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Mistwalker

WULFER said:
So you know the teams personally??? Wow I like to know those people do you have their individual staff numbers? Do you know if they've improved over their last games?? That's alot of knowledge you have there if you do... Did you know Sony created Blasto before they made anything good! Don't know Blasto really that's because it was a failure on the PSX. Ohh that's right they can't have success because they failed before sorry your right.

You're missing the point entirely. No one is saying the game isn't going to be good. They're saying they have doubts about it because of who's developing it. What's wrong with that? If a company has a track record of making amazing games, people will have more confidence that it's going to turn out good. But when their track record isn't so good, then there's not going to be as much confidence there about the games quality. Doesn't mean they'll never make a good game, it just means that there will be doubts there till they do.
 
SolidSnakex said:
You're missing the point entirely. No one is saying the game isn't going to be good. They're saying they have doubts about it because of who's developing it. What's wrong with that?
Doubts about quality and doubts about it "bombing" due to platform are 2 different things. You're the only one bringing up the former in this thread.
 
PhatSaqs said:
Doubts about quality and doubts about it "bombing" due to platform are 2 different things. You're the only one bringing up the former in this thread.
They're both valid. Quality because of the developers heritage and the latter due to the fact that the platform isn't accustomed to games of the genre.
 
Hey, come on. The 100,000 people in Japan that will have a 360 by the time the games come out deserve quality rpg's that they will love.
 
I'm pretty burned out on JRPGs, particularly the cuter ones (with the exception of Paper Mario), but that Blue Dragon video looks damn nice. Just gave me a Miyazaki vibe, especially the airships. Wonder what sort of budget the game has? Makes me think about what S-E could do next-gen.

wulfer said:
The more I read this thread the more it sounds like people hope these games bomb on 360.

There's some people you just have to expect that response from. Make use of the ignore feature and browsing will be much more pleasant (although half of this particular thread disappeared thanks to my existing ignore list :lol).
 
Striek said:
They're both valid. Quality because of the developers heritage and the latter due to the fact that the platform isn't accustomed to games of the genre.
I agree 100% that they're both valid. But I was backing WULFERs points on bias and the retarded discussions on the games bombing sans hoping for a good game that does well.
 
a little late to the BD trailer, bloody hell that looks amazing.

and the whole point about Mistwalker games bombing... I hope that doesn't happen I mean we need new franchises and a company that at least can be another RPG powerhouse like Atlus and Square Enix.

switching back to the BD trailer good god, the day this game gets release is the day I'm buying a 360.
 
Whoa...didn't even see that link to the BD footage 'til a few minutes ago. NICE! I love the expressive nature of the characters, even despite the DBZ/Toriyama look. It's like a CG anime. I just hope this isn't monotonous and just plain boring, like most JRPGs I've played.
 
PC Gaijin said:
I'm pretty burned out on JRPGs, particularly the cuter ones (with the exception of Paper Mario), but that Blue Dragon video looks damn nice.
Same here. I'm a bit tired of these teenage heroes in JRPGs (Mario's da man cause he's middle-aged).
 
jett said:
Because quality guarantees success, right? :P

RE4 on GC, KoTOR on xbox, just to give examples of outstanding games that sells well on consoles that aren't "suitable" for its genre.
 
FiRez said:
RE4 on GC, KoTOR on xbox, just to give examples of outstanding games that sells well on consoles that aren't "suitable" for its genre.
RE4 on GC was on a console where the audience HAD to migrate to play the games from the beginning of the gen. Even then, sales are poor (though, same for PS2, Capcom clusterfucked their franchise).
KoTOR had decent sales, and games of its type aren't wildly prominent on any system, the best comparison for it is that those games sell well on PC, and the Xbox is, of course, said to have a large PC contingent. It was also a highly promoted exclusive title.

I personally think BD/LO will be great games but poor sellers, the audience in Japan won't go ga-ga for X360 over a few titles, and the western audience tends not to buy JRPGs of any calibur that aren't called Final Fantasy, at least not massively, certainly not enough to recoup the $20milllion+ development costs & marketing. But who knows...
 
StephaneC said:
there is nothing incredible on this trailer (the water maybe) ...

and Dragon Quest 8 looks better [/Himuro] :lol :lol

I'm not even a fan of the JRPG genre, but the game looks "next-gen" enough

edit: just saw the new trailer, wow!!! it really looks awesome!, love the music too
 
SolidSnakex said:
Just because i'm a Sony fanboy doesn't mean I go around hoping other systems bomb. But for the most part people in this thread are being realistic. Are you telling me you have no doubts about a game being developed by a company who's previous games are Blinx and Pinobee? That's not doom and gloom, that's being realistic.

