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[Eric-GCA]

SHANGHAI, China - Chanting "Japanese pigs get out," protesters here threw stones and broke windows at Japanese restaurants and Japan's consulate as thousands of people defied government warnings and staged demonstrations Saturday against Tokyo's bid for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat.

Protests were reported in two other cities. But Beijing remained calm as police stood guard at Tiananmen Square to block a planned demonstration in the heart of the capital, a day ahead of a visit by Japan's foreign minister. Meanwhile, paramilitary police surrounded the Japanese Embassy, where protesters smashed windows last weekend.

The demonstrations — taking place for the third weekend in a row — erupted despite government demands for calm, apparently stemming from fears the unrest might spin out of control and damage ties with Tokyo, which have already plunged to their lowest point in decades.

In Shanghai, as many as 20,000 protesters gathered around the Japanese consulate. Police in riot helmets kept them away from the building but let protesters throw eggs and rocks. A group of young men broke the windows of a Nissan sedan and flipped it onto its roof.

In a nearby street, protesters broke windows at about 10 Japanese-style noodle shops and bars, many of which are Chinese-owned.

The violence followed a march from City Hall to the consulate by about 5,000 people. They carried banners written in English that said "Say No to Japan in the Security Council" and chanted "Japanese pigs get out!"

A sign outside the consulate said "Be Vicious Toward Japanese Devils."

Tensions between Tokyo and Beijing have been fueled by disagreement over the Security Council, gas resources in disputed seas and new Japanese textbooks that critics say minimize Japan's wartime offenses.

About 2,000 people marched through Hangzhou, southwest of Shanghai, shouting slogans condemning Japanese militarism, the official Xinhua News Agency reported. The rally was watched by 10,000 people, it said. Hong Kong television said a few hundred people held a rally in Tianjin, east of Beijing.

In Beijing, about 400 police stood guard in Tiananmen Square, stopping passers-by apparently at random to question them. About 200 paramilitary police with riot shields guarded the Japanese Embassy.

Police also blocked a protest in the southern city of Guangzhou, shooing away people who tried to gather at a stadium.

Japan's foreign minister was to fly to Beijing Sunday for talks aimed at defusing the tensions. Japan warned its citizens in China about possible danger in advance of the protests.

Some suggested Beijing permitted the protests last weekend to support a campaign to block Tokyo's Security Council bid.

Beijing is alarmed at a proposal to give a permanent Security Council seat to Japan, which it regards as a regional rival. Such status carries veto power over U.N. actions and is now held by only five governments — China, the United States, Britain, France and Russia.

"I think that permitting the demonstrations provides leverage by creating a very public symbol of the depth of anger among the Chinese people toward Japan," said Murray Scot Tanner, a China specialist at the Rand Corp. in Washington.

Premier Wen Jiabao cited the protests Wednesday when he said during a visit to India that Tokyo wasn't ready for a Security Council seat until it faced up to its history of aggression.

But other Chinese officials tried to distance the government from the protesters. A Cabinet official quoted Friday by the official Xinhua News Agency denied that it supported "extremist actions."

Beijing is eager to preserve important economic relations with Japan, which has some $280 million invested in the Chinese mainland.

On Friday, police in Beijing warned that protesters could face legal action. Police appealed to the public to trust the Communist Party to deal with Japan and not to threaten "social stability."

In Shanghai, police watched the protesters but didn't stop them, though state newspapers said no one had received permission to hold a protest. At one point, police posted a sign saying "March route this way."

The march in Shanghai was the first in China's commercial capital in the recent wave of anti-Japanese protests.

In Hangzhou, southwest of Shanghai, about 3,000 people gathered outside a stadium carrying banners urging a boycott of Japanese goods, according to Hong Kong Cable TV. It said police watched but didn't interfere.

"The Chinese people are angry," said one marcher, Michael Teng, a graduate student at Donghua University. "We will play along with Japan and smile nicely at them, but they have to know they have a large, angry neighbor."

Weird stuff going down.

