array. Is this technically just emulation at a different level? Can you elaborate on the analog output?

The emulation is at a much lower level. Hardware replication or simulation are better terms because an accurate FPGA implementation is indistinguishable from original hardware. This includes quirks or other bugs that will not show up when using a software emulator. Its as authentic as you can get without the original system.

MiSTER has a setting where you can force RGB or 240p over the HDMI port. You can then use an HDMI to VGA converter to connect it to an old CRT if that is your thing. You can also add a board which allows simultaneous digital and analog output. The MiSTer can be played inside of an arcade cabinet while sending the signal to a monitor or capture card for others to watch.

 

[oldergamer]

I'm curious what this thing can do or what the software is like. I'm officially interested!

 

[nkarafo]

What this over just using a raspberry pi or one of the other mini boards?

Isn't Raspberry Pi ultimately just software-based emulation, whereas the MiSTer is FPGA-based?

FPGA implementation and native analog output are two benefits. Raspberry Pi is probably fine if you don't care enough about the systems to notice the difference between emulation and FPGA.

It's a programmable array. Is this technically just emulation at a different level? Can you elaborate on the analog output?

FPGAs and emulation are pretty similar. Both are trying to imitate a system and both rely on the knowledge and talents of the developer who makes them.

So the accuracy/compatibility of a FPGA is not inherently better or worse than software emulation.

However... FPGA devs these days almost always aim for the most accurate representation possible. Software emulators also do that but because it's software, it means it needs a more powerful host CPU to achieve good accuracy. But the problem with the Raspberry is that it's the bottom of the barrel of emulation devices. They are the weakest and cheapest. That means, they can't handle accurate emulators, only performance based. Which also means bugs, imperfections, etc.

So comparing FPGAs to shit like that or cheap android devices and cheap phones only makes the FPGA look like a godsend and also allows it's developers to sell the idea that FPGAs = Accuracy by design, while software emulation isn't as good. Which is bullshit. Software emulators were even more accurate in some cases (The SNES analogue FPGA devs used BSNES for reference to fix their own bugs, for instance).

Oh and one last thing. You will notice that there are no FPGAs for systems that don't have just as accurate software emulators already. That's because most devs use knowledge from decades of software emulator development to make their FPGAs. That's not a bad thing obviously, that's how it should work.

FPGAs are great because they offer accurate emulation without needing a beefy, more power hungry, PC CPU. And they don't have Windows or any other beefy OS to worry about so it's easier to reduce the input lag compared to software emulators (though achieving similar input lag with software is possible). But they are not more accurate, not inherently at least.

The emulation is at a much lower level. Hardware replication or simulation are better terms because an accurate FPGA implementation is indistinguishable from original hardware. This includes quirks or other bugs that will not show up when using a software emulator. Its as authentic as you can get without the original system.

This is false. See above. Accurate software emulators like BSNES/HIGAN will emulate any single quirk there is and they did so before FPGAs came along. FPGAs being inherently more accurate is a myth. It only depends on the developer.

 

[oldergamer]

The emulation is at a much lower level. Hardware replication or simulation are better terms because an accurate FPGA implementation is indistinguishable from original hardware. This includes quirks or other bugs that will not show up when using a software emulator. Its as authentic as you can get without the original system.

MiSTER has a setting where you can force RGB or 240p over the HDMI port. You can then use an HDMI to VGA converter to connect it to an old CRT if that is your thing. You can also add a board which allows simultaneous digital and analog output. The MiSTer can be played inside of an arcade cabinet while sending the signal to a monitor or capture card for others to watch.

That is actually really cool, damn I have a purchase open of one over amazon. Is there a specific version i should get?

 

[Lasha]

That is actually really cool, damn I have a purchase open of one over amazon. Is there a specific version i should get?

You just need a DE-10 Nano to get started.

 

[Impotaku]

MiSTer owners have become the new raspberry pi people as in they buy one and then don't shut the fuck up about them. The amount of times i have been online and someone has tried to barge into a conversation and try and force them on people.

"Why keep original console hardware when you can just get a MiSTer and have a superior experience"
"Those mini consoles are garbage why waste your money just buy a MiSTer"
"LOL emulation sucks too much lag, that's why i play on a MiSTer low latency is important"

They are like the vegans of gaming, we get it they are good but fuck those people are annoying.