Realistic my ass... the naysayers have already labeled the 360 a complete failure. It's only been out for 3 weeks. There is no magical eight ball in the gaming industry. Anything can happen and things don't always turn out like GAF thinks they will. See DS vs. PSP
 
SolidSnakex said:
Just because i'm a Sony fanboy doesn't mean I go around hoping other systems bomb. But for the most part people in this thread are being realistic. Are you telling me you have no doubts about a game being developed by a company who's previous games are Blinx and Pinobee? That's not doom and gloom, that's being realistic.
sorta like, Killzone and Heavenly Sword! solid snake or two-headed snake? :)

If Mistwalker games interest you, buy an Xbox 360!
 
Yep, by your logic SolidSnake KillZone doesn't have a chance on PS3 so, why even bother! KillZone was a failure in sales why should KillZone 2 do any better? See it's not fun when your own words back you in a corner is it!
 
but have you ever voice your doubts about them? :)

after watching the daftly put trailers, i was looking forward to GAF positive reactions, what i read instead is doubts doom and gloom!

MISTWALKER SHOULD MAKE GAMES FOR PS3!

If the games turned out to be good, here's an idea, buy an Xbox 360! They are your killer apps.
 
Kobun Heat said:
See, as I tried to point out, it's not Mistwalker's problem. Mistwalker doesn't HAVE the problem; their profit is all guaranteed up front.

Saying "had this game been on a PS3" is like saying "What if the Xbox 360 was made out of cold fusion and free blowjobs and cost five cents?" Neither is actually possible. These games only exist because of the 360 and Microsoft's willingness to provide phenomenal levels of seed money to small Japanese developers with big-name talent in the hopes of establishing credibility.

Again: it's not Mistwalker's problem. Mistwalker's making out like a goddamned bandit. It's Microsoft's issue, because they very well might not see any return on their investment.
This post is so amazingly and exactly correct I don't even know why the thread is continuing. Kobun has absolutely hit the nail on the head here people.

And for the individual who said Sakaguchi should've gone to Sony for funding, I'll tell you why he didn't (or more likely did, but chose MS instead); there is no way in hell Sony would ever give Mistwaker the amount of cash that MS did. Fact.

$20m for each of these games is a lot of money. That is full scale, premier budget kind of cash, that only a handful of titles are given per generation. Right now, there is no reason whatsoever for Sony to dish out that kind of cash when they have a shitton of third parties begging to throw RPGs at their systems, not to mention they already have Level 5, who I believe is their premier second party dev in Japan right now (I don't think they spend more money on anyone else, let alone for RPG's). L5 is more established and has a proven record of delivering profit making hits (Rogue Galaxy brought in close to ¥1.7b in just it's first week, which is just under $15m USD).

Why throw $40m at a guy who hasn't had a hands on role in game development in over 5 years? MS on the other hand, has all the reasons in the world. First and foremost, they are ridiculously desperate to make a name for themselves in Japan, and to get legitimate jRPG's on the Xbox.

Mistwaker went to MS because they now have the capital leverage to begin projects on systems that will actually generate profits for themselves. ASH is a perfect example. Now don't confuse this with Mistwaker using MS' funds to make ASH, they aren't; what they're doing is they are taking advantage of the cash influx from MS, which is keeping the company alive and afloat, to venture out onto other, more profitable projects. Mistwaker doesn't give a shit how much these titles sell (you damn well better believe they ain't going to see a penny from 'em), all they want is to build a name brand right now.
 
WULFER said:
Yep, by your logic SolidSnake KillZone doesn't have a chance on PS3 so, why even bother! KillZone was a failure in sales why should KillZone 2 do any better? See it's not fun when your own words back you in a corner is it!

Are you even reading what i'm typing? I'm not saying the games will suck or they shouldn't try to make them, i'm saying it shouldn't be a shock to anyone that someone would have doubts about a game coming from a dev that hasn't done anything impressive. Same would go for Killzone, people are going to have doubts about it until Guerilla makes a great game.
 
Heian-kyo said:
This post is so amazingly and exactly correct I don't even know why the thread is continuing. Kobun has absolutely hit the nail on the head here people.

And for the individual who said Sakaguchi should've gone to Sony for funding, I'll tell you why he didn't (or more likely did, but chose MS instead); there is no way in hell Sony would ever give Mistwaker the amount of cash that MS did. Fact.