 

[Jeffahn]

The only way I see this dispute being settled is all-girl naked oil wrestling.

...

 

[Socreges]

The Chinese government allowed thousands of malcontents to mobilize for a pretty heated cause. They're not just going to disperse on a shake of the finger.

 

[Pochacco]

That's pretty bad.
Those Chinese people need to calm the f*ck down.

 

[RiZ III]

I guess if I was Chinese, I might be kind of pissed at Japan too, but rioting is always stupid.

 

[FightyF]

Chanting "Japanese pigs get out," protesters here threw stones and broke windows at Japanese restaurants and Japan's consulate as thousands of people defied government warnings and staged demonstrations Saturday against Tokyo's bid for a permanent U.N. Security Council seat.

Cristal-nakht

 

[mrkgoo]

The Chinese government allowed thousands of malcontents to mobilize for a pretty heated cause. They're not just going to disperse on a shake of the finger.

Considering how the government normally controls these kinds of actions vigourously, there is an implication that the government actually condones parts of these actions, or atleast agrees witht he sentiments. It would seem.

 

[Socreges]

Considering how the government normally controls these kinds of actions vigourously, there is an implication that the government actually condones parts of these actions, or atleast agrees witht he sentiments. It would seem.

There's no question. They wanted this to happen..... but now it's getting too dangerous.

 

[belgurdo]

JOHN TITOR

China blows up Japan

Bush retaliates

World War III

American citizens protest being thrust into another war

Civil War II

Earth become a barren desert where crazy mutants will lay siege to mega-cities ruled by cop-judges

 

[AstroLad]

JOHN TITOR

China blows up Japan

Bush retaliates

World War III

American citizens protest being thrust into another war

Civil War II

Earth become a barren desert where crazy mutants will lay siege to mega-cities ruled by cop-judges

 

[Ronin]

More like...

He is the law.

 

[Koshiro]

Wow, what the hell is going on in China? Sure it's an insult, but it's only one damn textbook. Complain to the authorities and have it fixed, don't go out smashing the shit out of your own country. I swear a large proportion of people like this are just looking for an excuse to create an interesting situation for their average lives.

 

[Jacobi]

At last there are finally allowed demonstrations in China

 

[Shinobi]

So long as it isn't against the Chinese government (and more importantly furthers their own agenda), they've got no problem with them.

 

[Santo]

I guess if I was Chinese, I might be kind of pissed at Japan too, but rioting is always stupid.

For something that happened 60 years ago? Get the fuck over it, if every country held a grudge this long we'd be non-existent.

 

[goodcow]

For something that happened 60 years ago? Get the fuck over it, if every country held a grudge this long we'd be non-existent.

It's sparked by the fact that the new Japanese textbooks are trying to pretend like the events never even occured.

 

[Willco]

Don't German textbooks gloss over Holocaust, though? I don't think anyone cares.

 

[goodcow]

Don't German textbooks gloss over Holocaust, though? I don't think anyone cares.

But do they deny that the event actually occured?

 

[Jonnyram]

It's sparked by the fact that the new Japanese textbooks are trying to pretend like the events never even occured.

So did the old ones. This happens every year.

 

[Willco]

But do they deny that the event actually occured?

I don't think there's a Japanese textbook that says, "THIS NEVER HAPPENED IT IS ALL MAKE BELIEVE." I believe it stems with the textbooks ignoring the events, much in the same way German textbooks do from what I've heard.

 

[norinrad21]

China really doesnt want to see Japanese nationlism on the rise, they better controle their people.

 

[Jacobi]

Don't German textbooks gloss over Holocaust, though? I don't think anyone cares.

Just - No. OK ? I got even really ashamed over the Holocaust-blame though I didn't even have to do something with it (just like my parents+grandparents).

China really doesnt want to see Japanese nationlism on the rise, they better controle their people.

They want it. The police would have the power to prevent things like that happen.

 

[Willco]

Just - No. OK ? I got even really ashamed over the Holocaust-blame though I didn't even have to do something with it (just like my parents+grandparents).