 

[Kilau]

MiSTer owners have become the new raspberry pi people as in they buy one and then don't shut the fuck up about them. The amount of times i have been online and someone has tried to barge into a conversation and try and force them on people.

"Why keep original console hardware when you can just get a MiSTer and have a superior experience"
"Those mini consoles are garbage why waste your money just buy a MiSTer"
"LOL emulation sucks too much lag, that's why i play on a MiSTer low latency is important"

They are like the vegans of gaming, we get it they are good but fuck those people are annoying.

https://hard-drive.net/spend-80-snes-classic-can-install-emulators-raspberry-pi-never-shut-fuck/

 

[oldergamer]

FPGAs and emulation are pretty similar. Both are trying to imitate a system and both rely on the knowledge and talents of the developer who makes them.

So the accuracy/compatibility of a FPGA is not inherently better or worse than software emulation.

However... FPGA devs these days almost always aim for the most accurate representation possible. Software emulators also do that but because it's software, it means it needs a more powerful host CPU to achieve good accuracy. But the problem with the Raspberry is that it's the bottom of the barrel of emulation devices. They are the weakest and cheapest. That means, they can't handle accurate emulators, only performance based. Which also means bugs, imperfections, etc.

So comparing FPGAs to shit like that or cheap android devices and cheap phones only makes the FPGA look like a godsend and also allows it's developers to sell the idea that FPGAs = Accuracy by design, while software emulation isn't as good. Which is bullshit. Software emulators were even more accurate in some cases (The SNES analogue FPGA devs used BSNES for reference to fix their own bugs, for instance).

Oh and one last thing. You will notice that there are no FPGAs for systems that don't have just as accurate software emulators already. That's because most devs use knowledge from decades of software emulator development to make their FPGAs. That's not a bad thing obviously, that's how it should work.

FPGAs are great because they offer accurate emulation without needing a beefy, more power hungry, PC CPU. And they don't have Windows or any other beefy OS to worry about so it's easier to reduce the input lag compared to software emulators (though achieving similar input lag with software is possible). But they are not more accurate, not inherently at least.



This is false. See above. Accurate software emulators like BSNES/HIGAN will emulate any single quirk there is and they did so before FPGAs came along. FPGAs being inherently more accurate is a myth. It only depends on the developer.

Thanks so much for the info, this has all got my interest now. Any idea where i can find the software for FPGA emulators?

 

[VGEsoterica]

MiSTer owners have become the new raspberry pi people as in they buy one and then don't shut the fuck up about them. The amount of times i have been online and someone has tried to barge into a conversation and try and force them on people.

"Why keep original console hardware when you can just get a MiSTer and have a superior experience"
"Those mini consoles are garbage why waste your money just buy a MiSTer"
"LOL emulation sucks too much lag, that's why i play on a MiSTer low latency is important"

They are like the vegans of gaming, we get it they are good but fuck those people are annoying.

you are just encountering the bad people in the hobby. Every hobby has them

I will never sell my OG hardware / games for FPGA. Also I don't care if you play games on original hardware, FPGA or your cell phone via janky touch screen inputs...so long as people are playing retro stuff and having fun...I am happy

 

[nkarafo]

MiSTer owners have become the new raspberry pi people as in they buy one and then don't shut the fuck up about them. The amount of times i have been online and someone has tried to barge into a conversation and try and force them on people.

"Why keep original console hardware when you can just get a MiSTer and have a superior experience"
"Those mini consoles are garbage why waste your money just buy a MiSTer"
"LOL emulation sucks too much lag, that's why i play on a MiSTer low latency is important"

They are like the vegans of gaming, we get it they are good but fuck those people are annoying.

That's because both were marketed to a new crowd and not people who were already emulation enthusiasts.

The Retropie-Raspberry combo was sold as this cheap/easy to use emulation device where you can get pre-made setups and do nothing yourself. It also causes a lot of issues to the emulation community in general because of it's reliance on very old or crappy emulators, like very old versions of MAME for instance. This is the reason why shit like MAME 2003 is still widely used. Buggy arcade emulation from 20 years ago, now still represents arcade games for the majority of Phone and Raspberry users. Not to mention a lot of software emulator devs are catering more to these specs, making their emulators worse for everyone, even ones who have good systems.

