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[Phoenix]

But that doesn't happen every day, whereas every single day, hundreds of thousands of diesel 18 wheeler trucks that get 6-7mpg per load, plus countless low mileage trucks and vans used by businesses, millions of cars and trucks driven by civilians, thousands of civil and commercial aircraft flights, lawn mowers, and construction equipment are used pretty much continuously throughout the daylight hours. I can't imagine there's even a close comparison. It'd be interesting to see a comparison!

We right now while 'non-major combat operations' are taking place, we've got a lot of gas guzzlers moving around in Iraq and Afghanistan so it really depends on how many of the vehicles are moving every day.

 

[Squirrel Killer]

Peak oil isn't necessarily the point where we literally run out of oil, but the point where the energy needed to extract the oil supercedes the energy benefit of the oil.

It's a little more complicated than that. At the point you mention, energy to extract > energy extracted, an individual well is abandoned. Peak oil comes well before then. Even at that point, the well hasn't "literally run out of oil", it's just not worth it to get what little remains out.

 

[Triumph]

Oil is NOT a fundamental need of a modern society, it is a want based on the cheaply available internal combustion engine. Outside of automobiles, the world can actually do with a lot LESS oil than it consumes today. The point that you don't get is that oil is actually a far smaller percentage of what the world uses for energy than things like coal.

As a percentage of what we need - oil is actually pretty trivial. We need so much of it because our cars are dependent on it. 10-20 year solution? Turn them into predominantly battery powered hybrid vehicles fuel'd by small corn-based biodiesel engines. Why? Because you can draw power out of the nations power grid via alternative sources including increased usage of nuclear and relatively quickly wean yourself off a need for oil.

The sky isn't falling, the world is not coming to an end and their are attainable solutions within reach if we get someone with a clue in charge of the nations energy policy.

Oil is MOST DEFINITELY a fundamental need of modern society. Nothing else will take it's place. Sure, oil doesn't keep the lights on. But what do the machines that strip mine mountains run on? What do the machines that transport the coal run on? What is the fertilizer that allows the world to produce such large crops made out of? What about the machines that transport the crops?

And knowing the political climate of the US as well as you do, I laugh at your notion about "getting someone into office with a clue". No one who wants to run for office has a clue. It's a prerequisite. The corporations that own the politicians can't allow that to get in the way of their profits.

Haha. Owned.


But then how will he use his 15 acres of mountain top land if there is no inevitible Armegeddeon?


Internet: Giving voice to all the kooks of the world. One message at a time.

Hardly. Apparently you just want to cherry pick the arguments out of this thread that you agree with. Go read xabre's posts and add it to mine. Oh, and it's about 100 acres of land, and you won't be welcome.

Oh, and the price of oil just jumped again:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050819/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc_30

 

[Instigator]

The Netherlands are a tiny coastal country, in a temperate zone and are heavily populated, wind turbines should be more effecient in terms of producing power without taking up too much space at the same time. And you can even put them on the sea like Denmark does.

Solar power makes more sense in desert countries where there's already plenty of sun and no one around for miles.

 

[Phoenix]

Oil is MOST DEFINITELY a fundamental need of modern society. Nothing else will take it's place. Sure, oil doesn't keep the lights on. But what do the machines that strip mine mountains run on? What do the machines that transport the coal run on? What is the fertilizer that allows the world to produce such large crops made out of? What about the machines that transport the crops?

All of the vehicles you mention are quite capable of running on other forms of energy. They don't NEED to run on gasoline. NEED implies an inability to run on anything else - that is most certainly not the case. Internal combustion engines are dirt ass cheap, well understood and have been mass produced since 1914. THAT is why we have IC engines and why the industry has a hard time transitioning to anything else.

And knowing the political climate of the US as well as you do, I laugh at your notion about "getting someone into office with a clue". No one who wants to run for office has a clue. It's a prerequisite. The corporations that own the politicians can't allow that to get in the way of their profits.

You assume that moving the entire industry over to an entirely new type of vehicle wouldn't be profitable. As the country starts to have alternative forms they can maintain their various monopolies by having the government heavily tax gasoline and older engines to force consumers to buy new vehicles.