Could I get that back in English, please? So your textbooks do go into detail about the Holocaust? That's why I wasn't acting definitive on that subject, just passing along what I've heard. If we have a German in our midst that'd like to shine some light on that, that'd be nice.

Because I heard in school from our Social Studies teacher that German kids really don't learn about the Holocaust. I didn't know quite what to think about it at the time.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

For something that happened 60 years ago? Get the fuck over it, if every country held a grudge this long we'd be non-existent.

Err... That's pretty damned recent. You still have people preaching about how subservient blacks should be to whites and slavery ended hundreds of years ago.

When a country invades yours and kills lots of people, and never give a second thought to your country, or even extending an olive branch, feelings are going to remain sour.

 

[Bizarro Sun Yat-sen]

The right-wing textbook in question apparently does go out of its way to imply that the Nanjing massacre and other atrocities may have been exaggerated or fabricated:

In addition, the textbook in a subtle way denies the Nanjing Massacre. Referring to “the Nanjing Incident” of 1937 (pp. 270), it states that when the Japanese force occupied Nanjing “there were many casualties among the civilians [inflicted] by the Japanese force.” The reader is then referred to page 295 in the section on the International Military Tribunal for the Far East, which is devoted to questioning the legitimacy of the tribunal and its findings, including those on the Nanjing Massacre (see below).

[...]In the section on the International Military Tribunal for the Far East (pp. 294-295), the text questions at length the legitimacy of the tribunal. The text points out that the treaties Japan entered into did not include provisions for trying leaders of nations that violated them; that there was no prior history of trying leaders of nations for crimes against peace; that the judges were all from victor nations; and that the prosecution’s evidence was readily admitted, whereas defense requests to gather evidence were often dismissed. The text also introduces Judge Pal as the “only specialist of international law at the Tokyo tribunal” (p. 294), and discusses his across-the-board dissent and GHQ’s refusal to make public his opinion.

Much of this may be technically factual. But emphasis is all. The text devotes twice the space to discrediting the tribunal that it allocates to explaining (the former consists of twelve lines in small type; the latter six lines in large type). The only positive assessment of the tribunal is given in a single line, which reads: “[T]here are also some who affirm [the trial] as setting forth a new development of international law towards world peace” (p. 295).

The text refers to the fact that the tribunal recognized the massacre of numerous Chinese civilians in “the Nanjing Incident” of 1937, only to call into question the massacre, stating: “To be sure, regarding the reality of the incident, points of doubt have been raised in terms of the data, and various views exist, so the controversy still continues today” (p. 295). The text then proceeds to discuss GHQ’s “propaganda” through the mass media to “foster a sense of guilt among the Japanese about the war the nation launched” (p. 295). While it is true that there have been criticisms of the tribunal even outside Japan, it is erroneous to create the impression that the trial, along with the Occupation policies, brainwashed Japanese, and, therefore, that the truth of the war was otherwise (i.e., the Asia-Pacific War was just and the Nanjing Massacre did not occur).

This text was only adopted by something like 0.1% of Japanese schools, though.

 

[Jacobi]

Could I get that back in English, please? So your textbooks do go into detail about the Holocaust? That's why I wasn't acting definitive on that subject, just passing along what I've heard. If we have a German in our midst that'd like to shine some light on that, that'd be nice.

Because I heard in school from our Social Studies teacher that German kids really don't learn about the Holocaust. I didn't know quite what to think about it at the time.

Yeah they go much into detail, without offering false information. This topic is being teached very often and long at least in higher schools. There are many information movies about the holocaust. I think people in Germany know more about the holocaust than people in every other country. Don't know where your Social Studies teacher got his information from. A year ago, a Korean posted into a forum "I like it better how you Germans deal with that topic, because the Japanese don't deal well with it. The Japanese don't even want to build a memorial for the Korean victims in WW2.".

 

[GG-Duo]

These actions are also fueled by the recent Japanese activities in the Ocean between the two countries.

So it was sort of like this.. textbook -> riot -> ocean thing -> more riots.

Thank you.

