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Morning Joe (11/11): Michael Moore, Anand Giridharadas, Eddie Glaude explain Trump

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Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
(update: now with bonus material)

One of the best discussions yet if you want to understand exactly how Trump was able to win and Clinton lost. They focus on Michigan, where Moore lives, and how no one really understands the working class voters in middle America. They touch on class vs race, information bubbles, how we move forward, and what we can do at Thanksgiving dinner to foster positive discussion.

Watch the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkT1Tdh2qB4

Some highlights -

(3:27) Moore highlights a media discussion he saw regarding Trump's expenditures on baseball caps to point out how much of a bubble they were in.

(6:00) Moore explains Michigan and Wisconsin.

(9:25) It's not just white people.

(11:26) 90,000 Michiganders voted for every office and every ballot proposal. Except for President.

(19:31) Talk of bubbles on both the media and middle America

(20:53) Thoughts on why the black vote didn't turn out in Flint

(22:49) Eddie brings up the deep racial divide, Joe and Moore respond with data about how the same people who voted in Barack Obama twice, just voted in Trump, and then analyze.

(27:30) Bernie Sanders the revolution, and Trump is not a Republican. He's in the Donald Trump Party.

(31:23) Bernie and Trump's crossover support that splits families, and how that relates to racism.

(36:06) Analysis of Bernie and Trump's problems with race.

(41:46) Joe goes through the last 12 years of elections quickly to show the pattern of how no one learns a damn thing.


EDIT: more bonus watching material

Boney said:
Holy fucking shit at this Racheal Maddow tweet. Myopic doesn't even come close to describe it

https://youtu.be/-xK5NaH0oy4
Click to expand...


legacyzero said:
If you think sexism is exclusively to blame, you are one of the reasons why she lost. I would argue that sexism has a factor, but I just think you're wrong if you think it's the only reason

Cenk Uygur breaks it down, and nails it
https://youtu.be/eNZmXhxuThU

Kyle Kulinski breaks it down and nails it
https://youtu.be/Qe2_uKyfi7E

But y'all chose to mock the non establishment media, and they were right all along. I'll say it again- if America was ready for a two term Black President, they're ready for a white Woman. It's not her gender. It's her.
Click to expand...

Vigilant Walrus said:
Moore and Don Lemon discuss this right here.
Click to expand...
 
B

brochiller

Member
I watched it earlier and it was a really great discussion. It was the type of discussion we haven't really heard about the election yet it was pretty refreshing. There are lots of lessons that we can learn from what happened and I hope Michael Moore is right when he says that we can come out of this with a different Democratic Party.
 
D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
It's so easy now to for Bernie supporters to say they were right. There is enough blame to go around for everyone, especially if you didn't vote or voted for a third party.

Of course every Bernie supporters are going to say voting for a 3rd party wasn't the issue, because I'm sure plenty of them voted one.

We can all play the same stupid game

If Bernie hadn't taken so long to concede
built hostility within the party
hand Trump all his anti-hillary Talking points,
Hillary wins!

See?

BTW I'm referring to teh guy talking about the rachel maddow tweet, Michael moore was 100 percent correct.
 
L

LCGeek

formerly sane
Vigilant Walrus said:
Moore looks so angry. That is the look of someone who takes no pleasure in "I told you so":(
Click to expand...

He's a lot more humble than most of the left that criticize or downplay him. Has his faults but some of his causes since I've seen him in the 90's are lot better than what the DNC has been chasing in the same amount of time.
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Moore is sticking it here.

I'm somewhat distracted by Joe's cohost here. I've never seen the show.
 
S

samn

Member
His point that millions of people who voted Barack Hussein Obama twice now switched to Trump is interesting here, with many arguing that the vote is due to white nationalism and not economic populism.
 
D

Doc Holliday

SPOILER: Columbus finds America
samn said:
His point that millions of people who voted Barack Hussein Obama twice now switched to Trump is interesting here, with many arguing that the vote is due to white nationalism and not economic populism.
Click to expand...

Did they though? I thought Trump had less votes than Romney and Mccain?
 
G

gogosox82

Member
Doc Holliday said:
It's so easy now to for Bernie supporters to say they were right. There is enough blame to go around for everyone, especially if you didn't vote or voted for a third party.

Of course every Bernie supporters are going to say voting for a 3rd party wasn't the issue, because I'm sure plenty of them voted one.

We can all play the same stupid game

If Bernie hadn't taken so long to concede
built hostility within the party
hand Trump all his anti-hillary Talking points,
Hillary wins!

See?

BTW I'm referring to teh guy talking about the rachel maddow tweet, Michael moore was 100 percent correct.
Click to expand...

The hostility has been there for at least 10 years. It didn't just happen with Bernie.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
Michael "a vote for Gore is a vote for Bush" Moore? I'm sure he has lots of similarly intelligent working class poseur insights to share.
 
O

Oblivion

Fetishing muscular manly men in skintight hosery
Curious, did Bernie win the states that Hillary lost? (MI, WI, PA, and FL?)
 
F

Foffy

Banned
Rentahamster said:
Bernie won MI and WI, despite all the polls saying he was going to tank.
Click to expand...

It was probably the same polls that said Clinton got it in the bag.

I think we can say these polls were filth and fucked all of us.

Maybe we really should have banked on Sanders...
 
