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[Draft]

In his DICE session today, Microsoft Games supremo Peter Moore demonstrated Windows Vista, and admitted that the company has been culpable in PC game's decline in retail sales.
ImageMoore said, "It's a dereliction of duty. We've been distracted. It's not helped that the PC market has seen some challenges."

He said that Microsoft's recent reorganization would help the company "focus on the games business as a standalone business."

"Previously, we operated under separate units," he said. "Everything is now being brought together to build truly cohesive, integrated marketing."

"The future is about PC games and Vista is at the vanguard of that."

He said that Vista would drive PC upgrades which would help game sales, and gave an impressive demonstration of how Vista improves the gaming experience through better file organization.

Moore once again put the pressure on his own company to push game sales. "We have seen years of decline in PC games retail sales. As a platform holder, we need to drive sales."

However, he pointed out that online games revenues are increasing dramatically. Worldwide retail game sales in 2005 $3.3 billion compared to $2 billion in online game sales, which includes subscriptions. He said that by 2009 game retail sales would hold steady, but online revenues would increase to a whopping $6.8 billion dollars.

"Our consumer is more comfortable buying online than going to the retail store. We are seeing great growth online, and as an industry, we need to be at the center of that growth."

Moore addressed an issue that isn't usually given much thought, arguing that PC games packaging needs to be standardized. "I go into retail outlets to look at PC games, and quite frankly, it's a mess. We need to make the last three feet of the sale - the reach and grab - much easier by driving a retail standard around the world."

He also said that a "cohesive online solution is a target for the company for the next six months." The company is also working on a "unified brand" for PC gaming.

"Building brands is a key responsibility for us as a platform holder."

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2238&Itemid=2

I know a lot of you neck-bearded basement dwellers shake with nerd rage at the slightest hint of Microsoft doing anything, and even more of you scoff and heehaw about having to buy Vista to play 2 year old Xbox games, but this is a very, very good thing. PC gaming is different enough from console gaming that our hobby would be done a drastic disservice by allowing it to die.

Digital distribution for the win.

 

[Archie]

Halo 2 on Vista will make everything better

 

[monchi-kun]

it's the platform where indie devs will find most accomodating to new ideas, gameplay mechanics, and developer-friendly/centric distribution

 

[Ranger X]

What kills PC gaming is the dynamic of how it works and nothing else. If people wouldn't have to buy X and Y hardware all the time, this market would go up.

 

[gopher]

True next-gen doesn't start before Vista. And MS will be the next-gen leader.

Mark my words.

 

[Cpl_Cain]

But will it be like a lucid dream?

 

[Cheebs]

PC gaming wont have a huge comback. PC's time to shine has long since past. I see boosts like HL 2+WOW gave the market happening once in a while, but nothing drastic. PC gaming is a niche market compared to console/portables now and it will remain so.

 

[D2M15]

At the risk of being branded a nerdy, neck-bearded basement dweller (despite the fact that I am typing this on a hugely expensive laptop while reclining on a yacht in Barbados, fending off the amorous intent of my Slovakian au pair) my concern is that most PC-favouring developers choose it because they're not beholden to a platform holder intent on driving sales by leveraging brands.

But I expect - well, I hope - Microsoft knows that too, and it's probably also aware that PC gaming will continue to stumble along with or without its help.

 

[Chiggs]

Let's just get this out of the way before the thread gets any bigger:

"VISTA SUCKS!"

"MICRO$OFT SUCKS!"

"PC Gaming is dying; consoles are the future."

"Halo 2 is a piece of shit, and there are much better FPS's available on the pc."

"Bungie fucks over Mac users once again!"

"Google OS will probably kill Vista."

"Linux is better."

"Microsoft will have blackmail developers to make games for Vista - that's how shitty it is."

"Xbox 360 will eventually have zero exclusive games - everything will be ported to Vista at some point. Sony will capitalize on this."

"Apple will dominate desktop sales by the end of 2006."

 

[siege]

PC gaming is far too expensive. Not enough good games released a year to justify the price of owning a nice machine.