The Mistrer sells the idea that it's a premium device and the only one that offers perfection for Retro games. Only the "premium" part is true though.

Thanks so much for the info, this has all got my interest now. Any idea where i can find the software for FPGA emulators?

Not sure what you are asking. When i say software i mean software emulators for PCs and other devices. FPGA is a device that already has whatever it needs to emulate the systems they support.

you are just encountering the bad people in the hobby. Every hobby has them

True, but in the case of FPGAs the the good people are just misinformed so they will still spread all the myths in favor of FPGAs. The marketing was pretty clever, they knew most people use cheap devices and inaccurate emulators that cause very obvious issues (sound is the most obvious) so they relied on their accuracy to hype their products and put all software emulators in the same basket as "not as good" since the average Pi user doesn't know about Bsnes, BlastEM, Messen, Mednafen PSX and countless other accuracy based emulators. They also rely on the incompetence of companies like Sony/Nintendo/Sega who can't create a decent emulator in their services or a good emulation device if their lives depended on it.

 

[sinnergy]

Now that analogue pocket runs openfpga I’ll keep my order and won’t get a MiSter anymore.

 

[VGEsoterica]

Now that analogue pocket runs openfpga I’ll keep my order and won’t get a MiSter anymore.

nothing against Analogue but the quantity of LE's (Logic elements) and their RAM structure will not allow for the same quantity of cores as on MiSTer, just from a design standpoint.

Fitting everything in the logic elements is a finite number. Like a gallon bucket...you cant get 1.5 gallons in it

 

[Deerock71]

"MiSTer sucks."

I used to have a Stretch Armstrong. Anyone else remember the tasty green goo that composed his innards?

 

[sinnergy]

nothing against Analogue but the quantity of LE's (Logic elements) and their RAM structure will not allow for the same quantity of cores as on MiSTer, just from a design standpoint.

Fitting everything in the logic elements is a finite number. Like a gallon bucket...you cant get 1.5 gallons in it

I don’t mind, most stuff it can run is suited for a small screen or for portable , mostly the stuff I like .

 

[Calling 911 Melts Beams]

no atari jaguar cd core and for that reason im out

 

[nkarafo]

no atari jaguar cd core and for that reason im out

You probably won't see an Atari Jaguar CD (or base Jaguar) Mister core, until a software emulator comes out first.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

Whatever all the details may be, I do very much agree with nkarafo that some of the alleged "drawbacks" of software based emulation are kind of a lie.

Input lag is a myth; in my experience, the BIGGEST myth. If it exists, I'm not sure what the hell people are talking about, because I play high-rate fighting games and I'm able to pull off moves and counters. So I have no idea why people parrot this shit, some people border on being NPCs I guess.

Lack of accuracy is a myth. There hasn't been one emulator on PC that I've tried that I've thought "ok now that's inaccurate." Maybe people have finely tuned vision and hearing or something, or usually just play a Genesis emulator (I've read that apparently sound is a big issue in Genesis emulators), but I haven't really run into issues when playing console emulators.

Combined with plenty of choices that enhance both 2D/pixel games (scanlines, shaders, etc) and 3D games (higher than native resolution, widescreen support, etc) software emulation gaming on PC is AWESOME.

That's not to knock MiSTer, it frankly sounds cool. I just don't want it to be a zero sum game where MiSTer gets praised at the cost of shitting on software emulation on PC.

 

[nkarafo]

Input lag is a myth; in my experience, the BIGGEST myth. If it exists, I'm not sure what the hell people are talking about, because I play high-rate fighting games and I'm able to pull off moves and counters. So I have no idea why people parrot this shit, some people border on being NPCs I guess.

There are some software solutions that do add a lot of noticeable lag. Also, most officially released software emulation devices will have noticeable lag (the new Astro Sega arcades have, like, 8 frames of lag for christ's sake) and, ofc, Pi devices also have a ton of lag. These solutions give emulation a bad rep, obviously.