$20m for each of these games is a lot of money. That is full scale, premier budget kind of cash, that only a handful of titles are given per generation. Right now, there is no reason whatsoever for Sony to dish out that kind of cash when they have a shitton of third parties begging to throw RPGs at their systems, not to mention they already have Level 5, who I believe is their premier second party dev in Japan right now (I don't think they spend more money on anyone else, let alone for RPG's). L5 is more established and has a proven record of delivering profit making hits (Rogue Galaxy brought in close to ¥1.7b in just it's first week, which is just under $15m USD).

Why throw $40m at a guy who hasn't had a hands on role in game development in over 5 years? MS on the other hand, has all the reasons in the world. First and foremost, they are ridiculously desperate to make a name for themselves in Japan, and to get legitimate jRPG's on the Xbox.

Mistwaker went to MS because they now have the capital leverage to begin projects on systems that will actually generate profits for themselves. ASH is a perfect example. Now don't confuse this with Mistwaker using MS' funds to make ASH, they aren't; what they're doing is they are taking advantage of the cash influx from MS, which is keeping the company alive and afloat, to venture out onto other, more profitable projects. Mistwaker doesn't give a shit how much these titles sell (you damn well better believe they ain't going to see a penny from 'em), all they want is to build a name brand right now.

I can't believe you typed this shit in when it's so obvious. Why does it matter, anyway? MS has to invest a lot of cash to build up to the level of very Japanese-specific offerings in Japan that Sony gets by having been the dominant force there for almost 10 years now. Big whoop-de-do.
 
Well if you truly think that then no the system race isn't over and all 3 companies have a lot to prove. M$ finding and keeping killer apps, Sony all these promises about online and functionality and Nintendo please give us more than a few games....
 
Heian-kyo said:
This post is so amazingly and exactly correct I don't even know why the thread is continuing.

Yeah dude, because this was SOOOO a doom and gloom thread about mistwalker. That's totally what the original poster envisioned! Now that he hit right on the head the thread is over! People who only care about whether or not they will actually be GOOD games be damned! Sales are all that matter!

THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
briefcasemanx said:
Yeah dude, because this was SOOOO a doom and gloom thread about mistwalker. That's totally what the original poster envisioned! Now that he hit right on the head the thread is over! People who only care about whether or not they will actually be GOOD games be damned! Sales are all that matter!

THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, wrong choice of word there definitely. Apologies on that. I meant the discussion on that specific aspect is done, because Kobun's comments were on the money.
 
Yup. Had the games they were making were PS3 games only there would be none of this BS. A lot of the post would be about how amazing Blue Dragon looks and how smart Sony was to get these guys on board. But it's on the 360. We have to look at market penetration. We have to see why MS "PAID" them money to "WORK" on a game and how Sony doesn't have to and blah blah blah....

Maybe when both games come out more Japanese gamers will get 360's? If not I'm sure a lot of copies will be sold over here and Europe. Anywas isn't this thread about how he thinks these guys might actually grow as a company? How he's happy about the team they put together? Let's keep this thread about that. No reason why every 360 thread has to become a 360/PS3 fanboy pissing contest.

And don't they still have Sakaguchi as overlord and designer? Artoon may be programming and directing but they still have to answer to the people waving the money (MS, Sakaguchi). Let's just hope they don't let them make a bad game. Looking at the overall team, I doubt they will let that happen.
 
Same here. I'm a bit tired of these teenage heroes in JRPGs (Mario's da man cause he's middle-aged).

Kaim from Lost Odyssey is 1000 years old!

Anyway, guys, there's no chance of MW becoming a "giant" unless Sakaguchi changes his mind. He's said that the whole point of MW is that he doesn't want to run a development studio.
 
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen said:
Anyway, guys, there's no chance of MW becoming a "giant" unless Sakaguchi changes his mind. He's said that the whole point of MW is that he doesn't want to run a development studio.

So is MistWalker going to forever farm the actual technical work out to other companies and just do the design work themselves, or what?
 
Haklong said:
Yup. Had the games they were making were PS3 games only there would be none of this BS. A lot of the post would be about how amazing Blue Dragon looks and how smart Sony was to get these guys on board. But it's on the 360. We have to look at market penetration. We have to see why MS "PAID" them money to "WORK" on a game and how Sony doesn't have to and blah blah blah....
Sony-Age indeed.
 
Haklong said:
Yup. Had the games they were making were PS3 games only there would be none of this BS. A lot of the post would be about how amazing Blue Dragon looks and how smart Sony was to get these guys on board. But it's on the 360. We have to look at market penetration. We have to see why MS "PAID" them money to "WORK" on a game and how Sony doesn't have to and blah blah blah....