 

[sprsk]

apparently the 360 was just a distraction

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

Vista and 360 will make sweet love to each other.

 

[Amir0x]

*dumb stuff*

Oh brother, give the shit a rest.

 

[Danj]

Let's just get this out of the way before the thread gets any bigger:

"VISTA SUCKS!"

Protected Video Path and Protected User Mode Audio say hi. Vista includes DRM technologies for which the hardware isn't even out yet!

"Halo 2 is a piece of shit, and there are much better FPS's available on the pc."

I don't know that I'd say Halo 2 is a piece of shit, but you surely have to admit there are newer FPSes that are better.

"Bungie fucks over Mac users once again!"

Since Bungie were originally a Mac company, I doubt they really want to fuck Mac users over, but with Microsoft paying the piper and calling the tune, they don't get a lot of choice in the matter.

"Google OS will probably kill Vista."

"Xbox 360 will eventually have zero exclusive games - everything will be ported to Vista at some point. Sony will capitalize on this."

"Apple will dominate desktop sales by the end of 2006."

These three statements seem pretty ridiculous.

"Linux is better."

Linux is better - at some things. Not games, though.

"Microsoft will have blackmail developers to make games for Vista - that's how shitty it is."

I think what you mean is "Microsoft will have to give out moneyhats to developers to make PC games Vista-only". I am hoping this is not a trend that will catch on, because I'm not planning to upgrade to Vista any time soon (or indeed ever, if I can possibly avoid it).

 

[fennec fox]

I don't see why having to buy yet another OS upgrade and the hardware required to run it optimally will somehow inspire masses of people to join this renaissance.

 

[fronn]

I don't see how he can say that with a straight face, knowing full well his Xbox is the biggest reason for its problems in the last few years... and will likely continue on that route (they've locked in a lot of the PC devs that made PC gaming good, although there is still a few good pc games on the horizon that aren't being butchered to fit on consoles). Outside of MMOs there ain't much on the PC lately.

Fucking Xbox and it's cannibalization of PC market! (tee hee -- that's for you, Borys).

 

[Chairman Yang]

PC gaming wont have a huge comback. PC's time to shine has long since past. I see boosts like HL 2+WOW gave the market happening once in a while, but nothing drastic. PC gaming is a niche market compared to console/portables now and it will remain so.

You're smart.

Except more people play PC games than console games, and the PC market has been steadily growing (if you take into account online sales), and 2006 seems like it'll be an amazing year for PC gaming (and possibly better than any individual console). You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[sidnotcrazy]

PC gaming is far too expensive. Not enough good games released a year to justify the price of owning a nice machine.

This is what got me out of PC gaming a long time ago. I honestly don't know anything about the PC gaming industry, but this is why PC games fell out of favor with me, and almost everyone I know feels the same way.

There are some games that are a huge success on the PC, like WoW. But overall it is an expensive platform to get involved with.

 

[FartOfWar]

I figured Chiggs was being facetious. If so, lol at replies.

 

[momolicious]

i think the problem is, pc games are easily pirated

 

[BunnyLifeguard]

"He said that by 2009 game retail sales would hold steady, but online revenues would increase to a whopping $6.8 billion dollars"

Mainly because PS3 and Rev.

 

[madara]

I'm surprised its even doing that well. $600 video cards every 6 months, no thanks. I only upgrade every 5 years and last few years I dont really get play good stuff to well.

 

[Kolgar]

I don't see why having to buy yet another OS upgrade and the hardware required to run it optimally will somehow inspire masses of people to join this renaissance.

Hear, hear!

PC gaming is now, for me, no longer worth the time, money, or trouble - especially now that we're upon the next gen of consoles.

 

[ToxicAdam]

I'm surprised its even doing that well. $600 video cards every 6 months, no thanks. I only upgrade every 5 years and last few years I dont really get play good stuff to well.

I hate this retarded logic. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY A 600 DOLLAR CARD, EVER. FUCKING EVER!