But that doesn''t mean software emulators have inherent lag all the time. I'm currently using RetroArch (with GPU sync) on a VRR monitor, using the best cores possible (current MAME even had a lag fix) and i'm getting zero frames of lag, that's below 15ms. Not to mention there are even options to shave native game lag, like how Mario World has 2 frames of lag on the real system and you can shave those as well using "run ahead". That puts RetroArch above the Mister when it comes to potentially reduce lag.

Thing is, most people play with lag and don't know about it, if it's just 3 or 4 frames, people adjust and don't notice it. And Mister is indeed much better than this. But you can reduce lag in software emulators if you care about it.

Lack of accuracy is a myth. There hasn't been one emulator on PC that I've tried that I've thought "ok now that's inaccurate." Maybe people have finely tuned vision and hearing or something, or usually just play a Genesis emulator (I've read that apparently sound is a big issue in Genesis emulators), but I haven't really run into issues when playing console emulators.

Sound in Genesis emulators had been fine since the early 2000s. Even old emulators like Fusion have correct sound, even for the 32X.

The problem with sound emulation was introduced in the mainstream later, with shitty/cheap emulation consoles that flood the market. The only thing these crappy products did was, once again, to give software emulators a bad name.

The later point is the problem. There are a lot of stuff nowadays that give software emulation a bad name. Just a few days a go i was watching a stream from a Retro gaming Youtube channel with 150k subs where the host was using zSNES to play SNES games. Yes, zSNES! Not even SNES9x! And one of the games was Joe and Mac, which has serious glitches in certain stages in such old emulator. All these glitches were there for everyone to see. 1000+ viewers probably got the message that emulation must suck because how many of them know zSNES has been obsolete since the early 2000's and the last update was in 2005 something?

Mister is using all that to further push their products and it shows. Big time. Again, it's a great product. But the marketing and hype is condescending to say the least.

 

[Naked Lunch]

I havent jumped into the Mister scene yet - things seems a bit too complicated.
Ill have to study exactly what ill need and how it all works. The arcade and PS1 stuff interests me the most.

I feel like its alot of work and you have to keep updating it (I see there are core updates almost daily at this point).
Maybe im wrong - but that my first impression.

Ive got a pretty extensive original hardware retro console setup with upscaler - im fine with at the moment. But it would be nice to streamline it all to one device in the future.
I worry about my CD based consoles because my Gamecube laser already died. It seems like my cartridge consoles will last forever - but those CD ones, with all their precise moving parts - wont stand the test of time. Its kinda why ive embraced the digital future of modern consoles - cd/dvd reading consoles wont read them forever.

Input lag is a myth; in my experience, the BIGGEST myth. If it exists, I'm not sure what the hell people are talking about, because I play high-rate fighting games and I'm able to pull off moves and counters. So I have no idea why people parrot this shit, some people border on being NPCs I guess.

Im definitely no expert on the subject but since ive revisited almost all my retro consoles in the past few years - input lag IS a thing on emulators and things like Retropie - but only for certain games Ive found. Ive noticed it when I was able to play the original game on original hardware - in comparison to the emulator directly afterwards.

But there are other games - where there is no input lag at all on those same emulators. It seems its on a game by game basis for whatever reason.

Just some of my examples:
-The recently released GleyLancer on modern consoles (which uses a form of emulator) has loads of input lag in comparison to playing it on Mega Drive. I could feel the difference immediately.

-Lots of different arcade shmups on retropi just dont feel right in comparison to either 16/32-bit original hardware versions or modern day releases like Cave's work on switch. But then - other shmups on retropi feel fine.

-Metroid 1 on the Dreamcast NES emulator - jumping feels nearly impossible. I was wondering why I was so terrible at the game after not playing it for decades - but when I hooked up my original NES a month later - I was able to pull off all the jumps with no problem. 100% input lag was the issue.

Im with you, thats its not a big a deal as some claim - plus for games like RPGs who even cares about input lag? - but it IS there for certain things.

 

[lukilladog]

I don´t know, I mostly play arcades in mame from my Pc wich is connected to a crt tv via emudriver, having the native resolution and refresh rates is a must for me... all the accuracy in the world would be ruined without it.

 

[nkarafo]

I don´t know, I mostly play arcades in mame from my Pc wich is connected to a crt tv via emudriver, having the native resolution and refresh rates is a must for me... all the accuracy in the world would be ruined without it.