 

[NetMapel]

Yeah, I think the Japanese government had just accepted a proposal by a Japanese oil company to build an oil extractor or something in this disputed ocean territory. China thinks that area of the ocean is theirs, and Japan thinks otherwise.

Textbook --> riot --> Japan's bid for UN security council --> more riot --> Territory dispute --> more more riot

Things aren't going well between China and Japan lately @_@

 

[Jacobi]

Here's something to inform you about the Nanjing Massacre
But be warned, those pictures and the text show extreme violence.
http://www.centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/nmintro.htm#njm_index
Don't want to say that protest was justified.
"Some suggested Beijing permitted the protests last weekend to support a campaign to block Tokyo's Security Council bid. "
I think so too. Maybe the government even sent out people to make the protest more violent.

 

[Miburou]

Nothing wrong with peaceful demonstrations, but attacking civilians is just stupid. And you'd think the Chinese people would be pretty used to textbooks glossing over massacres what with their own textbooks.

 

[McPhineas]

"We must keep the memory of the worst crime in human history alive for those who were born later." -- German President Horst Koehler, earlier this year at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Meanwhile, to appease politically conservative Japanese nationalists, Koizumi visits Shinto shrines dedicated to savage war criminals and textbooks like these get published with government approval.

Germans are if anything too focused on their own past national transgressions. I'm sure all of us here have heard of games being censored there for things like the inclusion of swastikas. Japan, on the other hand, has utterly failed to come to grips with its own war crimes. With the Dokdo Island tension in South Korea, these massive protests in China combined with the drilling rights dispute, and practically every Asian nation including those two opposing Japan's ascenscion to the U.N. Security Council, expect Japan's relations with its neighbors to only get worse.

 

[Folder]

That's pretty bad.
Those Chinese people need to calm the f*ck down.

And then begin not being one of the most horrible and inhumane dictatorships on the planet.
China is bad news. And with George 'Touchpaper' Bush running the rest of the world, this is not a great time to be a member of the human race.

 

[norinrad21]

"We must keep the memory of the worst crime in human history alive for those who were born later." -- German President Horst Koehler, earlier this year at the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Meanwhile, to appease politically conservative Japanese nationalists, Koizumi visits Shinto shrines dedicated to savage war criminals and textbooks like these get published with government approval.

Germans are if anything too focused on their own past national transgressions. I'm sure all of us here have heard of games being censored there for things like the inclusion of swastikas. Japan, on the other hand, has utterly failed to come to grips with its own war crimes. With the Dokdo Island tension in South Korea, these massive protests in China combined with the drilling rights dispute, and practically every Asian nation including those two opposing Japan's ascenscion to the U.N. Security Council, expect Japan's relations with its neighbors to only get worse.

Yup China is the victim here, Japanese youth today should pay for what their emperor and a bunch of people did 60 years ago......sigh

 

[McPhineas]

Yeah, that's precisely what I said!

 

[GG-Duo]

Yup China is the victim here, Japanese youth today should pay for what their emperor and a bunch of people did 60 years ago......sigh

Way to miss the point..

 

[Tabris]

Japan needs to ask forgiveness for it's raping of China. America needs to ask forgiveness for the A-Bombs being dropped on Japan. China needs to ask forgiveness for it's human rights crimes.

It's not going to happen.

 

[cvxfreak]

The fun just never ends.

To Japan GAFers, has anything happened within Japan itself? Have any Chinese sabotaged Japanese property or vice versa?

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

Japan needs to ask forgiveness for it's raping of China. America needs to ask forgiveness for the A-Bombs being dropped on Japan. China needs to ask forgiveness for it's human rights crimes.

It's not going to happen.

America had a Japanese monument made in honor of those who fought in the war and nursed Japan into being very strong.

And that 'human rights crimes' is a touchy subject.

Still, they're both radically different situations from Japan's ignoring the fact that they've invaded many of their neighbors' territories multiple times in the past. They're an agressor historically. They were never liked. Now in 2005 they're supposed to be magically united to appease Tabris, right?