As an example, I bought an x700 for 200 dollars back in January of 2005. I was able to play HL2 and any other game .. during the summer BF2, CIV 4 and AOE 3 run smooth as butter ... a year later I will still be able to play GOW, GRAW, NWN 2, etc. I will probably be good for the first half of this year too, before I start to take some serious performance hits.

So, when I am ready to buy a new card in the fall, the x700 will have lasted me 18 months and I will be able to buy a far superior card for 200 dollars again, and the cycle repeats itself.


--------


Even that 200 dollars every 15-18 months is offset by the fact that many, many PC games provide you with 1000's of gaming hours per title. Console gaming cannot match that type of output. It would take you 5 or 6 console games to match the type of gameplay you can get out of BF2, Civ 4, WOW etc etc. Some of the games you could play every night for years before tiring from them.

Then you factor in the free games (from free MMORPGS to free flash games), the free multiplayer aspect and the ability to play player made mods/maps. It's the best value in gaming, bar none.

 

[araganekyassuru]

so wait, he's trying to spin that ms isn't killing pc gaming as we speak? man he must be one dizzy sob

 

[BunnyLifeguard]

I Even that 200 dollars every 15-18 months is offset by the fact that many, many PC games provide you with 1000's of gaming hours per title. Console gaming cannot match that type of output. It would take you 5 or 6 console games to match the type of gameplay you can get out of BF2, Civ 4, WOW etc etc. Some of the games you could play every night for years before tiring from them.

You mean like Halo 2, Socom, Forza, Tekken, Smash Bros Melee, Phantasy Star Online n Shit?

 

[bee]

I dont think pc gaming is too expensive at all , if u buy a machine with good base components like monitor,case,power supply,hardrive etc those things will last u probably 5 years or more then every 2 years your probably gonna have to upgrade the internals motherboard , memory , graphics card , cpu and unless u stupidly buy the top of the range wildly overpriced parts thats gonna set u back around $500 every 2 years , think of it as buying 8 xbox 360 games at once every 2 years

Of course you've still gotta buy software on top of that but pc games are way cheaper than their console counterparts and typically will last u a lot longer.

 

[mrklaw]

he needs to re-read his 'plate spinning for dummies'

Chapter one clearly states to get one plate spinning properly before you start on a second

 

[Borys]

PC gaming is far too expensive.

100% wrong.
It's as expensive (or as cheap) as YOU want it to be.

Not enough good games released a year to justify the price of owning a nice machine.

100% right.
Not enough exclusives = not enough reasons to stay on the PC side.

"Hey I can play the same fucking game on my Xbox/ Xbox 360. Why should I bother with upgrading my GFX, RAM, CPU?"

Funny how Moore, of all people, is praising PC gaming.

Here's a hint, dude: your own fucking company BURIED it with the release of Xbox.

Oh well - Vista marketing FTW!

PS Yeah I had a very bad day...

 

[bee]

it all depends what types of games your into , sure if your into japanese rpg's or platformers etc then pc aint the platform for you clearly , but if your main games are say fps , rts or sim racing games then the pc cant be beat for those genres and it really doesnt matter if there exclusive or not , games like quake 4 simply cant be played properly on any other platform than pc.

 

[Draft]

Borys how is your neck-beard?

 

[siege]

100% wrong.
It's as expensive (or as cheap) as YOU want it to be.



100% right.
Not enough exclusives = not enough reasons to stay on the PC side.

"Hey I can play the same fucking game on my Xbox/ Xbox 360. Why should I bother with upgrading my GFX, RAM, CPU?"

Funny how Moore, of all people, is praising PC gaming.

Here's a hint, dude: your own fucking company BURIED it with the release of Xbox.

Oh well - Vista marketing FTW!

PS Yeah I had a very bad day...

Borys, I love PC gaming, baby. I really do. However, it's not cheap. I recently looked at what it would cost me to get an average machine, capable of running games like Oblivion, GRAW, etc and it's about $1200 (not including a new monitor.)