Indeed. In fact, I would bet money on it. Instead, this thread turned into how Mistwalker games will fail...because X360 will fail..or some such shit.

Maybe when both games come out more Japanese gamers will get 360's? If not I'm sure a lot of copies will be sold over here and Europe. Anywas isn't this thread about how he thinks these guys might actually grow as a company? How he's happy about the team they put together? Let's keep this thread about that. No reason why every 360 thread has to become a 360/PS3 fanboy pissing contest.

If they're both quality titles, and MS promotes them well, there shouldn't be any reason for these games to not sell pretty well. I don't think anyone's expecting 3 million + sellers here.

And don't they still have Sakaguchi as overlord and designer? Artoon may be programming and directing but they still have to answer to the people waving the money (MS, Sakaguchi). Let's just hope they don't let them make a bad game. Looking at the overall team, I doubt they will let that happen.

Mistwalker is in creative/design control of the games, and have a lot riding on their success as these are their flagship titles. I'm not going to bother getting all ridiculous 'n' shit about the fact that the teams programming the games aren't exactly known for their stellar titles... Artoon should do fine for their part in BD that they have, as Blinx, IMO, was more a 'failure' of design and not technical shortcomings than anything else. The team handling LO should also be just focused on the technical aspect of the game, and, obviously not the design...so I think things are fine until there's real reason to think otherwise.

Zilch said:
So is MistWalker going to forever farm the actual technical work out to other companies and just do the design work themselves, or what?

Yeah, I think that's the plan.
 
Zilch said:
So is MistWalker going to forever farm the actual technical work out to other companies and just do the design work themselves, or what?

That seems to be the case, yes.
 
WULFER said:
The more I read this thread the more it sounds like people hope these games bomb on 360. What happened to hoping for good games to have success? Stop with the doom and gloom and support good games instead of bitching about how their gonna suck in this country or on that system. You guys make it sound like Japan won't buy a 360 because it's made by an American company. Is Japan really that inscure about the videogame industry? What happens if (American's, Canadian's, European's etc.) said I'm not buying this because it's from Japan? What kind of CRAP is that people? By the games not the countries people get over the bias crap!
Post of the day!

handclap.gif.gif
 
So is MistWalker going to forever farm the actual technical work out to other companies and just do the design work themselves, or what?

Yeah. Mistwalker's business isn't just to produce design specs, but also to coordinate the various freelancers who work on the games. For Lost Odyssey they lined up Uematsu, a famous manga author (Takehiko Inoue), an established novelist (Kiyoshi Shigematsu), the director of the Bayside Shakedown movies, a few established concept artists and matte painters from the movie industry who worked on FF:TSW, maybe others.
 
WULFER said:
The more I read this thread the more it sounds like people hope these games bomb on 360. What happened to hoping for good games to have success? Stop with the doom and gloom and support good games instead of bitching about how their gonna suck in this country or on that system. You guys make it sound like Japan won't buy a 360 because it's made by an American company. Is Japan really that inscure about the videogame industry? What happens if (American's, Canadian's, European's etc.) said I'm not buying this because it's from Japan? What kind of CRAP is that people? By the games not the countries people get over the bias crap!

Dude's got a point
 
Interesting. That seems like a really cool way to put together a game. I hope it works out for the Gooch.

edit: could a few more xbots post in agreement with WULFER's post? Thanks!
 
Zilch said:
edit: could a few more xbots post in agreement with WULFER's post? Thanks!

Well, AltogetherAndrews, for one, has traded in his Xbot jacket for one of the Sony variety. And, truth be told, he's really just a PC fanwhore that has had to resort to consoles just to have actual games to play. ;)
 
Zilch said:
Interesting. That seems like a really cool way to put together a game. I hope it works out for the Gooch.

edit: could a few more xbots post in agreement with WULFER's post? Thanks!

Agreeing with common sense = behaving like an Xbot? No wonder this board has issues. I don't know about you, but this whole doubt thing is starting to get ridiculous around here. I'm not saying I'm innocent in this, but that certainly doesn't make it any better.

As of right now, both Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon look like they are heading in the right direction. Artoon is doing the grunt work, and as such it is being directed by some of the most capable people in this particular field. The games look awesome, the concepts sound awesome... so why do people feel the need to bitch about it, let alone go on about the certain future failure?
 