Vigilant Walrus

Vigilant Walrus

Member
Jesus christ. He says here that 90,000 people in Michigan voted for every office, but refused to vote for Trump/Hillary.


I hadn't thought about that. 90,000 people showed up to vote but wouldn't pick either. Somehow that makes me tremendously sad. Because those people showed up to participate in the process. But the fact that both Hillary and Trump are the two most unliked candidates in History should have been met with more seriousness.
I guess I just assumed most people would pick or the other!
 
S

samn

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
Jesus christ. He says here that 90,000 people in Michigan voted for every office, but refused to vote for Trump/Hillary.


I hadn't thought about that. 90,000 people showed up to vote but wouldn't pick either. Somehow that makes me tremendously sad. Because those people showed up to participate in the process. But the fact that both Hillary and Trump are the two most unliked candidates in History should have been met with more seriousness.
I guess I just assumed most people would pick or the other!
Click to expand...

100,000 votes or so and Hillary would have won the election.

enough to fit in a big stadium.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
I see they're claiming falsely that the same people who voted for Obama voted for Trump.

Yeah, this is about the quality of analysis you'd expect from Morning Joe plus Michael Moore.
 
C

Chumley

Banned
For people's first time watching Morning Joe, the only reason this is a good clip is because of Michael Moore. Joe Scarborough is pretty much the most intolerable host on all of MSNBC and in general a blowhard. Mika might actually be worse as she has no principles whatsoever, one day she's standing up for women and the next she's saying Donald Trump is a good man.
 
N

Nokagi

Unconfirmed Member
Mika Brzezinski really can not stop patting herself on the back for being "right about Trump". I stopped the watching Morning Joe a few months back because it got so annoying and now after watching this clip I see she's still doing it. Like okay Mika. We get it. Micheal Moore is right on point though. You can tell he's fired up. Not seem him like this in awhile.
entremet said:
Everyone makes mistakes.
Click to expand...
Nonsense! Only the absolutely spotless liberal may walk on our clean floors.
 
B

Boney

Banned
That guy that kept insisting on how "middle America" (hope the pundits are careful cause this is going to lbw condescending as fuck) kept insisting that "oh they're not curious! Oh they're not informed! Oh they live in their own bubble!"

Eat a bag of dicks
 
Crayon

Crayon

Member
Chumley said:
For people's first time watching Morning Joe, the only reason this is a good clip is because of Michael Moore. Joe Scarborough is pretty much the most intolerable host on all of MSNBC and in general a blowhard. Mika might actually be worse as she has no principles whatsoever, one day she's standing up for women and the next she's saying Donald Trump is a good man.
Click to expand...

I remember joe from back in the day (scarbourough country). He wasn't the worst of them. That's all I can say.
 
S

STEaMkb

Member
Moore nailed this months ago. When he said "I think Trump is going to win" in July, many in the audience booed him. Watch the video here.

Even better, watch this amazing clip from Trumpland. Trump supporters cut the speech short but a longer quote is provided below.

Yes, on November 8, you Joe Blow, Steve Blow, Bob Blow, Billy Blow, all the Blows get to go and blow up the whole goddamn system because it's your right. Trump's election is going to be the biggest "fuck you" ever recorded in human history and it will feel good
— for a day. Maybe a week. Possibly a month. And then, like the Brits, who wanted to send a message, so they voted to leave Europe, only to find out that if you vote to leave Europe, you actually have to leave Europe. And now they regret it. All the Ohioans, Pennsylvanians, Michiganders, and Wisconsinites of Middle England, right, they all voted to leave and now they regret it. And over 4 million of them signed a petition to have a do-over, they want another election, but it's not going to happen. Because you used the ballot as an anger management tool. And now you're fucked. And the rest of Europe. They're like, "Bye Felicia!" So when the rightfully angry people of Ohio and Michigan and Pennsylvania and Wisconsin find out after a few months in office that President Trump wasn't going to do a damn thing for them, it will be too late to do anything about it.
Click to expand...

http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
 
J

Jawbreaker

Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
Jesus christ. He says here that 90,000 people in Michigan voted for every office, but refused to vote for Trump/Hillary.


I hadn't thought about that. 90,000 people showed up to vote but wouldn't pick either. Somehow that makes me tremendously sad. Because those people showed up to participate in the process. But the fact that both Hillary and Trump are the two most unliked candidates in History should have been met with more seriousness.
I guess I just assumed most people would pick or the other!
Click to expand...

This really stuck out to me, as well. It speaks volumes of how the candidates were perceived this cycle.
 
Y

Your Entertainer

Member
Doc Holliday said:
It's so easy now to for Bernie supporters to say they were right. There is enough blame to go around for everyone, especially if you didn't vote or voted for a third party.

Of course every Bernie supporters are going to say voting for a 3rd party wasn't the issue, because I'm sure plenty of them voted one.

We can all play the same stupid game

If Bernie hadn't taken so long to concede
built hostility within the party
hand Trump all his anti-hillary Talking points,
Hillary wins!

See?

BTW I'm referring to teh guy talking about the rachel maddow tweet, Michael moore was 100 percent correct.
Click to expand...

Bernie built hostility and handed Trump talking points? That's too dumb to even be a "stupid game". It was Hillarys fault for not attracting voters or defending herself properly from bullshit. She's just not liked and that cost her
 
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