If I wanted the performance that I'd get from the 360, I'd probably be looking at a 3 grand machine. I agree with you about MS basically killing PC gaming with the Xbox. Just about every big release now is going to be on both the PC and 360, so why not go with the one time $400 to play them? It sucks, but I just can't afford to lay that much down when there is such a cheap alternative, despite heavily preferring a mouse/keyboard control scheme.

 

[Borys]

Borys, I love PC gaming, baby. I really do. However, it's not cheap. I recently looked at what it would cost me to get an average machine, capable of running games like Oblivion, GRAW, etc and it's about $1200 (not including a new monitor.)

If I wanted the performance that I'd get from the 360, I'd probably be looking at a 3 grand machine. I agree with you about MS basically killing PC gaming with the Xbox. Just about every big release now is going to be on both the PC and 360, so why not go with the one time $400 to play them? It sucks, but I just can't afford to lay that much down when there is such a cheap alternative, despite heavily preferring a mouse/keyboard control scheme.

My points exactly, and yeah building a PC that gives you the same power as 360 will cost you easily $1200.

So sad.

 

[Tain]

PC gaming is an open platform. Just as console gaming's strength lies in standards, PC gaming will always have its place due to how open it is. Until I can sit down on the latest console and code something legally while swappning hardware in and out of it, at least.

The customization is there and huge. The hardware requirements are completely up and open for any developer to select any set of hardware they want. The machine itself can be used in countless ways, be it on a desk, hooked up to an HDTV, controlled with a 360 controller, or stuffed inside of an arcade cabinet.

I hate this retarded logic. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BUY A 600 DOLLAR CARD, EVER. FUCKING EVER!

Exactly. I'll go so far to say that anybody who does so is either an idiot or sweats money.

The ABSOLUTE LATEST is always going to be really fucking expensive.

The almost ABSOLUTE LATEST is always going to be much more affordable.

I recently looked at what it would cost me to get an average machine, capable of running games like Oblivion, GRAW, etc and it's about $1200 (not including a new monitor.)

That sounds really, really high to me. Could you break it down?

Edit: Unless you're talking about something on the same lines as the 360, I mean. Assuming you don't want to run the games at max detail or anything, I'm amazed that you'd need to spend so much.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

Even that 200 dollars every 15-18 months is offset by the fact that many, many PC games provide you with 1000's of gaming hours per title. Console gaming cannot match that type of output. It would take you 5 or 6 console games to match the type of gameplay you can get out of BF2, Civ 4, WOW etc etc. Some of the games you could play every night for years before tiring from them.

Then you factor in the free games (from free MMORPGS to free flash games), the free multiplayer aspect and the ability to play player made mods/maps. It's the best value in gaming, bar none.

This man is right. Individual PC games can last you for ages. Thats the allure of PC gaming. I doubt very many people play a single console games for hours a day for months or even years

You mean like Halo 2, Socom, Forza, Tekken, Smash Bros Melee, Phantasy Star Online n Shit?

Compare the amount of people that play...say Counter Strike or BF2(as much as I hate it) to any of those games and you'll see the difference between PC games and console games. Halo 2 died down in popularity pretty soon after its release, but many popular PC online games go strong for years. Right now I have one PC game installed on my hard drive, Call of Duty 2. And its all I play.

 

[maxmars]

Funny how Moore, of all people, is praising PC gaming.

Here's a hint, dude: your own fucking company BURIED it with the release of Xbox.

In all honesty he probably had to say that because of his position in his company.

 

[maxmars]

This man is right. Individual PC games can last you for ages. Thats the allure of PC gaming. I doubt very many people play a single console games for hours a day for months or even years

But then again, after a couple of major OS upgrades, your computer is not able to run anymore old games, at least not without recurring to black magic.

That bugs me to no end, I have a ton of PC games that I just don't care to install anymore as I'd spend more time tweaking the machine to run them than to play them.

 

[Shard]

The thing I like best about PC gaming is how, well, organic it feels in comparison to console games. On the other hand, the thing I hate most about PC gaming, indeed the reason why I prefer consoles to PC games isn't the expense of it all, it is that PC gaming is so god damned tempermental.