WULFER said:
The more I read this thread the more it sounds like people hope these games bomb on 360. What happened to hoping for good games to have success? Stop with the doom and gloom and support good games instead of bitching about how their gonna suck in this country or on that system. You guys make it sound like Japan won't buy a 360 because it's made by an American company. Is Japan really that inscure about the videogame industry? What happens if (American's, Canadian's, European's etc.) said I'm not buying this because it's from Japan? What kind of CRAP is that people? By the games not the countries people get over the bias crap!

.... and all I read from you is 360 blowjobs, so what is your point? People have biases here- and you are a prime example of that, regardless of whatever your next horseshit "I LOVE ALL SYSTEMS" cover-your-own-ass response will be.
 
Odysseus said:
Well, AltogetherAndrews, for one, has traded in his Xbot jacket for one of the Sony variety. And, truth be told, he's really just a PC fanwhore that has had to resort to consoles just to have actual games to play. ;)
There's nothing wrong with agreeing with someone if their right... no matter what goggles they're wearing.
 
Blaster1X said:
There's nothing wrong with agreeing with someone if their right... no matter what goggles they're wearing.

Except what he's saying is common sense with a bit of wonderland. It's not the people on GAF here who are the problem and should be yelled at, it's all the "average joe" guys/girls out there who don't buy Japanese rpgs because it's "Japanese anime crap" and the Japanese guys/girls who don't buy Western FPS games because they're "Western generic crap". Sadly, this is never going to stop or change, so saying people in various countries need to drop their biases is cute but it's like talking to a wall.
 
Did you happen to catch Dragon Quest VIII's November sales numbers,

Umm, they were never posted here. I know I'm optimistic, but until I see numbers, I refuse to believe that the game bombed as hard as the pessimists say.
 
Bebpo said:
Except what he's saying is common sense with a bit of wonderland. It's not the people on GAF here who are the problem and should be yelled at, it's all the "average joe" guys/girls out there who don't buy Japanese rpgs because it's "Japanese anime crap" and the Japanese guys/girls who don't buy Western FPS games because they're "Western generic crap". Sadly, this is never going to stop or change, so saying people in various countries need to drop their biases is cute but it's like talking to a wall.

very nice. I agree.

I always laughed during this past gen (PS2/XBox/NGC) when Xbots would slam FF because it was predominantly a Sony franchise, not to mention the dreaded JRPG, yet when rumors came out about FF(whatever) coming to a MS system (specifically the rumor of, say, FFXIII going multi-platform), all the sudden these sons of bitches would be all excited and their hate for FF and JRPGs in general took a complete change.
The same goes the other way, with Sony fans slamming western RPGs like KotOR, yet when rumors of Bioware moving to EXCLUSIVE PS3 development, all the sudden it was "OMFG YES! BIOWARE FOR PS3!!!!!!1"

This type of shit never changes.

Again, I hope The Gooch does well, regardless of platform. He is (with FF) the reason I'm still playing video games, to be honest. Just when I thought I was getting 'too old and cool' to play video games, FFIV pulled me back in during Christmas 1991. :D
 
Link1110 said:
Umm, they were never posted here. I know I'm optimistic, but until I see numbers, I refuse to believe that the game bombed as hard as the pessimists say.
yes they were sure not the exact figure but they were posted, the game sold about 85k give or take.
 
yeah, but didn't DQVIII sell like 3 million in Japan alone?

Not that it has much relevance to the US sales, but what it made in Japan is more than what most games make worldwide, correct? US/Europe sales are, and always have been, just icing on the cake for Yuji Hori.
 
About Artoon, remember that a lot of the people there also worked on well-regarded games at Sega. In fact, the director of Blue Dragon was a lead programmer on Nights and Burning Rangers, and the art director was the lead artist for Panzer Dragoon 1-2 and Panzer Dragoon Saga. I don't think you can always make predictions about new games based on the developers' past work (of course this goes for Sakaguchi and co. as well)
 
Being Mistwalker must be alot of fun. Basically doing all the fun part of making a game while other teams doing 'most' of the hard work.
 
Wollan said:
Being Mistwalker must be alot of fun. Basically doing all the fun part of making a game while other teams doing 'most' of the hard work.
except the "fun" part is the most critical aspect of a game :P
 
FiRez said:
RE4 on GC, KoTOR on xbox, just to give examples of outstanding games that sells well on consoles that aren't "suitable" for its genre.

Well, arguably, most of the sales for KOTOR came from the license. Jade Empire, a similar styled RPG from the same developers, didn't do nearly as well.

I would really love to see both Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey turn out to be quality games that sell well. I used to love the Final Fantasy series with Sakaguchi at the helm... so I've got my fingers crossed that he still has the magical touch.
 
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