This is why i got a VRR monitor. It can display all these odd refresh rates without screen tearing or stutters.

RetroArch had the ability to adjust the speed of the games to sync to 60hz. That was a better solution that the above and it didn't affect sound tempo/pitch, but still not perfect since you were playing at the wrong speed (even slightly). But now they added a VRR option (sync to exact content frame rate) and it's perfect. Some standalone emulators also add VRR lately as well.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

I havent jumped into the Mister scene yet - things seems a bit too complicated.
Ill have to study exactly what ill need and how it all works. The arcade and PS1 stuff interests me the most.

I feel like its alot of work and you have to keep updating it (I see there are core updates almost daily at this point).
Maybe im wrong - but that my first impression.

Ive got a pretty extensive original hardware retro console setup with upscaler - im fine with at the moment. But it would be nice to streamline it all to one device in the future.
I worry about my CD based consoles because my Gamecube laser already died. It seems like my cartridge consoles will last forever - but those CD ones, with all their precise moving parts - wont stand the test of time.


Im definitely no expert on the subject but since ive revisited almost all my retro consoles in the past few years - input lag IS a thing on emulators and things like Retropie - but only for certain games Ive found. Ive noticed it when I was able to play the original game on original hardware - in comparison to the emulator directly afterwards.

But there are other games - where there is no input lag at all on those same emulators. It seems its on a game by game basis for whatever reason.

Just some of my examples:
-The recently released GleyLancer on modern consoles (which uses a form of emulator) has loads of input lag in comparison to playing it on Mega Drive. I could feel the difference immediately.

-Lots of different arcade shmups on retropi just dont feel right in comparison to either 16/32-bit original hardware versions or modern day releases like Cave's work on switch. But then - other shmups on retropi feel fine.

-Metroid 1 on the Dreamcast NES emulator - jumping feels nearly impossible. I was wondering why I was so terrible at the game after not playing it for decades - but when I hooked up my original NES a month later - I was able to pull off all the jumps with no problem. 100% input lag was the issue.

Im with you, thats its not a big a deal as some claim - plus for games like RPGs who even cares about input lag? - but it IS there for certain things.

I think your "game by game" explanation would make sense.

Again, I mentioned what lag is like in MY experience, for the games I play. I'm not coming at it as an expert, nor pretending to be one.

I play a lot of Super Street Fighter II Turbo and other fighting games of that type, which have a lot of tight inputs. And I do not experience lag to be a thing in the way people claim it is. It does NOT mess with my ability to execute.

I haven't played a single game via emulation where "lag" was a factor for me, at all.

 

[SScorpio]

I don´t know, I mostly play arcades in mame from my Pc wich is connected to a crt tv via emudriver, having the native resolution and refresh rates is a must for me... all the accuracy in the world would be ruined without it.

MiSTer supports that with its analog output. VRR was also a recent addition, so now you can get native refresh rates output via HDMI.

 

[lukilladog]

This is why i got a VRR monitor. It can display all these odd refresh rates without screen tearing or stutters.

RetroArch had the ability to adjust the speed of the games to sync to 60hz. That was a better solution that the above and it didn't affect sound tempo/pitch, but still not perfect since you were playing at the wrong speed (even slightly). But now they added a VRR option (sync to exact content frame rate) and it's perfect. Some standalone emulators also add VRR lately as well.

Well, I only use crt´s so that´s not a problem, however I wonder how the mister handles video output.

 

[nkarafo]

Just some of my examples:
-The recently released GleyLancer on modern consoles (which uses a form of emulator) has loads of input lag in comparison to playing it on Mega Drive. I could feel the difference immediately.

-Lots of different arcade shmups on retropi just dont feel right in comparison to either 16/32-bit original hardware versions or modern day releases like Cave's work on switch. But then - other shmups on retropi feel fine.

-Metroid 1 on the Dreamcast NES emulator - jumping feels nearly impossible. I was wondering why I was so terrible at the game after not playing it for decades - but when I hooked up my original NES a month later - I was able to pull off all the jumps with no problem. 100% input lag was the issue.

All of your examples are based on poor software emulators, the worst you can use. NES emulator on the DC? What kind of emulation you expect from that? And again, Retropie is the bottom of the barrel. And these retail emulation devices are usually the worst emulation has to offer.