 

[pcostabel]

The market for PC gaming has been shrinking for years. The only sector growing is online games, and with all next gen consoles being online ready, it's only a matter of time before that sector gets cannibalized too.

PORT WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, January 17, 2006 – According to leading marketing information provider, The NPD Group, annual 2005 U.S. retail sales of PC game software saw sales figures reach $953 million, a 14 percent decrease compared to the $1.1 billion generated in 2004.

PC game software unit sales were down 19 percent for the year, totaling 38 million units vs. 47 million units sold in 2004.

 

[Deg]

Moore again proves how he is the most valuable exec in the industry. MS should promote him.

Borys, I love PC gaming, baby. I really do. However, it's not cheap. I recently looked at what it would cost me to get an average machine, capable of running games like Oblivion, GRAW, etc and it's about $1200 (not including a new monitor.)

Running games and running them at max is the exact same thing. Preach it!

The market for PC gaming has been shrinking for years. The only sector growing is online games, and with all next gen consoles being online ready, it's only a matter of time before that sector gets cannibalized too.

So true. People who say a transition to online gaming is happening are liars. Steam, WOW and BF2 were all flops. The real winner is xbox with more online gamers than all pc games together.

 

[Furoba]

Mac OSX FTW!

 

[commissar]

Intel Mac OSX FTW!

Fixed

But then again, after a couple of major OS upgrades, your computer is not able to run anymore old games, at least not without recurring to black magic.

Considering there's a gap of quite a few years between OS upgrades (when Vista releases it'll be about 5 years since XP released) it's not that big a deal. Anyway, what do you do with your old OS install CDs? Partitioning isn't that hard you know <_<

 

[Teknopathetic]

"PORT WASHINGTON, NEW YORK, January 17, 2006 – According to leading marketing information provider, The NPD Group, annual 2005 U.S. retail sales of PC game software saw sales figures reach $953 million, a 14 percent decrease compared to the $1.1 billion generated in 2004.

PC game software unit sales were down 19 percent for the year, totaling 38 million units vs. 47 million units sold in 2004."


This has been quoted several times and every time it's debunked because it doesn't include online digital distrobution sales.

 

[Tain]

I doubt very many people play a single console games for hours a day for months or even years

Eh, I wouldn't say that. Arcade (and, thus, console) competitive games and PC competitive games seem to have similar lasting values.

With single-player stuff, though, I think I'll agree with you.

 

[Chairman Yang]

People who can afford all of the consoles and regularly buy console games, but completely stay away from PC gaming, are not interested in playing the best games available.

There, I said it.

 

[MrSardonic]

If Moore said it...it's wrong

 

[Last Hope]

The number one issue is cost.

And that isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

Peoople try to make it sound like you can play a new game with older hardware if you turn down the graphics. Maybe but you still get a slide show. Console lifes last a lot longer than acceptable video card lives.

 

[big_z]

Stupid Microsoft i want motocross madness 3!

The number one issue is cost. Peoople try to make it sound like you can play a new game with older hardware if you turn down the graphics. Maybe but you still get a slide show. Console lifes last a lot longer than acceptable video card lives.

Yeah it would be nice if new videocards came out every 2-3 years instead of every 6 months and they limited the number of versions of each card. Make one for 3d apps, one for gamers and one for the average joe or business pcs. Maybe developers will be able to take advantage of them this way too.

 

[bee]

the fact that new graphics cards come out every 6 months doesnt mean u have to buy 1 every 6 months , every graphics card ive ever bought has lasted me 2 years before i felt the need to upgrade , and i never buy the top of the range cards £200 is the max i've ever spent on one.

 

[Draft]

What really needs to happen is for Nvidia or ATi to sit down with Intel and figure out a way to get their cheapo gfx cards embedded into intel brand mobos. Make GPUs as ubiquitous as NICs or sound cards. Hopefully, MS will make that happen with their emphasis on Vista's visual tricks.