Does Korea still have that ban on Japanese imports?

 

[McPhineas]

Does Korea still have that ban on Japanese imports?

No, that's been lifted now. It's a fairly recent thing, though.

I could honestly envision it being reinstated, with all of the negative consequences that would have for both economies, if things get much worse.

I was in Korea last month, and it was striking how united everyone I talked to was in their views of Japan's recent behavior, especially when it came to Dokdo Island. President Roh's popularity has gotten a huge boost because of the hard line he's taken, and Koreans both young and old are very upset with Japan.

Until Japanese leaders have any genuine interest in atoning for the past and seeking forgiveness from the countries whose people were tortured, raped and murdered, every minor dispute with countries like Korea and China is going to escalate into cause for yet more resentment and anger.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

A next0gen game with that kinda of premise would be awesome.

 

[Draff]

Until Japanese leaders have any genuine interest in atoning for the past and seeking forgiveness

If you want to be technical, Mao actually forgave Japan a long time ago. Hu Jintao has only recently been taking a more nationalistic approach. And the Japanese PM and emperor have apologized on more than one occassion.

I do agree that going to the Yasukuni shrine is not the best thing to do but it's nost a shrine for war criminals, it just so happens that a few bodies of war criminals are there. Going there =/= glorifying past deeds.

This textbook thing is just stupid and I really don't know why they're taking a step backwards.

As for this situation, the Chinese should 'protest', and of course, they have that right, but rioting isn't really the answer, and fostering hatred isn't such a great thing to do.

 

[DCharlie]

"To Japan GAFers, has anything happened within Japan itself? Have any Chinese sabotaged Japanese property or vice versa?"

Not as such, unless you include Playonline in that equation!

oh, and me and my other half launched a savage attack on the food stuffs in our favourite chinese restaurant on friday night. There was hardly any food left....

 

[Jacobi]

China needs to ask forgiveness for it's human rights crimes.

China is still violating human rights.

 

[Ninjas4Less]

who isnt these days?

 

[God's Hand]

China is probably one of the worst countries on the planet. The people rioting are the simplest form of scum you can find. And what a really dumb reason to riot. Get over it, really.

 

[norinrad21]

who isnt these days?

Netherlands, Norway, Sweden and most of Western Europe

 

[McPhineas]

China is probably one of the worst countries on the planet. The people rioting are the simplest form of scum you can find. And what a really dumb reason to riot. Get over it, really.

I agree! Rioting because you're angry about something is the dumbest reason EVER. Those Chinese are the worst.

 

[GG-Duo]

he just phrased it funny, that's all.

I think we can all agree that rioting and the level of violence is fucking dumb.
However, it was a completely valid reason to stage a protest......

 

[Jonnyram]

There was a documentary on TV about this last night.
Yesterday, a bunch of Chinese rioters attacked a Chinese woman just because she was driving a Japanese car. They totally destroyed the car, writing black Xs all over it, and throwing eggs at it. But the ironic thing is that the "leaders" of these riots all sit at home with their huge Japanese TVs, and listen to Smap all day. It's a fucking joke.

Honestly, what Japan is doing may not be 100% correct, but the barbaric scenes in China make me weep for humanity.

 

[909er]

No, that's been lifted now. It's a fairly recent thing, though.

I could honestly envision it being reinstated, with all of the negative consequences that would have for both economies, if things get much worse.

I was in Korea last month, and it was striking how united everyone I talked to was in their views of Japan's recent behavior, especially when it came to Dokdo Island. President Roh's popularity has gotten a huge boost because of the hard line he's taken, and Koreans both young and old are very upset with Japan.

Until Japanese leaders have any genuine interest in atoning for the past and seeking forgiveness from the countries whose people were tortured, raped and murdered, every minor dispute with countries like Korea and China is going to escalate into cause for yet more resentment and anger.

The Dokdo thing annoys me. It isn't theirs. It's a bunch of rocks that has been used as a midway point in that part of Asia. It doesn't "historically" belong to Korea or Japan, and as such Japan was within it's rights to claim it as theirs.