Also, yeah, games tend to have native lag. For instance, Bubble Bobble on the arcades have zero frames of lag but something like Mortal Kombat has about 3. That's on the real arcade. SNES also had more lag in general compared to the Genesis. Mortal Kombat on the SNES was nearly unplayable because of it's huge native lag. Ofc, native lag will be an issue on Mister as well, since they accurately emulate these games. So it's not an issue about software emulation.

 

[InfiniteCombo]

If lag was such a pervasive thing as people make it out to be, the FightCade scene (often with pro-level players or even outright pros playing tight-input, fast-paced fighting games requiring reactions that can sometimes reach frames in the single digits) would not even be a thing.

Again, I'm not denying that lag may be a thing. But it's made out to be much more than I've experienced it to be. It may factually exist, but how often does it actually impact your gameplay experience when playing on a decent emulator on a decent PC?

This may sound like it's off topic, but it's not, as las is an often discussed aspect of any emulation, whether it's software or FPGA

 

[Naked Lunch]

All of your examples are based on poor software emulators, the worst you can use. NES emulator on the DC? What kind of emulation you expect from that? And again, Retropie is the bottom of the barrel. And these retail emulation devices are usually the worst emulation has to offer.

Yep I gotcha. I was just trying to list things off the top of my head I played recently - I know for sure I saw real deal input lag.

When I hooked my Dreamcast up and ran the NES emulator - initially im like - "hey I wont have to unearth my NES now" - that thought process changed very quick.

 

[GamingArena]

Got MiSTer 10 monhts ago and is the absolute best purchase i could of made, my favorite device probably ever, been playing games since Atari 2600, was pissed at my self how i found out about it only 10 months ago.

Just blown away what this little device can do, packed all my Amigas, C64/128, consoles in Storage and been just using MiSTer.

 

[VGEsoterica]

If lag was such a pervasive thing as people make it out to be, the FightCade scene (often with pro-level players or even outright pros playing tight-input, fast-paced fighting games requiring reactions that can sometimes reach frames in the single digits) would not even be a thing.

Again, I'm not denying that lag may be a thing. But it's made out to be much more than I've experienced it to be. It may factually exist, but how often does it actually impact your gameplay experience when playing on a decent emulator on a decent PC?

This may sound like it's off topic, but it's not, as las is an often discussed aspect of any emulation, whether it's software or FPGA

you have to remember...YOU dont get lag, and I don't get lag...but I assume you are like me and you have way too powerful of a PC / manage what's running in the background processes wise

MiSTer eliminates that need. But some people could have who knows what running along side an emulator

 

[InfiniteCombo]

you have to remember...YOU dont get lag, and I don't get lag...but I assume you are like me and you have way too powerful of a PC / manage what's running in the background processes wise

MiSTer eliminates that need. But some people could have who knows what running along side an emulator

I'll ask a dumb question, then: I assume MiSTer might be infinitely superior to, say, a Raspberry Pi, even though they're both technically devices that are "stand alone?" (i.e., no intrusive background or concurrent processes)?

 

[nkarafo]

you have to remember...YOU dont get lag, and I don't get lag...but I assume you are like me and you have way too powerful of a PC / manage what's running in the background processes wise

MiSTer eliminates that need. But some people could have who knows what running along side an emulator

I have an i5 4670. That's a 2013 CPU. I also have 16GB RAM and a GTX 1060. Nowadays, this isn't even considered as "mid-range" and would probably sell for less than 300$. The whole tower.

And it's running things like Cemu, Dolphin, Yuzu, etc just fine. I also run a huge collection with RetroArch and it's most accurate cores full speed (i use stuff like bsnes, messen and mGBA, not SNES9x, FCEU and Visual Boy Advance), including the likes of Mednafen Saturn. I also run mupen64plus-next with Parallel RDP and 2x upscaling. All the above with GPU sync enabled. With CRT shaders on top. With VRR enabled. No additional input lag. And in some cases i can even enable run ahead.

Again, the fact that you need a top-of-the range PC for good emulation is another myth. Yes, even my measly old PC is more powerful than a FPGA chip, and more power hungry. But it's not a powerful PC at all. The only emulators that need a modern mid-range PC are things like RPCS3 and xenia, for PS3 and XBOX 360 emulation.

I'll ask a dumb question, then: I assume MiSTer might be infinitely superior to, say, a Raspberry Pi, even though they're both technically devices that are "stand alone?" (i.e., no intrusive background or concurrent processes)?

The Raspberry Pi isn't the same type of device as the Mister. It's basically a very small, very weak multi-purpose PC running linux, with Retropie running at launch instead of the Linux desktop (but the desktop is still running in the background and you can easily quit retropie and use the Pi as a regular computer).

Since it's a PC, it shares the same disadvantages (a multi purpose CPU which must run everything in software and an OS on top of everything) but it also doesn't share any of the advantages of a regular PC because it's way too weak to do anything PC Gaming related.

The Mister isn't much more powerful but it's chips are not multipurpose CPUs that you use to run any program you want, they are chips that can be altered to run a specific thing and that specific thing will run much more efficiently. This is why you get accurate emulation with a chip that probably has fewer transistors/gates than the weakest Pi CPU you can get (not sure about the exact numbers though).

 

[Spukc]

Why Spend $80 on an SNES Classic When You Can Install Emulators on a Raspberry Pi and Never Shut the Fuck Up About It?

Nintendo’s highly coveted SNES Classic Mini system comes out today and is certain to be a hot item. A word of advice to gamers who…

hard-drive.net

why get a MiSTer when you can just get a pi for 1 tenth of the cost ?

 

[nkarafo]

Anyway, here's a summary about emulation devices:

The bad:

- Official minis: Some are just good enough to run certain games, some are bad (lol Sony PS1). They are all very weak devices running ok-ish software emulation. I don't have one so i don't know about input lag. Nice shells though.
- Other official/retail standalone emulation devices: Probably the absolute worst you can get for emulation. High input lag, the worst emulation software, etc. Avoid those at all costs.
- Emulators running in official services. Again, these are some of the worst software emulators you can get. It's funny because they used to be decent in the past (the Wii N64 VC was better than whatever was in WiiU and Switch).
- Raspberry Pi/Retropie : Pretty similar to the above but it's homebrew so it's better by default. You still get more input lag and most emulators are pretty bad or performance based, so emulation is mediocre at best.

The Good:

- Mister FPGA and other known FPGAs: Good, accurate emulation, low input lag, very low power consumption. But you need multiple Mister devices because each one emulates a single system.
- Low/Mid-range PCs: Good, accurate emulation, low input lag, you can emulate every system on a single PC. It also allows many more extras and options than FPGAs. But it has the highest power consumption and it's more expensive.

 

[Spukc]

Anyway, here's a summary about emulation devices:

The bad:

- Official minis: Some are just good enough to run certain games, some are bad (lol Sony PS1). They are all very weak devices running ok-ish software emulation. I don't have one so i don't know about input lag. Nice shells though.
- Other official/retail standalone emulation devices: Probably the absolute worst you can get for emulation. High input lag, the worst emulation software, etc. Avoid those at all costs.
- Emulators running in official services. Again, these are some of the worst software emulators you can get. It's funny because they used to be decent in the past (the Wii N64 VC was better than whatever was in WiiU and Switch).
- Raspberry Pi/Retropie : Pretty similar to the above but it's homebrew so it's better by default. You still get more input lag and most emulators are pretty bad or performance based, so emulation is mediocre at best.

The Good:

- Mister FPGA and other known FPGAs: Good, accurate emulation, low input lag, very low power consumption. But you need multiple Mister devices because each one emulates a single system.
- Low/Mid-range PCs: Good, accurate emulation, low input lag, you can emulate every system on a single PC. It also allows many more extras and options than FPGAs. But it has the highest power consumption and it's more expensive.

this thread made me update my MiSTer again.. that ps1 core is making jumps.

 

[nkarafo]

this thread made me update my MiSTer again.. that ps1 core is making jumps.

What's the status of the Saturn core?

The Saturn is the only system that has an FPGA while every other software solution sucks. Not so much in compatibility/accuracy, Mednafen is great. But they suck because of the input lag. All Saturn emulators suffer from increased input lag. For some reason none of the developers have figured out how to solve this. Maybe Mister has the answer?